The Elder Scrolls Online

Pay to win?

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  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    You are paying for the content, not just that single item. That is the difference between pay to win and pay to play games. Pay to play games include additional things outside of one item such as actual content such as a story, new zone, new gear, etc...
  • Steev_z
    Steev_z
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    MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    You are paying for the content, not just that single item. That is the difference between pay to win and pay to play games. Pay to play games include additional things outside of one item such as actual content such as a story, new zone, new gear, etc...

    And that way they all got you in your wallets once again.
  • r3turn2s3nd3r
    r3turn2s3nd3r
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    jircris11 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    By that logic ANY mmo that offers an expansion is p2w.

    Yes

    You guys MAY be playing the wrong genre.
    Imagine how unfulfilling the game would be if EVERY new class, gear item, skill line etc was worse than what the base game offered. All to avoid the (misused) "p2w" label.
    That would be a VERY good way to kill off most incentive to buy DLC/expansions.

    If I buy a game I want to be able to get all content. Or is that a bit too much asked these days XD I guess so...

    It is actually. The days of buying a game and that was it pretty much went out the window back in the cartridge days. Welcome to the 2000's you're going to be hard pressed to find many games that do not incorporate some DLC model to support additional revenues.
  • Dr_Sinister
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    Well I guess WoW is pay to win because entitled little *** whined enough to get the game nerfed into the ground so they can get their special mounts and special gear and can start brand new max level characters. Where's the facepalm emote?
    Dead is dead. Parts is parts. Dead guys is parts - RipperJack
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    jircris11 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    By that logic ANY mmo that offers an expansion is p2w.

    Yes

    You guys MAY be playing the wrong genre.
    Imagine how unfulfilling the game would be if EVERY new class, gear item, skill line etc was worse than what the base game offered. All to avoid the (misused) "p2w" label.
    That would be a VERY good way to kill off most incentive to buy DLC/expansions.

    If I buy a game I want to be able to get all content. Or is that a bit too much asked these days XD I guess so...

    It is actually. The days of buying a game and that was it pretty much went out the window back in the cartridge days. Welcome to the 2000's you're going to be hard pressed to find many games that do not incorporate some DLC model to support additional revenues.

    You really aren't. This is certainly what the AAA publishing industry wants customers to believe, though.

    The number of games that do not engage in this sort of thing still vastly outnumber those who do. They also don't spend millions of dollars on advertising and shoving themselves in everybody's faces. But they are absolutely there.
  • Atherakhia
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    While I could understand the argument with things like the Necromancer and Warden classes the argument that mythic items are p2w is a bit of a stretch. They have an opportunity cost attached to their use and so long as their overall value is in line with things like monster helm sets or trial weapons (that are also behind a paywall mind you), there's really no harm. If these items were truly so much more powerful than the other alternatives I could see your argument. But this ring in particular is not that impressive when you actually consider the math behind it and against what you give up.
  • tmbrinks
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    Then everything is pay to win since you had to buy the game in the first place.

    That argument holds no water.

    Yes i paid to get this game. The point is I don't want to pay twice ;)

    So, you expect to pay $10 to buy the game, and get free, lifetime upgrades, new features, new content, etc...

    That's like expecting to buy a car and getting the new model each year they come out with a new one.
    Curious about daily crafting writ rewards and refinement rates? Spreadsheet showing years of writs and refining data!
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  • Dr_Sinister
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    Then everything is pay to win since you had to buy the game in the first place.

    That argument holds no water.

    Yes i paid to get this game. The point is I don't want to pay twice ;)

    So, you expect to pay $10 to buy the game, and get free, lifetime upgrades, new features, new content, etc...

    That's like expecting to buy a car and getting the new model each year they come out with a new one.

    Entitlement at it's finest, eh? lol
    Dead is dead. Parts is parts. Dead guys is parts - RipperJack
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    scorpius2k1 wrote: »
    Oh come on everyone, It's "Pay To Advance" we have to make sure and get the right play on words to justify pay mechanisms that shouldn't be there in the first place.

    I don't care what anyone says, it's just another form of P2W.

    The game is designed to intentionally annoy a player enough that they would rather not repeat content and just buy it outright to skip it. It's one reason why my forum signature says what it does.

    Just your normal scammy and shady business tactics folks, nothing else here to see:
    Create a problem, sell the solution.


    .

    OK, but what is the problem that was created? I looked up this Malacath Ring of Brutality and you are trading extra damage for no crit. Does it mean the wielder can just look at other players and they die? (That sounds like my normal PvP experience)

    Is there a counter-build?

    Or is it the fact the Impen was incorporated into Battle Spirit?
    The Moot Councillor
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    Since the malacath ring of brutality happened...
    Has No-cp pvp become pay to win with this item?
    In my honest opinion it did....

    Despite the noise on the forums, this time: Yes.
  • Steev_z
    Steev_z
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    Dr_Sinister wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    Then everything is pay to win since you had to buy the game in the first place.

    That argument holds no water.

    Yes i paid to get this game. The point is I don't want to pay twice ;)

    So, you expect to pay $10 to buy the game, and get free, lifetime upgrades, new features, new content, etc...

    That's like expecting to buy a car and getting the new model each year they come out with a new one.

    Entitlement at it's finest, eh? lol

    Huh i didn't get any car :o
  • KappaKid83
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    Since the malacath ring of brutality happened...
    Has No-cp pvp become pay to win with this item?
    In my honest opinion it did....

    These takes are so far out there it is mind numbing. Were Necro's pay to win then because when they released the Bash ultimate was broken as hell and could wipe full keeps? Were warden's pay to win because you had to buy the chapter to get them too? Now, do I think too much stuff is sold in the crown store, yeah, but is any of it pay to win, no. You literally have to unlock that skill line on another character to be able to unlock it on any other character. If skill lines were account wide that conversation would carry zero weight, just like your argument that one piece of gear is pay to win.

    If you are skilled enough you can still build some troll stuff, think 3pc Arch Mage on a Sorc, and still wreck other players if you have a high enough skill ceiling. Please retire your thoughts that this game was or will ever be pay to win, they are not even close to in line with the design of the game.
  • JKorr
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    If you want to play the new content, you pay for it. Or, wait a year, when it will be either dlc or discounted if you don't want to buy the chapter and play immediately.

    Starting all the way back at the beginning of everything, OMG THE INCLUDED WITH THE IMPERIAL EDITION WHITE HORSE IS TOTALLY PAY TO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! was the favorite rant. Nevermind the white imperial horse was just a horse, no bonus/boost anything, had to be fed every day like a regular horse, and ended up with ten less in stats in either stamina, inventory, or speed, because it didn't have the stats arranged like the speed horse, or the inventory horse, or the stamina horse. People just KNEW because it came with the imperial edition it was totally pay to win. Switch out a word here and there, and OMG WARDEN IS TOTALLY PAY TO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Switch out a word here and there, OMG JEWELRY CRAFTING IS TOTALLY PAY TO WIN!!!!!!!!! ONLY PEOPLE WHO BUY SUMMERSET WILL HAVE GOLD JEWELRY!!!!!!!!!!!! Rinse and repeat for the next OMG TOTALLY PAY TO WIN whatever it is that is in the next chapter.

    Now, if I can go to the crown store and buy the Emperor/Ruby Throne for a week, that would be pay to win. I don't go to Cyrodiil, and don't pvp, so if I want to be Emperor I'd have to pay for it. THAT would be pay to win. Or if I could go pick out the best "only from pvp" gear sets, and Perfected golded out weapons without putting in any effort whatsoever, that would be pay to win items.
  • JKorr
    JKorr
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    jircris11 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    By that logic ANY mmo that offers an expansion is p2w.

    Yes

    You guys MAY be playing the wrong genre.
    Imagine how unfulfilling the game would be if EVERY new class, gear item, skill line etc was worse than what the base game offered. All to avoid the (misused) "p2w" label.
    That would be a VERY good way to kill off most incentive to buy DLC/expansions.

    If I buy a game I want to be able to get all content. Or is that a bit too much asked these days XD I guess so...

    I'm going to guess you bought the original game.

    Do you have access to all the content in that original game you paid for? If yes, then you got all the content. I don't think I've ever heard of a "pay one time get all content forevermore free" for a pay to play game. Now, if the game was still sub only, then you might have an argument. But even games with subs charge for expansions.

    If you don't want to pay twice, don't buy another copy of the original game. You'll be fine that way. Want the expansions/chapters, pay when the content is new, or wait and buy it bundled or as dlc from the crown store instead of the game store.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    jircris11 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    By that logic ANY mmo that offers an expansion is p2w.

    Yes

    You guys MAY be playing the wrong genre.
    Imagine how unfulfilling the game would be if EVERY new class, gear item, skill line etc was worse than what the base game offered. All to avoid the (misused) "p2w" label.
    That would be a VERY good way to kill off most incentive to buy DLC/expansions.

    If I buy a game I want to be able to get all content. Or is that a bit too much asked these days XD I guess so...

    It is actually. The days of buying a game and that was it pretty much went out the window back in the cartridge days. Welcome to the 2000's you're going to be hard pressed to find many games that do not incorporate some DLC model to support additional revenues.

    PC games had expansions in the 90's, too.

    edit: and don't remind me of all the tabletop games & wargames that I played from the 1980's and up, that sold expansion after sourcebook after boxed set... etc.

    Yeah, how dare these developers sell more stuff for their games!
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on May 27, 2020 6:51PM
  • LadyNalcarya
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    r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    jircris11 wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    By that logic ANY mmo that offers an expansion is p2w.

    Yes

    You guys MAY be playing the wrong genre.
    Imagine how unfulfilling the game would be if EVERY new class, gear item, skill line etc was worse than what the base game offered. All to avoid the (misused) "p2w" label.
    That would be a VERY good way to kill off most incentive to buy DLC/expansions.

    If I buy a game I want to be able to get all content. Or is that a bit too much asked these days XD I guess so...

    It is actually. The days of buying a game and that was it pretty much went out the window back in the cartridge days. Welcome to the 2000's you're going to be hard pressed to find many games that do not incorporate some DLC model to support additional revenues.

    How are they supposed to continue developing the game with no additional revenues? Even crappy servers still cost money, and then you have a bunch of people making content, tech support etc.
    And what's wrong with dlcs? I mean I'm not a fan of selling horse armor and exp boosts in single-player games, but Warcraft 3: the Frozen Throne or TES 3: Tribunal and Bloodmoon, for example, were pretty awesome.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • DreamsUnderStars
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    lol ESO is not pay to win. You need to go look at Chinese grinder mmos for proper pay to win games.
  • Kadoin
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    DreamsUnderStars wrote: »
    lol ESO is not pay to win. You need to go look at Chinese grinder mmos for proper pay to win games.

    Hey, some of those still have better balance than this game...
  • Tandor
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    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    Don't tell me, you watched the first part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy at the cinema, and then boycotted the screening of the other two films because the cinema wanted to charge you to see them, right?
  • Stx
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    I dont understand this logic. So you choose to pay for the base game only and then expect there to be no new items in any of the 5 years worth of DLC that people either paid for or subscribe for?
  • Banana
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    It's pay to grind
  • DreamsUnderStars
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    Didn't we used to have a "funny" reaction in with the insightful, agree, awesome? Some of these threads lately definitely need to be laughed at.
  • finehair
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    Not really, if you are talking about pvp there is no fixed meta gear. You can get the gear that is considered as the most op by majority and get beaten by someone who is using ashen grip if you have no idea what you are doing. PvP is really different in that manner, good player with "meh" gear will beat 2 bad players with the build they have found online. I know that since I got beaten my crap out a lot when I started first, and after many years some dude with weird sets and playstyle surprise me and beat me and my friends around me :D . In PvP there is always a bigger fish. Everything you have, there is something to counter it.
    Also remember that ring will requires 1 jewel slot, so you will be sacrificing some good set combinations to get %25 damage increase.
    I haven't bought greymoor, so I won't be using it and I bet I'll be able to kill some random dude who stacked all the damage sets to make himself the ultimate glass cannon.
  • Sephyr
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Steev_z wrote: »
    LukosCreyden wrote: »
    Every expansion, somebody says "X" new content is pay to win.
    Also, every expansion, people need to have the concept of pay to win explained to them.

    "Pay to Win" would be if I could by an OP weapon from the crown store. Items earned from taking part in new content does not count.

    Yes but you have to invest irl money to get to that content... No?

    Then everything is pay to win since you had to buy the game in the first place.

    That argument holds no water.

    Yes i paid to get this game. The point is I don't want to pay twice ;)

    So, you expect to pay $10 to buy the game, and get free, lifetime upgrades, new features, new content, etc...

    That's like expecting to buy a car and getting the new model each year they come out with a new one.

    They seriously do. Which is cute.
  • Psiion
    Psiion
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    Greetings all,

    We have closed this thread due to the fact it has derailed into non-constructive arguments and baiting. Baiting is against our forum rules, which can be read in full here.

    Enjoy the Journey!
    -Kage
    Staff Post
This discussion has been closed.