Why ESO players like short duration things.

Tapio75

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

MartiniDaniels

Because we like to mash buttons

Tapio75

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Because we like to mash buttons

Obviously :P

robertthebard

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Because we like to mash buttons

The forums are going to explode, but I agree.

Kolzki

Why do you want to move your fingers in rapid order to play that guitar? Why not have long duration samples play when you hit the strings for a more relaxing experience?

Tandor

No-one is eligible to talk about short duration buffs unless they played a shaman in the original EverQuest. Those who did will know what I mean !

Giljabrar

Tandor wrote: »

No-one is eligible to talk about short duration buffs unless they played a shaman in the original EverQuest. Those who did will know what I mean !

I played enchanter. Nothing was more buttclench than trying to maintain CC's/debuffs on 13 enemies when they all spawn in the middle of your camp. AA targeting window only went up to 8, so that was good fun. God I miss playing that class. There hasn't been a role that focused so heavily on CC/Debuff/Buffing in any MMO I've played since.

MartiniDaniels

robertthebard wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Because we like to mash buttons

The forums are going to explode, but I agree.

Ha-ha, yes, we may have something in common

Tapio75 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Because we like to mash buttons

Obviously :P

I don't think it is must have, but it gives some rhythm to the game... and rhythm is life

VaranisArano

I wonder how much of it is due to the limited number of skill slots we have. After all, if you only have 10 skills, LA, HA, and movement, having short duration means we are constantly using all our skills.

MEBengalsFan2001

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

Some skills morphs should do the following for shields.

1) Dmg shield last longer but has less dmg it can absorb
2) Dmg shield can absorb more damage but doesn't last as long

Some skills morphs already do this but IMO should be tweaked a bit more to
1) Do more damage but last even less time
2) Last a bit longer

IMO anything that offers a HoT, DoT, or a shield should start off lasting 10 seconds. Than the morph should make it last 5 seconds with bigger HoT, DoT and shield strength or the the morph that makes is last 20 seconds with lower HoT, DoT, and shield strength.

caperb

And if we had long duration buffs, shields and heals, how boring will become combat then? No skill will be needed anymore. Keeping your buffs up is actually a pretty important part of the combat system in eso.

Banana

I wear Elfbane so I like em longer

meneerpeer

Current skill duration state (if the servers are keeping up) is great. Makes the game more rewarding for actually skilled players.
Master the button mashing and you are top tier.
If you chose not to, most content can be played just as easy.

Rave the Histborn

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

WoW might be more your style or Guild Wars 2. They're a lot less fast paced and the action is less strategic and more straight forward. You sound like you're more experienced though so I'd beware of their endgames. They both devolve into the same things and once you get to this point your normal enemies are going to be easier than the current ESO structure

MarzAttakz

I'd gladly go with something as small as a 2 second increase, but yeah, I agree, button mash for the sake of a "rotation" is boring and damaging to my fingers, joints and wrist. It isn't reactive at all, rather indicative of a playstyle built purely on damage, damage, moar *** damage. Bah.

Not that I'm against APM heavy gameplay, I mained an Elementalist in GW2 for a number of years, a Cleric in NW, Runekeeper and Warden in Lotro, difference is those instances there was a more fulfilling purpose to the action.

Anyways... queue statements.

Tapio75

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

Some skills morphs should do the following for shields.

1) Dmg shield last longer but has less dmg it can absorb
2) Dmg shield can absorb more damage but doesn't last as long

Some skills morphs already do this but IMO should be tweaked a bit more to
1) Do more damage but last even less time
2) Last a bit longer

IMO anything that offers a HoT, DoT, or a shield should start off lasting 10 seconds. Than the morph should make it last 5 seconds with bigger HoT, DoT and shield strength or the the morph that makes is last 20 seconds with lower HoT, DoT, and shield strength.

This is what i would consider an improvment. Something for everyone plus the baseskills should also be upgradeable to give that third midle option to keep using it as it is but improved.

meneerpeer wrote: »

Current skill duration state (if the servers are keeping up) is great. Makes the game more rewarding for actually skilled players.
Master the button mashing and you are top tier.
If you chose not to, most content can be played just as easy.

Keeping your buffs up need litle skill. You test them yourself or read the correct ones from internet and be done with it. You always have the same buffs on same playstyle and thats it. They are not situaational spells, they are just thinbgs to keep up. From what i have seen people talking here on forums, these "Spammables" as they say with light attack plus buff to burst is all that is needed. Sets give some important stuff that requires only reading on the internet but not action from player. This basically ,means, that you press the same buttons as fast as possible all day long. It just requires some memory and that being muscle memory which comes fast to healthy person.

caperb wrote: »

And if we had long duration buffs, shields and heals, how boring will become combat then? No skill will be needed anymore. Keeping your buffs up is actually a pretty important part of the combat system in eso.

Something ölike what World of Warcraft was during Wrath. We had the buffs, that we applied in start of an instance or pvp plus shields we put on to shield us from the damage they absorbed, they were in reality, pretty short duration when based on damage instead of artificial timelimit set by gamemechanics.

In battle, we had lots of situational spells, different damage types for different enemies. Resistance buffs for shor burst damage, that required knownledge of incoming damage type. We had good CC to keep some enemies at bay, but also counterspells to counter the CC and lots more. DoT's of different damage types that again, required knownledge to be used to right enemies and limits what you can pull.

Nothing situational like that Exist in ESO. Just standaardized damages and even more standard resistances with shield or protection being pretty much only damage counters that only really vary in visuals. Just like WoW now, but just more rapifd button mashing.

What i would like, is to have buffs to be applied every five minutes for example, not as strong as they are now that give some resistances and regenerations and then for battle, spells that do not ever include something that one could call spammable. Different spells and crowd controls and all sorts of counters for varying enemies where undead would require certain damage and humanoids other plus each having different resistances, so you just cant go to fight pressing same buttons all day long without any real pull limit.

ESO when combat is concerned, is very simple game. I dont play ESo for combat though, i play it for stories and lore and because its TES, but if the combat was more engaging and required more knownledge instead of muscle memory, i would also play it for combat.

Tapio75

MarzAttakz wrote: »

I'd gladly go with something as small as a 2 second increase, but yeah, I agree, button mash for the sake of a "rotation" is boring and damaging to my fingers, joints and wrist. It isn't reactive at all, rather indicative of a playstyle built purely on damage, damage, moar *** damage. Bah.

Not that I'm against APM heavy gameplay, I mained an Elementalist in GW2 for a number of years, a Cleric in NW, Runekeeper and Warden in Lotro, difference is those instances there was a more fulfilling purpose to the action.

Anyways... queue statements.

Elementalist is my favorite in GW2. Once i learned to stay alive, it was fun as heck to play

EvilAutoTech

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Because we like to mash buttons

I like to play baseball

I like to go swimmin'

I like to watch movies

With pretty women

Bradyfjord

I won't disagree that Wrath era Wow was a great time. On the other hand, this is a totally different game.
I don't have a problem with buffs that last 10 seconds or more. But less than that with our current performance issues, and it is hard to maintain ones buffs and reliably monitor group assignments.

Tapio75

Bradyfjord wrote: »

I won't disagree that Wrath era Wow was a great time. On the other hand, this is a totally different game.
I don't have a problem with buffs that last 10 seconds or more. But less than that with our current performance issues, and it is hard to maintain ones buffs and reliably monitor group assignments.

Maybe less button pressing would sent less information to be checked on server side and less resåpnses to send back which could give litle better performance? From my experience with Networks on my job, less trafficx means better oerformance, but in general, i dont really want less active game, but id like to have more meaningful combat where you need to know more stuff rather than remember what buttons to press .



Wrath all in all was a great experience but yeah. This is different game and im happy of that though the most important thing that i care about is lore and stories. Combat in the other hand, i liked Wrath style combat back in the day and i also like complexity of EvE Online, so i would love to have more meaningful combat like i said

Fur_like_snow

The rhythmic clicking of mouse and keyboard is cathartic. ESO has its own pace and rhythm.

Kingslayer513

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

Honestly, your post is littered with the same old confrontational rhetoric that is used (and fails) in every post of this nature. Key examples: "it takes no skill", "nothing gives a challenge", "it's only speed/button mashing", and so on and so forth. [snip]

The combat in ESO is not for players like you. Period. If you play to relax, quest, roleplay, etc. then the combat is basically irrelevant to you. The combat developers have explicitly said so, repeatedly. All of the combat designs are thinking towards both pvp and more challenging pve content such as vet dungeons and trials. And quite frankly, if you don't participate in that content then you will likely never understand why ESO's fast paced combat works so well. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

jecks33

and please, stop coming from other games and ask to make Eso similar to wow, gw2 or whatever.
Eso is Eso, if you don't like something maybe it's not for you

ItsJustHashtag

Because believe it or not eso used to be more skill based. Having shorter durations and etc are good because it allows a skills gap imo.

Tapio75

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

Honestly, your post is littered with the same old confrontational rhetoric that is used (and fails) in every post of this nature. Key examples: "it takes no skill", "nothing gives a challenge", "it's only speed/button mashing", and so on and so forth. [snip]

The combat in ESO is not for players like you. Period. If you play to relax, quest, roleplay, etc. then the combat is basically irrelevant to you. The combat developers have explicitly said so, repeatedly. All of the combat designs are thinking towards both pvp and more challenging pve content such as vet dungeons and trials. And quite frankly, if you don't participate in that content then you will likely never understand why ESO's fast paced combat works so well. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

You disagree, that selecting a spammable to weave added with upkeep of buffs and damage shield is nothing more than muscle memory thing? If so, please explain the rotations that require something else than simple muscle memory?

I should have made the first post more clear though. It not all about just being fast button mashing. Button mashing for sake of it has no value and when it can all be done with muiscle memory and is mostly based on spammable, light/heavy attacks and upkeeping stuff, it not as much about the skill and knownledge than it is about memory.

Upkeepimg buffs is very nauseating for me. It just doing same stuff all day long as fast as one can do it plus the need to constantly change action bars to get everything is rather annoying mechanic and has veryy litle of relaxing value.

I do like situational spells and reactive gameplay though, but ESO does seem to have very litle of this whether it is PVE or PVP and one does not need to play lots of that content to know this, because forums and internet is full of information that indicates it is like i see it to be.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Long buffs only work when it has a "requires this ability to be on your bar" stipulation, because of the way the combat works, and how you have a "check all the boxes" list of buffs where if you get them all you win.

Otherwise you could swap out abilities to get loads of buffs, or buff outside of a trial to take the buffs in, or buff from your backbar and be a 1bar andy with 2 hour buffs.

I agree, I like long buffs, but ESO shot themselves in the foot with their balancing and combat system.

Kingslayer513

Tapio75 wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage shields, that could work on damage absorbed instead of short duration, buffs that could be long duration but give less buff, all kinds of things you need to apply again and again in rather rapid order.

I do sometimes like the feeling of getting fast oaced combat, but its pointless since almost nothing gives a challenge and furthermore, the playstyöle that makes you spam buttons in rapid order to keep things up, does not make very relaxing play at all.

I just wonder, because in many other games i play, people consider longer buffs, less rapid spamming and less button mashing in general as QoL improvment where as here, people call this "Reactive playing". From what i played the game, it is nothing to do with reactive play. Its just that you start the combat and then press many buttons in both action bars to keep all these buffs up and you are still basically invincible. Damage shield, just add to rotation to keep that shield up and take no damage at all, imbue weapon, just press that button before every light attack. HoT, just spam that regeneration in your rotation to keep it up with all other heals and so on. It takes no skill, but it just takes speed which i am good at, but when i play i want to relax. If i want to move my fingers in rapid order, i play guitar.

Honestly, your post is littered with the same old confrontational rhetoric that is used (and fails) in every post of this nature. Key examples: "it takes no skill", "nothing gives a challenge", "it's only speed/button mashing", and so on and so forth. All of it misses the mark and demonstrates general ignorance about the game.

The combat in ESO is not for players like you. Period. If you play to relax, quest, roleplay, etc. then the combat is basically irrelevant to you. The combat developers have explicitly said so, repeatedly. All of the combat designs are thinking towards both pvp and more challenging pve content such as vet dungeons and trials. And quite frankly, if you don't participate in that content then you will likely never understand why ESO's fast paced combat works so well. Sorry to lay it out on you like that, but it's the truth.

You disagree, that selecting a spammable to weave added with upkeep of buffs and damage shield is nothing more than muscle memory thing? If so, please explain the rotations that require something else than simple muscle memory?

I should have made the first post more clear though. It not all about just being fast button mashing. Button mashing for sake of it has no value and when it can all be done with muiscle memory and is mostly based on spammable, light/heavy attacks and upkeeping stuff, it not as much about the skill and knownledge than it is about memory.

Upkeepimg buffs is very nauseating for me. It just doing same stuff all day long as fast as one can do it plus the need to constantly change action bars to get everything is rather annoying mechanic and has veryy litle of relaxing value.

I do like situational spells and reactive gameplay though, but ESO does seem to have very litle of this whether it is PVE or PVP and one does not need to play lots of that content to know this, because forums and internet is full of information that indicates it is like i see it to be.

Go spend five minutes playing pvp and then tell me it's all muscle memory. Yes, I disagree with you.

AMeanOne

Easy solution, go play something you like instead

SeaGtGruff

My gameplay is usually pretty relaxing, and my builds are "carefully engineered" (yeah, right) to give just enough damage and defense so that PvE content is still challenging enough to be fun yet not overly difficult-- except for the content that is, which I must skip until I get help from someone else.

I seldom use LAWing and mashing buttons like crazy. Instead, I normally keep the MB down for heavy attacks (for heavier hits and to replenish M/H/S) and weave them with my skills, which I usually press at a more leisurely pace because heavy attacks take longer to weave with than if I'm ACing LAs.

jecks33

pvp is 100% situational and reactive gameplay and if you think to face vet trials, vma, vbrp, vdsa and dlc dungeons just doing your mechanic rotation without being reactive, you're wrong

ArchMikem

PvP.

Long durations made PvP easier. PvPers complained.