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Mist Form must become alternate to Blocking. This is the only fix.
Yeah, I said it. Something has to be done. Something has to change. I think Mist Form and that Frenzy are the reasons for imposing those whopping cost increases on regular abilities, and yeah, though I may agree with this - albeit with a less punishing curve - let's make the vampires something that actually gives players reasons to be that.
Now I understand that Zenimax loves lycans. You've seen the movies and you decided to make the vampire less attractive, but make people somehow get them. And it was fine for years
to push them in stage 4, take 75% of health regen, give them 10% magicka regen, and be done with it.
Now, as the vampire is actually taken a look at, with Greymoor, think it's our chance to requests some real fixes.
I don't know who had the wonderful idea to make NPCs interrupt Mist Form.
Ok, Mist Form is powerful, maybe it's OP, but it also is very costly, and some of us are ready to pay the bill. But the product has to be functional.
So first of all, uninterruptible Mist Form. Can't just re-enter Mist Form every few seconds in a boss fight. Or fight with Scaled Court Zombies.
As a tank, I just keep blocking. Nothing pushes me out of block. Feels reasonable that nothing should push me out of Mist Form.
I was pointed this comment as one of the best fixes for Mist Form.
What's the catch ?
The catch is that it doesn't need an alternate set of enchanted jewels to switch from a functional lowered-cost Mist Form to a functional lowered-cost Blocking.
Given that Mist Form is broken by intent, it can't be used for it's main function - to block damage. Therefore as a tank, going to dungeons requires regular, functional Blocking,
while going for PvP might be more advantageous to have Mist Form. This means constantly switching jewels. A DD probably wouldn't need either.
Now if Mist Form becomes an alternative to Blocking, as proposed in that comment, then it won't be possible to block with anything else, such as with a shield or a staff.
So let's say that Mist Form becomes active. When toggled on, it will convert blocking to Mist Form. And it can open another discussion about what skills could be used. Let's say vampire skills.
Toggled off, you block with what you have in your hands and can still use weapon skills.
After Mist Form is morphed, the morph will behave the same way. Toggled on, will tell that Blocking becomes either Ellusive Mist or Blood Mist.
Where does the vampire stage comes in ?
The cost reduction should then apply to blocking with Mist Form as vampire stage progresses.
Alternatively, increase the block cost to blocking with a weapon as vampire stage progresses.
I see there is a lot of opposition to the cost increase for non-vampire abilities and I am inclined too to say that it's excessive, but I understand that it has to be some trade-off.
For my part, I would have no trouble to accept the trade off as long as Mist Form works. After all, two of the 5 skills on the bar would be at low cost - the Vampiric Drain which is a must have,
emergency heal, and the Mist Form.
LATER EDIT: Eviscerate can become a taunt. So actually Vampire can be treated as a weapon skill line, just that you become the weapon yourself.
Edited by fxeconomisteb17_ESO on May 10, 2020 1:51AM Now I understand that Zenimax loves lycans. You've seen the movies and you decided to make the vampire less attractive, but make people somehow get them. And it was fine for years
to push them in stage 4, take 75% of health regen, give them 10% magicka regen, and be done with it.
Now, as the vampire is actually taken a look at, with Greymoor, think it's our chance to requests some real fixes.
I don't know who had the wonderful idea to make NPCs interrupt Mist Form.
Ok, Mist Form is powerful, maybe it's OP, but it also is very costly, and some of us are ready to pay the bill. But the product has to be functional.
So first of all, uninterruptible Mist Form. Can't just re-enter Mist Form every few seconds in a boss fight. Or fight with Scaled Court Zombies.
As a tank, I just keep blocking. Nothing pushes me out of block. Feels reasonable that nothing should push me out of Mist Form.
I was pointed this comment as one of the best fixes for Mist Form.
What's the catch ?
The catch is that it doesn't need an alternate set of enchanted jewels to switch from a functional lowered-cost Mist Form to a functional lowered-cost Blocking.
Given that Mist Form is broken by intent, it can't be used for it's main function - to block damage. Therefore as a tank, going to dungeons requires regular, functional Blocking,
while going for PvP might be more advantageous to have Mist Form. This means constantly switching jewels. A DD probably wouldn't need either.
Now if Mist Form becomes an alternative to Blocking, as proposed in that comment, then it won't be possible to block with anything else, such as with a shield or a staff.
So let's say that Mist Form becomes active. When toggled on, it will convert blocking to Mist Form. And it can open another discussion about what skills could be used. Let's say vampire skills.
Toggled off, you block with what you have in your hands and can still use weapon skills.
After Mist Form is morphed, the morph will behave the same way. Toggled on, will tell that Blocking becomes either Ellusive Mist or Blood Mist.
Where does the vampire stage comes in ?
The cost reduction should then apply to blocking with Mist Form as vampire stage progresses.
Alternatively, increase the block cost to blocking with a weapon as vampire stage progresses.
I see there is a lot of opposition to the cost increase for non-vampire abilities and I am inclined too to say that it's excessive, but I understand that it has to be some trade-off.
For my part, I would have no trouble to accept the trade off as long as Mist Form works. After all, two of the 5 skills on the bar would be at low cost - the Vampiric Drain which is a must have,
emergency heal, and the Mist Form.
LATER EDIT: Eviscerate can become a taunt. So actually Vampire can be treated as a weapon skill line, just that you become the weapon yourself.
"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...
1
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.
Not all NPCs do that. But some do. For instance Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers.
It has several consequences. First you're not exactly CC immune. Then, you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person. At that moment some other damage may follow, and you don't realize you're not tanking. And then it has to be re-cast, unlike to regular blocking.Edited by fxeconomisteb17_ESO on May 10, 2020 12:21AM"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
solasub✭✭✭✭✭Are you REALLY asking a change because of "Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers" ?!?!?
Tick Tock Tormentor• Gryphon Heart • Immortal Redeemer • Extinguisher of Flames • Dro-m'Athra Destroyer • Shiel of the North
PVP Alpha Squad
PVE : Alpha Crew Guild leader / Easy Peasy Officer3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.
Not all NPCs do that. But some do. For instance Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers.
It has several consequences. First you're not exactly CC immune. Then, you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person. At that moment some other damage may follow, and you don't realize you're not tanking. And then it has to be re-cast, unlike to regular blocking.
If it’s taking you out it might be part of a scripted ability so would bypass block too. I haven’t tested it so am not sure. In a lot of ways mist form is better than block because it mitigates unblockable attacks, especially now that it’s off GCD.Edited by Iskiab on May 10, 2020 1:06AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What needs to be fixed is that Mistform will only cost 300 magicka per second for Templars.
Could we disable all forms of magicka restoration while it is active? This ability will make this class even more braindead easy mode next patch. Right now at least you pay the full up front price for Mistform.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
Are you REALLY asking a change because of "Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers" ?!?!?
If it's these, can be others too. Means it's broken. But also because I don't wanna be changing jewelry all the time.Edited by fxeconomisteb17_ESO on May 10, 2020 1:34AM"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
What needs to be fixed is that Mistform will only cost 300 magicka per second for Templars.
Could we disable all forms of magicka restoration while it is active? This ability will make this class even more braindead easy mode next patch. Right now at least you pay the full up front price for Mistform.
Why would you do that ? People giving up 5 armor pieces for some magicka restoration with a set and you wanna kill it ?
It's an RPG. There are options and options. You can choose not to restore magicka - and have a more offensive set - or you can choose to restore it, with a support set. Plus I remember ever using it in the current form. It has a big label on it "Don't use this"!Edited by fxeconomisteb17_ESO on May 10, 2020 1:46AM"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.
Not all NPCs do that. But some do. For instance Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers.
It has several consequences. First you're not exactly CC immune. Then, you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person. At that moment some other damage may follow, and you don't realize you're not tanking. And then it has to be re-cast, unlike to regular blocking.
If it’s taking you out it might be part of a scripted ability so would bypass block too. I haven’t tested it so am not sure. In a lot of ways mist form is better than block because it mitigates unblockable attacks, especially now that it’s off GCD.
Don't know what GCD is...
Don't remember doing Wayrest Sewers recently, but Scaled Court Zombies don't interrupt Block...
Now, of course Mist Form has to be better than regular block.
Why ?
Why become a vampire ? Just to burden yourself ?
We pay for this with ALL health regen
We pay for this with 25% extra fire damage
And a 40% increase cost on all other abilities.
For these, that Mist Form gotta be really good.
Edited by fxeconomisteb17_ESO on May 10, 2020 1:43AM"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
Also, if this becomes Blocking 2.0, then probably Eviscerate could become a taunt."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »
Why become a vampire ? Just to burden yourself ?
We pay for this with ALL health regen
We pay for this with 25% extra fire damage
And a 40% increase cost on all other abilities.
For these, that Mist Form gotta be really good.
Got two of the numbers wrong their friend. Its actually 20% fire damage and 20% increase on non-vampire abilities.
25% fire damage is what its like on live and the 40% is actually a 40% decrease to vampire costs.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »...you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person.
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?1 -
fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »
Why become a vampire ? Just to burden yourself ?
We pay for this with ALL health regen
We pay for this with 25% extra fire damage
And a 40% increase cost on all other abilities.
For these, that Mist Form gotta be really good.
Got two of the numbers wrong their friend. Its actually 20% fire damage and 20% increase on non-vampire abilities.
25% fire damage is what its like on live and the 40% is actually a 40% decrease to vampire costs.
Good."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
starkerealm wrote: »fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »...you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person.
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?
I don't know, I like to actually be there. My first Elder Scrolls game was Oblivion, and that came after I played Dark Messiah Might and Magic. I like to actually be doing stuff rather than telling the toon on the screen what to do. I sometimes go in 3rd person, like in hard dungeons, or in PVP, but these are quite rare occasions."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?
If you have a personality equipped while in 1st person it'll mess up the furniture you place while in first person because your head will move around. Because of this I don't even use it there.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?
If you have a personality equipped while in 1st person it'll mess up the furniture you place while in first person because your head will move around. Because of this I don't even use it there.
Wow, never noticed that. To be fair, most of my characters use Brassy Assassin, and that one doesn't have that behavior.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?
If you have a personality equipped while in 1st person it'll mess up the furniture you place while in first person because your head will move around. Because of this I don't even use it there.
Wow, never noticed that. To be fair, most of my characters use Brassy Assassin, and that one doesn't have that behavior.
It does. And that's why I turn personality off when placing furniture. Check it out for yourself. Move the item in first person. Your character will do a gesture eventually and the item will move with it. This'll mess up placement.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Why would anyone be in first person outside of the housing interface?
If you have a personality equipped while in 1st person it'll mess up the furniture you place while in first person because your head will move around. Because of this I don't even use it there.
Wow, never noticed that. To be fair, most of my characters use Brassy Assassin, and that one doesn't have that behavior.
It does. And that's why I turn personality off when placing furniture. Check it out for yourself. Move the item in first person. Your character will do a gesture eventually and the item will move with it. This'll mess up placement.
Yeah, I believe you, I just wonder which ones have that behavior.0 -
fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.
Not all NPCs do that. But some do. For instance Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers.
It has several consequences. First you're not exactly CC immune. Then, you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person. At that moment some other damage may follow, and you don't realize you're not tanking. And then it has to be re-cast, unlike to regular blocking.
If it’s taking you out it might be part of a scripted ability so would bypass block too. I haven’t tested it so am not sure. In a lot of ways mist form is better than block because it mitigates unblockable attacks, especially now that it’s off GCD.
Today I did Wayrest Sewers I as tank, and guess what, Inspector Garron doesn't pull me out of block.
I don't know, I'm just sick of this game Zenimax is playing since the beginning with vampire players. The deception has to stop and something really good has to come."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »So NPCs hitting you takes you out of mist form? I don’t understand what you mean.
Not all NPCs do that. But some do. For instance Scaled Court Zombies in Skyreach Catacombs or Inspector Garron in Wayrest Sewers.
It has several consequences. First you're not exactly CC immune. Then, you may not be aware that you're out of it, if you're in 1st person. At that moment some other damage may follow, and you don't realize you're not tanking. And then it has to be re-cast, unlike to regular blocking.
If it’s taking you out it might be part of a scripted ability so would bypass block too. I haven’t tested it so am not sure. In a lot of ways mist form is better than block because it mitigates unblockable attacks, especially now that it’s off GCD.
Don't know what GCD is...
Don't remember doing Wayrest Sewers recently, but Scaled Court Zombies don't interrupt Block...
Now, of course Mist Form has to be better than regular block.
Why ?
Why become a vampire ? Just to burden yourself ?
We pay for this with ALL health regen
We pay for this with 25% extra fire damage
And a 40% increase cost on all other abilities.
For these, that Mist Form gotta be really good.
We pay for this with ALL health regen- Don't need to go stage 4 unless you want to, arguably stage 3 is the most you can go and still get awesome passives
- Health Regen is widely seen as the most useless stat bonus unless you heavily invest in to it via troll king, pots, sorc/nb, gold food, sets, etc. You get about 500-700 base regen which is a 250-350 heal per second that can be reduced by major/minor defile and cp to practically nothing.
- Active burst healing trumps passive heal over time any day.
We pay for this with 25% extra fire damage- You don't. It's 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% for all the stages on PTS. Once again, Stage 3 as a true vampire is a must, not stage 4.
- Fire Damage is abundant, but it's also 1/8th of all the elements available in the game. You really only need to worry about Magicka DK's that have almost every ability in their tool kit as fire and even then, the fire damage taken is reduced vs live.
- Undeath for Stage 3 is VERY strong, much stronger than live, % based mitigation is king, nothing counters or penetrates it and it's completely passive for vampires. Instead of scaling from 50-0% hp, it scales from 100-0% hp meaning your going to have -16.5% damage taken at 50% hp as an example where you had 0% on live under the same circumstances. -24.75% damage taken at 25% hp on PTS, where you only had -16.5% on live. Fire damage should not be a concern for you when you have this passive, especially since you're straight up taking less damage from every other source. Stamina builds never use fire, but they occasionally use Dawnbreaker. Vampires should be Tanky AF, as long as you can mitigate the health costs of some of the abiliites.
And a 40% increase cost on all other abilities.- -40% on stage 4 for Vampire abilities and +20% for other abilities. Got them mixed up.
- If you have even 1/3 of your ability cost come from vampire based abilities, than you break even theoretically.
- Lets say your drain is 2000 before cost decreases with only regular abilities. 5 Light armor will make this 1800 cost.
Now lets assume you use 1/3 as vampire cost on stage 4.
2000/3 = 666.66
Vampire = 666.66 * .9 * .6 = 360
Regular = 1333.32 * .9 * 1.2 = 1440
Total = 1440 + 360 = 1800
Well would you look at that. Exact same cost at 1800 cost without vampire cost increases. This is simple math, it gets more complicated when you think about Health cost as a resource vs Resource cost if your using the Vampire spammable. Spammables can already take up around 40-50% of your drain, now cosider half of your 1800 resource drain is completely nullified.
- Lets say your drain is 2000 before cost decreases with only regular abilities. 5 Light armor will make this 1800 cost.
There is so many ways to look at it. If you can build yourself properly to utilize the vampire passives and abilities efficiently, you can get much better sustain and survivability than you can as a human, but it requires you to invest into actually being a vampire fully. Didn't even touch on the +300 damage after mist form/stealth, decreased run cost and sneak speed or the sprint into stealth. If your a stage 4 vampire using the vampire ultimate, it won't matter to you that your regular ultimate cost increased, in fact, it makes the vamp ult dirt cheap with -40% and the ultimate gives you +15% health steal while also allowing you to have 32-40k health in pvp in a damage build with undeath activating even earlier at higher health making you just as unkillable as the Goliath form with high AF uptime and increased damage output. Even more unkillable if you go for the morph that removes the negatives of stages.
People lack imagination and only focus on the negatives, just wait till people really build for vampires and you'll see what they're capable of. Still think some of the abilities need a great deal of work though and I don't agree with wasting a new skill slot on a toggle damage ability. Pretty lame design that will destroy pve and make healers even more obsolete while also being a noob trap.1 -
Merca✭In my opinion, the shape of the fog is now much better than blocking. You are more mobile. This can be checked by alternating the shape of the fog and blocking. If there are many opponents, endurance will end very quickly when blocked.0
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In my opinion, the shape of the fog is now much better than blocking. You are more mobile. This can be checked by alternating the shape of the fog and blocking. If there are many opponents, endurance will end very quickly when blocked.
Yes, the magicka cost is fixed regardless of numbers of attacks endured. This is one advantage."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0