We got the reason why Scions don't have wings and got an answer on how Lamae modified her bloodline

Thevampirenight

@Noxavian i know was very passionate about this I don't know what happened to him. But do to Forum Rules we can't talk about it.

According to Lemon or the art director, there is a lore reason behind this. Only the Apex Vampire Lords have Wings or something and it has to do with the power in Molag Bal's Blood that makes up what makes up a Vampire Lord is the impression I got from the answers. They had wings in development because the teams kinda put stuff together from existing in game stuff however the wings got taken out because the Blood Scions are not supposed to have them. Not sure why this is the case maybe its something Bethesda Restricted them on that is a theory or because the game couldn't handle it which is another Theory. It was said the wings were something that should have been pulled even before Pts. So we are not ever getting winged Blood Scions. Is the Answer and the Answer is Lore.

We also got an Answer on Lamae and how she modified her bloodline.
It is indeed Sorcery or ritual that she uses to modify her own bloodline and she does have this power and ability that is the reason why the feeding for power instead of staving for power is flipped. We also got an Answer that Molag Bal and Lamae Bal really hate each other or don't like each other. So there is an actual rivalry there and Lamae will do anything to stick it to him in the eye and she also used Ritual and blood magic to Make the Blood Scion Form. Its not a form of Vampire Lord and this is 100% not a form created by Molag Bal. Lamae made this form herself so it is a unique Lamae Creation.

GeorgeBlack

I dont play or care for vamps, and Im pretty sure nobody wanted a Twilight vampire looking ulty, but what you are getting is lame, especially since this whole chapter is a skyrim hypetrain.
So yeah, now that you are told why to enjoy this look, you totally will

XomRhoK

Thevampirenight wrote: »

We also got an Answer on the Lamae and how she modified her bloodline.
It is indeed Sorcery or ritual that she uses to modify her own bloodline and she does have this power and ability that is the reason why the feeding for power instead of staving for power is flipped. We also got an Answer that Molag Bal and Lamae Bal really hate each other or don't like each other. So there is an actual rivalry there and Lamae will do anything to stick it to him in the eye and she also used Ritual and blood magic to Make the Blood Scion Form. Its not a form of Vampire Lord and this is 100% Not a Creation by Molag Bal. Lamae made this form herself. So it is a Unique Lamae Creation.

And given all this, she created a form that looks like Molag Bal...
[snip]

I am not against different bloodline and appearance, just this particular Blood Scion totally missed the mark. Tall, bulky, glowing, with horns, with human animations and with weapon, which totally not suit his demonic appearance. And by side we have Bloodknight NPC, with little adjustments(less armor and smaller size) it would be almost perfect variant for me. Sadly we didn't get him even as one of the morphs.

[Edited for bashing]

Paradisius

It makes you wonder then, why even make a transformation? If the point was to make sure you dont copy the Vampire Lord, why even humour the idea of transforming into a Vampiric beast? The back and forth regarding this entire ultimate that has been spread across months of time could have been avoided if they did a unique ultimate based around shadow/blood magic or bats. Now we have an ult that is pretty mixed in general. It is not unique enough to not be called a Vampire Lord, and yet its worse than a Vampire Lord feature wise.

Lord-Otto

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Raisin

Lamae, ripping the wings off a Vampire Lord and drawing on it with red marker: ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL #molagbalisapoopiehead

Thevampirenight

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

A Good question and well Its similar to Alchemy being able to modify Werewolves. They are adding more of that element in Greymoor only this time with Vampires. It can also be modifed by Biochemistry. But it also seems like it can be modifed by some kind of blood magic.
So Blood Magic has the ability to Modify Vampire Strains.

Who knows maybe it leads to the more d&dish Vampires seen in Daggerfall. The ones with iron and steel immunity's and powerful attributes and abilties. With a huge weakness to sun and took holy damage. I mean it could be a good way to line up with the vampires seen in that game. Maybe she did take it to far and those vampires became to be as a result losing their sunlight immunity and obtaining a weakness to the shrines of the Divines.

BoraxFlux

No wings, because the team that worked on the vampire skills / BloodScion on PTS had to start somewhere, went ahead of the design team, and used part of the design of the Vampire Lord for the Blood Scion, which wasn't meant for that if I understand correctly. Just the sandbox-plots of the PTS.

Thevampirenight

BoraxFlux wrote: »

No wings, because the team that worked on the vampire skills / BloodScion on PTS had to start somewhere, went ahead of the design team, and used part of the design of the Vampire Lord for the Blood Scion, which wasn't meant for that if I understand correctly. Just the sandbox-plots of the PTS.

Yeah it seems that it wasn't intended to look exactly like the Vampire Lord.

xXMeowMeowXx

I want the wings it looks better

See evil vampy meh vampire

The evil version looks better. Just like the wings would for ESO’ vampy

Linaleah

um.. we knew that Lamae hated Molag Bal all along, I mean... he is the reason for her current condition. we discover that during becoming a vampire quest.

she hates Molag Bal for defiling her and she hates Arkay for abandoning her. we literally defile their symbols as part of the ritual and she explains why

so that's not really a revelation.

Sephyr

Paradisius wrote: »

It makes you wonder then, why even make a transformation? If the point was to make sure you dont copy the Vampire Lord, why even humour the idea of transforming into a Vampiric beast? The back and forth regarding this entire ultimate that has been spread across months of time could have been avoided if they did a unique ultimate based around shadow/blood magic or bats. Now we have an ult that is pretty mixed in general. It is not unique enough to not be called a Vampire Lord, and yet its worse than a Vampire Lord feature wise.

One idea could be that she's taking the trope of a rebel teen, throwing a tantrum, and then creating something to make a mockery and be like "I can do it too. You're not special."

At the same point, there's a valid point to this--that's simply put that the form is too reminiscent of Bal himself and mostly diminishes the answer outright imo. So I really agree with the statement of "why even humour the idea". If it's blood rituals and basing the idea out of mimicry, it still doesn't follow up to the hype unless the true apex predator to her line are mortals rather than those lines strongly associated with Molag Bal. In which if that's the case, I can fully well see that. But there's not that much of an active story threat against Lamae's line with her line vs. mortals. Verandis was turned by Molag Bal and the questlines that we DO run into her bloodline is far and few in between. It almost feels like her line is rather dedicated for players, which is a shame because if they wanted all of this lore out there--they should be throwing it in quests that explain it better.

I don't know. IMHO, I'm still rather underwhelmed with the line in general and maybe coming back to it after a break will give me a bit of a fresher outlook on it.

Thevampirenight

Linaleah wrote: »

um.. we knew that Lamae hated Molag Bal all along, I mean... he is the reason for her current condition. we discover that during becoming a vampire quest.

she hates Molag Bal for defiling her and she hates Arkay for abandoning her. we literally defile their symbols as part of the ritual and she explains why

so that's not really a revelation.

Yeah true but we didn't know there was an actual two way rivalry between the two of them that is new information.

Radiance

Sounds like an excuse for bad execution.

Vevvev

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Thevampirenight

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Lamae isn't the only one that is shown doing it in the chapter either.

BoraxFlux

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Hehe, that's the whole point of children, sometimes you wish you could upload your own knowledge to them, but then again, the'll need to find their own paths in a way. It might be different, but more fitting in the face of this time.

Thevampirenight

Well at least its good they did answer some of the questions. At least now we know about the reasons for not doing the Blood Scion Wings sorta and well got to get a bit more lore in the process with this latest stream.
So at least that is something. I'm glad they gave us some answers.

GeorgeBlack

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well at least its good they did answer some of the questions. At least now we know about the reasons for not doing the Blood Scion Wings sorta and well got to get a bit more lore in the process with this latest stream.
So at least that is something. I'm glad they gave us some answers.

WK lv up!

TX12001rwb17_ESO

See I keep telling you, infact that was one of the first things I brought up and yet you never once listened to reason, given how weak stage 4 is though I still do not buy the whole feeding to get stronger thing, it still looks like your getting weaker, the ability to run and hide is not a substitute for power.

Also Blood Magic is how they transform into anything, what did you expect? they can transform into Bats or Mist, some Vampire can look like other people, how is the Blood Scion any different?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Those weakness likely have nothing to do with their actual Vampiric state so likely cannot be changed in any way, a weakness to fire is a trait many undead have, not just Vampires.

silvereyes

Don’t overthink the answer about why feeding makes vamps more powerful now instead of less. They already explained that the whole point of the update was to make being a vamp an active role, and that includes not discouraging feeding. Lore master Tuttle is just supporting that design decision with some creative retconning.

tomofhyrule

I realize the lore is backwards about feeding -> stronger, but I can kinda understand it. I guess it's like if you get a taste of blood, you start to crave it and become more monstrous? Yeah, that's not the lore of the vampires we're used to in Oblivion/Skyrim, but I can get it.

...Still, it does match with some of the lore that's in game already, in a roundabout way. In Eastmarch, there's the Wittestadr questline with the vampire Majorn and his son Valeric - the son is a stage 1 vamp and his whole deal is controlling his hunger by feeding on skeevers and not attacking people, while his father is a stage 4 vamp and makes it a point to feed.

AlienSlof

Paradisius wrote: »

It makes you wonder then, why even make a transformation? If the point was to make sure you dont copy the Vampire Lord, why even humour the idea of transforming into a Vampiric beast? The back and forth regarding this entire ultimate that has been spread across months of time could have been avoided if they did a unique ultimate based around shadow/blood magic or bats. Now we have an ult that is pretty mixed in general. It is not unique enough to not be called a Vampire Lord, and yet its worse than a Vampire Lord feature wise.

^ This. ^

They went with the transformation as fanservice, most likely, even though vampire lord was a Volkihar-specific thing. unique to their particular bloodline.

Personally, I would have preferred blood magic or bats as an ulti. I play my vampire as more of a seductive old devil who gets his meals in a more pleasurable form! (Except when I'm using him in trials! )

Al99

The thing is, we didn't really need a vampire lord ultimate. We needed a cool and unique ultimate that vampire players have been waiting for ever since the release. We didn't necessarily need a winged creature, but that was all we were teased with. The Collector's Eition, the trailers, renders, even the pre-PTS video clips. Hell, even the game told us we were vampire lords.
Then a month before the release they pull the wings and explain it via lore. Fine by me, but why even make an ultimate that looks so similar to something we'll never have access to? If they were transparent from the very beginning, telling us not only that there's a vampire lord in the game, but also that we won't become one, people wouldn't be pissed they receive something other than what was teased. The Witcher universe has some cool vampiric creatures like the Ekimmas, Fleders, Garkains and Katakans. None of them has full-fledged wings but each and every one of them looks like a vampiric creature. Vampire lord without the wings looks like something completely different.. A dremora or a demon perhaps? Lamae may not be a god but she created something that almost exactly resembles a vampire lord. Almost...

Lord-Otto

Btw, there is another worrisome implication. So, you remember how the community hated on the cardboard wings? And when they got removed, we were like, "yes ZOS heard us!"?
Well, they didn't. ZOS didn't give a flying crab about our opinion. They prioritized their questionable lore team over their customer's feedback. If lore team had said cardboard wings gucci, we would still have them.
Let that sink in. And try not to think about how little the PTS valued our feedback, while you're at it. (^_-)

Lord-Otto

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Those weakness likely have nothing to do with their actual Vampiric state so likely cannot be changed in any way, a weakness to fire is a trait many undead have, not just Vampires.

Perfect Scion has no fire weakness. What keeps Lamae from further rituals until her strain has permanent stage five perfection?
The lore team is erasing rules here and that is a very bad thing for a world. You know how "Game of Thrones" used to have set rules, like travel time? And in the final seasons, people were just fast traveling, even warping all over Westeros, much to the dismay of fans the? Yeah, that is the same mistake ZOS are making here.

RaddlemanNumber7

One thing I'm still unclear on:

Is this a straight retcon, meaning that Lamae Bal's Vampires have always had the new abilities inside the story?

Or are we to believe that on Tirdas, 26th Second Seed 2E 582 Lamae Bal performs a ritual that changes her vampire bloodline to have these new abilities?

Michaelkeir

Radiance wrote: »

Sounds like an excuse for bad execution.

This guy gets it. I agree.

Lokryn

I'm not buying it.

I suspect the real reason is that they didn't have time to make the wings look good enough for release and so they scrapped the idea and justified with lore after the fact.

Sephyr

Lord-Otto wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Deus ex Machina.
If Lamae can modify her blood (which is a clear retconning tool), where will she stop? Immunity to fire? Immunity to mundane weapons? Lemon Turtle has opened Pandora's Box here.

Yes Pandora's box has been opened. Before it took the power of a daedric prince and one of his bargains to slightly alter a bloodline just a little. Now, a mere immortal vampire with a Vendetta can completely change a vampire's entire nature to the point they don't even need blood to stay sane anymore.

Those weakness likely have nothing to do with their actual Vampiric state so likely cannot be changed in any way, a weakness to fire is a trait many undead have, not just Vampires.

Perfect Scion has no fire weakness. What keeps Lamae from further rituals until her strain has permanent stage five perfection?
The lore team is erasing rules here and that is a very bad thing for a world. You know how "Game of Thrones" used to have set rules, like travel time? And in the final seasons, people were just fast traveling, even warping all over Westeros, much to the dismay of fans the? Yeah, that is the same mistake ZOS are making here.

It does raise some questionable implications that seem to have a theme. I don't want to post spoilers, but there's also blood rituals being performed in Greymoor's storyline too, or what looks like with the decorational clutter in one of the wings I was able to sneak in without doing the quest. Furnishings I'd love to have, but at the same time if they plan on using this trope and they abuse it they may as well just start calling vampirism something else. A vampire that grows insanely vulnerable as they drink blood? Someone's been in the skooma again.