Magsorc, the over-performer that seems to only get stronger

Fawn4287

Everyone who has every played ESO PvP has realised that magsorc apart from the odd update here and there is generally in the top 2 for PvP solo classes and an excellent duelling class for a good reason,

1. It has without comparison the absolute best of the best sustain skill, with dark convert giving a substantial burst heal combined with 3600 mag for just over 2100 stam cost, its 1 second cast time is almost impossible to consistently interruptible. It allows the class to heal and effectively increase its regen by a ridiculous magnitude thanks to this one skill. Compare it to something like the templar circle, warden netch, nightblade siphoning strikes, dk battle roar, work out theoretically how much each can give over the course of 20 seconds. (Don’t worry its convert by more than a magnitude of 10 )

2. The best burst combo, magsorc somehow managed to be the only class in the game that gets both a hard hitting proc (crystal frag) and delayed damage (haunting curse) ability, with a reliable “Fire and forget” execute. Combine all of the above with meteor and good luck surviving, everything of which has a maximum 28m range.

3. The most over powered over performing ability in the game streak, if people thought templar was cheesy for doing nothing but jab jab jab, You haven’t seen a sorc use streak. Its the utility all wrapped In to one skill, AOE Hard CC defensive and offensive gap closer, it does it all, from stopping you from blocking met, exposing nightblades in cloak, CCing roley poley dodge builds, Chasing down the fastest orc warden with a bow, CCing that perm block tank, and thats just using it offensively. Every time you see someone about to start a combo, every time you get near execute, every time a melee build starts to get withIn melee range, every time your shields run out in a fight, every time you simply feel not too happy where you are simply streak. Its quite funny to think that build that most people don’t run major Expedition on, Is the fastest and most mobile in the game.

4. Ward stacking, the only proactive and most poorly balanced defensive option in the game, of which magsorc primarily uses 2. Wards are weird in that they can’t crit, however are completely immune to the worst non ulti applying debuff in the game, defile. On the back of a stamnecro meta with major defile debuffs abundant,with an upcoming nerf to healing received and recent heavy nerfs to DOTs it has shown that magsorc has never been in a better position defensively. In a 1v1 magsorc is already incredibly difficult to kill, with double or triple ward stacking effectively increasing the max health to make the build “burst proof“. Giving what is a build with 26k health 2 7-9k wards increasing its effective health to 40-45k, far more than any single players burst combo puts out, in the past dots were the Achilles heel of wards, costing far more to stack than the cost of reapplying dots. However those days are long gone with dots being near useless on everything apart from a mag dk (and maybe magden?) it seems that wards are the best defensive option for now.

A combination of all these things has made magsorc a strong class that is getting stronger, hopefully ZOS can see that with the nerfing of DOTs, the unnecessary buffing to streak, the buggy and laggy conditions that make convert incredibly difficult to interrupt with bash plus both a delayed and procced damage ability has made magsorc far too strong and to tune down this incredibly over performing class.


P.S. Don’t forget Stamcro!!!

Weesacs

Personally, if they just introduced a pet target toggle I'd be happy. I'm getting tired of trying to target them while they hide behind thier pets and engine guardians and nuke you down while attempting to target them.

I play on console and it's hard enough to target them when it's a frantic, dynamic fight with multiple opponents to choose from. It just gives them extra mitigation with something else for the rest of us to work around. (I'm including blastbones and other targetable pets in this as well 👍).

Firstmep

I'd rather they didnt touch magsorc anymore actually.

Everytime they attempt to nerf the class this forum explodes, and they end up giving the class some other buff, or buff some mechanic that most benefits them.

Chilly-McFreeze

While you're on your crusade against magsorcs and skills like streak and conversion, don't forget that stamsorcs have to share the class template with them. If you touch those skills you will inevitably nerf stamsorcs, who aren't at the top, as well.

katorga

Burst, CC, mobility, and heals are all you need. That is it. Sorc is the only mag class that has all the kit built in. That is why it always manages to stay competitive even after a long history of massive nerfs. (Stam builds get CC, mobility and heals completely independenly of their class kit, and that is why there are so many good stam classes.)

Sorc is the most basic class in the game. It has no fancy buffs/debuffs. It has no fancy passives, just damage increase and cost reduction. The class uses old, easy to get sets. Sorc burst is not tied to strange preconditions or actions. The rotation is so simple and set in stone that it becomes muscle memory and insanely easy. Streak literally is the best skill in the game. It is really hard to break the class.

Shields are garbage and have been for a long time. Heals and block/dodge are where it is at. I use Dark Deal on mine for more stam.

The trade off is the class is also insanely boring to play after few years. I have not materially changed my build in 4 years other than to retire dual wield.

ThePedge

All their damage can be done from 28m away.

Have two delayed damage abilities in Curse and Fury which they can stack with other damage such as a cfrag proc. One is an auto-execute.

If you get close they have the most overpowered ability in the game, Streak, to just get away again. They can streak indefinitely thanks to a powerful sustain skill.

Requires no thought on build. Damage and defense buffed by mag Magicka, and with their sustain skill barely need to run any flat sustain, so can pump up damage further.

Most powerful heal in the game which also is a DoT, lasts forever, blocks LoS.

SpiderCultist

if only magblades were a bit, just a little bit undertuned to magsorcs they would be quite strong but who hates magblades? Oh yeah, ZOS

and who hates magsorcs?

olsborg

Imagine making a nerfmagsorc thread when stamcro (and stamden) is in the spot they are atm.....

WrathOfInnos

Is this serious or a meme?

Karm1cOne

How do you nerf sorc without destroying the class? Shields are a joke, especially in any lag. If you nerf streak, they become ap pinatas due to low buff/debuff availability. If you nerf damage, they lose viability in pve.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Cerbolt

How about instead of nerfing magsorc, they buff underperforming classes instead?

Bergzorn

Weesacs wrote: »

I'm getting tired of trying to target them while they hide behind thier pets and engine guardians and nuke you down while attempting to target them

That's the only valid complaint so far here, IMO.

daemonor

So many salty magsorcs likewise not being good enough to time POTL into onslaught or dizzymed into BB onslaught, because you know, you actually have to get into meele range at least to do that and be aware of positioning. So they defend the only class theyre remotely competetive on. Guess it took you 3 years to master the curse>frag>execute combo and to press streak/darkdeal if that failed. Oh wait theres even a more advanced combo of meteor and streaking on top and moving around your zoo!

katorga

Karm1cOne wrote: »

How do you nerf sorc without destroying the class? Shields are a joke, especially in any lag. If you nerf streak, they become ap pinatas due to low buff/debuff availability. If you nerf damage, they lose viability in pve.

As I see it, sorcs are the best potato mashers. And potatoes beg for nerfs.

The class is so basic, so minimalist it is practically nerf proof and adjusts to any meta. It is a tricky class though. MalcolM can just destroy people patch after patch with just alfiq/Brightthroats/Bloodspawn. I try that and get wrecked more often than not.

It is funny how having a basic, complete kit is so effective. On paper my magcro has everything, massive burst, mountains of mitigation, major vulnerability. Stuff sorc's can only dream about. But the lack of an instant CC tool like streak wrecks the class.

AMeanOne

Sorc is the best mag solo class, but it's still below other stam classes in pecking order. Yes they have some easy to line up burst, but it's just as easy to avoid it. Next patch they will be stronger due to the healing nerf, but I couldn't imagine seriously complaining about them right now.

MartiniDaniels

Firstmep wrote: »

I'd rather they didnt touch magsorc anymore actually.

Everytime they attempt to nerf the class this forum explodes, and they end up giving the class some other buff, or buff some mechanic that most benefits them.

This. When last time magsorc was heavily "nerfed" (U23), a lot of people I know just stopped playing even before patch landed on live - despite fact that there were already new tricks with buffed Streak. And they returned only when ZOS quietly buffed magsorc back.
Good 40% of player base are magsorc mains, and even if ZOS tried to move them to play magplar, it doesn't worked out.

Only way to fix balance is to provide more effective tools instead of nerfing all those few effective tools which remained (i.e magsorc toolkit and combos with dizzy/jabs).

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have removed and edited some posts for Baiting. Please keep all discussions civil, constructive, and within the rules, which can be reviewed here.

Regards,
Connor

Atherakhia

While I agree that Mag Sorc is over performing, I'm not sure it needs as much attention as people claim.

The burst it's capable of is powerful, but not that large an outlier. The larger problem with their burst is the pre-cast execute in my opinion. So if we wanted to take a serious look at Mag Sorc damage, Mage's Fury is likely where it needs to be. I'm not sure how you'd tone it down without removing the skill entirely though. Just make it do more damage on targets below like a normal execute seems the most reasonable, but I'm not sure the skill even needs to exist in that situation and I'd be curious if people would even bother using it anymore.

The only other area Mag Sorcs need some attention is Bolt Escape. It is an overperforming skill and is easily abused with no real detriment to mag sorcs. Only stam sorcs really suffer from the added cost. No matter what, the damage on this skill needs to be removed. This skill simply does too much. Make it a movement skill and call it a day. That said, that is likely still not enough to reign this skill in. Assuming the goal is to never make a stamina morph so StamSorcs can use this skill, I think the best way to discourage repetetive use for this skill is to attach the spell cost modifier to ALL magicka abilities (only magicka, not stam) and not just the cost of this ability.

Even if you made these changes, the class would still be quite powerful in my opinion. But at least it would be a far better baseline to try and adjust other classes up to. The last thing we want is to see ZOS nerf Mag Sorcs (And MagPlars) down to MagBlade and MagDK levels.

Chilly-McFreeze

Atherakhia wrote: »

I think the best way to discourage repetetive use for this skill is to attach the spell cost modifier to ALL magicka abilities (only magicka, not stam) and not just the cost of this ability.

What? Every spell should cost 33% more for 4 seconds after I cast streak once? How to kill a skill 101.

Kaysha

Atherakhia wrote: »

While I agree that Mag Sorc is over performing, I'm not sure it needs as much attention as people claim.

The burst it's capable of is powerful, but not that large an outlier. The larger problem with their burst is the pre-cast execute in my opinion. So if we wanted to take a serious look at Mag Sorc damage, Mage's Fury is likely where it needs to be. I'm not sure how you'd tone it down without removing the skill entirely though. Just make it do more damage on targets below like a normal execute seems the most reasonable, but I'm not sure the skill even needs to exist in that situation and I'd be curious if people would even bother using it anymore.

The only other area Mag Sorcs need some attention is Bolt Escape. It is an overperforming skill and is easily abused with no real detriment to mag sorcs. Only stam sorcs really suffer from the added cost. No matter what, the damage on this skill needs to be removed. This skill simply does too much. Make it a movement skill and call it a day. That said, that is likely still not enough to reign this skill in. Assuming the goal is to never make a stamina morph so StamSorcs can use this skill, I think the best way to discourage repetetive use for this skill is to attach the spell cost modifier to ALL magicka abilities (only magicka, not stam) and not just the cost of this ability.

Even if you made these changes, the class would still be quite powerful in my opinion. But at least it would be a far better baseline to try and adjust other classes up to. The last thing we want is to see ZOS nerf Mag Sorcs (And MagPlars) down to MagBlade and MagDK levels.

Please don't put magblade and magdk on the same level. thx

oxygen_thief

do you have any other theme for discussion instead of nerfing everything in this game?
also id like to see a video how your op magsorc wipes out high ranked players in battlegrounds as a proof to your words.
ps you should learn to play your squishy ganking stamnb because its the only build which can be killed by one op curse-streak-frag combo

SebDeTyra

oxygen_thief wrote: »

do you have any other theme for discussion instead of nerfing everything in this game?
also id like to see a video how your op magsorc wipes out high ranked players in battlegrounds as a proof to your words.
ps you should learn to play your squishy ganking stamnb because its the only build which can be killed by one op curse-streak-frag combo

Weirdly enough, magsorcs are the class i find easiest to kill on my stamblade if i get the jump on them. Anyway yeah streak shouldn't be unblockable and it should cost more.

WoppaBoem

Weesacs wrote: »

Personally, if they just introduced a pet target toggle I'd be happy. I'm getting tired of trying to target them while they hide behind thier pets and engine guardians and nuke you down while attempting to target them.

I play on console and it's hard enough to target them when it's a frantic, dynamic fight with multiple opponents to choose from. It just gives them extra mitigation with something else for the rest of us to work around. (I'm including blastbones and other targetable pets in this as well 👍).

This and many times I fight 1v1 sorcs after getting them in execute range number 3 and the streak I walk away. Give the class love it is well designed and not a nightmare anymore atm, but pets that soack up damage and streak are just not fun to play against so I dont even bother with it.

StarOfElyon

Make streak blockable.

Cronopoly

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Snip - the recent heavy nerfs to DOTs it has shown that magsorc has never been in a better position defensively.

Are you new? Sorcs, of which many of us have played since launch have had a much better Defensive kit in the past. Zos has nerfed other classes wholesale to sell DLC classes. Some Sorc abilities may stand out to you, of course, due to these Nerfs to other base classes, but Sorcs got hammered too. They are still in a decent spot after much Painful wrangling.

Some other classes were virtually gutted like NB's that only have a single purpose. Sniping...well crafting/gathering.

shrekt4303

Streak needs to be blockable. Auto execute needs to be adjusted. That's it.

Fawn4287

Magsorc spamming streak versing a pure melee build is the same as a dk spamming old wings versing a magblade or magsorc, literally 0 counter to it

Giljabrar

olsborg wrote: »

Imagine making a nerfmagsorc thread when stamcro (and stamden) is in the spot they are atm.....

For real. This is laughable

Crixus8000

Atherakhia wrote: »

I think the best way to discourage repetetive use for this skill is to attach the spell cost modifier to ALL magicka abilities (only magicka, not stam) and not just the cost of this ability.

This is a bad idea. It would make both stamsorc and magsorc unplayable, since stamsorc uses mag abilities too, like dark deal.

Lord-Otto

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Magsorc spamming streak versing a pure melee build is the same as a dk spamming old wings versing a magblade or magsorc, literally 0 counter to it

Gapclosers?

MartiniDaniels

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Magsorc spamming streak versing a pure melee build is the same as a dk spamming old wings versing a magblade or magsorc, literally 0 counter to it

Gapclosers?

Give me a gapcloser with unblockable stun, and I'll agree with you...

Oh, wait...