The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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So they finally nerfed Sorcerer
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RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭Think going back to silver bolts and dawnbreaker spam for blocks of vamps again will be a thing.0 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭THis is the second post I have seen you make about how much you don't like the new vamp stuff cause you think it's too strong. There is a very real risk of dying using vampire abilities, not just because of the short range but also because of the health cost, yeah your burst numbers are high but most classes won't keep up on the sustained dps. Warden and Necromancer with their high passive healing probably will be able to sustain it the best, and they were both on the lower end of magicka dps to begin with.
I think you need to take a minute to calm down, this won't be the dramatic world ender you think. Most people will not run vampire. And the ones that do will mostly be burst set ups or aoe set ups. Sorc with out blood for blood is still a super high dps that can stay a safe distance away from melee boss mechanics. You won't need it to stay high up on the dps totem pole.
Not disagreeing with spirit of your post but your example justification is flat wrong. E.g. re: warden and necro on lower end of mag dps.
Mag warden was nearly tied with mag dk as top mag dps in harrowstorm (look at liko, skinny cheeks, etc parses - mag warden is basically tied or just barely behind mag dk as #1 mag dps). You might be confusing mag warden to low dps state after it launched.
Mag necro same thing, at launch and before blastbones fixes, it was low end, but with harrowstorm was upper middle. Magsorc actually had lowest dps (for pve, still S+ tier in pvp)
On a parse? Duh they were high, but in practical use they were low up until very recently, Magdens spent most of their time on the low end, not just after their launch So no I was not wrong about that. I stopped playing for a little while when Harrowstorm dropped so maybe there is a change, but forgive me for not accepting a dps parse as proof of performance in the game. When i came back Sorcs were still killing it in all the pve content I did with them and I am still not seeing any Warden Mag dps running around outside of pvp and and few cloudrest runs.
I would like to take my warden mag dps in a few more fights before I dig my heels in on this, but things still seem pretty status quo for them in the actual fights. I am not saying that they did not perform well, they both always preformed well, they just didn't reach the highest numbers. I do wonder if some change was made to the bear that I missed when I looked through some of the patches I missed though, cause I have been seeing a lot more bears recently.
Also, magcro has always middled, it was on the lower end of middling but it still middled, so even in parses not much has changed, and with the siphon being put back on the gcd those numbers might go down again, I am unsure about that one. I might have been wrong to say magcro was low though, since it was middling, lower middling but middling.
Edited by Tessitura on May 26, 2020 4:52PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »So, every Magicka character will be a vampire?
In a PVE high end raid? Yes. Every magicka DPS (except the loan sorc for minor prophecy) will almost certainly be vamp. The spammable is stronger than anything in the game, and because it costs health, it will be a massive boost to sustain as well.
ZOS: We want Vampire to be a meaningful choice. We think its bad that every PVE DPS slots it just for the passive.
Also ZOS: Hey remember when we totally destroyed sustain a few years back.
More ZOS: Here is a new class spam that is bordeline broken OP, and it will fix any sustain issues you had because it will cost health. So please, everyone now run vamp. Also, we just killed two birds because healers now get to feel "useful" again. Whatever that meant.5 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »Knightpanther wrote: »Being a Vampire was never an option for me as a Mage Sorcerer in PVP, the downs far outweigh the good points of that route.
Be Safe
I don't understand how is this related? The vampire part is about PvE.
Where did that come from? Definitely not the Original post. Frags is used in PVP...when you can PVP that is 😛1 -
Kimba_Do✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »So, every Magicka character will be a vampire?
WEREWOLF FOR LIFE! Well, Kittywulf, anyway. I switch between magicka and stamina frequently, but vampires are icky, and I'm all out of sunbock 5,000,000.Edited by Kimba_Do on May 26, 2020 4:34PMNever meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with catsup.
You're all just a bunch of pixels. Turn off the power and you cease to exist.
White Lions. Bringing the jungle fame for over 50 years.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
It is not. You'd be a fool to take Surge over Rapid Regen if you have a resto. Rapid is THE POINT why you would choose a resto staff to begin wirh. With the ult a neat bonus.0 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »So, every Magicka character will be a vampire?
Of course. Just like with every major DLC, everyone wants to be THAT class.
Get all the goody sets and do maxo-super-optimum-supremo damage. Yay! Wooohooo!
Then a month or so later the class skills get nerfed.
Maxo damage sets?
NERFED.
Then it's waiting for the next DLC.
See a pattern?2 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭THis is the second post I have seen you make about how much you don't like the new vamp stuff cause you think it's too strong. There is a very real risk of dying using vampire abilities, not just because of the short range but also because of the health cost, yeah your burst numbers are high but most classes won't keep up on the sustained dps. Warden and Necromancer with their high passive healing probably will be able to sustain it the best, and they were both on the lower end of magicka dps to begin with.
I think you need to take a minute to calm down, this won't be the dramatic world ender you think. Most people will not run vampire. And the ones that do will mostly be burst set ups or aoe set ups. Sorc with out blood for blood is still a super high dps that can stay a safe distance away from melee boss mechanics. You won't need it to stay high up on the dps totem pole.
Not disagreeing with spirit of your post but your example justification is flat wrong. E.g. re: warden and necro on lower end of mag dps.
Mag warden was nearly tied with mag dk as top mag dps in harrowstorm (look at liko, skinny cheeks, etc parses - mag warden is basically tied or just barely behind mag dk as #1 mag dps). You might be confusing mag warden to low dps state after it launched.
Mag necro same thing, at launch and before blastbones fixes, it was low end, but with harrowstorm was upper middle. Magsorc actually had lowest dps (for pve, still S+ tier in pvp)
On a parse? Duh they were high, but in practical use they were low up until very recently, Magdens spent most of their time on the low end, not just after their launch So no I was not wrong about that. I stopped playing for a little while when Harrowstorm dropped so maybe there is a change, but forgive me for not accepting a dps parse as proof of performance in the game. When i came back Sorcs were still killing it in all the pve content I did with them and I am still not seeing any Warden Mag dps running around outside of pvp and and few cloudrest runs.
I would like to take my warden mag dps in a few more fights before I dig my heels in on this, but things still seem pretty status quo for them in the actual fights. I am not saying that they did not perform well, they both always preformed well, they just didn't reach the highest numbers. I do wonder if some change was made to the bear that I missed when I looked through some of the patches I missed though, cause I have been seeing a lot more bears recently.
Also, magcro has always middled, it was on the lower end of middling but it still middled, so even in parses not much has changed, and with the siphon being put back on the gcd those numbers might go down again, I am unsure about that one. I might have been wrong to say magcro was low though, since it was middling, lower middling but middling.
Look at esologs for actual top tier guild performance, and not sure why you say "duh" re: parses - none of the parses I referenced were using cheese setups but actual rotations as would be done in a trial.
I also was replying to the current standard - which was the post I replied to. Magwarden used to be low tier, but we weren't talking about historical neglect - both the post I relied to and my reply was specifically about actual current performance.
As of day ago before this patch, with Harrowstorm, magwarden using real life trial rotation parses was nearly tied with mag DK far ahead of all other mag dps at #1, and mag warden #2 very close behind. The gap is then opened up with #3 being distant enough that if we were to tier rank it, both mag DK and mag warden would be S tire, with the next best mag dps A tier, etc.
I'm not disagreeing both mag wardens and necros deserve their time in the sun given historical neglect but that wasn't the subject matter being discussed.0 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It is not. You'd be a fool to take Surge over Rapid Regen if you have a resto. Rapid is THE POINT why you would choose a resto staff to begin wirh. With the ult a neat bonus.
I mainly PvP with resto/destruction SnB gives decent defense but heals by far compensate.
BUT i always slot Crit surge, Major Sorcery and a heal all in one, cmon you cant pass that up.
btw in case it matters im non Cp Cyro.
Be Safe1 -
Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That is definitely wrong. Maybe you are super good and speak for the top 2% or whatever, but the statement itself is wrong.Only SnB sorcs run Critsurge in PvP. Malacath will be fine on sorc.It is not. You'd be a fool to take Surge over Rapid Regen if you have a resto. Rapid is THE POINT why you would choose a resto staff to begin wirh. With the ult a neat bonus.
I'm still not sure, you are a super strong PvP player (and speak for 2% and theory) or you just have a very narrow view of variety of sorc builds in PvP?
Just for myself - I have 8 PvP sorc builds - some use Rapid+Surge, one use S&B and Surge (like u said), some use resto and Surge but without rapid - just for the ult (specially till barriere costs much more now), one uses 2 destro staff and Surge....
So, maybe I do a lot wrong (I'm not in the top 2% for sure) and your statement should be more like "Only SnB sorcs should(!) run....", but fact - a lot of sorcs out there are using Surge without S&B.
So for me OP is right here - my Surge builds cannot use Malacath's Band of Brutality and thats (maybe) a problem.
But because of the perfomance/input issues I see anyway no chance/reason to buy paymore and get 8 Malacath's Band of Brutality
PC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD1 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭THis is the second post I have seen you make about how much you don't like the new vamp stuff cause you think it's too strong. There is a very real risk of dying using vampire abilities, not just because of the short range but also because of the health cost, yeah your burst numbers are high but most classes won't keep up on the sustained dps. Warden and Necromancer with their high passive healing probably will be able to sustain it the best, and they were both on the lower end of magicka dps to begin with.
I think you need to take a minute to calm down, this won't be the dramatic world ender you think. Most people will not run vampire. And the ones that do will mostly be burst set ups or aoe set ups. Sorc with out blood for blood is still a super high dps that can stay a safe distance away from melee boss mechanics. You won't need it to stay high up on the dps totem pole.
Not disagreeing with spirit of your post but your example justification is flat wrong. E.g. re: warden and necro on lower end of mag dps.
Mag warden was nearly tied with mag dk as top mag dps in harrowstorm (look at liko, skinny cheeks, etc parses - mag warden is basically tied or just barely behind mag dk as #1 mag dps). You might be confusing mag warden to low dps state after it launched.
Mag necro same thing, at launch and before blastbones fixes, it was low end, but with harrowstorm was upper middle. Magsorc actually had lowest dps (for pve, still S+ tier in pvp)
On a parse? Duh they were high, but in practical use they were low up until very recently, Magdens spent most of their time on the low end, not just after their launch So no I was not wrong about that. I stopped playing for a little while when Harrowstorm dropped so maybe there is a change, but forgive me for not accepting a dps parse as proof of performance in the game. When i came back Sorcs were still killing it in all the pve content I did with them and I am still not seeing any Warden Mag dps running around outside of pvp and and few cloudrest runs.
I would like to take my warden mag dps in a few more fights before I dig my heels in on this, but things still seem pretty status quo for them in the actual fights. I am not saying that they did not perform well, they both always preformed well, they just didn't reach the highest numbers. I do wonder if some change was made to the bear that I missed when I looked through some of the patches I missed though, cause I have been seeing a lot more bears recently.
Also, magcro has always middled, it was on the lower end of middling but it still middled, so even in parses not much has changed, and with the siphon being put back on the gcd those numbers might go down again, I am unsure about that one. I might have been wrong to say magcro was low though, since it was middling, lower middling but middling.
Look at esologs for actual top tier guild performance, and not sure why you say "duh" re: parses - none of the parses I referenced were using cheese setups but actual rotations as would be done in a trial.
I also was replying to the current standard - which was the post I replied to. Magwarden used to be low tier, but we weren't talking about historical neglect - both the post I relied to and my reply was specifically about actual current performance.
As of day ago before this patch, with Harrowstorm, magwarden using real life trial rotation parses was nearly tied with mag DK far ahead of all other mag dps at #1, and mag warden #2 very close behind. The gap is then opened up with #3 being distant enough that if we were to tier rank it, both mag DK and mag warden would be S tire, with the next best mag dps A tier, etc.
I'm not disagreeing both mag wardens and necros deserve their time in the sun given historical neglect but that wasn't the subject matter being discussed.
You can't tell me I am wrong on my original post when I was saying that the they were on the lower end of mag dps for most of their time and then come back around and agree with me while still protecting what you said. I was not the one who brought up the last patch's standards, I was just referring to them being on the low end for most of their time in eso. THe whole point of the post was just to reassure the OP that its not the end of the world for them, and that the classes set up to benefit most from Blood for Blood have traditionally been low on the scale and it's okay for them to benefit from this.
( Edit, after going back and looking at my original post I realize I forgot a few words that would have prevented this whole fight. I mean't to say. "and they were both on the lower end of magicka dps -for a long time-to begin with."
I type like a *** and I do that more then I'd like to admit. My bad man.)Edited by Tessitura on May 26, 2020 5:17PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That is definitely wrong. Maybe you are super good and speak for the top 2% or whatever, but the statement itself is wrong.Only SnB sorcs run Critsurge in PvP. Malacath will be fine on sorc.It is not. You'd be a fool to take Surge over Rapid Regen if you have a resto. Rapid is THE POINT why you would choose a resto staff to begin wirh. With the ult a neat bonus.
I'm still not sure, you are a super strong PvP player (and speak for 2% and theory) or you just have a very narrow view of variety of sorc builds in PvP?
Just for myself - I have 8 PvP sorc builds - some use Rapid+Surge, one use S&B and Surge (like u said), some use resto and Surge but without rapid - just for the ult (specially till barriere costs much more now), one uses 2 destro staff and Surge....
So, maybe I do a lot wrong (I'm not in the top 2% for sure) and your statement should be more like "Only SnB sorcs should(!) run....", but fact - a lot of sorcs out there are using Surge without S&B.
So for me OP is right here - my Surge builds cannot use Malacath's Band of Brutality and thats (maybe) a problem.
But because of the perfomance/input issues I see anyway no chance/reason to buy paymore and get 8 Malacath's Band of Brutality
And where do you get the skill slots for that?0 -
ElvenOverlord✭✭✭✭
If they did They wouldn't give me a 20% increased cost to my non vampire abilities. *** that. I'll remain mortal from now on0 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Giving something up for Crit Surge? i don't see it that way CS is one of the first things that goes on my bar, no brain'er to be fair.
Be Safe2 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »So, every Magicka character will be a vampire?
Of course. Just like with every major DLC, everyone wants to be THAT class.
Get all the goody sets and do maxo-super-optimum-supremo damage. Yay! Wooohooo!
Then a month or so later the class skills get nerfed.
Maxo damage sets?
NERFED.
Then it's waiting for the next DLC.
See a pattern?
Unfortunately this is true, thats what happens when you allow damage meters in a game.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Knightpanther wrote: »
Resto sorcs use Rapid Regen, it's more reliable. Critsurge has the drawback of being useless if you're not dealing damage, so streaking behind cover for heals is ineffective. You should combine Critsurge with a DoT, but sorcs only have Boundless for that, which is very short-ranged.
And yet most stam sorcs use it. *** situation for them.2 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »rotaugen454 wrote: »So, every Magicka character will be a vampire?
Of course. Just like with every major DLC, everyone wants to be THAT class.
Get all the goody sets and do maxo-super-optimum-supremo damage. Yay! Wooohooo!
Then a month or so later the class skills get nerfed.
Maxo damage sets?
NERFED.
Then it's waiting for the next DLC.
See a pattern?
Unfortunately this is true, thats what happens when you allow damage meters in a game.
This is why i love Cyrodiil in this game, no one gives a rats ass about dps meters and you can truly diversify your build.
Loads of folks look at builds like mine and laugh because its not some meta alcast build but like many individuals its built around the way i play and 8/10 folks who 1v1 me often end up looking up from the floor thinking 'ok that works'.
I hate meta, i hate being a sheep, love thinking for myself.
Be Safe1 -
DTAmoral✭✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »PvP: Malacath's Band of Brutality will be used by every class except for Sorcerers since it conflicts with Critical Surge.
I run 5 Crafty Alfiq, 5 Bright-Throat, 2 1 piece monster sets.
I will be moving the 5 piece bonus from the 3 jewelry, and staff to 2 Jewelry, Staff, Shoulder.
Malacaths is gonna look nice on my sorcXbox NA - EP
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Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are right - I want my 3rd bar back too
1) only one of 8 chars is using both skills.
2) I give it up for major sorcery (how do you get it? Or do you play without?) PLUS a heal
3) I'm not here to say my way is good or the best - thats the reason why I use so many different builds and cannot say: "That's the best" - all builds suffer at some point.
But back to topic: OP is right for all sorcs with Surge - and they exists Edited by Zabagad on May 26, 2020 6:07PMPC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Knightpanther wrote: »
Giving something up for Crit Surge? i don't see it that way CS is one of the first things that goes on my bar, no brain'er to be fair.
Be Safe
First thing on your bar should be Rapid Regen. It's more reliable.
@Zabagad
You get Major Sorcery from your potion.0 -
Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I do that (sometimes) on my builds with rapid only, but they suffer then often on stam, so I use mostly tri-stat.@Zabagad
You get Major Sorcery from your potion.
But my "playstyle" needs anyway to be flexible on potions and I dont like to be forced to use always the sorcery buff potion.
Sometimes my builds needs potions for detection, unstoppable and other nice potions too.
So as a result, even the rapid only sorcs play then often without sorcery...
And I totaly agree with:
without the laughing part - I dont know what they think about me, but I never saw any other build which comes close to mine - and I like thatKnightpanther wrote: »This is why i love Cyrodiil in this game, [...] you can truly diversify your build.
Loads of folks look at builds like mine and laugh because its not some meta alcast build but like many individuals its built around the way i play[...]
PC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buffing other builds is not a nerf. Just saying.
A class doesn't exist in a vacuum. If every other class get's a shiny new toy but one can't use it, it's an indirect nerf to that class.
Or how would you think about if every other class but your main would get, idk, 10k free resources (as overexaggerated example).1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that Surge is not needed in pvp and thus, does not make Malacath's less desireable on Sorcerers.
If you use surge then you either want healing or a damage buff. Regeneration far overshadows surge in thet regard and entropy overshadows it in the damage depart. If you use surge over any of these things for the stated reasons, then your folly is unimaginable.
I have never used Surge in any other content than veteran Maelstrom Arena. Sure, you can stack it with regeneration in pvp, but I would not like to sacrifice so much space.Edited by Dracane on May 26, 2020 6:37PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.1 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that Surge is not needed in pvp and thus, does not make Malacath's less desireable on Sorcerers.
If you use surge then you either want healing or a damage buff. Regeneration far overshadows surge in thet regard and entropy overshadows it in the damage depart. If you use surge over any of these things for the stated reasons, then your folly is unimaginable.
I have never used Surge in any other content than veteran Maelstrom Arena. Sure, you can stack it with regeneration in pvp, but I would not like to sacrifice so much space.
I can see your point but i respectfully disagree, we don't all use the same play style which is a good thing.
Crit surge gives decent heals (not as good as Regen which is why i run both) and that extra 2% spell damage from expert mage.
The downside of Degeneration is i have to cast it on someone too get that spell buff, no good if i want to have the element of surprise - CS can be cast in stealth, plus i can use CS to boost heals whilst running away er sorry making a tactical retreat.
I reserve my potion for a Vanish/immovable/heal pot.
Each to their own
Be Safe0
