Stam dk spammables

Larcomar

Hi

Taking my stam dk into no cp Cyrodiil. Using a pretty standard 2h / snb build and getting the hang of dizzying swing. In the morning at least. Thing is, it's almost impossible to get off running with a big group at peak time. Too much lag, too much delay.

What's the best alternative spammable for a 2h stam dk currently? As far as I'm aware I think the options are

1) venemous claw: read some stuff about this working well a while back - first tick landing before next LA - but then some later posts suggested this had been nerfed. Is VC still functional as a spammable, do you get at least one tick in, or has it now been fixed/nerfed?

2) noxious breath: already have this slotted for the aoe, dot and fracture. Wondering if I switch to spamming this, possibly slotting whip in place of dizzying for the three stacks of wep damage. Seems to have a good range - 10m - plus it's a cone which helps with targeting in a slide show. Anyone had any luck with it - and what sort of dps do you get compared to dizzying? And is it worth the extra slot for whip?

3) Reverse strike - instant, some good aoe splash and, below 50%, it does ok damage. Just crap at higher health. Wondering if the bonus dmg below 50% would sort of even out.

4) Stone fist - does ok damage, it's got range. Except err the first cast doesn't. And it's got a clunky cast time too. Honestly it feels like a mess of an ability. But dmg seems ok + it gives minor brutality + stagger.

I wondered if anyone had compared them.

- Which of these would be the best dps - and how might they compare to losing dizzying?

- Are there any other abilities I've missed stam dks can use as insta casts spammables for 2h?

cheers

Larco

catnamedwill

You can use Heroic Slash on S&B, was changed a bit but still works fine.

Danksta

If you're running large groups maybe cleave with master 2h? I suppose that would force you into a gear change as well but might be worth doing.

oXI_Viper_IXo

Venomous claw, Carve/Brawler, or Silver Shards. Don't use whip.

BohnT2

You use dizzy and don't think about using anything else.
All other skills are hot trash.
Poop stomp is probably the worst with silver shards being second.
But both are utterly trash because they have a minimum traveltime.
Poop stomp is just even worse because it also has a casttime and swaps from being AoE to meele and stunning randomly don't use it ever and i mean it.
Never even think about using poop stomp.

Venomous claw isn't a spammable to begin with as the damage is too low and you miss out on the dot ticks.
Same goes for Noxious, if you want an instant spammable go with deep slash, it's not great but better than the others.

Just use dizzy or play stamden/stamnecro that'll make your live much better anyway

Y2J

What about crushing weapon? I dont play much stam though, but it should be comparable to elemental weapon on mag toons.

Onefrkncrzypope

Y2J wrote: »

What about crushing weapon? I dont play much stam though, but it should be comparable to elemental weapon on mag toons.

It's not.

fred4

1, 2, 3 are not spammables. Claw just isn't. Noxious works pretty well as an AOE spammable and to prevent NBs from cloaking away, but is not good enough for single target. Reverse Slice is good AOE for farming XP in Spellscar, but with Noxious also on your bar, I'd recommend Executioner. Either way, it's not a spammable in PvP.

Poop notwithstanding, I currently use Stone Giant. I've actually come to like it. Dizzying -> Ulti -> Executioner is better burst, sure. Due to Dizzying's cast time it will land more or less together with your ulti. Stone Giant, on the other hand, has utility. You can shoot at targets running away and you get the Minor Brutality. In fact you can stomp out of combat to pre-buff the Minor Brutality and get your ranged attacks ready. Instead of Fragmented Shield, I'm using Shuffle.

I don't care to be meta. I care for what plays well and is a little easier to play than landing DS. I no longer feel the need to become the best at this game and play the burst meta at it's finest (Dizzying). For what it's worth, my bar layout is:

Stone Giant
Rally
Executioner
Camou Hunter
Noxious
Leap

Venomous Claw
Resolving Vigor
Shuffle
Volatile Armor
Cauterize
Corrosive Armor or Spell Wall

Let's say, for the sake of the argument, you do something more conventional and use Dizzying. In that case you will want to use Fragmented for the Minor Brutality. Some other skill will have to go. Which one will it be? Shuffle? Cauterize? One of the DOTs? Camou Hunter? Those are all significant losses.

Shuffle means you lose 6 seconds of root / snare immunity from medium armor. Substitute Forward Momentum and you lose a heal. Cauterize also loses you a heal. Lose Venomous Claw, lose pressure. Look at it in combat log. The tooltip isn't great, but it ramps up well. Camou Hunter, the crit, the weapon damage and the Minor Berserk possibility, that's a significant loss as well.

Furthermore don't underestimate how well the 3 heals work together, as they all have different durations. Without the expensive Fragmented Shield, you have some magicka left over to occasionally spam Cauterize. It can be used as a burst heal when Rally is not ready. At the same time your magicka requirements on this build are so low, zero magicka sustain investment is required. Volatile Armor and Cauterize are half the cost of Fragmented Shield. Instead of the tri-pots you might otherwise use, I'm using Physical Resistance, Health and Stamina pots, physical resistance being something a DK has relatively less of.

Incidentally, while Leap is the preferred ulti, I find Stone Giant pairs well with Corrosive Armor, because it's easier to land than Dizzying. Some tanky players suddenly take large amounts of damage from your ranged attacks. Can be nasty in group play.

fred4

BohnT2 wrote: »

Poop stomp is just even worse because it also has a casttime and swaps from being AoE to meele and stunning randomly don't use it ever and i mean it.

I don't really get this. I do get that you don't control the CC. That's a big one. The other stuff? You DOT people up, you're in melee range, then you start spamming. There is a fair chance they're still in melee range for the first cast. If they back off, you hit them from range. If they lose health or get CCd, you leap and execute. DK is not reliant on putting a guaranteed burst together with Shalks or Blastbones. It is more flexible and opportunistic in timing it's burst.

Also, if Stone Giant really has those delays, that should work in it's favor. While ultis also have a delay, that should still move the damage closer to the ulti and you may end up fitting a Stone Giant cast + Leap + Executioner into 2 GCDs.

... or play stamden/stamnecro that'll make your live much better anyway

This shows exactly where you're coming from, but DK doesn't have to be played exactly like those two classes.

BohnT2

fred4 wrote: »

show previous quotes

BohnT2 wrote: »

Poop stomp is just even worse because it also has a casttime and swaps from being AoE to meele and stunning randomly don't use it ever and i mean it.

I don't really get this. I do get that you don't control the CC. That's a big one. The other stuff? You DOT people up, you're in melee range, then you start spamming. There is a fair chance they're still in melee range for the first cast. If they back off, you hit them from range. If they lose health or get CCd, you leap and execute. DK is not reliant on putting a guaranteed burst together with Shalks or Blastbones. It is more flexible and opportunistic in timing it's burst.

Also, if Stone Giant really has those delays, that should work in it's favor. While ultis also have a delay, that should still move the damage closer to the ulti and you may end up fitting a Stone Giant cast + Leap + Executioner into 2 GCDs.

show previous quotes

... or play stamden/stamnecro that'll make your live much better anyway

This shows exactly where you're coming from, but DK doesn't have to be played exactly like those two classes.

Wtf dude?????
How about not spamming completely wrong statements on the forums.
You clearly have never played stamdk in your life.
Poop stomp has a 0.6 seconds casttime, no one with a brain gets hit by that.
Additionally you can't line up the skill because the minimum travel time is 250ms this gives you nothing but detriments.
250ms of your enemy having time to block, dodge, actively heal or have another hot tick in between.
On a class that never fights from range.

Delays have never worked in the favor of a spammable or do you see people using crushing weapons on stamina chars?
No you don't just like you don't see people running around with the *** birds.

I'm not gonna comment on your last statement because that clearly shows that you haven't pvped on either of those classes.

fred4

@BohnT2, you're an angry dude. Don't expect your complete overreaction to be taken seriously. I have clearly stated that my build is probably not meta. To be honest, I am not really in the loop on such things and I rarely duel anyone but friends. I do think there is room for different builds, though. This is not meant to be gospel. This is a game. You're meant to have fun exploring different approaches. Not need to get zealous about it.

That said, I don't get your argument, because Dizzy has a 0.8s cast time. The same logic applies. If you care to articulate what actually makes Dizzy better, such as having a higher tooltip and setting people off balance, please do so.

At the risk of you crapping all over me again, here's me playing my DK. I don't play her often these days and I rarely play BGs, thus it's low MMR. The clip is not indicative on how my build performs at more competitive levels, but then again the OP is asking for an option that plays well in lag. Arguably an AOE / ranged skill has an advantage, there, over a single target melee skill you need to line up more accurately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk8zOgiB1ds

fred4

BohnT2 wrote: »

On a class that never fights from range.

That is such a half-truth. Maybe stamden and stamcro don't, but DK has Leap. I don't play my DK often enough, but now that you say it, I can envision a scenario where a DK might go Stone Giant -> Leap -> Execute from range, much the same way people take advantage of the delay and travel time of Snipe. All we can say for sure is that you don't play DK that way or, perhaps, that you're strictly thinking of duels and not open world scenarios.

Delays have never worked in the favor of a spammable or do you see people using crushing weapons on stamina chars?

I think people don't use that skill due to lacklustre damage. They do, however use Elemental Weapon in PvP, because (a) the guaranteed status effect gives it better damage and (b) they use it to create burst.

HankTwo

I played around with stone fist before greymoor for the very same reason as you, Fred. I didn't have the mag sustain or another free skill slot for fragmented shield, because I played with race against time, cauterize and rally. So stone fist was the only option to get the mountains blessing passive from. The skill is not unusable or useless as Bohn claims, but overall it definitely feels underwhelming compared to dizzying (as so many other stam spammables).

In general I'd say stone fist has the following pros:
- decent damage
- fair cost
- stun utility
- synergy with mountains blessing passive

But the following disadvantages:
- stagger utility is a PvE gimmick with little use in PvP
- initial cast time for no real reason
- duration is at times too short to utilize all 3 rocks
- no synergy with helping hands passive (would be amazing if this would be mirrored and return a small amount of magicka for stam skills)

Being ranged is really a toss up. Biggest disadvantage, imo, is that some classes have skills that protect them from projectiles. Travel time is not a huge deal on a spammable used in melee range. I just tested it again, and in melee it doesn't feel less smooth than say executioner to weave with light attacks + rock throw part of the skill + bash. The cast time on the stomp is very disrupting, though. Furthermore, having a ranged stun can be pretty useful when fighting builds like magsorcs unsing streak morph. But in the end, it simply doesn't fit the stam DK playstyle well, so I would prefer an instant melee spammable as well.

I even made a thread about possible improvements for the skill but nobody cared xP
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/525202/stam-dk-stonefist-proposal

That being said, this patch I will go for rending slashes with master dual wield as spammable + DOT in one skill. A friend of mine already plays this and the damage is definitely there.

emsuperman24

Stone fist is in fact completely useless as a spammable option especially in pvp. Anyone that says any different is not playing competitively.

Sure you can run any skill anywhere and play for fun no one disputes that, but using stone fist is 100% putting you at disadvantage.

It is by far the worst spammable atm.

OG_Kaveman

catnamedwill wrote: »

You can use Heroic Slash on S&B, was changed a bit but still works fine.

power slam is a better spammable by far, for s/b.