Daily reminder that ZOS are willingly ruining the vampire

ShadowHvo

Just your everyday public service announcement.

ZOS doesn't care, and the vampire showcase livestream just goes to show it all the more.

TragedyOA

Just cured my pve-dps.
Thx Zos.

ShadowHvo

TragedyOA wrote: »

Just cured my pve-dps.
Thx Zos.

Yeah, I would've done the same, had my monstrous vampire character not been my sole reason to even play this MMO.

I've played him since the very release of this game, and now I'm just counting the days until I can no longer participate in any veteran, or endgame content.

I'm fuming over the fact that ZOS really doesn't realize, or even consider what impact these changes has on their own community.

All because of one single bloody penalty...

MartiniDaniels

ZOS will buff vampire later. Now they want everybody to cleanse, so when they'll buff it, there will be nobody to give free bites
Of course they didn't perform such thing before..

Oh, wait.. (reading Werewolf changes in patch notes)

Olen_Mikko

I like the changes. No free buffs anynore. Actions have consequences.

Yes, it hurts 9/10 of my chars, but i'll adapt and overcome it

Artorias24

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

I like the changes. No free buffs anynore. Actions have consequences.

Yes, it hurts 9/10 of my chars, but i'll adapt and overcome it

If ZOS turns ESO in just a picking up flowers Simulator, you will also adapt and overcome?

I hate those Statements cause you literally say ZOS can do whatever they want and you will take it with a Smile and adapt.

The_Old_Goat

Have you tried out the new vamp on the pts?

ShadowHvo

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Have you tried out the new vamp on the pts?

I've posted constant feedback through /feedback ingame, and here on the PTS forums.

So yes.

Saubon

I'm so tired of these threads already. I'm not saying its you but a lot of players were vampires just for free stam/mag regen passive and now they act on forums like they were so into vampirism and how ZOS ruined their only love in this world and how the are gonna cancel their subscription. Just go and cure vampirism if it doesn't fit your class/build 10% mag/stam regen is nothing. I'm gonna do the same, I'll keep it on 2 of my characters where I can see any use of it.

And those who actually enjoyed being a vampire got full vampire skill line, maybe not the best, but it's better than it was.

Zatox

Free recovery passive is gone, and this is awesome. Finally, vampirism has drawbacks

Rake

Whenever I read adapt and overcome I crave more ignore slots on forums

Lazarus_Rising

I think everything they done with vampire is better for class identity than what we have now. Vampire was already a tough choice just for one passive really. I do not think vampire can be ruined because vampire was really boring to begin with. These changes allow players to be a vampire as a class and have some impactful skills which can be used not only in pvp. This all is a big improvement for the vampire as a whole if balanced right.

ShadowHvo

Saubon wrote: »

I'm so tired of these threads already. I'm not saying its you but a lot of players were vampires just for free stam/mag regen passive and now they act on forums like they were so into vampirism and how ZOS ruined their only love in this world and how the are gonna cancel their subscription. Just go and cure vampirism if it doesn't fit your class/build 10% mag/stam regen is nothing. I'm gonna do the same, I'll keep it on 2 of my characters where I can see any use of it.

And those who actually enjoyed being a vampire got full vampire skill line, maybe not the best, but it's better than it was.

And yet now it is virtually ruined for anyone that isn't a Magicka DD.

My own character, which is a stamina DD, is massively penalized for being a vampire. I gain no abilities, no solid mechanic. All I gain is a tiny bit of damage resistance and decreased sprint cost with invisibility after 3 seconds.

What do I trade for that?
- No Health Recovery whatso ever.
- 20% increased damage from fire - the most prominent element in the entire game. (I'm OK with this btw)
- 12% INCREASED COST TO EVERY SINGLE ABILITY IN THE GAME.

I'm good with literally this entire rework, with exception of that last penalty, because that utterly ruins the vampire for Stamina characters, Healers, and Tanks.

I've sent constant, tons of feedback and good suggestions as to how this could easily be fixed and made more appropriate, as to better fit a wider-array of builds. Many other people have done that, too. But here we're, with the vampire in ruins.

I've been a Vampire in ESO since the very early launch of the game, and I've not removed it once. In fact, I still have the damn Bloodfiend buff bug on my character, a relic of the past that you'll see on no modern vampire. Now all I can do is helplessly watch as ZOS removes my ability to participate in veteran content.

Thats not very fun.

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

I think everything they done with vampire is better for class identity than what we have now. Vampire was already a tough choice just for one passive really. I do not think vampire can be ruined because vampire was really boring to begin with. These changes allow players to be a vampire as a class and have some impactful skills which can be used not only in pvp. This all is a big improvement for the vampire as a whole if balanced right.

It would be, had it not been for the "increased ability cost" across the board.

That is the single penalty that ruins the vampire for everyone but Magicka Damage Dealers.

Zatox wrote: »

Free recovery passive is gone, and this is awesome. Finally, vampirism has drawbacks

Vampirism should have drawbacks, yes. But increased ability cost isn't a good, nor sensible drawback. Good drawbacks would be so:
- Reduced healing received by non-vampire abilities
- Increased ability cost per vampire ability slotted (This would literally balance it out perfectly)

Also, just as an fyi, you're saying that to the guy who wish that Stage 4 was immediate Justice System "Attack on Sight" and that vampires should burn in the sun

Rake wrote: »

Whenever I read adapt and overcome I crave more ignore slots on forums

Godyes. I'll keep dreaming.

Lintashi

I actually enjoyed being a vampire for many years, but yesterday, all my vamps save 1 mule were cured. I will not cancel my sub over it, but since my main is not a vamp anymore, I will not buy vampire themed items anymore. And I even considered buying Bastion house, since I had several vamps. ZOS can miss alot of money, if 70% of the vampire population will get a cure, as poll on this forum states, and I bet, many more will get a cure, when they will be kicked out of every vet dungeon and trial. I understand, that people do not like to be forced to be vampire for the sake of 1 passive, but saying that being bloodfiend trashmob is better, as it is "playstyle" is dumb. If people want to gimp their characters to play as vampire, it is their choice, but saying that changes are good, is absolutely wrong. No other skill like (Psijic, Undaunted, Fighters, Mages) makes other abilities cost more.

Chaos2088

Yall need to put down those tin foil hats.

Deathlord92

Saubon wrote: »

I'm so tired of these threads already. I'm not saying its you but a lot of players were vampires just for free stam/mag regen passive and now they act on forums like they were so into vampirism and how ZOS ruined their only love in this world and how the are gonna cancel their subscription. Just go and cure vampirism if it doesn't fit your class/build 10% mag/stam regen is nothing. I'm gonna do the same, I'll keep it on 2 of my characters where I can see any use of it.

And those who actually enjoyed being a vampire got full vampire skill line, maybe not the best, but it's better than it was.

A lot of us have a right to be upset I for one did not take vampire for passives I like it for role play most of the time I’m stage 1 but I will not deny the passives are very useful and that when I’m pvping I do use em but I have been a vampire since release and I was a vampire in both oblivion and skyrim to. Yes will definitely keep vampire and try my very best to make it work I’m a stamblade so maybe that will work in my favour but atm the only good thing I see coming out of this vampire re work is the new feeding animation.

Galwylin

I'm in the camp that vampires should have drawbacks. Major drawbacks because I feel it shouldn't be taken for a game play reasons at all but solely for the role playing aspects. Certainly you shouldn't be hammered into the ground as to taking it idiotic but it should be a bit like werewolf where if you want to enjoy being a werewolf you will learn to enjoy those skills you will have to rely on when you hit that button. The question remains if they can build on that so while areas require good use of class skills maybe you can rely on vampire skills in a different way. Its all a question are they imaginative enough, and willing, to look at the game and how vampire characters can approach things in new ways. And those ways work with existing groups. Like vampires having those hooks we used in Elyswer only available to them in places. You wouldn't block attacks so much as jump completely out of the way or something of that nature.

One solution they might should look at is having vampire's influence class skills. Attacks might cost more but they have a resources mechanic where vampires damage that way like some of their own skills will work. I think the cost to class abilities should probably hold until they get a better grasp on things but weapon skills, especially staff shouldn't have that associated cost as that's something that works across the board regardless of class so why the cost to things of that nature. Its all dependent on are they viewing vampires more like a class or a race (it should be a combination and they need to determine that).

But to go back to just having vampire as a no cost continual buff makes it feel like a choice of do you want this gold item or do you want this blue one. That makes them boring and non-special like all those videos of builds that tell you to be a vampire for so and so reason. No, it should have a downside where only very specific builds use it not you absolutely need it to take if you want.

I personally would like to see day night cycle factor in but that's just me. I know I didn't care at all about playing a vampire because they didn't have the drawbacks to make doing seem fun. Like playing a thieving character in this game isn't so much fun because its so easy to do that only very specific content is even design around the idea. Now this seems a fun direction at least in term they are looking at it (this once and only this once which is the main concern for me). But if its not going to have a cost just hand out the buffs to every character and make vampire a cosmetic like a costume of something.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

OP you dislike the direction vampire is going. Others will disagree and like it. Doesn't seem worth of a "daily reminder".

Vevvev

I wouldn't mind a rework if they stayed loyal to what a vampire is in the Elder Scrolls, but they didn't. Instead now we get a reverse vampire in more ways than one. Feeding reversal, abilities that drain your life, and dealing more damage when you're almost dead instead of when you're gorged on blood and at full strength.

At least they got vampire seduction and mistform right. Sad about everything else, especially what they did to vampiric drain.

drkfrontiers

I had 5 vamps. Cured them all.

No buffy. So sad.

This marked the day my opinion of ESO took a turn for the worst.

Starlock

How are vampires being "ruined" exactly? I'm just going to shrug, assume this is a heavily biased assessment based on the OP's particular wants and desires, then look at the actual patch notes when they release for PC/Mac for myself.

LukosCreyden

What exactly have they done to ruin it?

I mean, beforehand, it was a glorified passive with a skin.

drkfrontiers

LukosCreyden wrote: »

What exactly have they done to ruin it?

I mean, beforehand, it was a glorified passive with a skin.

Maybe you should spend five minutes reading the volume of PTS feedback of players who have experienced it?

StormeReigns

Adorable.

AmoralOne

Artorias24 wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

I hate those Statements cause you literally say ZOS can do whatever they want and you will take it with a Smile and adapt.

They are not forcing you to play.. Its not your game. They can do whatever they want regardless of what you want because they paid to make the game. Adapt and move on. Dont like it? Stop Playing. Stop Paying. Stop Complaining.

Commancho

People just wanted a vampire overhaul with VL transformation and 5 new abilities and they got something completly diffrent than they were expecting and to what they got used to in the past few years. Now they will have opportunity to re-balance sustain again, draw your atention and pretend that they are actually working on the game ;-)))

Chilly-McFreeze

DTAmoral wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

I hate those Statements cause you literally say ZOS can do whatever they want and you will take it with a Smile and adapt.

They are not forcing you to play.. Its not your game. They can do whatever they want regardless of what you want because they paid to make the game. Adapt and move on. Dont like it? Stop Playing. Stop Paying. Stop Complaining.

What a solid way to give feedback.

LukosCreyden

@drkfrontiers I have read some PTS stuff, the main issue I've seen is the balance between stages. However, turning vampire into an actual playstyle still seems like an improvement.

MartiniDaniels

drkfrontiers wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

What exactly have they done to ruin it?

I mean, beforehand, it was a glorified passive with a skin.

Maybe you should spend five minutes reading the volume of PTS feedback of players who have experienced it?

And what's so frightening in there?

In patch notes I see 15% average mitigation + 300 SD/WD + access to spam of the one of the most OP abilities in the game at cost of 8% abilities cost increase, -60% health recovery reduction, 13% fire susceptibility?

On live you have 8% average mitigation + 10% to both recoveries and if you use vampire abilities often you end up at dangerous stage4 very fast, all of that at cost of -25% health recovery and 20% fire susceptibility.

Ok, let's say that for build without stacked health recoveries, changes to recovery/susceptibility compensate each other. So it is 7% more damage mitigation + 300 SD/WD + spam of vampire abilities without going to stage 4, for 8% cost increase and loss of 10% of resource recoveries. Looks fine for me, not OP but adds interesting options for builds. Btw, everybody I heard, is telling that sustain is for the noobs, all experienced players stack damage and % mitigations, because those 2 are most important in burst meta.

Oh, or you were just for free 10% regen on non-fire bosses in PVE without ever slotting vampire ability? Then it is was what Lukos said - glorified passive with a skin.

drkfrontiers

LukosCreyden wrote: »

@drkfrontiers I have read some PTS stuff, the main issue I've seen is the balance between stages. However, turning vampire into an actual playstyle still seems like an improvement.

I here you - turning it into a playstyle is a noble goal.

I just question its viability in end game content. Time will tell if a vampire will manage to handle the harder content in the game. My gut feeling is that they best get use to rejection.

Vevvev

Starlock wrote: »

How are vampires being "ruined" exactly? I'm just going to shrug, assume this is a heavily biased assessment based on the OP's particular wants and desires, then look at the actual patch notes when they release for PC/Mac for myself.

Me and a few other people who have tested it on the PTS ((OP included I think.)) have been experimenting with the new vampires and find them a bit too restrictive. For starters their kit is a bit dodgy at best and doesn't synergize very well with itself when compared to other class skill lines. Reason I compare it to class skill lines is because of the one drawback that increases all non-vampire skill's cost by 3/5/8/12% depending on the stage.

Active Skills:

The first ability is Eviscerate which is a cheap magicka spammable ability that increases in damage by up to 50% based on lost health. One morph makes it so if you go below 50% health every hit is a guaranteed critical hit, and the other morph costs health and makes it scale up to 100% extra damage based on missing health. This ability is the only viable damage dealing option in the entire vampire skill line and is the ultimate "Dummy cheese" You can hit insanely impressive DPS numbers with this skill on a dummy, but in practice to get such numbers you have to be almost dead. Also the health cost version deals magic damage so there is no possible way a stamina build could use this ability.

Next skill is Blood Frenzy and in its original incarnation it was an okay skill. Now after the 6.0.3 PTS patch this ability is the most dangerous skill you can possibly use. It costs health every single second for 660 extra spell and weapon damage, but even unmorphed it increases in cost by 20% every single second with no cap. One morph also boosts its damage given by 10% every second, and the other saves 33% of the health its siphoning off of you and gives it back once turned off. This is a very, very, VERY high skill ability that most of the time isn't even worth the trouble having slotted. It meshes well with the new ultimate at least since while in Scion form you heal for 15% of the damage you do.

Then we have Mesmerize which is pretty okay. Its a cone based AOE stun with an odd rule that your opponent must be looking at you. The "Looking at you" part is actually a 90 degree cone in front of your foe that has to be overlapping your character model. It gets kind of silly because their head could be turned to be looking at you but in reality the game doesn't see them as looking at you. One morph is a 360 degree stun and the other puts a 53% snare on your target after the stun ends. Its an okay ability, but hard to land.

Mistform is exactly as it is on live but now its a toggle. Elusive mist is exactly the same but the other morph, bloodmist, heals you for 100% of the damage you do with the blood cloud. The bloodmist morph is amazing in PVE and is basically a full heal in crowd situations. Also lets you solo world bosses with no care in the world.

And finally we have vampiric drain. This ability got gutted heavily when compared to live. It heals for more but still only heals missing health, has had over half of its damage stripped from it, and it has 0 crowd control effects to stop people from bashing your face in and stunning you. This ability is detrimental to your health and has no use in both PVE and PVP. One morph restores 5% of your missing stamina and the other gives you 4 ultimate a second. Yes... even the ultimate morph got nerffed where they made it restore 4 ult a second instead of 5.

And for the ultimate we have blood scion.... This ability is OP when fighting a noob player but anyone who is smart knows to run away. Vampires lack a gap closer so its not like the blood scion can catch you unless they somehow slotted one from somewhere else, and this ability stuns you in the beginning and the end. 2 Seconds to turn into the Scion and 2 seconds to revert back, which means 2 of the 20 second long ultimate is wasted during this transformation. One morph gives you the old batswarm ability but at like half the power, but for WAY longer, and the other brings you to vampire stage 5. The 5th stage gives you all the benefits of stage 4 with none of the drawbacks, which means you can stay stage 1 forever and have perfect scion slotted if you want the passives for a short duration.

Passive Skills

The old stage 4 passive is now universal. You'll always enter sneak faster at any time of day and ignore the sneak speed penalty.

Feed lets you obviously drink people's blood. The stage passives are as follows:
Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery: -10/-30/-60/-100%
Flame Damage Taken: +5/+8/+13/+20%
Regular Ability Cost: +3/+5/+8+12%
Vampire Ability Cost: -6/-10/-16/-24%

Stage 2 passive is Strike from the Shadows which gives you 300 spell and weapon damage for 6 seconds after leaving mistform, invisibility, and stealth. Basically a gankers dream passive.

Stage 3 is undeath but buffed like crazy. Instead of activating when below 50% health it starts at 100%. This means when you're at 50% health you have 15% damage mitigation. Very useful.

Stage 4 is Unnatural Movement where after 3 seconds of sprinting you turn invisible, and sprinting costs 50% less. Falling, stop sprinting, and damage can pull you out of this stealth and I've found it only really good for cheesing PVE content and getting around in PVP unseen. Sneaking is better at initiating an attack since you can get certain buffs like Blood Frenzy and Race against Time up, and of course you can get off a sneak attack with stamina skills. ((Yes, Eviscerate cannot do sneak attacks.))

((Edited for Grammar))