Maintenance for the week of December 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 16
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
Buff Lotus Flower
Vaoh
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This ability needs some serious help.
For those who don't know, here is what Lotus Flower and its (boring) morphs do:
Lotus Flower
Cast Time: Instant
Duration: 20 seconds
Target: Area
Range: 12 meters
Cost: 2970 Magicka
Embrace the lotus blessing, causing Light Attack to restore 1320 Health and your fully charged Heavy Attack to restore 3960 Health to you or a nearby ally for 20 seconds.
The Lotus Blossom morph adds Major Prophecy.
The Green Lotus morph adds Major Savagery.
To breakdown the Warden's Lotus Flower, I will compare it to a similar buff ability called Surge which is actually good and often used by Sorcerers.
TLDR: Lotus Flower is massively outclassed by Surge which clearly shows why no one uses it (besides for the cool animation).
So how do we fix this ability? Easy. Buff it to be as good as Surge.
Lotus Flower (revamped)
Cast Time: Instant
Duration: 20 seconds
Target: Area
Range: 18 meters
Cost: 1960 Magicka
Embrace the lotus blessing, causing Light Attack to restore 1650 Health and your fully charged Heavy Attack to restore 3960 Health to you and a nearby ally for 20 seconds. You gain Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, increasing your Weapon Critical and Spell Critical ratings by 2191.
The Lotus Blossom morph adds 13 seconds. (total: 33 seconds)
The Green Lotus morph increases all other Green Balance ability healing done by 10% and radius by 1 meter while active.
The cost is reduced by 33%. The radius becomes the same as Power Surge. The heal becomes half of Critical Surge, but both you *and* an ally get healed in the same way that Ward Ally works. The base morph gives Major Savagery and Major Prophecy. Lotus Blossom now increases the duration to the same amount as Surge, while Green Lotus is a useful healer-specific morph.
And that's all!
Damage Dealers would cast Lotus Blossom when they're in trouble in endgame PvE. Green Lotus would be slotted by healers for times when extra heals are needed. Anyway those are my thoughts.
Edited by Vaoh on May 25, 2020 7:11AM For those who don't know, here is what Lotus Flower and its (boring) morphs do:
Lotus Flower
Cast Time: Instant
Duration: 20 seconds
Target: Area
Range: 12 meters
Cost: 2970 Magicka
Embrace the lotus blessing, causing Light Attack to restore 1320 Health and your fully charged Heavy Attack to restore 3960 Health to you or a nearby ally for 20 seconds.
The Lotus Blossom morph adds Major Prophecy.
The Green Lotus morph adds Major Savagery.
To breakdown the Warden's Lotus Flower, I will compare it to a similar buff ability called Surge which is actually good and often used by Sorcerers.
Duration
- Lotus Flower (20 seconds), Surge (33 seconds)
- Lotus Flower is much shorter. It has far too little of a duration to slot since you have to constantly recast.
Buff
- Lotus Flower (None), Surge (Major Wpn/Spell Damage)
- Lotus Flower has to be morphed to get Major Wpn/Spell Critical Chance. Spell and Weapon potions covers the buffs, as well as Inner Light and Camoflauged Hunter.
Cost
- Lotus Flower (2971), Surge (4050, but reduced to 3807 with Sorc passives)
- Even though Lotus Flower costs less, you have to cast it much more often, leading to a higher Mag cost/per sec and using up more global cooldowns to maintain.
Radius aka Range
- Lotus Flower (12 meters), Surge (Power Surge Morph: 18 meters)
- The closest version of Surge to Lotus Flower is Power Surge, which has a larger radius and targets allies in larger AoE.
Heal Strength:
- Lotus Flower (1320 on LA, 3960 on HA), Surge (Critical Surge, 3300 on Critical Hit)
- Critical Surge is much stronger and activates from your critical hits, meaning your many damage over time effects will heal you while you are CCed/not able to constantly light attack the target. Power Surge provides a 2550 *AoE* heal every 3 seconds from critical heals, which is more healing in 1-2 procs than Lotus Flower can provide during its whole duration.
- Lotus Flower Light Attack heals over its duration can max out at 26,400, while Critical Surge can max out at 108,900. This is if you flawlessly maintain the healing over the full duration.
Overall Verdict
- The largest difference between Lotus Flower and Surge is that only Surge is actually used by players regularly.
- I slot Surge whenever I'm a Mag Sorc DPS or Healer. I never slot Lotus Flower when I Warden DPS or Healer. Simple as that and it goes for practically all players of those classes.
- At the least....... Lotus Flower has a wonderful animation.
- Lotus Flower (20 seconds), Surge (33 seconds)
- Lotus Flower is much shorter. It has far too little of a duration to slot since you have to constantly recast.
Buff
- Lotus Flower (None), Surge (Major Wpn/Spell Damage)
- Lotus Flower has to be morphed to get Major Wpn/Spell Critical Chance. Spell and Weapon potions covers the buffs, as well as Inner Light and Camoflauged Hunter.
Cost
- Lotus Flower (2971), Surge (4050, but reduced to 3807 with Sorc passives)
- Even though Lotus Flower costs less, you have to cast it much more often, leading to a higher Mag cost/per sec and using up more global cooldowns to maintain.
Radius aka Range
- Lotus Flower (12 meters), Surge (Power Surge Morph: 18 meters)
- The closest version of Surge to Lotus Flower is Power Surge, which has a larger radius and targets allies in larger AoE.
Heal Strength:
- Lotus Flower (1320 on LA, 3960 on HA), Surge (Critical Surge, 3300 on Critical Hit)
- Critical Surge is much stronger and activates from your critical hits, meaning your many damage over time effects will heal you while you are CCed/not able to constantly light attack the target. Power Surge provides a 2550 *AoE* heal every 3 seconds from critical heals, which is more healing in 1-2 procs than Lotus Flower can provide during its whole duration.
- Lotus Flower Light Attack heals over its duration can max out at 26,400, while Critical Surge can max out at 108,900. This is if you flawlessly maintain the healing over the full duration.
Overall Verdict
- The largest difference between Lotus Flower and Surge is that only Surge is actually used by players regularly.
- I slot Surge whenever I'm a Mag Sorc DPS or Healer. I never slot Lotus Flower when I Warden DPS or Healer. Simple as that and it goes for practically all players of those classes.
- At the least....... Lotus Flower has a wonderful animation.
TLDR: Lotus Flower is massively outclassed by Surge which clearly shows why no one uses it (besides for the cool animation).
So how do we fix this ability? Easy. Buff it to be as good as Surge.
Lotus Flower (revamped)
Cast Time: Instant
Duration: 20 seconds
Target: Area
Range: 18 meters
Cost: 1960 Magicka
Embrace the lotus blessing, causing Light Attack to restore 1650 Health and your fully charged Heavy Attack to restore 3960 Health to you and a nearby ally for 20 seconds. You gain Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, increasing your Weapon Critical and Spell Critical ratings by 2191.
The Lotus Blossom morph adds 13 seconds. (total: 33 seconds)
The Green Lotus morph increases all other Green Balance ability healing done by 10% and radius by 1 meter while active.
The cost is reduced by 33%. The radius becomes the same as Power Surge. The heal becomes half of Critical Surge, but both you *and* an ally get healed in the same way that Ward Ally works. The base morph gives Major Savagery and Major Prophecy. Lotus Blossom now increases the duration to the same amount as Surge, while Green Lotus is a useful healer-specific morph.
And that's all!
Damage Dealers would cast Lotus Blossom when they're in trouble in endgame PvE. Green Lotus would be slotted by healers for times when extra heals are needed. Anyway those are my thoughts. 2
-
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭yep this is a simple buff that would be fine. i've suggested a similar buff before.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.Edited by zvavi on May 25, 2020 8:04AM8 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The reason it's not used is Beacuse Arcitc Blast is just better right now, it used to be more popular.
IMHO warden doesn't need more healing, I'd be okay with reduced cost though.3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The reason it's not used is Beacuse Arcitc Blast is just better right now, it used to be more popular.
IMHO warden doesn't need more healing, I'd be okay with reduced cost though.
Artic Blast needs to get it´s healing completely removed (and get reworked into a propper stun for magdens) and Polar Wind needs to be reworked so the heal scales of max magicka and/spell damage. The healing proportion of the skill is heavily overperforming and no heal should scale of max HP if you ask me.
By reducing/reworking the healing on this skill, you can without problems buff the skills in the actual healing skilline warden has.2 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would help a lot if Lotus had a guaranteed heal tick on the user, as well as some off-heals for the group (targeting like Ward Ally). The group heal magnitude isn’t really important, but ideally it would hit multiple group members, allowing Warden DPS to reliably provide Minor Toughness to an entire 12-man trial group (reducing the need for a Warden support, and increasing Warden DPS viability). The group heal would also proc the Nature’s Gift passive, to add some sustain (this does nothing every time a Lotus heal targets the user or the bear).
I’ll also throw out one more idea for the Major Prophecy/Savagery on Lotus. Make this buff apply to up to 12 players. This would be similar to Igneous Weapons providing Major Sorcery/Brutality, and if the two skills were combined then groups could use dropped potions or heroism potions. It doesn’t add much power to top groups, but it would make raiding more accessible to those that cannot afford Spell Crit potions. This can already be done by double barring Camo Hunter or Inner Light, but that can get tough with limited bar space.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The reason it's not used is Beacuse Arcitc Blast is just better right now, it used to be more popular.
IMHO warden doesn't need more healing, I'd be okay with reduced cost though.
Arctic Blast is great but that’s not exactly why Lotus Flower is unused.
In PvE it was legit never used.
In PvP it was used a bit especially in BGs, up until they rebalanced everything. There’s just no room for it anymore with a cost that high and an effect than minimal. Slot the godly Radiating Regeneration, throw on Living Vines (either morph), and then do whatever else you need to do. I haven’t seen Lotus Flower in a very long time and I can’t even justify spending a skill point to keep it unlocked anymore.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It would help a lot if Lotus had a guaranteed heal tick on the user, as well as some off-heals for the group (targeting like Ward Ally). The group heal magnitude isn’t really important, but ideally it would hit multiple group members, allowing Warden DPS to reliably provide Minor Toughness to an entire 12-man trial group (reducing the need for a Warden support, and increasing Warden DPS viability). The group heal would also proc the Nature’s Gift passive, to add some sustain (this does nothing every time a Lotus heal targets the user or the bear).
I’ll also throw out one more idea for the Major Prophecy/Savagery on Lotus. Make this buff apply to up to 12 players. This would be similar to Igneous Weapons providing Major Sorcery/Brutality, and if the two skills were combined then groups could use dropped potions or heroism potions. It doesn’t add much power to top groups, but it would make raiding more accessible to those that cannot afford Spell Crit potions. This can already be done by double barring Camo Hunter or Inner Light, but that can get tough with limited bar space.
Having Lotus Flower function like Ward Ally is exactly what I was hoping for!
I like that idea a lot of providing Major Prophecy and Major Savagery to the whole group. The players who would benefit the most would be those in progression, and it would help a Mag Warden DPS be more valuable to the group in terms of group buffs.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
0 -
ShadowNoobSoul ShrivenI used Lotus Flower in combination with Cliff Racer to beat vMA. No other heals used. Worked great for me.0
-
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShadowNoob wrote: »I used Lotus Flower in combination with Cliff Racer to beat vMA. No other heals used. Worked great for me.
Nice! Unfortunately it’s still very weak and needs to be buffed so it’s worth using in endgame PvE trials.
You can tell by just comparing it to Surge which provides you with 2-3x more heals per proc, has a much longer duration, and activates much more conveniently.
People have done naked vMA runs too btw. So it’s not exactly representative of anything. I myself have done runs with an “Ice Mage” build and with a 0CP build. Congrats on the run but I hope you don’t mistakenly use that skill in trials and drop your DPS because of it.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending by healing ourselves or allies at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 25, 2020 10:14AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair. But that's from PvP perspective, from PvE perspective, I think wardens do need more self heals in pve, I mean, I seriously slot flowers when I don't trust healer to heal me. And that's a group heal.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.Edited by zvavi on May 25, 2020 10:20AM0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
i've argued for a long time that there needs to be a power shift with some warden skills and mostly passives. part of this also goes for healing skills. the class is woefully unbalanced in terms of power allocation.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 25, 2020 10:29AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair. But that's from PvP perspective, from PvE perspective, I think wardens do need more self heals in pve, I mean, I seriously slot flowers when I don't trust healer to heal me. And that's a group heal.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
i personally think slotting living trellis is great for pve, you can also slot budding. i think that's fine as well. to me pve self healing isn't an issue either. blood mist on vampire is also insane in terms of keeping you alive. but it restricts you to staying in the mist.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 25, 2020 10:26AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It all starts with ZOS accepting player feedback. After 3 years..... not too hopeful.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
i've argued for a long time that there needs to be a power shift with some skills and mostly passives. part of this also goes for healing skills0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It all starts with ZOS accepting player feedback. After 3 years..... not too hopeful.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
i've argued for a long time that there needs to be a power shift with some skills and mostly passives. part of this also goes for healing skills
i am not too hopeful anymore either. The chilled buff suggestion for warden we had was implemented a year later in harrowstorm. if they are working on the rest of our suggestions, it's going to take a few years. and also, look at how long bloodthirsty took to be fixed on bear!Edited by ESO_Nightingale on May 25, 2020 10:35AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
It all starts with ZOS accepting player feedback. After 3 years..... not too hopeful.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
i've argued for a long time that there needs to be a power shift with some skills and mostly passives. part of this also goes for healing skills
i am not too hopeful anymore either. The chilled buff suggestion we had was implemented a year later in harrowstorm. if they are working on the rest of our suggestions, it's going to take a few years. and also, look at how long bloodthirsty took to be fixed on bear!
Right! And while it’s good to have the Bear benefit from Bloodthirsty, it will also have the exact downside we’ve all mentioned before - the Bear is even more mandatory now.
Northern Storm should have become the alternative damage dealer Ult to the Bear Ult if you didn’t want a bear.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Not saying that Lotus is fine, I'm just wondering why you compare to crit surge instead of power surge? PS is the morph that isn't only a selfheal and has 3 times the cooldown of CS and a lower heal. Did you take that into consideration?0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
It all starts with ZOS accepting player feedback. After 3 years..... not too hopeful.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
I think it’s like what @ESO_Nightingale mentioned. As long as they leave Arctic Wind and it’s morphs the way they are, Wardens will always have crazy healing. It should be made into a skill more focused on damage/stunning.ESO_Nightingale wrote: »More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
I don't think this would really bust up much when it comes to pvp balance, as we would need to slot this skill over something else. And i don't agree that they need a "reliable self heal", as in a self heal that is easy to use and heals a lot. our defensive options when it comes to healing, mitigation and even speed are already quite vast. and i think we should have a defensive weakness. as we have a good bit of speed due to bird of prey and quite good mitigation via ice fortress, the frozen armor passive, the chilled status effect and northern storm, i think it's fine to keep living trellis as our main self burst heal as we have a passive that gives us major mending at low health. As it currently is, arctic blast's healing is unneeded from a balance perspective as it makes us too tanky. I think we need to see the healing on that morph completely removed, and that morph reworked with a magicka damage and stun focus. It would help solve several pain points on both sides. To play as and to fight against.
Fair.More group heals is definitely not what wardens need. They do need a reliable self heal though. Problem is that it will be hard to balance in PvP, where wardens are pretty strong as they are.
Group heals in PvP shouldn’t be justification for keeping a skill pitifully weak and useless. If we catered all skills to PvP there would no longer be any PvE in this game.
PvP is a totally separate issue. Lotus Flower becoming a good skill will have almost no effect in the grand scheme of things, just like Power Surge. In fact, because it only targets you and one ally it will actually be useful to small scale players the most.
Apologies. U must have misunderstood. wardens don't need more group heals in pve. While they have too strong self heals in PvP. (Major mending they get from lotus blossom let's their non class heals pop their hp up like mad)
Ok but in PvE no one uses Lotus Flower. Legit no one lol. This skill is aweful. What you’re saying is that since Wardens are good in the healer role, we should leave this skill trash for everyone?. I want to slot Lotus Flower on my Warden Healer or Warden DPS and have it actually be a strong skill. Rn it’s a big dps loss, hurts sustain, and does almost nothing.
No, what I said is that when buffing lotus blossom you need to take PvP balance into account. I mean I understand that instead of thinking about what I said and trying to make a coherent argument it is easier to throw a tantrum(for example after buffing lotus blossom to be useful nerfing the major mending passive for 30% hp instead of 40%).
PS to your knowledge all classes have skills that are useless in pve. What makes lotus blossom a skill that is must be useful in pve?
PS2 I am all for ignoring PvP and just buffing the skill, since I don't really PvP, but you know, being fair to other parts of the game is important.
The ability is undertuned, it’s not really up for debate. PvP istaken into account which is why it should heal the caster and one ally instead of the whole group. Rn it’s only one target at random and can barely even proc its own skill tree passives.
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Of course it is what will make it unbalanced. The strong part of wardens kit is all the heal passives in that tree. Pairing it with a strong long heal over time effect will make it overtuned.
I understand your point about how adding another good heal to the Warden’s kit will make an already strong healing class even stronger. Just unfortunate that they are this good at healing while Lotus Flower has been left in the dirt, and if it gets buffed it might be too much.
i've argued for a long time that there needs to be a power shift with some skills and mostly passives. part of this also goes for healing skills
i am not too hopeful anymore either. The chilled buff suggestion we had was implemented a year later in harrowstorm. if they are working on the rest of our suggestions, it's going to take a few years. and also, look at how long bloodthirsty took to be fixed on bear!
Right! And while it’s good to have the Bear benefit from Bloodthirsty, it will also have the exact downside we’ve all mentioned before - the Bear is even more mandatory now.
Northern Storm should have become the alternative damage dealer Ult to the Bear Ult if you didn’t want a bear.
i've resigned myself to that fate to be honest. i think it's important that all of the animal companions magicka skills deal frost damage. since they use a damage type that they don't normally use (that being magic), i think it's fair to justify it as "warden magic" and that magic should reflect the warden's unique damage type, of course, that being frost damage.
i've said this many times before but our class needs real damage identity. they've begun to add bleeds to stamden which is unique, so i think they need to continue to elaborate on the themes.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Not saying that Lotus is fine, I'm just wondering why you compare to crit surge instead of power surge? PS is the morph that isn't only a selfheal and has 3 times the cooldown of CS and a lower heal. Did you take that into consideration?
well, that skill heals multiple allies in an area and is based on critical damage. this is only light and heavy attacks, heals less, and with this suggestion, would only heal 2 people. seems pretty fair to me.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry what?
Warden is:
- stamden PVP - 2nd best in solo play, second only to broken stamcro
- magden PVP - awesome in group play
- warden healer - best healer
- warden tanks - rarely used in meta groups because wardens are better in healer role, but still a very good tank
- magden dps - have highest parses in latest changes
- stamden dps - yeah, this guys fell behind, but that's because you can't buff them without buffing them in PVP where they are already borderline OP.
So overall, warden is even better then necro (magcro aren't good for anything aside from some group PVP build).. and all 4 base game classes may only dream about such diversity of available BiS roles.
So while lotus flower can have some love, something should be nerfed to compensate, and I'm not sure you'll want that.3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Not saying that Lotus is fine, I'm just wondering why you compare to crit surge instead of power surge? PS is the morph that isn't only a selfheal and has 3 times the cooldown of CS and a lower heal. Did you take that into consideration?
well, that skill heals multiple allies in an area and is based on critical damage. this is only light and heavy attacks, heals less, and with this suggestion, would only heal 2 people. seems pretty fair to me.
Not quite. It heals allies for 2550 every 3s on critical heals.
Lotus would heal yourself and 1 other for 1320 on every light attack. How many light attacks do you usually do in 3s? 3? So it's 4950 in 3s.
*completely base tooltips*
If you want to compare skills that heals other you can't compare it with selfheals. Of course those are stronger.
And you weave anyways. At least you should.
Not to mention that Crit Surge's healing power get's weaker the less you invest in crit (no cp, heavy armor) or even completely shut down if you're grabbing that pvp meta item Malacath's Band.
Only downside I really see here is that it procs on less people.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 25, 2020 11:33AM0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Sorry what?
Warden is:
- stamden PVP - 2nd best in solo play, second only to broken stamcro
- magden PVP - awesome in group play
- warden healer - best healer
- warden tanks - rarely used in meta groups because wardens are better in healer role, but still a very good tank
- magden dps - have highest parses in latest changes
- stamden dps - yeah, this guys fell behind, but that's because you can't buff them without buffing them in PVP where they are already borderline OP.
So overall, warden is even better then necro (magcro aren't good for anything aside from some group PVP build).. and all 4 base game classes may only dream about such diversity of available BiS roles.
So while lotus flower can have some love, something should be nerfed to compensate, and I'm not sure you'll want that.
here we go.
what i don't get about comments like these, are that they assume that the class no longer has any problems because they are doing well in the current patch. and that the people who suggest changes, are also somehow automatically against any changes to other classes. nothing here has said that necro shouldn't get anything.
also. We just talked completely removing the healing from arctic blast to make it have a defensive weakness based around self healing.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Not saying that Lotus is fine, I'm just wondering why you compare to crit surge instead of power surge? PS is the morph that isn't only a selfheal and has 3 times the cooldown of CS and a lower heal. Did you take that into consideration?
well, that skill heals multiple allies in an area and is based on critical damage. this is only light and heavy attacks, heals less, and with this suggestion, would only heal 2 people. seems pretty fair to me.
Not quite. It heals allies for 2550 every 3s on critical heals.
Lotus would heal yourself and 1 other for 1320 on every light attack. How many light attacks do you usually do in 3s?
*completely base tooltips*
If you want to compare skills that heals other you can't compare it with selfheals. Of course those are stronger.
And you weave anyways. At least you should.
Not to mention that Crit Surge's healing power get's weaker the less you invest in crit (no cp, heavy armor) or even completely shut down if you're grabbing that pvp meta item Malacath's Band.
Only downside I really see here is that it procs on less people.
while i'm not saying power surge shouldn't be buffed (because it does seem a little underpowered to me), i think that having more consistent and controllable healing via light attacks for only 2 people is completely fine. as the skill is quite boring, unreliable and underpoweredEdited by ESO_Nightingale on May 25, 2020 11:36AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Making Lotus Flower decent isn’t going to imbalance PvP lol. In fact the suggestion would pretty much be to make it half of a Crit Surge heal. Even with the proposed changes a lot of people wouldn’t slot it in PvP. In PvE is where it could see more use.
Not saying that Lotus is fine, I'm just wondering why you compare to crit surge instead of power surge? PS is the morph that isn't only a selfheal and has 3 times the cooldown of CS and a lower heal. Did you take that into consideration?
well, that skill heals multiple allies in an area and is based on critical damage. this is only light and heavy attacks, heals less, and with this suggestion, would only heal 2 people. seems pretty fair to me.
Not quite. It heals allies for 2550 every 3s on critical heals.
Lotus would heal yourself and 1 other for 1320 on every light attack. How many light attacks do you usually do in 3s?
*completely base tooltips*
If you want to compare skills that heals other you can't compare it with selfheals. Of course those are stronger.
And you weave anyways. At least you should.
Not to mention that Crit Surge's healing power get's weaker the less you invest in crit (no cp, heavy armor) or even completely shut down if you're grabbing that pvp meta item Malacath's Band.
Only downside I really see here is that it procs on less people.
while i'm not saying power surge shouldn't be buffed (because it does seem a little underpowered to me), i think that having more consistent and controllable healing via light attacks for only 2 people is completely fine. as the skill is quite boring, unreliable and underpowered
Like I said, I don't think Lotus is perfectly fine, I'm just worried that the wrong benchmark gets used here.
It seems like this discussion is heading to "overbuff" when I read ideas that it should buff an entire trial group with toughness (maturation) or savagery/prophecy, which would mean that it has to heals more than just one other player to reliably do that.1