Roaring Opportunist Test results:

VoidCommander

Roaring Opportunist: It doesn't ever increase the duration no matter how much damage is done.

Using maximum critical change, damage, heavy attack cp damage increase, direct damage cp increase, inferno staff heavy attacks, maelstrom staff with wall of elements, the knight-slayer set for +8000 heavy attack damage, and the dragonknight's "Molten armaments".

The maximum damage from a single heavy attack is only 36k. Extra damage effects from things like knight-slayer or infallible ether don't actually add to the heavy attack's specific damage value.

On top of this, the set is supposed to be a lowest value of 5 seconds for it's duration, but even doing 36k heavy attacks still results in a 5 second duration. Either this is a bug, or it is expected of the player to deal 48k damage with a SINGLE heavy attack to get just ONE extra second of duration.

Assuming that it is just a bug, and that I don't have to deal 96,000 damage with one heavy attack to maximize this set, I still think the 8000 damage per second is still much too high. You can keep this set out of reach of healers by making it as low as 5000 damage per EXTRA second. While a healer won't be pulling anywhere near 35k on a single heavy attack, this is at least possible for a magicka dps. This also allows for magicka dps to actually run this set to its full potentialand while still needing them to completely spec their race, class, secondary armor set, and loading up their front bar with mages guild abilities just to use it properly.

In summary, Roaring Opportunist is useless in its current form due to this bug/mistake.

Danksta

Knight Slayer seems like a bad choice since it's oblivion damage so can't be buffed.

actosh

I did tests with a friend on the 3 mill dummy. (link to cr pictures later as I sit in the garden right now).

Best result with dk healer wearing zen|ro was 49% major slayer with every heavy critting. Average on dk healer uptime was around 33-38%.

All other classes have been around 24-28% max.

For this test on the 3 mill dummy I mimic the other healer with infused shock enchanted lightning staff. Charged front bar.

Pics soon. We redo the test again with all classes next week. Maybe with writeup.

VoidCommander

actosh wrote: »

I did tests with a friend on the 3 mill dummy.
Best result with dk healer wearing zen|ro was 49% major slayer with every heavy critting. Average on dk healer uptime was around 33-38%.

All other classes have been around 24-28% max.

For this test on the 3 mill dummy I mimic the other healer with infused shock enchanted lightning staff. Charged front bar.

Thanks for sharing your results. I also tried using zen, but I decided to opt for a front bar fully loaded with mages guild abilities to try and boost the heavy attack damage. It still seems like it would be very detrimental for a healer to try and run this set though.

actosh

Not a full healer anymore. Combat Prayer, springs maybe orbs are slotted. Rest is full dmg spec as expected with weird cp distribution and a tracker to weave a heavy in time for less wasted seconds.

Healer did around 40k dps with that spec.

Still not on my Pc for screens as I been doing some Rl Housing

AgaTheGreat

So you say to effectively use this set you need add-ons on top of that, @actosh ?

actosh

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

So you say to effectively use this set you need add-ons on top of that, @actosh ?

I´m pretty confident that some console guys can make it work on a rly high level without any form of addon since u cant use those.

U wont need them to effectively use the set, but the basic´s in our test was the following, u keep your dots up for zen (the typical 4) do the usual healing *** (combat prayer/healingcircle) and then heavy attack.

For the test to see what is the maximum achieveable uptime the other player used a cooldowntracker to charge the heavy when there´s still 2 secs left on the cooldown.

ZOS Design to tell via particle effects when this or that buff/cd/whaever ends, just dont work the way they imagined.

So my guess would be for now that for the average console player the set isnt useable to it full or almost full potential (hopefully i can be proven wrong here ^^).

Even on Pc it wont work fo most groups since the RO/ZEN guy isnt rly doing that much healing.
So the average progression group wont see the big of an effect as a Group that is on top of the leaderboards.

actosh

Here are the screens.

What we did for the test was the following.

Target 3Mill Dummy
We attacked raidatro for getting the buffs
Waited till out of combat and then started on the 3Mill Dummy.

Healer1: RO/ZEN/
Healer 2: infused lightning backbarstaff with shock enchant (for OB Procs and Minor Vul)

Then Heal2 just kept blockade running, while healer 1 was dpsing and casting healshit inbetween like in a raid where ppl take dmg.

Best Case Scenario (Each heavy critted ^^)






Average Scenario (without lucky crits ^^)

Austinseph1

Asiangod did a very informative video on this including all the math to make it work. You should check it out. The thing that is wrong with this set is it's intended for a dps to use, but because it is a support set it will be shoehorned onto a healer/tank because it's a support set. Hence the incredibly high damage needed for maximum uptime. The thing is heavy builds wont pull as much damage so you actually give up more than just a 5 piece bonus for making use of the sat. It just isnt appealing for much of the dps community. I may use z'en on my MagDK once in a while because I can passively increase group damage but I'm not going to change my build and play style around a single set. It just isn't fun.

actosh

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Asiangod did a very informative video on this including all the math to make it work. You should check it out. The thing that is wrong with this set is it's intended for a dps to use, but because it is a support set it will be shoehorned onto a healer/tank because it's a support set. Hence the incredibly high damage needed for maximum uptime. The thing is heavy builds wont pull as much damage so you actually give up more than just a 5 piece bonus for making use of the sat. It just isnt appealing for much of the dps community. I may use z'en on my MagDK once in a while because I can passively increase group damage but I'm not going to change my build and play style around a single set. It just isn't fun.

Allready saw that Video and liked it. In Magicka Groups this may be used and if it will, then the healer(wannabe dd) will wear it) ^^

Milli_Rabbit

Could a magcro with 100% crit under 25% on an add hit a high heavy attack?

Hotdog_23

actosh wrote: »

show previous quotes

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

So you say to effectively use this set you need add-ons on top of that, @actosh ?

I´m pretty confident that some console guys can make it work on a rly high level without any form of addon since u cant use those.

U wont need them to effectively use the set, but the basic´s in our test was the following, u keep your dots up for zen (the typical 4) do the usual healing *** (combat prayer/healingcircle) and then heavy attack.

For the test to see what is the maximum achieveable uptime the other player used a cooldowntracker to charge the heavy when there´s still 2 secs left on the cooldown.

ZOS Design to tell via particle effects when this or that buff/cd/whaever ends, just dont work the way they imagined.

So my guess would be for now that for the average console player the set isnt useable to it full or almost full potential (hopefully i can be proven wrong here ^^).

Even on Pc it wont work fo most groups since the RO/ZEN guy isnt rly doing that much healing.
So the average progression group wont see the big of an effect as a Group that is on top of the leaderboards.

This so much. With ZOS adding so many gain “x” many of this for “X” effect for “X” seconds is really a pain and hard to track on console. ZOS really need to find a better way for console users to track such thing. Rather then design such a ability or set knowing that add-on maker will fill the gap on PC’s for their poor design choices and just leave console player in the blind.

WrathOfInnos

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Could a magcro with 100% crit under 25% on an add hit a high heavy attack?

@Milli_Rabbit You would get decent uptimes for that last 25%, but Necro crit is usually low from 100-25%. Also the current iteration of RO is really only viable on a Dragonknight because they get 50% more Heavy Attack Damage with Molten Armaments.

Olupajmibanan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

show previous quotes

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Could a magcro with 100% crit under 25% on an add hit a high heavy attack?

@Milli_Rabbit You would get decent uptimes for that last 25%, but Necro crit is usually low from 100-25%. Also the current iteration of RO is really only viable on a Dragonknight because they get 50% more Heavy Attack Damage with Molten Armaments.

I feel like the current iteration of RO is practicaly viable only on Jorvuld healers. Uptime is very similar to DK uptime but you don't have to gimp one of your DK DDs or run some weird DK heavy attack healer.

Or you can still run Jorvuld weird heavy attack DK healer

actosh

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

show previous quotes

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Could a magcro with 100% crit under 25% on an add hit a high heavy attack?

@Milli_Rabbit You would get decent uptimes for that last 25%, but Necro crit is usually low from 100-25%. Also the current iteration of RO is really only viable on a Dragonknight because they get 50% more Heavy Attack Damage with Molten Armaments.

I feel like the current iteration of RO is practicaly viable only on Jorvuld healers. Uptime is very similar to DK uptime but you don't have to gimp one of your DK DDs or run some weird DK heavy attack healer.

Or you can still run Jorvuld weird heavy attack DK healer

Agree. Gotta wait till PTS is back up again and may do some other test´s for myself thif evening.

Calypso589

On top of this, the set is supposed to be a lowest value of 5 seconds for it's duration, but even doing 36k heavy attacks still results in a 5 second duration

That’s because 8k goes into 36k five times, my dude. 4.5 to be exact but obviously they’re rounding up.

A 36k heavy gives you 5 seconds so it’s working as intended.

Anything less than 36k should’ve given you 5s as well. I see why you might’ve gotten confused though.

It doesn’t give you 5s for no damage at the start. It WILL factor in the first 36k of your heavy and then it begins adding seconds.

Either this is a bug, or it is expected of the player to deal 48k damage with a SINGLE heavy attack to get just ONE extra second of duration

44k actually gets you an extra second. 36 + 8 = 44.

Also were you doing your tests on the trial dummy for all the buffs & debuffs? The dummy for example places off balance on itself which further empowers your heavy attack.

Then there’s the major & minor vulnerability debuffs you can math in as well. Add to that zen & Mk if you want too but those are harder to sustain.

Do all that & you’ll get your TRUE heavy attack damage (the damage you can expect in a trial setting).

I just did a regular old setup of Jorvuld’s & RO with Nightflame on a Nord DK. You’ll see frenzy there but I didn’t use it. I was just playing with it.




I crit for 46k during off balance on the trial dummy and if we add 38% more damage to that (accounting for major & minor vulnerability) then that means it would’ve been a 63k crit & an easy 10 seconds of major slayer.

Adding the extra damage from Zen or MK would’ve given me another second or 2.

Without seeing your CMX I can’t tell if you were doing something wrong or if maybe there was indeed something bugging out but I tried RO & Jorvuld’s with vMA flame, masters resto & no monster set or even Molag Kena for the overkill & got consistent results.

10 seconds or more is entirely doable on a DK healer. They just gotta time it right. It’s no coincidence that ROs cooldown is the same as that of off balance, for example.

Other classes of healer can do this too but without molten armaments you’re automatically gonna shave 50% of the damage off my results.

Can a DPS do it? Definitely but they’re likely to sit at a loss as they’ll have to heavy attack every 22 seconds & if their rotation isn’t solid during the downtime.....you get the idea.

The meta next patch is very likely going to involve a DK healer in RO & Jorvuld’s while the job of Zen/MK debuffing will go to a DPS.

That particular DPS will have lower damage but you’re also not asking them to heavy attack every 22s & interrupt their rotation.

For a healer, heavy attacks are being performed all the time.

VoidCommander

@Calypso589
I understand that a dk specifically will be able to MAYBE get maximum uptime on this set under the absolute PERFECT conditions. The problem that I am hoping is addressed is that this build is the most niche build I’ve ever seen. I’d also like to point out that a 63k heavy attack crit, while impressive, would only get you 7 total seconds on RO, not 10. If a healer is going to be giving up any of the other countless sets for this set just for it to barely work Even under ideal conditions, no one will run it.

I want this set to be used by magicka dps as it was intended. Problem being that the damage requirement is currently so ridiculously high that even a fully speced mag dk dps would find it difficult to use. Lower the damage requirements to something that can be capped out without too many of the extreme raid buffs like major vulnerability or major force.

I agree with zos that the last thing eso needs right now is yet another magicka dps trial set getting thrown in the garbage bin Before it is even released. Frankly if they lowered the dps requirement to where you didn't need to run jorvald’s just to artificially increase its uptime, then it could be commonplace to just have a dps run it similar to how they might run master architects.

And if healers manage to max out their heavy attack because they struck at the perfect time, crited, slotted on molten armaments, ran jorvalds, and sacrificed a valuable five piece bonus, awesome. The average damage of trial groups increase. This is nothing new. New gear means old content gets easier.

Calypso589

I’d also like to point out that a 63k heavy attack crit, while impressive, would only get you 7 total seconds on RO, not 10

It gives you 8 cuz it’ll round up. 10 is with Jorvuld’s.

If a healer is going to be giving up any of the other countless sets for this set just for it to barely work Even under ideal conditions, no one will run it

Well I mean it’s not hard to time your heavy with off balance and an ultimate (console players are the ones who’ll have a hard time really).

It works consistently. Just takes practice. Stileanima actually just showed off a heavy attack that crit for 80k with off balance and NO major vulnerability and WASNT a DK.

I suspect she was a nightblade running frenzy & sustaining with Siphoning Attacks. I’ll be messing around with it myself later this evening to try & crack her code. 😜

Point is, this set WILL be used in the meta. No doubt about it.

But not as a magicka DPS set. I dunno who designed this set thinking DPS would wear it, but that person or team is INCREDIBLY out of touch with how the playerbase is playing their game.

It WILL underperform in its current form if a DPS tries to use it.

Calypso589

I get you wanna use this thing as ZoS intended [Snip]

It’s a DPS set but only one DPS in the whole raid can wear it.

Like, what? Hello? Brian? What kind of DPS set is that?

So we slap it on a healer because it’s more efficient that way and you’re not stifling the potential damage of a DPS with a heavy attack every 22 seconds.

@code65536 ’s post on this matter very elegantly outlined how RO should change in order for it to make sense on a DPS.

But until then, this thing’s goin on a healer. Lol


[Edited for bashing]