Transmutation stones as compensation for impen nerf [pvp]

OlumoGarbag

On thuesday when greymoor comes live the impen trait will be nerfed by around 50%. With a baseline of critresist added for everyone.

Impen will still be the best trait on some builds but on alot of builds it wont be anymore. (For you pve players: imagine divine would get nerfed by 50% and you would have to replace every single big piece with an infused piece to remain around the same damage)
I know almost every player has alot of impen armor laying around. I myself have around 500 impen body pieces. If i would use the end of campain reward to transmute all of them it would take 15000 days/ 500 months / 41,6 years to transmute them with one char.

I dont really feel like waiting for this long until i can use all my pvp gear to its max.

Here are some suggestion:

- some free transmutes to change traits on body pieces only
- every campainreward has a 100% chance to drop a transmute geode (this will lower the nirnhoned market but it did recover from the last time you could basically transmute everything super fast)
- a warzone NPC that allows you to change traits on 1 body piece per day in exchange for AP

Yes i can already hear all the pve players shouting agrily over a pvp buff. But consider this: pvp was and is in a terrible state since years, ZOS only caters questers and pve players ever since battlegrounds got introduced, if it were you who would need to change almost your entire gear wouldnt you want the same thing?

asdf0716

dude... you get like a bajillion transmute stones from RotW. You are guaranteed a yellow uncracked geode every 24 hours. I've been pvping for two weeks and I have more freaking transmute stones then I know what to do with... (and that's ONTOP of the eight toons I got to Tier 1) just put your RotW on a Mule character and open one a day...

Banana

Impen is still going to be good

Mindcr0w

Buffs and nerfs happen constantly in MMO's. Expecting "compensation" when the nerf bat happens to swing your way is unrealistic and ridiculous.

Also lets be realistic you are only ever going to use a fraction of those "500" body pieces and you have access to many more transmute stones than just the ones from the end of campaign rewards.

kargen27

How many of those 500 pieces of armor have you used in the last six months?

xXMeowMeowXx

I like the OP, some really creative ideas in there. Some of them would be a really nice QOL change for PvP with Greymoor.

Noice

OlumoGarbag

kargen27 wrote: »

How many of those 500 pieces of armor have you used in the last six months?

Around 100-150 i would say. I play all classes and also alot of off-meta builds. Even changing those would take an eternity

asdf0716 wrote: »

dude... you get like a bajillion transmute stones from RotW.

Open them and tell me then how many body pieces you are able to transmute. 5, 10, 15 ?
You know that the yellow RoW ones drop only around 5-10 on average and you need 50 stones to transmute.

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Buffs and nerfs happen constantly in MMO's. Expecting "compensation" when the nerf bat happens to swing your way is unrealistic and ridiculous.

Impen was never nerfed so hard before. So no, it doesent happen all the time.

Mindcr0w

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Impen was never nerfed so hard before. So no, it doesent happen all the time.

🙄

Impen may not have gotten hit this hard previously, but other things have. These things are just part of the reality of playing MMO's. You aren't going to get anything for it. Sorry.

OlumoGarbag

Mindcr0w wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Impen was never nerfed so hard before. So no, it doesent happen all the time.

🙄

Impen may not have gotten hit this hard previously, but other things have. These things are just part of the reality of playing MMO's. You aren't going to get anything for it. Sorry.

There were some really huge changes before. They completly changed racial passives. So alot of people saw that their favorite chars became kind of useless. In compensation for that everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

If they would nerf divine to a point where its not BiS anymore there will be compensations for it. So why should it different with such a major change regarding pvp.

Mindcr0w

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

There were some really huge changes before. They completly changed racial passives. So alot of people saw that their favorite chars became kind of useless. In compensation for that everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

You really want to compare something as important to player's as what race they are to changes in the strength of an armor trait?

If they would nerf divine to a point where its not BiS anymore there will be compensations for it.

No there won't.

In fact anyone who doesn't expect divines to get hit somewhere down the line, and isn't preparing for it is out of their mind.

If a single armor trait is overperforming so much compared to other traits that it is basically the only trait ever used for a particular activity it is going to get nerfed sooner or later.

OlumoGarbag

Mindcr0w wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

There were some really huge changes before. They completly changed racial passives. So alot of people saw that their favorite chars became kind of useless. In compensation for that everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

You really want to compare something as important to player's as what race they are to changes in the strength of an armor trait?

If they would nerf divine to a point where its not BiS anymore there will be compensations for it.

No there won't.

In fact anyone who doesn't expect divines to get hit somewhere down the line, and isn't preparing for it is out of their mind.

If a single armor trait is overperforming so much compared to other traits that it is basically the only trait ever used for a particular activity it is going to get nerfed sooner or later.

Divine isnt overperforming its actually pretty bad. But it is the only Trait that buffs your damage besides infused, so everyone has to run it in pve.

Also i would argue that impen nerf is a much bigger change then race change for pvp players.

Mindcr0w

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Divine isnt overperforming its actually pretty bad. But it is the only Trait that buffs your damage besides infused, so everyone has to run it in pve.

If it is the only trait being used for a particular task, it is by definition overperforming for that task.

Changes will definitely be coming.

Also i would argue that impen nerf is a much bigger change then race change for pvp players.

Yeah I was talking how important it is to the player, not how much it actually impacts gameplay.

Regardless you are comparing changes that impact every single character across all roles, to changes that impact one specific activity. Changes that will still leave impen bis for a lot of characters, further lowering the number of people actually being hurt by this.

xXMeowMeowXx

No it means bis and that does not equate over-performing.

Mindcr0w

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

No it means bis and that does not equate over-performing.

Then you don't understand how developers think.

Best in slot is one thing. The only thing ever used is another entirely.

If one trait alone is being used for a particular task which outcome do you feel is most likely?

A.) The devs never touch it.

B.) They buff other traits to bring them up to par.

C.) They nerf the good option.

My money is on C. I don't have to like it, but we all know nerfs are usually the go to solution.

AmoralOne

In my opinion, they do not owe us anything. Changes will come all the time. Expecting them to compensate us for all of them, or even 1 of them is nonsense.

For your 500 pieces of gear you using, truly how many sets are actually viable, and how many sets are a meme, but you declare are good because you managed to kill a low lv with them.

Trait change your bis gear using the rewards you get for the camp, if you have 7 characters, you can do 1 character per month at a minimum.

Play enough pvp, and you could do 1-2 a month.

Thats just my opinion.

[snip]

[Minor Edit for Baiting]

nesakinter

Mindcr0w wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

No it means bis and that does not equate over-performing.

Then you don't understand how developers think.

Best in slot is one thing. The only thing ever used is another entirely.

If one trait alone is being used for a particular task which outcome do you feel is most likely?

A.) The devs never touch it.

B.) They buff other traits to bring them up to par.

C.) They nerf the good option.

My money is on C. I don't have to like it, but we all know nerfs are usually the go to solution.

@Mindcr0w Impen is not about BiS or OP. It is intentionally designed as a PvP trait so that PvP could be balanced without nerfing crit in PvE. Stat density wise Sturdy or Well-fitted beats Impen.

Mindcr0w

nesakinter wrote: »

@Mindcr0w Impen is not about BiS or OP. It is intentionally designed as a PvP trait so that PvP could be balanced without nerfing crit in PvE. Stat density wise Sturdy or Well-fitted beats Impen.

I agree with you.

I am not saying I personally think Impen is OP. I'm not saying that putting a pvp trait on gear and then being surprised when everybody uses it in pvp isn't silly.

I'm just addressing the reality of how the devs operate. A single trait being overwhelmingly used for a particular task is going to eventually result in nerfs the majority of the time. Expect it.

mavfin

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Buffs and nerfs happen constantly in MMO's. Expecting "compensation" when the nerf bat happens to swing your way is unrealistic and ridiculous.
.

Exactly. Games evolve and change. They almost never take back changes, either. Like the vMA weapons. That's not going to get changed back, either.

If people want to quit over Change X or Y, they might as well start uninstalling, because they're not going to back it out, unless there's like a *united* outcry, and I don't mean just the loudest people on the forum.

kichwas

Only if they let more of them stack as a currency.

Some of my characters have bags full of the things that I'm just stuck with unless I want to grab some random piece of gear and transmute it from A to B without looking...

xXMeowMeowXx

Mindcr0w wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

No it means bis and that does not equate over-performing.

Then you don't understand how developers think.

Best in slot is one thing. The only thing ever used is another entirely.

If one trait alone is being used for a particular task which outcome do you feel is most likely?

A.) The devs never touch it.

B.) They buff other traits to bring them up to par.

C.) They nerf the good option.

My money is on C. I don't have to like it, but we all know nerfs are usually the go to solution.

Ummmm, no one has been understanding the devs direction and thinking

I met some of them and they still didn’t lend any insight to their inner thoughts on balance. Just that they’re really passionate about ESO and their player-base.

Most decisions lately are geared towards casuals and certainly not seasoned players. That much is clear.

Also, I never said impen was the only thing used in PvP. So you’re wrong with that.

Impen is needed but there are other traits used in PvP for the best builds play-wise and stat-wise....mixed in

Depending on the type of PvP you are doing Cp/NonCp/Bgs/Duels

The OP though has some good ideas like this one....

- a warzone NPC that allows you to change traits on 1 body piece per day in exchange for AP

Maybe not everyday but it is a good idea. More places to spend AP is always good.

With the limited amount of crystals we can hold, you usually destroy them or transmute something to decon.

SeaGtGruff

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

Berek_Bloodfang

I completely agree

idk

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

I think they misspoke. I believe you are correct that we only got 3.

As for the suggestion in the OP, this is why the transmutation system is here. Everyone could have easily accumulated enough to transmute most of one set of gear. While I think the cap on how many we can have is absurd as it does not prevent us from hoarding them I do not see a reason why Zos needs to give us some for free.

SeaGtGruff

idk wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

I think they misspoke. I believe you are correct that we only got 3.

As for the suggestion in the OP, this is why the transmutation system is here. Everyone could have easily accumulated enough to transmute most of one set of gear. While I think the cap on how many we can have is absurd as it does not prevent us from hoarding them I do not see a reason why Zos needs to give us some for free.

I never used a one of mine, so I know exactly how many I got because I still have them. But to be honest, I think I had only 3 characters at the time, so if other players actually did get as many as 5, that might be why I only got 3.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

I think they misspoke. I believe you are correct that we only got 3.

As for the suggestion in the OP, this is why the transmutation system is here. Everyone could have easily accumulated enough to transmute most of one set of gear. While I think the cap on how many we can have is absurd as it does not prevent us from hoarding them I do not see a reason why Zos needs to give us some for free.

I never used a one of mine, so I know exactly how many I got because I still have them. But to be honest, I think I had only 3 characters at the time, so if other players actually did get as many as 5, that might be why I only got 3.

It was three. I had one character at the time.

Thank my photographic memory.

idk

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

I think they misspoke. I believe you are correct that we only got 3.

As for the suggestion in the OP, this is why the transmutation system is here. Everyone could have easily accumulated enough to transmute most of one set of gear. While I think the cap on how many we can have is absurd as it does not prevent us from hoarding them I do not see a reason why Zos needs to give us some for free.

I never used a one of mine, so I know exactly how many I got because I still have them. But to be honest, I think I had only 3 characters at the time, so if other players actually did get as many as 5, that might be why I only got 3.

I checked my alt account and I have used at least one race change as it is at 2, but I did have 3 name change tokens which shows we did get 3 in that update. While Update 21 patch notes do not mention these tokens, Zos originally intended to only give us 1 token per account but changed that to 3 due to our feedback. Gina announced that just before the launch of U21.

It does not look like anyone got 5 for free with that update.

EmEm_Oh

Impen was useless in PvP for the last 2 years. Maybe longer. PvE it's pointless, too.

PvP, the fights are generally so fast...crit is not the issue. Lag will kill you way before your tanky impen set will kick in.

Impen being nerfed implies something else is going on and I won't say it until after Greymoor is released.

Taleof2Cities

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Impen being nerfed implies something else is going on and I won't say it until after Greymoor is released.

We'll be waiting with bated breath ... since the devs already explained why they nerfed it and put in a baseline crit resist.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/update-26-combat-preview#latest

Langeston

Huh?

Pre-Greymoor, if you're wearing 7 impen you have 1806 crit resist in no CP. (27.36% crit damage reduction.)

Post-Greymoor, if you're wearing 7 impen you have 2554 crit resist in no CP. (38.69% crit damage reduction.)

The Shadow mundus increases crit damage by 13% and wearing all divines only adds another 6%, for a total of 19% — so someone wearing all impen completely negates just over twice that.

Impen is still going to be the strongest trait for most PVP builds — if anything, there needs to be a net reduction in critical resistance. Giving everyone a free 11.3% crit damage reduction was just dumb IMO.

D0PAMINE

idk wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

everyone got 5 free race change tokens.

Gosh, I only got 3. Why did everyone else get 5?

I think they misspoke. I believe you are correct that we only got 3.

As for the suggestion in the OP, this is why the transmutation system is here. Everyone could have easily accumulated enough to transmute most of one set of gear. While I think the cap on how many we can have is absurd as it does not prevent us from hoarding them I do not see a reason why Zos needs to give us some for free.

I never used a one of mine, so I know exactly how many I got because I still have them. But to be honest, I think I had only 3 characters at the time, so if other players actually did get as many as 5, that might be why I only got 3.

I checked my alt account and I have used at least one race change as it is at 2, but I did have 3 name change tokens which shows we did get 3 in that update. While Update 21 patch notes do not mention these tokens, Zos originally intended to only give us 1 token per account but changed that to 3 due to our feedback. Gina announced that just before the launch of U21.

It does not look like anyone got 5 for free with that update.

I got 3 on my main and 3 on my alt acct.

Mindcr0w

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Ummmm, no one has been understanding the devs direction and thinking

Ha! Fair enough.

But I stand by my assertion that when one thing is used overwhelmingly more than other available options in an MMO, savvy players should expect nerfs, whether they seem warranted or not.