Patch Notes 6.0.4

BeefyMrTips

Should we take this as a sign that they have no intention of listening to the community?

Im used to seeing years of the community being split on whether changes are wanted or unwanted and that is pretty natural if you ask me. However, I think the majority if not all have clearly stated that there is something wrong here, right? The community is finally all in agreement that things need to change, especially with the Vampire, yet nothing is happening.

At this point, it’s not the community vs the community. It’s the community vs the devs.. in what world of business do you ever want this happening? You can’t please everybody, but surely not pleasing anybody is bad business.

The_Lex

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Should we take this as a sign that they have no intention of listening to the community?

The silence is your answer.

BohnT2

Paradisius

Personally I feel like they see it, but decide it doesnt line up with whatever they want for Vampire, so they ignored it. But Im sure that tune will change when mass amounts of people who either dont have PTS or dont use it, the people who saw the recent Vampire trailer and got hyped, actually go into fights and use it then wonder why they have a death recap on their screen. (Even better when those people blame healers, not knowing that Blood Frenzy cuts off outside healing. Something that the devs forgot to mention when going on about how it "Ticks all the boxes for a vampire")

BaiterOfZergs

The majority of the community doesn’t use the forums, so they’ll be blindsided by most changes.

Quite frankly, I have no idea what direction they’re trying to go with this patch in pve or pvp but at least we can now all get to be Indiana Jones.

Sandman929

I can't mount ever. They aren't listening to that from the community either. I guess being able to use my mount doesn't line up with what ZOS wants for Cyrodiil.

Sahidom

The_Lex wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Should we take this as a sign that they have no intention of listening to the community?

The silence is your answer.

They are social distancing from their player base. As many businesses experience, it also distances them from the wallet of their consumer audience.

Drdeath20

This is a few disspointing patches in a row. Next 1 better be a big 1. Readdress class skills, dots, ultimates.

Berek_Bloodfang

It's completely insane to think this is the direction they are going, how can they not "re-open group queuing for battlegrounds" when the latency/lag in Cyrodiil is literally unplayable?? We want to PvP together.... Come on!!!

It's 100% clear they are not reading these posts, these comments, these suggestions, these concerns...

Dracane

I have expected little and still receives less than I thought.

StamPlar_1976

They. Don't. Care. Those are the three words you need to get through your head. If it doesn't line up with their narrative, they won't change it no matter how much people may hate it. That is what I have learned from playing this game the last three years.

Shadowasrial

I’m not one to defend the devs, quite the opposite usually. However in this patch I must say that we are forgetting that they like other businesses are probably working at a much lower work capacity as they normally do. With limited manpower they can only change so much during the virus without risking months of a utterly broken game . I would expect there to be much more changes that we are hoping for next dlc assuming this virus is finally over.

BeefyMrTips

Shadowasrial wrote: »

I’m not one to defend the devs, quite the opposite usually. However in this patch I must say that we are forgetting that they like other businesses are probably working at a much lower work capacity as they normally do. With limited manpower they can only change so much during the virus without risking months of a utterly broken game . I would expect there to be much more changes that we are hoping for next dlc assuming this virus is finally over.

I agree and believe this to be a possibility. However, if that is the case, they need to be more transparent. I understand the need to only disseminate information as needed because sometimes too much info is a bad thing.

In this instance, the community, which is also affected by what is happening in the world, would probably accept that answer over silence. This game has become that much more important to individuals who are dependent on the social interactions here while forced to stay indoors. I would hope that the devs and entire ESO team would take that into consideration while keeping to themselves during a time when ESO may be the only solace in a trying period in a person’s life.

That may sound extreme but this game is the only outlet for many people. To be honest the only reason why I’m still playing is because I have made friends on here that only have this in their life and they are frustrated with so much of what is going on.

YandereGirlfriend

Shadowasrial wrote: »

I’m not one to defend the devs, quite the opposite usually. However in this patch I must say that we are forgetting that they like other businesses are probably working at a much lower work capacity as they normally do. With limited manpower they can only change so much during the virus without risking months of a utterly broken game . I would expect there to be much more changes that we are hoping for next dlc assuming this virus is finally over.

Specifically about the PTS it's not really a matter of manpower.

Tweaking the damage requirements of Roaring Opportunist is literally changing one unsigned integer in the item's code, aka it's beyond trivial... if they actually cared about addressing feedback, which, to be clear, they don't.

VoidCommander

I just wish the devs would actually try making a build using the sets and abilities coming out this patch. They could see for themselves half of the problems that people are having after just a few hours on the pts.

Vaoh

VoidCommander wrote: »

I just wish the devs would actually try making a build using the sets and abilities coming out this patch. They could see for themselves half of the problems that people are having after just a few hours on the pts.

Wdym.... they thoroughly test all new sets and report back outstanding results during fishing adventures.

Not sure why you think the Veteran Kyne’s Aegis perfected trial sets should be useful in all content. In fact it’s overpowered for AD main quest progression

kylewwefan

Drdeath20 wrote: »

This is a few disspointing patches in a row. Next 1 better be a big 1. Readdress class skills, dots, ultimates.

Where’ve you been this past year? They just balanced and addressed skills and dots. It was such a rollercoaster ride.

Did you hear about the off season PTS where they made light attacks do about 1/4 the damage they do now?

Just you wait and watch; know that’s coming back at some point.

XellJarmar

ZOS opened up the whole Greymoor chapter on PTS. Besides the rework for the werewolves and vampires, there are tons of things to adjust and test: the entire western Skyrim chapter, new antiquities system, etc. I know, that the most intriguing part of the upcoming chapter is nothing but monsters revamp, however, at the same time, I can somewhat understand that the devs' focus is mainly on the new gameplay features such as antiquities. (Though it does not excite me at all!) Yet, it is still disappointing that it seems that the devs' just ignored the community entirely regarding the yelling for the revisiting of the vampire reworks and the perfected version of the Arena weapons altogether.

anitajoneb17_ESO

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

At this point, it’s not the community vs the community. It’s the community vs the devs.. in what world of business do you ever want this happening? You can’t please everybody, but surely not pleasing anybody is bad business.

There's no such thing as "the community".
There's "the players".
Then there's what the players say, and there's what the players do. And what players say is more often than not totally inconsistent with what they do. Also, not everyone speaks, but everyone does things and makes choices.
ZOS are the only ones to know exactly what we do and don't do, and they're right, in my opinion, to wait and see what we (all players statistically speaking) do instead of taking as "true" what a very small portion of us (the forum writers) say. They can only take it as a potential qualitative explanation for the figures they (will) see.

TL/DR : you can't say "nobody's pleased". All you can say is "Most of the people who write on the forums aren't pleased". Which is entirely different.

Lughlongarm

Not sure if this is an issue of ignoring PTS feedback on the topic or just the lack of dev team ability to act upon it.

When they release a chapter their first polarity is the content, and to deliver all features in working, "good enough" state. Usually, polishing comes months after. Look at the Necromancer class for example, from last year's Chapter. It took one patch to fix the bashing Goliath, which was obviously broken OP, during the PTS cycle. It took almost 1 year to adjust Blastbones and other broken Necro skills. Look at WW as another example, Wolfhunter released almost 2 years ago, and only now it feels like WW revamp is more or less complete.

So ya, clearly vamp revamp is a very unpolished feature.

I should note that For some setups it is still a big upgrade compared to what we have on live(mainly mist form users).

Chrlynsch

kojou

I don't think the whole community is as united on the Vampire changes as you think they are. Is it exactly what I wanted? No. Is it a new and potentially interested play style? Yes, and I think we should give it a chance.

The 2 biggest things that I have a personal gripe about this patch are the changes to VAS Destro and the fact that Roaring Opportunist is the new magicka DPS set and it is so underwhelming. I am annoyed with this, but as far as previous releases go this is pretty minor and I can accept that they had more important things to address.

I also am not overly impressed with the Antiquities system, but I can mostly ignore that and just enjoy the new zone and new story.

BeefyMrTips

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

At this point, it’s not the community vs the community. It’s the community vs the devs.. in what world of business do you ever want this happening? You can’t please everybody, but surely not pleasing anybody is bad business.

There's no such thing as "the community".
There's "the players".
Then there's what the players say, and there's what the players do. And what players say is more often than not totally inconsistent with what they do. Also, not everyone speaks, but everyone does things and makes choices.
ZOS are the only ones to know exactly what we do and don't do, and they're right, in my opinion, to wait and see what we (all players statistically speaking) do instead of taking as "true" what a very small portion of us (the forum writers) say. They can only take it as a potential qualitative explanation for the figures they (will) see.

TL/DR : you can't say "nobody's pleased". All you can say is "Most of the people who write on the forums aren't pleased". Which is entirely different.

I could see how you are misunderstanding and would come to the incorrect conclusions that you addressed in your response.

One, this is a community, I’m not sure where you derived your definition but please understand that this term can absolutely be used to describe us. In this case, we are individuals with shared interests and goals.

Two, how does ZoS take a statistical representation of all the players in the game? How do they test to see what players will do or won’t do? I’m not mad at you, but you need to do more critical thinking. The main statistical representation available to ZoS that eludes to how players might respond is the sample set that comes from PTS and the Forums... if they made all their decisions based on data gathered a month or months after a Patch goes live, they would have never made it throughout the years.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not, but I assure you, we are a community as well as a valid representation of how other players will handle the changes that are made here.

BeefyMrTips

kojou wrote: »

I don't think the whole community is as united on the Vampire changes as you think they are. Is it exactly what I wanted? No. Is it a new and potentially interested play style? Yes, and I think we should give it a chance.

The 2 biggest things that I have a personal gripe about this patch are the changes to VAS Destro and the fact that Roaring Opportunist is the new magicka DPS set and it is so underwhelming. I am annoyed with this, but as far as previous releases go this is pretty minor and I can accept that they had more important things to address.

I also am not overly impressed with the Antiquities system, but I can mostly ignore that and just enjoy the new zone and new story.

I agree about vampire, not everyone is as concerned or cares specifically about that. I used it as an example to carry my point.

My main point is that there is an overall disappointment in this patch and it sucks the answer most of us have to accept is to “mostly ignore” and enjoy what we can.

anitajoneb17_ESO

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Two, how does ZoS take a statistical representation of all the players in the game? How do they test to see what players will do or won’t do?

PTS is for bug testing, not design testing.
ZOS does not know what we will and will not do, but they know what we do and don't do. From logs. And that's the closest you can get to "actual reality" of "the players".
If we end up massively (=statistically significantly) doing something that's against their plans (i.e. unsub, quit, not have vampire characters, stop running some type of content, etc... ) then they'll look at our feedback here in order to explain WHY we do this. And they'll potentially change something. But they're not going to change their design because a couple dozen people who mistakenly think they're everyone's voice said they didn't like something.
As to us being a community, we're just as much a community as "the French", "the Spanish", "the vietnamese", "The Jews", etc... are communities. There are things that puts them together (in our case : ESO) and makes them more likely to interact and join together. But as soon as one starts saying "The French are this and that", "The Jews do this and that", ""The Africans want this and that"... then we're automatically in the wrong. Nobody can speak for "other people" as a group. I could provide more vivid examples, especially concerning the "American Community"... but I'd be probably and rightly moderated for versing into real-life politics.

Firstmep

Dracane wrote: »

I have expected little and still receives less than I thought.

Honestly after last patch, when they didn't do any class changes, because of "performance" focused update, I expected at least a few changes, although they did say they were done with their audit.
Which is funny because we were promised reworks to base classes passive, to put them more in line with warden/necro, and never actually received it.
I'm sure glad my 0 dmg sun fire dot now lasts a flat 2 seconds longer, what a treat!

BeefyMrTips

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Two, how does ZoS take a statistical representation of all the players in the game? How do they test to see what players will do or won’t do?

PTS is for bug testing, not design testing.
ZOS does not know what we will and will not do, but they know what we do and don't do. From logs. And that's the closest you can get to "actual reality" of "the players".
If we end up massively (=statistically significantly) doing something that's against their plans (i.e. unsub, quit, not have vampire characters, stop running some type of content, etc... ) then they'll look at our feedback here in order to explain WHY we do this. And they'll potentially change something. But they're not going to change their design because a couple dozen people who mistakenly think they're everyone's voice said they didn't like something.
As to us being a community, we're just as much a community as "the French", "the Spanish", "the vietnamese", "The Jews", etc... are communities. There are things that puts them together (in our case : ESO) and makes them more likely to interact and join together. But as soon as one starts saying "The French are this and that", "The Jews do this and that", ""The Africans want this and that"... then we're automatically in the wrong. Nobody can speak for "other people" as a group. I could provide more vivid examples, especially concerning the "American Community"... but I'd be probably and rightly moderated for versing into real-life politics.

I get what you are saying, this is a small sample size to take from compared to the whole. I agree with that and they should not base their decision solely off of us. However, that does not make our feedback any less relevant, but rather a sign of what “may” come. No one can say with absolute certainty when it comes to the people and what they will do. However, something is wrong when they can’t even respond to the dozens of us.

As for your examples of community, I think it’s best we don’t go there.

Giljabrar

See you all in New World

nk125x

Giljabrar wrote: »

See you all in New World

Yep, pity it was delayed.

xaraan

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Should we take this as a sign that they have no intention of listening to the community?

Im used to seeing years of the community being split on whether changes are wanted or unwanted and that is pretty natural if you ask me. However, I think the majority if not all have clearly stated that there is something wrong here, right? The community is finally all in agreement that things need to change, especially with the Vampire, yet nothing is happening.

At this point, it’s not the community vs the community. It’s the community vs the devs.. in what world of business do you ever want this happening? You can’t please everybody, but surely not pleasing anybody is bad business.

30+ pages on two different threads about the MA/DSA weapon changes (whether you agree or not is irrelevant to this point) and they never responded at all. That tells you all you need to know about what they think of the community.

As for vampire I'm hoping that the working from home issue has slowed some changes and perhaps a few patches after the launch will be some additional polishing, but that's me being optimistic (which they've given me little reason to be). If that's the plan, they should tell their customers that.

TheHsN

Does not matter since still every body says i will buy Greymoor and i will keep my sub... If you keep doing that nothing is going to be change...This is a politics-business Type... They look numbers not words