So...Vampire is now a playstyle, and not a Passive, it seems.

Nova_J

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Or maybe people are unhappy with the rework because it turns vampires into some overly-specific, gimmicky skill line with unimpressive looking abilities (woo...Eviscerate spam...how thrilling...). Cutting down the line's flexibility to turn it into a lolDPSonly option? Harsh penalties that don't justify the mediocre abilities you get in return? Blood Scion looking like a generic-brand version of the Vampire Lord they knew everyone had been expecting?

No, the problem lies entirely with the 10% magicka/stamina regen being gone.

Lol exactly. People still so focused on that regen that they are forgetting the bigger picture.

barney2525

IMHO, they did push things too far. I can understand the idea that vampire wasn't really vampire because all players did was select it for the benefits. But then again, isn't that why specific character races are selected for specific builds? Majority of Orcs are Stam builds. Majority of High Elves are Magicka builds. There is no investment required in playing a racial ' style ' , so why suddenly is there a full time dedication to the vampire style?

Sure, it needed some adjustment. Being a vampire should mean something. But they could have done that by simply applying the crime tag to the issue, like they did with Necro, or something else similar in impact. And I have seen some of the videos. it looks like they overpowered some of the new skills - probably to keep some interest in players. If not, there would soon be 0 vampires in the game.

IMHO

MartiniDaniels

Nova_J wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

It seems to me that ZOS went out of their way to turn Vampire from being just a regen passive, to being an entire playstyle that you need to commit to and build for. The skill cost increase seems to be a way to encourage actually playing as a Vampire, rather than just getting a bite, putting two points into a passive and then ignoring everything else.

Naturally, the vast majority of the Vampire players, who were only Vampires for the cheap, easy min/max sustain passive (and the cheap easy damage reduction passive, for Tanks) are not pleased by this. I can see how they'd be upset with seemingly getting the easy sustain basically taken from them. They'll need to find other ways to make that up.

Personally, I am more interested in seeing how people will make the new Vampire work in all manners of content.

The reality is, most people who have Vampire characters only had them for the Regen and/or Undeath Passives. Not really interested in actually playing as a Vampire, just throwing a couple skill points for min/maxing. ZOS seems to be explicitly discouraging that with this new Vampire skill line. This sentiment seemingly even made it into quest dialogue for the new Vampire Intro quest, if what I am reading is correct.

People will complain for a bit. A LOT of people will cure their Vampires and write them off as pure trash because min/max. Some folks will make the new Vampire work with specific Vampire builds for all content. Maybe the new Vampire won't ever be allowed into Vet Trials or whatever. Maybe they will. We'll see.

In the long run, Vampire will have a significantly smaller, but significantly more devoted playerbase, imo.

When the new vamp changes drop it's going to be a [snip] show. The changes they made are a hot mess lol. I dont know why people are so happy with mediocrity, but they focused waaaaay to much on the "we dont want people playing for passives" narrative, You guys are acting like it wasn't a complete choice and was required to be vamped out lol. Most of the endgame players I know dont even use vampires, the ones that do only do it because they love vamps and think they are cool.
The new changes are going to make vamps so damn stifling, I dont like that they've traded build flexibility and diversity for this limited playstyle.
They might as well rename this into the new Bloodfiend skill line lol that's basically what vamps will be in Greymoore.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

My experience is absolutely the opposite. All "end game players", especially tanks, were vampires because every small piece of stats matters. And if you have fire boss it is not an issue for "end game" player to drop to stage1 which had no downsides other then increased consumption of food, which doesn't matter for "end game player". There was absolutely no single reason not to be a vampire.

All the [snip] is because almost every cookie-cutter build in this game was directly nerfed with vampire change.

[Minor edit for Bait.]

Glurin

barney2525 wrote: »

Sure, it needed some adjustment. Being a vampire should mean something. But they could have done that by simply applying the crime tag to the issue, like they did with Necro, or something else similar in impact.

Yeah, I don't see simply adding a crime tag to three skills that nobody ever used (let alone used in town) as solving anything. It's not exactly what I'd call "giving vampirism some meaning".

Nova_J

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

It seems to me that ZOS went out of their way to turn Vampire from being just a regen passive, to being an entire playstyle that you need to commit to and build for. The skill cost increase seems to be a way to encourage actually playing as a Vampire, rather than just getting a bite, putting two points into a passive and then ignoring everything else.

Naturally, the vast majority of the Vampire players, who were only Vampires for the cheap, easy min/max sustain passive (and the cheap easy damage reduction passive, for Tanks) are not pleased by this. I can see how they'd be upset with seemingly getting the easy sustain basically taken from them. They'll need to find other ways to make that up.

Personally, I am more interested in seeing how people will make the new Vampire work in all manners of content.

The reality is, most people who have Vampire characters only had them for the Regen and/or Undeath Passives. Not really interested in actually playing as a Vampire, just throwing a couple skill points for min/maxing. ZOS seems to be explicitly discouraging that with this new Vampire skill line. This sentiment seemingly even made it into quest dialogue for the new Vampire Intro quest, if what I am reading is correct.

People will complain for a bit. A LOT of people will cure their Vampires and write them off as pure trash because min/max. Some folks will make the new Vampire work with specific Vampire builds for all content. Maybe the new Vampire won't ever be allowed into Vet Trials or whatever. Maybe they will. We'll see.

In the long run, Vampire will have a significantly smaller, but significantly more devoted playerbase, imo.

When the new vamp changes drop it's going to be a [snip] show. The changes they made are a hot mess lol. I dont know why people are so happy with mediocrity, but they focused waaaaay to much on the "we dont want people playing for passives" narrative, You guys are acting like it wasn't a complete choice and was required to be vamped out lol. Most of the endgame players I know dont even use vampires, the ones that do only do it because they love vamps and think they are cool.
The new changes are going to make vamps so damn stifling, I dont like that they've traded build flexibility and diversity for this limited playstyle.
They might as well rename this into the new Bloodfiend skill line lol that's basically what vamps will be in Greymoore.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

My experience is absolutely the opposite. All "end game players", especially tanks, were vampires because every small piece of stats matters. And if you have fire boss it is not an issue for "end game" player to drop to stage1 which had no downsides other then increased consumption of food, which doesn't matter for "end game player". There was absolutely no single reason not to be a vampire.

All the [snip] is because almost every cookie-cutter build in this game was directly nerfed with vampire change.

[Minor edit for bait.]

Well I guess we just hang with different people then. Because I know for a fact that being a vamp is not a necessity to clear any content in the game. And while it had many benefits it wasn't any different than most stam users being orcs. Or many mag users being high elfs or bretons. The new vamp kit feels incomplete and lacking so much creativity. Add that to the fact that they treating this 1 skill line like it's a complete class when its absolutely not one. Smh I prefer the current vamp over being forced into being a berserk [snip]fiend.

MartiniDaniels

Nova_J wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

It seems to me that ZOS went out of their way to turn Vampire from being just a regen passive, to being an entire playstyle that you need to commit to and build for. The skill cost increase seems to be a way to encourage actually playing as a Vampire, rather than just getting a bite, putting two points into a passive and then ignoring everything else.

Naturally, the vast majority of the Vampire players, who were only Vampires for the cheap, easy min/max sustain passive (and the cheap easy damage reduction passive, for Tanks) are not pleased by this. I can see how they'd be upset with seemingly getting the easy sustain basically taken from them. They'll need to find other ways to make that up.

Personally, I am more interested in seeing how people will make the new Vampire work in all manners of content.

The reality is, most people who have Vampire characters only had them for the Regen and/or Undeath Passives. Not really interested in actually playing as a Vampire, just throwing a couple skill points for min/maxing. ZOS seems to be explicitly discouraging that with this new Vampire skill line. This sentiment seemingly even made it into quest dialogue for the new Vampire Intro quest, if what I am reading is correct.

People will complain for a bit. A LOT of people will cure their Vampires and write them off as pure trash because min/max. Some folks will make the new Vampire work with specific Vampire builds for all content. Maybe the new Vampire won't ever be allowed into Vet Trials or whatever. Maybe they will. We'll see.

In the long run, Vampire will have a significantly smaller, but significantly more devoted playerbase, imo.

When the new vamp changes drop it's going to be a [snip] show. The changes they made are a hot mess lol. I dont know why people are so happy with mediocrity, but they focused waaaaay to much on the "we dont want people playing for passives" narrative, You guys are acting like it wasn't a complete choice and was required to be vamped out lol. Most of the endgame players I know dont even use vampires, the ones that do only do it because they love vamps and think they are cool.
The new changes are going to make vamps so damn stifling, I dont like that they've traded build flexibility and diversity for this limited playstyle.
They might as well rename this into the new Bloodfiend skill line lol that's basically what vamps will be in Greymoore.

Edit for censor bypass.]

My experience is absolutely the opposite. All "end game players", especially tanks, were vampires because every small piece of stats matters. And if you have fire boss it is not an issue for "end game" player to drop to stage1 which had no downsides other then increased consumption of food, which doesn't matter for "end game player". There was absolutely no single reason not to be a vampire.

All the [snip] is because almost every cookie-cutter build in this game was directly nerfed with vampire change.

[Minor edit for Bait.]

Well I guess we just hang with different people then. Because I know for a fact that being a vamp is not a necessity to clear any content in the game. And while it had many benefits it wasn't any different than most stam users being orcs. Or many mag users being high elfs or bretons. The new vamp kit feels incomplete and lacking so much creativity. Add that to the fact that they treating this 1 skill line like it's a complete class when its absolutely not one. Smh I prefer the current vamp over being forced into being a berserk [snip]fiend.

Perfected gear is not necessary to clear any content.
Being an orc is not a necessity.
Improving armor to gold is not a necessity.
Optimized CP is not a necessity.
Running optimized group composition is not a necessity.

But somehow if you'll stack all those things and multiply them on critical damage and critical chance, difference in group dps will be staggering.

But I agree that is a bad move to turn vampire into pure pack of downsides in PVE outside of specialized builds, without option to sit at stage 1 or 0 with no benefits and no penalties.
I may even suggest that ZOS does this to have some money from CS vampirism. As for now when at least 50% of characters are vampires, it is 5 minutes deal to get a free bite.

Monte_Cristo

Why not go all the way and make vampire a class itself. When you contract vampirism, you lose the 3 class skill trees and gain 3 new vamp class ones. All class skillpoints being refunded.

Strider__Roshin

TheSeraphim wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

Vampire was always Magicka based tbh. that's not a major change.

It's always been Vamp = magicka, Werewolf = Stamina.

Is that why in Morrowind Vamparism increased your strength, dexterity, hand to hand, blunt weapon, heavy armor? Among other things?

Is it also why in Oblivion Vamparism increased your strength, speed, hand to hand, among other things?

Yeah but in Morrowind and Oblivion Nords were a melee DPS race, and Orcs were the tanky race. How did that lore consistency work out in ESO?

Grianasteri

Precisely so.

Almost everyone who was aware of the fact, chose to be a vampire for the simple benefit of the passive buffs. Thankfully, whatever else anyone may think about the changes, that is no longer the case.

If you want to be a vampire, you have to play as a vampire... similar to being a Werewolf. I think this is a far better approach than folk just getting a bite for passive buffs to regen and resistances.

I am really looking forward to actually playing as a vampire, all be it a day walking one!

Michae

I have one vampire character and it's only for rp reasons. I keep her well fed because I like the looks, I couldn't care less about some passives. I'm interested in new skills but I just hope the whole change won't mess up the looks of my character. I'm still not sure whether feeding will now make the character look good or monstrous.

Tammany

Passive regen boys riot is adorable.

Bucky_13

So, went on the pts, tried on my main PvP char who also is a vampire in Ravenwatch. Gonna keep it at stage 2. Never cared that much about the passive regen, the main reason I want vamp is for the sneak movement speed. But I'm also a stamblade sniper who likes to play it way too aggressive most of the time.

Not gonna use any vamp skills, but will benefit from sneak passive and the extra weapon damage which also works with cloak. The stage 4 passive for invisibility while running seems pointless.

While I don't play it myself, I'm really curious how much a stage 2 bomber will benefit. It seems to me the certain NB builds will have use of it at least. Whether or not these changes are good or bad, I'm not gonna have an opinion on, but it does seem to benefit me despite the skill cost increase.

Edit: Fun fact, when you have a bunch of "increase weapon damage by % like I do, the stage 2 passive ended up being 471 weapon damage increase for me, not 300. Gonna be interesting to see how it works if I add Malacath Ring as well do that build.

Eso101rus

As a player who has used vampire mainly for the passives, and mainly as a tank, here’s my thinking. Currently I use vampire on my tanks for the passive regen and the Undeath, increased fire damage is something I have to swallow but it’s a risk I’ve been taking as the bonuses have been worth it.

So they are taking away my 10% passive regens and hitting me with extra cost on all my skills? We don’t really need to get as far as the Undeath change do we. I’ve already started getting rid of vampire on all my characters, I don’t think vampire will have much place aside from specific vampire builds, which means Zos’s rework will reduce the amount of vampires we currently have in the game to a very niche few builds and RP’s.

I’m not sure if they can sell this as success, I’m disappointed but not surprised. Expect more drastic changes later in the year.