Dragon's Apetite

Firstmep

I really like the concept of this set, however i think the numbers are a little too weak at the moment.

I get that the 225 extra damage can apply to multiple targets, but imho even than its still too weak.

And the heal itself is also really bad, in pvp this thing will heal for like 2.5k every 10 seconds?

A few way i think this could be made better:

1. Reduce the cooldown of gaining stacks to 0.25 seconds. This would allow builds that can take advantage of the extra damage to also benefit from the small heal more often.
2. Increase the damage to 350 or so. It would still not be as good as Draugrkin for single target, but would better for aoe.
3. Reduce the number of stacks required for the heal to 5 or increase the heal amount significantly.
4. Do away with the heal portion completely and instead make it a stacking damage buff aganist bleeding targets, like 150 per stack, once stack can be gained a second, up to 5 stacks.
5. or just buff the numbers for both the damage and the heal

Ofc i dont want all these changes, but it would be nice to have this set be a bit more relevant.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Aznox

I'd vote for making the cooldown 0.5sec for the stacks.

Firstmep

Aznox wrote: »

I'd vote for making the cooldown 0.5sec for the stacks.

Id be down with that. THe current heal value for having to wait at minimum 10 seconds is too low.

Nemesis7884

not sure if this is meant for a wwolf berserker?

Thedragonlolitucker

yeah would be an interesting set if it was a bit stronger bump it up to 450 smth

Qbiken

While 225 extra damage looks low on paper, it applies to all sources of damage you apply. Even a weak DoT tick from a status effect all of a sudden becomes very leathal, hence why draugrkin is incredibly strong, even on a stamina build.

One thing that differs Draugrkin from Dragon´s Appetite is that the extra damage Draugrkin provides isn´t boosted by % - based modifiers, while Dragon´s Appetite is. Why this is the case I don´t know.

Another major difference between the two sets is that Dragon´s Appetite doesn´t have a cooldown like Draugrkin, which is also one of the reasons the damage increase is lower. As far as I can tell from the description, as long as you´ve a bleed effect on the target, you´ll do 225 extra damage from all sources.

From all your suggestions I think #1 might be a better approach.

Firstmep

Qbiken wrote: »

While 225 extra damage looks low on paper, it applies to all sources of damage you apply. Even a weak DoT tick from a status effect all of a sudden becomes very leathal, hence why draugrkin is incredibly strong, even on a stamina build.

One thing that differs Draugrkin from Dragon´s Appetite is that the extra damage Draugrkin provides isn´t boosted by % - based modifiers, while Dragon´s Appetite is. Why this is the case I don´t know.

Another major difference between the two sets is that Dragon´s Appetite doesn´t have a cooldown like Draugrkin, which is also one of the reasons the damage increase is lower. As far as I can tell from the description, as long as you´ve a bleed effect on the target, you´ll do 225 extra damage from all sources.

From all your suggestions I think #1 might be a better approach.

Dragons appetite increases your damage, draugr increases the damage the enemy take.
I agree that because it apply to many dmg sources it can be decent, however it's still not a massive amount of dmg.id be happy too with gaining stacks faster too tbh, would make the heal portion more relevant, and would synergise with the damage increase part better too.

Aznox

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

not sure if this is meant for a wwolf berserker?

No, not enough dmg ticks/sec

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

yeah would be an interesting set if it was a bit stronger bump it up to 450 smth

450 would be absurdly OP.

Atherakhia

This is a consistent problem with a lot of the sets they have. The stacks are too large and/or applied too slowly. If they are going to limit stacks at 1 a second the stack really can't be more than like 5. If every .5 perhaps 10.

They need an across the board overhaul of these sets.

Azureblight, Relequen, etc

Firstmep

Atherakhia wrote: »

This is a consistent problem with a lot of the sets they have. The stacks are too large and/or applied too slowly. If they are going to limit stacks at 1 a second the stack really can't be more than like 5. If every .5 perhaps 10.

They need an across the board overhaul of these sets.

Azureblight, Relequen, etc

Azureblight doesn't have a cool down on stacks AFAIK.

Aznox

Firstmep wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

This is a consistent problem with a lot of the sets they have. The stacks are too large and/or applied too slowly. If they are going to limit stacks at 1 a second the stack really can't be more than like 5. If every .5 perhaps 10.

They need an across the board overhaul of these sets.

Azureblight, Relequen, etc

Azureblight doesn't have a cool down on stacks AFAIK.

It doesn't, and that's what makes it, Draugrkin and (the damage portion of) Dragon's Appetite so interesting to build/play.

Vaneur

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

Firstmep

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

A 2.5k heal every 8 seconds? On my Templars my ritual ticks for that much every 2 seconds. This set has to compete with some really high dmg sets, I think the reduced cooldown on gaining stack would make it fair.

Aznox

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

I'm sorry but you did not understand what this set does.

it does not increase your weapon damage against bleeding enemies. (there's already Dro'Zakar's Claws for that)

it does increase your damage (just "damage", as in "add 225 damage to each skill, each tick of every DoT, etc..").

Increasing the damage portion from 225 to 280 would be a bigger buff than allowing heal to stack twice as fast.

Thedragonlolitucker

Aznox wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

not sure if this is meant for a wwolf berserker?

No, not enough dmg ticks/sec

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

yeah would be an interesting set if it was a bit stronger bump it up to 450 smth

450 would be absurdly OP.

meant to say 350 lol even then wold be strong af, have tested this with draugr on pts already and its pretty nice

Vaneur

Firstmep wrote: »

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

A 2.5k heal every 8 seconds? On my Templars my ritual ticks for that much every 2 seconds. This set has to compete with some really high dmg sets, I think the reduced cooldown on gaining stack would make it fair.

Have you tested how healing works at PTS now? even rally at its full (20 seconds) only heal the caster for 5 - 5.5k (non critical).

We both agree this set needs a buff, but reduce cooldown on gaining stacks to... 0.25s? thats a 3k healing every 2.5 secs, 24k healing/20 secs vs 5.5k/20 secs (if we compare with the new rally healing).

If you want to be fair with balance just reduce the stacks number, if you prefer to reduce cooldown on gaining stacks to 0.5s (for example) the stacks needed should be higher (about 13 - 15 to be fair).

Edit: the damage it provides against bleeding enemies should be higher since it's activated under a certain condition (it forces the user to slot a bleeding skill or use an axe or even be a ww) and it doesnt support the caster healing.

Firstmep

Vaneur wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

A 2.5k heal every 8 seconds? On my Templars my ritual ticks for that much every 2 seconds. This set has to compete with some really high dmg sets, I think the reduced cooldown on gaining stack would make it fair.

Have you tested how healing works at PTS now? even rally at its full (20 seconds) only heal the caster for 5 - 5.5k (non critical).

We both agree this set needs a buff, but reduce cooldown on gaining stacks to... 0.25s? thats a 3k healing every 2.5 secs, 24k healing/20 secs vs 5.5k/20 secs (if we compare with the new rally healing).

If you want to be fair with balance just reduce the stacks number, if you prefer to reduce cooldown on gaining stacks to 0.5s (for example) the stacks needed should be higher (about 13 - 15 to be fair).

Edit: the damage it provides against bleeding enemies should be higher since it's activated under a certain condition (it forces the user to slot a bleeding skill or use an axe or even be a ww) and it doesnt support the caster healing.

What stats do you have for that rally?

Also don't forget that you are giving up a lot wpd for running this set, as well as having to build around the damage portion for it to be worth it.
Also this set cannot crit, while your rally heal can.
The current implementation of this set is around 2.5k heal every 10 seconds under ideal conditions, that's incredibly weak.

Vaneur

Aznox wrote: »

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

I'm sorry but you did not understand what this set does.

it does not increase your weapon damage against bleeding enemies. (there's already Dro'Zakar's Claws for that)

it does increase your damage (just "damage", as in "add 225 damage to each skill, each tick of every DoT, etc..").

Increasing the damage portion from 225 to 280 would be a bigger buff than allowing heal to stack twice as fast.

I've test again it at PTS and yep, u're right; I think I should test it against a player with damage reduction CPs in order to see how it works in a pvp scenario.

Firstmep

Vaneur wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Vaneur wrote: »

This set has a nice 2 - 4 pieces bonuses btw, so I think that reduce cooldown within stacks would be too strong, instead I suggest reduce the amount of stacks you need to get the healing to 8 from 10, and increases the weapon dmg it provides against bleeding enemies to 280 from 225.

I've tested it at the PTS server and I do really agree that this set need some love, but the things you seggest would make this set overbroken.

--->

Dragon’s Appetite
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – Increases your damage done to Bleeding enemies by 280. Dealing non-Bleed damage to Bleeding enemies generates a persistent stack of Dragon’s Appetite, up to once per second. After 8 stacks, you consume Dragon’s Appetite and heal for 6415.

I'm sorry but you did not understand what this set does.

it does not increase your weapon damage against bleeding enemies. (there's already Dro'Zakar's Claws for that)

it does increase your damage (just "damage", as in "add 225 damage to each skill, each tick of every DoT, etc..").

Increasing the damage portion from 225 to 280 would be a bigger buff than allowing heal to stack twice as fast.

I've test again it at PTS and yep, u're right; I think I should test it against a player with damage reduction CPs in order to see how it works in a pvp scenario.

Basically it adds 225 extra damage to your damage against bleeding opponents, every dot tick, aoe etc.
Unlike draugrkin which increases the damage your opponent takes by a flat amount this set is actually affected by damage increases like cp, berserk etc.
It's really only going to be relevant in no cp IMHO.

Vaneur

Firstmep wrote: »

What stats do you have for that rally?

Also don't forget that you are giving up a lot wpd for running this set, as well as having to build around the damage portion for it to be worth it.
Also this set cannot crit, while your rally heal can.
The current implementation of this set is around 2.5k heal every 10 seconds under ideal conditions, that's incredibly weak.

With 3.7k wpn dmg, 31.6k max stamina and 27 points invested into blessed and quick recovery (I had 0 points in my previous test ) rally heals for 6.5k at its full after 20 seconds (non critical healing), dragon's appetite heals for 2.9k after 10 stacks. I still thinking that reduce the stacks needed to 7/8 from 10 would improve this set in a fair way.

Firstmep

Vaneur wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

What stats do you have for that rally?

Also don't forget that you are giving up a lot wpd for running this set, as well as having to build around the damage portion for it to be worth it.
Also this set cannot crit, while your rally heal can.
The current implementation of this set is around 2.5k heal every 10 seconds under ideal conditions, that's incredibly weak.

With 3.7k wpn dmg, 31.6k max stamina and 27 points invested into blessed and quick recovery (I had 0 points in my previous test ) rally heals for 6.5k at its full after 20 seconds (non critical healing), dragon's appetite heals for 2.9k after 10 stacks. I still thinking that reduce the stacks needed to 7/8 from 10 would improve this set in a fair way.

Yeah that weapon damage is really low, most stam setups run 5k at least.