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Thoughts on BRP dual wield
Hooded_1
✭✭✭
I'm gonna make this post short, but discussion is encouraged. So they've changed it this last round of PTS so that it still procs while you're off the bar that it's on. I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game. However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP. This is understandable as stacking major evasion with a 10% damage mitigation is quite powerful, ignoring the fact that it also gives you 10% more damage done. This basically makes running 2-piece potentates on the back bar an almost dead option. Along with this, I don't see how it makes sense to have a dual wield set that makes you tankier. The dual wield and 2h skill lines are designed to be offensive skill lines to utilize on high damage builds. So I have a suggestion to compensate for this. Instead of reverting the set back to only being able to proc while you are on the BRP bar, take the 10% damage mitigation off and leave it as a purely offensive set. If this still doesn't cut it, add a "kiss-curse" effect as they like to call it. Make it so that you can do 10% more damage, but you also take 10% more damage. This feature, combined with the fact that you have to stay on the offensive, will make it a lot harder to use in PvP, while also making it super rewarding to use if you're able to pull it off.
7
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kalunte✭✭✭✭✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Edited by kalunte on May 7, 2020 3:51PM0 -
Hooded_1✭✭✭
The weapons I'm referring to are things like vMA dual wield, vMA staff, vMA bow, Master bow, vMA 2h, etc.
Basically anything that affects damage over time skills, which Cloak is in that category.
If you bar swap too fast, I would argue that this isn't an intended feature, but rather a bug and should be dismissed in this scenario as such.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BRP DW + Essence Thief + malaceth = 45% increased damage all the time.
Run it on a stamden for a few extra % for skills on bar and 8% minor berserk....57% damage all the time. And you just zeroed out any investment in impen by your targets.
4 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭BRP DW + Essence Thief + malaceth = 45% increased damage all the time.
Run it on a stamden for a few extra % for skills on bar and 8% minor berserk....57% damage all the time. And you just zeroed out any investment in impen by your targets.
Essence Thief is too much of a hassle. Stuhn's is better.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭At it current state this is probably the the most broken op set in the game by far(mythic included).
Proposed Solution - change it to - 1% bonus damage buff + 1% damage reduce, stacks with every hit (1 sec CD) and refreshes after the skill duration is over or reactivates.6 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
It’s not a true 10% damage, it is additive. In reality it ends up being close to 6% DPS or about 5-6k on a 90k parse. Also keep in mind that to use this set, you must give up a front bar skill slot (losing out on 3% weapon damage from a passive Fighters Guild skill, about 1k DPS loss) cast a suboptimal defensive skill every 10-14s, and use a 2pc set. Monster helms only require a 2pc set without needing to slot or cast any skills.
It may be strong as a defensive option in PVP, but BRP DW is still fairly weak as a PVE DPS set, especially considering the Perfected bonus of Stamina Regen is often not necessary (where monster helms have good 1pc bonus that adds 1-2k DPS). It’s really only worth considering in progression runs while learning mechanics or pug groups where you don’t trust your tank and healer. So we run into the timeless problem of balancing PVE and PVP together.4 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BRP DW + Essence Thief + malaceth = 45% increased damage all the time.
Run it on a stamden for a few extra % for skills on bar and 8% minor berserk....57% damage all the time. And you just zeroed out any investment in impen by your targets.
Essence Thief is too much of a hassle. Stuhn's is better.
True, but you can keep Essence up 100% of the time, not possible with Stuhn's.0 -
satanio✭✭✭✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
It’s not a true 10% damage, it is additive. In reality it ends up being close to 6% DPS or about 5-6k on a 90k parse. Also keep in mind that to use this set, you must give up a front bar skill slot (losing out on 3% weapon damage from a passive Fighters Guild skill, about 1k DPS loss) cast a suboptimal defensive skill every 10-14s, and use a 2pc set. Monster helms only require a 2pc set without needing to slot or cast any skills.
It may be strong as a defensive option in PVP, but BRP DW is still fairly weak as a PVE DPS set, especially considering the Perfected bonus of Stamina Regen is often not necessary (where monster helms have good 1pc bonus that adds 1-2k DPS). It’s really only worth considering in progression runs while learning mechanics or pug groups where you don’t trust your tank and healer. So we run into the timeless problem of balancing PVE and PVP together.
I agree for the most part, the dmg boost is about 6% when I tested it on a stamplar template. You need to cast a skill at least every 14s but that also deals a little dmg, roughly as much as a 1pc Selene bonus. The most obvious downside is that you reduce your dps by casting a weak dmg skill instead of your spammable. The stam regen is probably not needed unless you run NMA or go vamp.
The benefit for BRP DW over a monster set is that you deal 6% more dmg with all attacks and take a lot less dmg (10% + major evasion), so for trash fights or fights with multiple targets and/or unavoidable dmg the BRP DW might give an advantage over a monster set as Selene that only hits one target.
When I tested it I got a 100% uptime with Quick Cloak which lasts 14s so that seems to be the better morph.
Deadly Cloak actually resulted in lower dps because the duration is shorter so I had to recast it more often.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.
Does any other arena weapon performs as well as bis monster set?
Does that monster set also provide 10% mitigation?
This weapon is leagues ahead of any other arena weapon. Something has to be done, one way or the other.
1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only good arena DW was the Master because it was tied to the only ability in this skill line that made sense.
Anything else just doesnt make sense. People used SnB for tankiness. Brp came along, people swapped to d u a l w i e l d for tankiness.
Is this the combat vision? Is zos happy with their game?
BRP was OP no denying that. Anyway Zos has 0 clue on what to do with DW. Clueless. Totally clueless.Edited by GeorgeBlack on May 8, 2020 12:27AM1 -
Hooded_1✭✭✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.
Does any other arena weapon performs as well as bis monster set?
Does that monster set also provide 10% mitigation?
Master 2h is better to run now in a trash pack scenario vs. the best monster helm in game, which gives a damage shield (if you run brawler), which provides a huge amount of tankiness.
vMA bow and staff are BiS on the back bar for all DPS roles
vMA dual wield is really strong to run on a stamina DK, but not much else. If you run BRP dual wield on a stamDK you're actually losing DPS compared to other setups (compared against vMA dual wield and Selene monster helm), at least that's what I found. Same goes for stamden.
Iceheart is still a pretty solid option for magicka DPS if they want some more survivability.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
0 -
SHOW✭✭✭.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
Glad this won't affect u PvE fellas too much.
Now, ZOS get this set balanced for PvP already.
10% more damage plus 10% mitigation for a backbar 2 piece is preposterous.
(plus Major evasion and Major expedition)
Potentates was one of the strongest backbars at just 5% mitigation, and only on the back bar.
This is obviously ridiculously overtuned for PvP.3 -
Foto1✭✭✭✭.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
Glad this won't affect u PvE fellas too much.
Now, ZOS get this set balanced for PvP already.
10% more damage plus 10% mitigation for a backbar 2 piece is preposterous.
(plus Major evasion and Major expedition)
Potentates was one of the strongest backbars at just 5% mitigation, and only on the back bar.
This is obviously ridiculously overtuned for PvP.
potentate does not require the use of skill. this set can be collected through resto staff and through s + b. so the comparison is inappropriate. I think the spectral cloak is balanced right nowPC/EU CP 1200+
Artaxerks stamina dk khajiit
Wayna Qhapaq magicka dk argonian
Rorekur stamina sorc orc
Maria de Medici magicka sorc breton
Cordeilla stamina warden wood elf
Quienn Gwendolen magicka warden high elf
Nefertari stamina necro khajiit
Boadicea Icenian magicka templar dark elf
Clarice de Medici healer nb breton0 -
Red99✭✭✭.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
Glad this won't affect u PvE fellas too much.
Now, ZOS get this set balanced for PvP already.
10% more damage plus 10% mitigation for a backbar 2 piece is preposterous.
(plus Major evasion and Major expedition)
Potentates was one of the strongest backbars at just 5% mitigation, and only on the back bar.
This is obviously ridiculously overtuned for PvP.
potentate does not require the use of skill. this set can be collected through resto staff and through s + b. so the comparison is inappropriate. I think the spectral cloak is balanced right now
Major evasion + major expedition+ 10% dmg reduction+ 10% dmg increase balanced...lol5 -
SHOW✭✭✭potentate does not require the use of skill. this set can be collected through resto staff and through s + b. so the comparison is inappropriate. I think the spectral cloak is balanced right now
Dude basically said, "it is balanced cuz I have to press a button"
LOL
Sorry, that was snarky, but c'mon man, u know how toxic this is going to make our game right...
Edited by SHOW on May 8, 2020 7:45AM2 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭For PVE I like where it is, as far as a melee set goes. Gain a little extra mitigation for standing closer to danger while buffing damage, the concept make sense.
As a front bar set you give up a skill slot to fit deadly/quick cloak, something else in it's place could usually add extra passive damage.
People have been stuck on bow back bar for so long, here's a thing that could replace the maelstrom bow. Think about it, endless hail deals a lot of damage but it also adds 3/10ths of a second to a rotation. That could represent around 2-3% loss of damage over time, depending on how often it is recast. Deadly cloak/quick cloak has the same windup as any other dual wield skill, extremely fast. It's so much easier and faster weaving light attacks with dual wield too, coming from someone with mediocre weaving and lag.1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brp dw comes at the expense of s+b back bar. Which provides considerably more mitigation2 -
SHOW✭✭✭Brp dw comes at the expense of s+b back bar. Which provides considerably more mitigation
...if u are s&b turtling on your backbar, sure, but who cares then.
The prob is that this set carries all of those buffs to the front bar on offense.
Why would u defend this?
This set was toxic cheese for the longest time, then ZOS finally noticed and tried to balance it....
...but the unanimous response is that they accidentally BUFFED it....
Let's help them get it right for PvP please
Edited by SHOW on May 8, 2020 8:19PM0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
Glad this won't affect u PvE fellas too much.
Now, ZOS get this set balanced for PvP already.
10% more damage plus 10% mitigation for a backbar 2 piece is preposterous.
(plus Major evasion and Major expedition)
Potentates was one of the strongest backbars at just 5% mitigation, and only on the back bar.
This is obviously ridiculously overtuned for PvP.
potentate does not require the use of skill. this set can be collected through resto staff and through s + b. so the comparison is inappropriate. I think the spectral cloak is balanced right now
August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber3 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭I think the change is really good. At the moment the set offers to much for ktting the major protection, major evasion, major expedition. With this change kitting will have the mitigation almost always removed as it the 10% mitigation only procs in a 5m radius for 2 seconds.
While this set now on the offense brings mitigation and damage when you are putting yourself up close 5m radius. I really like it, its a nice change that ends the endless kitting but brings some good spice to up close combat. I am impressed that ZOS made a change that still makes the set very valuable but turns it upside down in how it activates and works.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
SHOW✭✭✭It was OP before and it is OP now.
Far out of balance.
and kiting was ur issue before? ur worried about people running away? u must be zerging them down... let them run man.
Offense is the prob, now every dswing, spin2win, or aoe zergball stam group will abuse this. It's a no brainer. u think stam necros need another buff?
Where is the mag OP equivalent?
That impulse dot that never even ticks if you spam a spammable? LOL
Where's the balance!!
Edited by SHOW on May 8, 2020 9:54PM0 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.
Does any other arena weapon performs as well as bis monster set?
Does that monster set also provide 10% mitigation?
Master 2h is better to run now in a trash pack scenario vs. the best monster helm in game, which gives a damage shield (if you run brawler), which provides a huge amount of tankiness.
vMA bow and staff are BiS on the back bar for all DPS roles
vMA dual wield is really strong to run on a stamina DK, but not much else. If you run BRP dual wield on a stamDK you're actually losing DPS compared to other setups (compared against vMA dual wield and Selene monster helm), at least that's what I found. Same goes for stamden.
Iceheart is still a pretty solid option for magicka DPS if they want some more survivability.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
I was looking it from PvP perspective. Had no idea this could actually be viable in PvE to, since it requires you to put *** ability into your rotation plus a weapon, but idk don't PvE.
In PvP tho what it provides, it's leagues ahead all other arena weapons.
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.
Does any other arena weapon performs as well as bis monster set?
Does that monster set also provide 10% mitigation?
Master 2h is better to run now in a trash pack scenario vs. the best monster helm in game, which gives a damage shield (if you run brawler), which provides a huge amount of tankiness.
vMA bow and staff are BiS on the back bar for all DPS roles
vMA dual wield is really strong to run on a stamina DK, but not much else. If you run BRP dual wield on a stamDK you're actually losing DPS compared to other setups (compared against vMA dual wield and Selene monster helm), at least that's what I found. Same goes for stamden.
Iceheart is still a pretty solid option for magicka DPS if they want some more survivability.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
I was looking it from PvP perspective. Had no idea this could actually be viable in PvE to, since it requires you to put *** ability into your rotation plus a weapon, but idk don't PvE.
In PvP tho what it provides, it's leagues ahead all other arena weapons.
The good thing is that you only get the spectral cloak buff if you hit a target with blade cloak. In pvp you generally wont want to be in melee range if you go on the defense so you wont get the buff.
In pve the set slightly outperforms selene in single target dps but you need to use blade cloak in the rotation and not all classes have space on their bar for it. So for pve I think the set is in a good place, there are benefits but also some disadvantages. For pvp I dont know how strong it will be but I think its at least less op than currently on live.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Militan1404✭✭✭Its not op at all, u have to sacrifice a skill slott to use it and a pice you could proc from back bar. Follow this forum and0 -
Valdek✭✭✭If it stays as it is, I will be using this set on my MAGDEN instead of a resto staff backbar.0 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I really like this change, as it makes it consistent with all the other special weapon sets in the game.
this is essentially false, there are still weapons that suffers from bar swapping at all or too fast.However, I did notice in the notes that ZOS was worried about the sheer power that this set could bring to certain builds, especially in PvP.
this isnt accurate neither: +10% dmg with a potential 100% uptime in PvE is way higher than a monster set 2pc bonus budget.
Monster sets are doing around 3 or 4k dps on a top parses, this 10% dmg would add 9k on top players.
the kiss-curse idea is cool tho, hard to deal with in melee PvE and definatly risky for PvP.
Too many percentual increases on stam DDs in PvE, it is not plain 10%, so do not mislead. Also, on dummies it performs just as well as bis monster set, really, test things before posting.
Does any other arena weapon performs as well as bis monster set?
Does that monster set also provide 10% mitigation?
Master 2h is better to run now in a trash pack scenario vs. the best monster helm in game, which gives a damage shield (if you run brawler), which provides a huge amount of tankiness.
vMA bow and staff are BiS on the back bar for all DPS roles
vMA dual wield is really strong to run on a stamina DK, but not much else. If you run BRP dual wield on a stamDK you're actually losing DPS compared to other setups (compared against vMA dual wield and Selene monster helm), at least that's what I found. Same goes for stamden.
Iceheart is still a pretty solid option for magicka DPS if they want some more survivability.
At the end of the day, if ZOS decides to keep the 10% damage bonus but do something else with the damage mitigation, it won't affect PvE DPS compared to week 1 of the PTS. Where it will change is in the PvP scene.
I was looking it from PvP perspective. Had no idea this could actually be viable in PvE to, since it requires you to put *** ability into your rotation plus a weapon, but idk don't PvE.
In PvP tho what it provides, it's leagues ahead all other arena weapons.
The good thing is that you only get the spectral cloak buff if you hit a target with blade cloak. In pvp you generally wont want to be in melee range if you go on the defense so you wont get the buff.
In pve the set slightly outperforms selene in single target dps but you need to use blade cloak in the rotation and not all classes have space on their bar for it. So for pve I think the set is in a good place, there are benefits but also some disadvantages. For pvp I dont know how strong it will be but I think its at least less op than currently on live.
Yea ranged builds will have easier time, but against melee it will be up at all times.
If your blade is not hitting melee spec, then you're also not getting hit, so no need for proc.
I want this weapon to stay as is, but would really like for other arena weapons to be on par.
0