Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars II, direction of development

eKsDee

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure GW2 does not have the details we have in ESO which would have an impact on load time.

There's numerous ways to load in assets and map data in games, so you can't really just make a general assumption about how detailed one game's assets and map data is compared to another's, by just looking at how long the former's load screens are compared to the latter's.

Considering GW2 has a far more streamlined patching system that allows live download streaming (only downloading the bare necessities of a patch, enough to get in and play, and downloading the rest as it's encountered while playing), I imagine the GW engine supports fairly robust asset streaming, which can significantly improve load times.

With asset streaming, the game just needs to load in the data that's absolutely necessary (map metadata and common assets that are used literally everywhere), and as you approach new regions, the game can unload old assets and reload new assets, keeping memory usage down. This can even be extended to load in varying LOD versions of assets, so the game could load in the lowest LOD version of an asset during the load screen, and load in the subsequent LOD's as they're encountered.

Sergykid

the only things i liked in GW2 more than in ESO are the jumping puzzles, the zones being more active through the events, and that in pvp you have access to all skills and items so there are no build building excuses. And i could not dedicate to GW2, it's very complicated with all these spells and currencies. ESO may not have a thousand currencies but the spells are increasing every year and it will become overwhelming for a new player to make a build.

WikileaksEU

GW2 is a much better MMO than ESO, but ESO is the better RPG.

Eifleber

kind_hero wrote: »

It's just your opinion that a global auction house is a good thing, because several MMOs have it. To be honest I dislike having to browse many traders and travelling to each, but on the bright side, this is good for a more dynamic and diverse economy. Addons kind of break this concept, now most people know how to price an item using addons, so the only surprises are from people not using the addons.

The thing is that some stuff is very rare and is only sold by 2 or 3 traders in the whole of Tamriel.
I'm not going to waste my time visiting 300 taders every time to find out it's sold (or at all).
Looking for some stuff for hours a week isn't my idea of a fun game.

Imagine a real old world; I would buy Dark Elf stuff at 1 of 3 dark elf carpenters or portions at some potions shop.
They would sell largely the same all the time so you know where to go for what.
If they don't have it - you simply order it.

In any old world there's no hundreds of mini wallmarts that change what they sell every day.
So I would rate the ESO trade system as 3/10 (VERY BAD) and very unrealistic (4/10).
Sure, a global AH is also very unrealistic but at least it's user friendly (9/10).
*

Princess_Ciri

GW2's combat is just bad compared to ESO's.

ESO's combat is what engages me and keeps me playing; no other MMO can compete with it.

bluebird

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Unfortunately you forgot the most important thing - update cycle... you get updates in eso regularly while in gw2 only once in a blue moon...

Are they though? GW2 released new content in January, March and May this year. Two of those came with a new map, the other one with several instanced story maps and strike missions. I'd say that's pretty regular Not that far removed from ESO's '4 releases per year' cycle.

All this content is also free for any active player - you only need to log in during the release bracket and unlock it for free forever. No ESO+ or separate DLC purchases needed.

GW2s expansions are more rare than ESO's 'Chapters' it's true, but Chapters are glorified DLCs that don't even have half the content of other MMOs expansions. GW2s expansions include 4-5 maps, 10 new skills for every class with a whole new dedicated skill line that gives them a new 'mini-class' elite specialisation to play with.

Knightpanther

Rukia541 wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I would actually argue against that.
Having recently gone back to GW2 due to Cyrodiil being unplayable i have found the overland content far more engaging than ESO.
The activity's are amazing and although i have found some lag in POF zones this is mainly due to the huge amount of folks just having fun.
Also whilst a pain in the arse sometimes, GW2 overland content is by a country mile harder than ESO - my 6 year old can play ESO overland its not for big boys at all

Be Safe

Vindold

I've dumped many hours in GW2, it's a nice game, creative in some ways, love it but can't say that I prefer it over ESO or otherewise.

END GAME.

Let's say you've got all necessary gear for your ESO character(which is easy to get, except MA,BRP), for pve and pvp, what will you do?

- Cyrodil. It's laggy and have it's own problems...personally I'm not a fan of Cyro, though I love mass pvp, also many players prefer PVE over PVP, probably even more than 50% of player blase.
- GW2 got WvW and it's fun and less laggy. Also WvW maps are not so huge and it's a good thing, makes roaming a bit more plesant as well. Personally I prefer GW2 WvW over Cyro or IC.

- You can do BG's, but probably you'll be bored soon enough, cause BG's got a few maps and it's not rewarding, so less reasons to do it.
- GW2 BG's is on par with ESO, I think, but GW2 got tournaments and rewards for winning are good, like Legendary weapons.

- Dungeons. Their main purpose is monster sets, that's all, you'll not get anything useful from them. Motifs? Can buy. Set's? Can buy them too. Sure you can do DLC dungeons for achi in order to get desired skin, but once you've done it, got you monster sets etc, do you have reasons to do them again, except for fun?

I think Dungeons should offer something more valuable, we should've real reason to do them again and again, not just for fun or score.
- GW2 got Fractals, difficulty grows with each Fractal level, fractals offers you good income, cosmetics, growing challenge, it's some sort of WoW's Mythic+ dungeons and this is a good idea, I think. For now I don't have much reasons to do Dungeons and without proper rewards it's not fun enough either.
Also I like the idea of soloable dungeons or more solo content, but I think they also should provide good challenge as well as good rewards.

- Questing. Probably what's left for you to do is non DLC\Chapter quests and while ESO's quests are better than any other MMO's I've played(well, SW:TOR is on par if not better), they are nothing like TES quests and that's fine, it's mmo afterall, there should be tons of quests for leveling purpose, though there is some nice quests, sure, but nothing of much interest + we are runing into another ESO problem, immersion breaking of solo experience...it's just aweful to enter a quest zone where you should be alone, let's say assassintaion quest, but instead you see bunch of ppl runing everywhere like mad chickens, crushing and smashing everything, completely ruins it for me, really sad about it...
- GW2 main story maybe weaker than ESO, but at least they don't have anything like this and is much more challenging also GW2 got much more events and meta events and they are a bit more proffitable and challenging.

It really saddens me that after we've completed all new Chapter's quests there is not much left to do and what is left..well, can't say that it's an exciting content.

ART STYLE

Aestics matters to me..everything should be in harmony, art style, vfx, animations and ESO is doing okay..well, almost.
I'm not fond of ESO's VFX (GW2 got much better vfx, even most of WoW vfx is better than ESO), also combat animation could be more pretty, Dual Wielding attacks\running are horrible, don't like sprinting animation either, and animation cancelling makes it look clunky, especially with Staff. Hope to see some toggleable combat animations pack for Crown Store...

But what I dislike even more is flashy mounts. Remember style of Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind? Realistic. Arvak is the only unsual thing, but it fits, can't say the same about mounts, they are just ruining immersion.

GW2 customisation...that's what I love and hate. Customization is almost as good as ESO's, bad thing about it is abundance of flashy\funny stuff, like t-shirts, baseball caps, wings, it looks cheap and breaks immersion.

dcam86b14_ESO

Remember when all those MMOs were supposed to "kill" ESO yet here we are 5 years later. ESO is still around and 1/3 of those other guys have vanished.

Taloros

A lot of insightful posts!

Just one comment for clarification's sake:

Remember when all those MMOs were supposed to "kill" ESO yet here we are 5 years later. ESO is still around and 1/3 of those other guys have vanished.

GW2 was published two years before ESO (2012 to 2014).

dcam86b14_ESO

Taloros wrote: »

A lot of insightful posts!

Just one comment for clarification's sake:

Remember when all those MMOs were supposed to "kill" ESO yet here we are 5 years later. ESO is still around and 1/3 of those other guys have vanished.

GW2 was published two years before ESO (2012 to 2014).

Just to clarify your clarification. I didn't mention GW2 specifically but please continue to defend it.

Nyteshade

I'm not fully sure what the point of all this is, but I'll play, just a bit.

Character customization hands down GW2. If you like looks, costumes, etc, this is your game between the two.

Also GW2 wins in world building. The zones have a HUGE variety. ESO I feel like most zones are variations of the same thing, over and over.

Combat is a mix. I generally perfer ESO's variety, but the implementation isn't as fluid. GW2 I feel like I'm hitting something! Very small edge to ESO here.

PvP. Small matches like BG's, GW2 for sure. Large scale, ESO. GW2 WvW has been mostly dead for a while, and PvD gets really old.
Performance issues give GW2 a slight edge here. Character balance is an issue for both, but I think a bit worse in GW2

AlnilamE

Eifleber wrote: »

additionally ...

Looks
* In ESO "best" gear is almost always comes from boss drops and it looks how you find it. But in almost all cases that looks horrible, especially with the monster set shoulders that are often impossible to tune in with the rest of the set.
If you want to change your look ESO has it outfit system where you have to "unlock" looks with style sheets. There is only one slot for setting up looks though. Next to that there's costumes.
Dyeing your gear in 90% of the cases results in it looking like shiny plastic.

* In GW2 you can simply mix the stats of armour piece 1 with the looks of armour piece 2. You can only mix heavy armour with the looks of another heavy armour piece so there's no robes looking like plate armour or visa versa.
As far as i remember it's easy to get best stats and the game doesn't have 400 different sets.
GW2 also has costumes afair (or is that only in GW?)
Dyeing your gear usually works pretty well.
=

In GW2, changing the looks of your gear costs Transmutation Charges. If you don't use them a lot, you have enough of them, but if you change your looks often, you have to buy more from the cash shop.

Deconstructing
GW2 has deconstruction kits that let you deconstruct stuff on the spot so you can keep your inventory clean.
GW2 wins here hands down.

=

But it puts all your deconstructed mats in your inventory and you have to manually send it to your crafting bag. Same with mats you gather. It's very annoying.

Sergykid

the more they add to games, the more overwhelming it will be for new players to catch up. Why don't they slow down and concentrate on balance/performance patches? One year for optimization, one year for content.

Granicus

I began playing GW about two months after it’s launch in 2005. I played it daily until GW2 came out and then played it daily until a year ago when I primarily switched to ESO (that’s 14 years of playing GW1/2). There are some things I prefer in ESO that keep me playing, so far, despite many, many problems in this game. Though I have considered switching back simply because ZOS cannot or will not fix chronic problems, some of which should be easy to fix.

While I agree with much the OP stated, I do not with all. I’m still playing ESO, for the moment, but in so many ways GW2 is a much better game. Performance, stability, development and very infrequent downtime/maintenance events alone make GW2 the better game. I’ve never seen any game in my decades of gaming that has so many maintenance events, that also generally fix nothing and introduce more problems, as in my year of ESO gameplay. The ESO community is definitely not getting its money’s worth.

kargen27

I tried playing GW2. To me it seemed I was just a rat in a maze and when I got to the end of the maze they said hey we put the cheese back where you started. I played way longer than I should have thinking eventually it will get better. It never did.

Elsonso

Nyteshade wrote: »

Also GW2 wins in world building. The zones have a HUGE variety. ESO I feel like most zones are variations of the same thing, over and over.

I think many games can best ESO in this respect.

Elder Scrolls is rooted in Tamriel. That continent is mostly inhabited, for a couple thousand years, and it is known and very normal. There will be some sort of civilization near everywhere you might be. Geography is Earth-like to a significant degree. The ES devs have some freedom, but they are limited in what they can do. For the most part, ESO zone design is them telling us about a place that we already know about, but have never seen.

To get anything strange, the ES devs have to go to Oblivion, and those realms are not generally a place to stand and hang out.

asuitandtyb14_ESO

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i really enjoyed gw2 and their skill system and animations...I also really like the low skill fun pvp modes they have....eso could really learn a few things.

Unfortunately you forgot the most important thing - update cycle... you get updates in eso regularly while in gw2 only once in a blue moon...

What are you talking about?! GW2 has living story, which adds a few hours of story, new skill lines and a new zone (Greymoor size) every three months. ESO does this once a year. There's no comparison...

PrimusNephilim

then go play gw2. I've played gw2 as well and it doesn't have the diversity like ESO has. Despite the connectivity issues ESO has, ESO is a far more superior game over gw2. I'm not going to spend the time going into a diatribe why but that's just my opinion.

~ Cheers

Eifleber

AlnilamE wrote: »

(Deconstructing
GW2 has deconstruction kits that let you deconstruct stuff on the spot so you can keep your inventory clean.
GW2 wins here hands down.)
But it puts all your deconstructed mats in your inventory and you have to manually send it to your crafting bag. Same with mats you gather. It's very annoying.

I'd say still a lot better than having to keep stuff in in your inventory until you get back in town?

I mean it happens a lot in dungeons that people get full inventories. Unless there's someone with a merchant (5000 crowns in the crown store) ppl just have to destroy useful stuff or port out to unload. That sort of thing can't happen in GW2.

Anyway it's just a minor issue.
❆

Agalloch

ESO should have many random events like GW2 or RIFT.

Also invasions would be awesome. ...Imagine dragons/dremora/werewolfs/vampires/etc who conquer cities and players must liberate them.


ESO should have evolving guilds/clans with perks, guild missions/guild quests.

shaielzafine

I agree with what you said except for monetization. What are you buying in guild wars 2 when you say you purchase consumables with IRL money? I haven't bought anything consumable from there. You can also get the gem items with in game gold directly in the game, it will convert for you automatically. In ESO if you want gold to crowns you risk getting scammed by a player who has enough crowns, and even then you can't get everything gifted. Things like houses.

GW2's DLCs are released every 3 months or so as "Living Story" chapters, which are a part of the expansion. If you have path of fire, you get the current living story episode for free. It comes with a new explorable zone and stuff like new mounts or mastery points on top of the story. The map keeps expanding. The only thing you have to do to unlock the new DLC zone is to log in & have the expansion from like 2 years ago. If you don't log in while it's current you don't get the DLC because you weren't playing. In ESO, you have to pay for DLC or subscribe to ESO+.

ESO's monetization- buy to play, buy expansion every year, buy microtransactions (cosmetics, skill lines or skyshard skill points if you have achievement, etc), buy macrotransactions ($150+ houses that cost more than the deluxe version of the game), buy DLC every 3 months and/or buy the subscription ESO+, and we have crown crate lootboxes as you can see in the giant crown store ads when logging in. There's even special currency and limited time offers on digital items with the crown gems.

GW2's monetization is just buy to play expansion & microtransactions on cosmetics & gambling on mount skins. Free base game (up to max level), no subscription option, option to buy the old dlcs as a bundle, and there's the black lion keys if you want to gamble. But the tokens drop from the black lion chests like crown gems so after a certain point you can exchange items. Or convert it to gold and buy the item you want directly. There's no radiant apex items in the loot table.

IMO for content, ESO has more voiced side quests and story. If you're an elder scrolls fan, ESO wins just because of the IP. But can't even play when the performance is this bad. The crashes and tons of bugs that are now features kills it for me. It's been years, and lots of promises for improvement. They've gone to banning people on Twitch for asking questions about performance now lol. They could just fix it, but after Greymoor launch it just got worse. PvP in both games are similar, but GW2's performance is better. Doing meta trains in GW2 is fun for PVE as well, you can do it over and over again by changing instance & there's no crashes like in ESO when too many people are around.

Both games have similar action combat diff from other MMOs. They have similar maps (you probably haven't unlocked most of the old DLCs as a new player in GW2 unless you bought it). GW2 has a glider and their mounts have different purposes (ex. griffon for flying, rabbit for jumping high, jackal teleport, skimmer gliding over water) so the movement physics in GW2 is better. I wish ESO had underwater combat like GW2 and also flying.

The community managers & GM's in GW2 are stellar, they're amazing. I've seen a couple issues with devs in GW2, but they're not like in ESO where they straight up ignore player feedback (ex. vma weapons) and then not comment on it, just push the patch out and close the thread. I've seen ESO community managers ban their paying subscribers and current players on Twitch for asking questions. GW2 GMs and CMs have always been super respectful and relate positively to players, just like FF14 devs. I prefer FF14 overall compared to both these games but for action combat GW2 has a fairer model and runs so much better. Can't play ESO if it keeps crashing and if when it does work, it runs terribly. Most pvpers I know have quit ESO and just play other games. Some PVE raiders I know have gone over to FF14 like me.

AlnilamE

Eifleber wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

(Deconstructing
GW2 has deconstruction kits that let you deconstruct stuff on the spot so you can keep your inventory clean.
GW2 wins here hands down.)
But it puts all your deconstructed mats in your inventory and you have to manually send it to your crafting bag. Same with mats you gather. It's very annoying.

I'd say still a lot better than having to keep stuff in in your inventory until you get back in town?

I mean it happens a lot in dungeons that people get full inventories. Unless there's someone with a merchant (5000 crowns in the crown store) ppl just have to destroy useful stuff or port out to unload. That sort of thing can't happen in GW2.

Anyway it's just a minor issue.
❆

Or you can bounce mail off guildies (which is very handy in Cyrodiil, where you can't summon a merchant).

It's a minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless. They could just make crafting items go to your crafting storage until it's filled (which, btw, has a default stack of 250, and you have to pay money to increase that limit)

Destai

shaielzafine wrote: »

I agree with what you said except for monetization. What are you buying in guild wars 2 when you say you purchase consumables with IRL money? I haven't bought anything consumable from there. You can also get the gem items with in game gold directly in the game, it will convert for you automatically. In ESO if you want gold to crowns you risk getting scammed by a player who has enough crowns, and even then you can't get everything gifted. Things like houses.

GW2's DLCs are released every 3 months or so as "Living Story" chapters, which are a part of the expansion. If you have path of fire, you get the current living story episode for free. It comes with a new explorable zone and stuff like new mounts or mastery points on top of the story. The map keeps expanding. The only thing you have to do to unlock the new DLC zone is to log in & have the expansion from like 2 years ago. If you don't log in while it's current you don't get the DLC because you weren't playing. In ESO, you have to pay for DLC or subscribe to ESO+.

ESO's monetization- buy to play, buy expansion every year, buy microtransactions (cosmetics, skill lines or skyshard skill points if you have achievement, etc), buy macrotransactions ($150+ houses that cost more than the deluxe version of the game), buy DLC every 3 months and/or buy the subscription ESO+, and we have crown crate lootboxes as you can see in the giant crown store ads when logging in. There's even special currency and limited time offers on digital items with the crown gems.

GW2's monetization is just buy to play expansion & microtransactions on cosmetics & gambling on mount skins. Free base game (up to max level), no subscription option, option to buy the old dlcs as a bundle, and there's the black lion keys if you want to gamble. But the tokens drop from the black lion chests like crown gems so after a certain point you can exchange items. Or convert it to gold and buy the item you want directly. There's no radiant apex items in the loot table.

IMO for content, ESO has more voiced side quests and story. If you're an elder scrolls fan, ESO wins just because of the IP. But can't even play when the performance is this bad. The crashes and tons of bugs that are now features kills it for me. It's been years, and lots of promises for improvement. They've gone to banning people on Twitch for asking questions about performance now lol. They could just fix it, but after Greymoor launch it just got worse. PvP in both games are similar, but GW2's performance is better. Doing meta trains in GW2 is fun for PVE as well, you can do it over and over again by changing instance & there's no crashes like in ESO when too many people are around.

Both games have similar action combat diff from other MMOs. They have similar maps (you probably haven't unlocked most of the old DLCs as a new player in GW2 unless you bought it). GW2 has a glider and their mounts have different purposes (ex. griffon for flying, rabbit for jumping high, jackal teleport, skimmer gliding over water) so the movement physics in GW2 is better. I wish ESO had underwater combat like GW2 and also flying.

The community managers & GM's in GW2 are stellar, they're amazing. I've seen a couple issues with devs in GW2, but they're not like in ESO where they straight up ignore player feedback (ex. vma weapons) and then not comment on it, just push the patch out and close the thread. I've seen ESO community managers ban their paying subscribers and current players on Twitch for asking questions. GW2 GMs and CMs have always been super respectful and relate positively to players, just like FF14 devs. I prefer FF14 overall compared to both these games but for action combat GW2 has a fairer model and runs so much better. Can't play ESO if it keeps crashing and if when it does work, it runs terribly. Most pvpers I know have quit ESO and just play other games. Some PVE raiders I know have gone over to FF14 like me.

I've been letting a lot of people know about the community management problems. I've never seen a more hostile game's community management. That Twitch fiasco could have easily been avoided if they had taken the time to talk about what was going on. But instead, they just edit our posts for bashing and ignore the problems.

Eifleber

Personally I like ESO better than GW2 but I don' t see what's the point in denying what GW2 does better.

I always hope that one day there will be a game that combines the strengths of all the different succesful MMO games into one game. Instead of improving 10 things and mess up 6 things the other game did perfectly right.
*