Vampire Feeding versus Blade of Woe

Dusk_Coven
Dusk_Coven
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Vampire Feeding is now like the Blade of Woe, but with a gap closer and sometimes a short-ranged kill (with the blood geyser animation). Is that too strong/useful? Too easy to get stealth kills?

Vampire Feeding versus Blade of Woe 15 votes

Yes
13%
Dar'Norokpantherfan69 2 votes
No
86%
Iruil_ESOCronopolySnipes007OmniDoxylenaSOLDIER_1stClassMr_WolfeArgonianwerecroc212ApostateHoboParadisiusOpalbladeSpectral_ForceInyhel 13 votes
Maybe
0%
  • Mr_Wolfe
    Mr_Wolfe
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    No
    Honestly this change was long overdue. It was really annoying trying to blade of woe someone but accidentally feeding instead and ending up with a bounty--especially when doing the Dark Brotherhood dailies.

    Not sure what you mean by "too powerful" though. Both abilities have the same range and only work on npcs that are trivial to kill anyway.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    Mr_Wolfe wrote: »
    Both abilities have the same range and only work on npcs that are trivial to kill anyway.

    No.

    (1) If you have both abilities, you have to actually back out of range far enough that Blade of Woe cannot be used before you get the prompt to use Vampire Feeding.

    (2) By being farther, you can still be hidden from enemies which would otherwise detect you. E.g., if there's someone else near the target who's facing would see you if you get closer. Normally what happens is they aggro you, and that causes your intended target to detect and aggro you too, and you can no longer Blade of Woe your target.
    So overall it makes a sneak kill easier in comparison with the Blade of Woe.

    This is about COMPARISON with the Blade of Woe. Not about whether the valid enemies are weak.
    The Blade of Woe is about successfully being stealthy in exchange for a quick kill. By giving too much range, it reduces that need for stealth and changes the stealth game, which is already pretty easy.

    Just seems like they overpowered another expansion feature without thinking it through.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on May 29, 2020 9:05PM
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    No
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »

    This is about COMPARISON with the Blade of Woe. Not about whether the valid enemies are weak.
    Just seems like they overpowered another expansion feature without thinking it through.

    I honestly think its the same, they both function similarly and its more a matter of a preference. Also I dont understand the sentiment of overpowering expansion features when Vampire rework was a base game update that everyone can use

  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »

    This is about COMPARISON with the Blade of Woe. Not about whether the valid enemies are weak.
    Just seems like they overpowered another expansion feature without thinking it through.

    I honestly think its the same, they both function similarly and its more a matter of a preference. Also I dont understand the sentiment of overpowering expansion features when Vampire rework was a base game update that everyone can use

    Sure everyone can use it, but they may have favoured vampires too much to promote it. Or just forgot the Blade of Woe. And now they've basically given away a better version of a unique DLC feature without a DLC.

    I actually like the mechanic for vampire feeding now (would like it more if they took out the blood geyser effect completely) but they didn't have to make it superior to the Blade of Woe with the range and such.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on May 29, 2020 9:36PM
  • Mr_Wolfe
    Mr_Wolfe
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    No
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Mr_Wolfe wrote: »
    Both abilities have the same range and only work on npcs that are trivial to kill anyway.

    No.

    (1) If you have both abilities, you have to actually back out of range far enough that Blade of Woe cannot be used before you get the prompt to use Vampire Feeding.

    You're almost right. The blade of woe can be used from the same range, (it does a knife throwing animation at long range) but if you have both the blade of woe and vampirism, the feeding prompt takes precedence at range and blade has priority up close.
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    (2) By being farther, you can still be hidden from enemies which would otherwise detect you. E.g., if there's someone else near the target who's facing would see you if you get closer. Normally what happens is they aggro you, and that causes your intended target to detect and aggro you too, and you can no longer Blade of Woe your target.
    So overall it makes a sneak kill easier in comparison with the Blade of Woe.

    This is about COMPARISON with the Blade of Woe. Not about whether the valid enemies are weak.
    The Blade of Woe is about successfully being stealthy in exchange for a quick kill. By giving too much range, it reduces that need for stealth and changes the stealth game, which is already pretty easy.

    Just seems like they overpowered another expansion feature without thinking it through.

    Except the blade of woe can be used from the same distance if you don't have vampirism, and unlike the blade, vampire feeding has a random chance to pull you into melee range with the target--which will agrro nearby enemies.

    So feeding is still worse for ranged stealth kills than the blade of woe, but not the auto-fail that it used to be. Which is good, because the vampire's quick stealth abilities really lends itself to an assassin playstyle. On the plus side, now if you accidentally 'port in and bite a guy in the middle of all his friends, you'll automatically go invisible as you sprint away from the guards.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    Mr_Wolfe wrote: »
    Except the blade of woe can be used from the same distance if you don't have vampirism, and unlike the blade, vampire feeding has a random chance to pull you into melee range with the target--which will agrro nearby enemies.

    I tried it on a character with no vampirism and the range does look about the same. But I also ended up doing a gap-close rush instead of the usual knife throw Blade of Woe. I tested it several times and almost every time it was a gap closer. The one time it was not, I had to inch close until the very maximum range, when the prompt first comes up.

    Some things they could do to distinguish Vampires from the Blade of Woe:
    - guaranteed kill only on sleeping targets; currently the Blade of Woe can't affect sleeping targets at all (?) or very tricky to approach properly
    - not guaranteed kill on hostile targets -- i.e., they fight back and fling you off
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on May 30, 2020 3:09AM
  • Mr_Wolfe
    Mr_Wolfe
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    No
    The blade of woe can be used on sleeping targets, it's just much more difficult because of the way the game handles stealth mechanics. Try approaching slowly from the direction of their head with a lot of detection radius reduction.

    Admittedly it's been a while since I used the blade of woe much, but I have never seen it act as a gap closer. In my experience being even a single character's width away from your target or at a slightly different elevation will trigger the ranged knife throw animation or vampire feeding if you have it. It got to the point where I stopped trying to kill targets while they were on stairs because the promt kept changing to 'feed' as I was pressing it--even if I was right up against the target's back.

    That said, it's possible some of this behavior has changed. I only did some cursory tests on the PTS and haven't gotten around to playing much since Greymore went live because I've been busing clearing bank space to make room for all the new sets and mythic items. :p
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