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Blood Frenzy needs to scale with Vampire stage's.

Nova_J
Nova_J
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I said this before and I'll say it again, Blood frenzy is a move that shouldn't even exist. Moves like this are incredibly hard to balance and often lead to nerfs of other things in the game. Either devs make it so the move is too too good and it becomes a mandatory bar slot, or make it so costly that it's useless. But it's obvious that they want to keep it so fine, here is a suggestion.

Instead of having the move scale through cost, have it scale through power. Reduce the amount of weapon and spell damage the move gives you at stage 1 and have it increase for every stage beyond that. That way you can reduce that ridiculous 20% interest every second to 5 or 10% at stage 4, but you still get the 900+ boost and cost reduction. And yes, because of this alot of people will run it at stage 1, but there are better ways to get 100 or 200 wpn and spell dmg than having to sacrifice health and not be healed by outside sources. But it still can remain an option. With these changes I also think that the fire damage taken should be increased back to 25% at stage 4, maybe even 30%.

Honestly they couldve taken this approach with the rest of the skills in the new line as well. They couldve had the drain morph that restores a sorry a$$ 5% stamina and have it return more for each stage you have. Or the morph of mist form that does damage, they could make it so the damage increases as your stages progress. This would reinforce the "conscious pick" mentality they are trying to push.

Do you guys think some variation of this could work? I'm open to further suggestions and thoughts.
  • usmcjdking
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    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.
    0331
    0602
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.

    The amount you need to invest into using blood frenzy at 20% per second is far too costly. You'll spend more time trying to heal yourself than actually doing damage, the only thing I could see it being used for is maybe a burst move or ult then immediately turn it back off.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Nova_J wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.

    The amount you need to invest into using blood frenzy at 20% per second is far too costly. You'll spend more time trying to heal yourself than actually doing damage, the only thing I could see it being used for is maybe a burst move or ult then immediately turn it back off.

    That's the design behind it and the intention.
    0331
    0602
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Nova_J wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.

    The amount you need to invest into using blood frenzy at 20% per second is far too costly. You'll spend more time trying to heal yourself than actually doing damage, the only thing I could see it being used for is maybe a burst move or ult then immediately turn it back off.

    That's the design behind it and the intention.

    But that is incredibly cheesy and brainless. You dont really need to manage anything because you arent keeping it toggled on. If that's what they wanted the move to be then there is literally no reason to have the move be a toggle and it should just be a fixed cost of health and you receive the boost for 3 seconds. Encouraging people to use rotations while it's on should be the desired goal, it actually promotes thoughtful gameplay that way. At 20% increase every second that's not possible.
  • Vevvev
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    I personally think a 10% cost per second is probably more manageable than 20% as it'll let you keep it on a bit longer so it doesn't feel like you heave to turn it off in the blink of an eye.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    I personally think a 10% cost per second is probably more manageable than 20% as it'll let you keep it on a bit longer so it doesn't feel like you heave to turn it off in the blink of an eye.

    That's what I think as well.
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Nova_J wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.

    The amount you need to invest into using blood frenzy at 20% per second is far too costly. You'll spend more time trying to heal yourself than actually doing damage, the only thing I could see it being used for is maybe a burst move or ult then immediately turn it back off.

    That's the design behind it and the intention.

    If that is so, then it fails at that, 1.4k health per second with a 20% cost increase per second, all for ~1k spell damage (assuming you even take simmering frenzy, which wont give you a heal at the end of the toggle) it seems like a waste of a skill slot if you can only have it on 10~20% of the time. Either lowering the cost per second or actually giving it a cost cap would be better and more manageable than what we have now. Because before it was manageable but extremely risky, now its so risky that the reward isnt worth it.
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Nova_J wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    I think the best thing to do is to leave the cost as is. It should be costly and dangerous to run. It should require you to make significant barspace and gearing sacrifices to run it.

    In turn it needs to better cover some of those gaps. Every class is capable of running Frenzy, permanently, with significant investment to HP and self healing in PVE, but the payoff is just too little to close that gap.

    The amount you need to invest into using blood frenzy at 20% per second is far too costly. You'll spend more time trying to heal yourself than actually doing damage, the only thing I could see it being used for is maybe a burst move or ult then immediately turn it back off.

    That's the design behind it and the intention.

    If that is so, then it fails at that, 1.4k health per second with a 20% cost increase per second, all for ~1k spell damage (assuming you even take simmering frenzy, which wont give you a heal at the end of the toggle) it seems like a waste of a skill slot if you can only have it on 10~20% of the time. Either lowering the cost per second or actually giving it a cost cap would be better and more manageable than what we have now. Because before it was manageable but extremely risky, now its so risky that the reward isnt worth it.

    Yea, I dont understand all these knee-jerk moves the devs make. Like they should have known these changes where too much.
  • Merca
    Merca
    This skill is not even suitable for RP. If I turn it on, the vampire should catch fire with bloody eye marks.
  • Sahidom
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    They effectively provided two toggle effects in the skill kit. One can be maintained almost indefinitely with Darloc vestments for some free steath major expedition movement. The toggle auto-ends when you cast any skill which makes Mist more versatile.

    Now, Blood Frenzy is a power boost skill. Similar to Overload except its not an ultimate. The pre 6.0.3 release at least made the skill usable on a broader scope than current version. Should the skill exist, I thought the skill was unique. With the price tag attached to using the skill outside macro usage, its too high.

    ANY EXPERT MACRO BUILDERS OUT THERE?

    Thats the two main toggles. One works fluid and the other requires a lot of focus and timing to use. Players have trouble getting light weaves in their parse rotation. Blood Frenzy will most likely be a shelved skill Ike the NB offerings. Between 20% damage to Fire and Fighter guild skills, being a vampire in PVP won't be forgiving, more or less, catching someone with Blood Frenzy toggled.

    Edited: if they scale it to Stages than 300 + ( Stage -1 × 100) and remove the cost increase. The cons to higher Stage vampire should offset the bonus - risk verse reward. The skill begins offering +300 to cap Scion ultimate +800 or non ultimate being +700 at Stage 4.
    Edited by Sahidom on May 18, 2020 11:05AM
  • DT-ARR
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    How about have it scale through cost AND power?
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    DT-ARR wrote: »
    How about have it scale through cost AND power?

    It would have the 5-10% health cost increase per 1.5 sec. That would be enough. Plus it already gets reduced cost from advancing the stages, 24% at stage 4.
  • Celestro
    Celestro
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    DT-ARR wrote: »
    How about have it scale through cost AND power?

    I thought something like this would be better the other day, coupled with the scaling of Vampire stages. Or at the very least the latter since then having access to it period through Stage 1 wouldn't be so iffy for everybody and their mom given the combat team's desired "dedication" to being a vampire.
    Edited by Celestro on May 18, 2020 9:32PM
  • VoidCommander
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    The current return for the specing required to sustain blood frenzy is far too low. I was able to parse an additional 5k on a 6 mil because I wasn’t using ONE healing dot to sustain myself during frenzy for a few seconds during spammable phase on a magcro.

    It could be fixed by increasing the initial damage value, but that would be unhealthy for pve since it would GREATLY discourage the use of healers. An infinitely more PRODUCTIVE solution would be to simply make healing from outside sources reduced by 80%, 70%, 60%, 50% based on vampire stage. Could have the percentages change either way with vamp stages depending on how zos would like to balance them. This also gives healers a more important role with actually healing instead of being the group support buff lackey.

    Does anyone agree that this would be the best course of action for this ability?
  • Nova_J
    Nova_J
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    The current return for the specing required to sustain blood frenzy is far too low. I was able to parse an additional 5k on a 6 mil because I wasn’t using ONE healing dot to sustain myself during frenzy for a few seconds during spammable phase on a magcro.

    It could be fixed by increasing the initial damage value, but that would be unhealthy for pve since it would GREATLY discourage the use of healers. An infinitely more PRODUCTIVE solution would be to simply make healing from outside sources reduced by 80%, 70%, 60%, 50% based on vampire stage. Could have the percentages change either way with vamp stages depending on how zos would like to balance them. This also gives healers a more important role with actually healing instead of being the group support buff lackey.

    Does anyone agree that this would be the best course of action for this ability?

    Even at 50% the amount of health a good healer can restore is massive, but it would be good to keep HoT's at bay. But again, at stage one the amount of damage given would still need to be decreased. Otherwise everyone would just stay at stage 1.
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