Another update with zero changes to player vampires.

darthgummibear_ESO

They really just don't seem to care at all.

Vevvev

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

darthgummibear_ESO

Vevvev wrote: »

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

This is why I try to explain to people that the test server only exists as a marketing tool, because they obviously don't heed any feedback whatsoever.

GoodFella146

It'll get changed just like the cast times on ultimates. Don't worry.

Sephyr

Vevvev wrote: »

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

At this point @ZOS_GinaBruno should stop posting feedback threads if they're not going to encourage the transparency of it. They being the developers, not her. The devs are wasting her time and ours for having hours wasted. They'll probably slap some 'fixes' on the fourth week without really testing it, just like they did with necromancer and release it as a broken mess.

AMeanOne

GoodFella146 wrote: »

It'll get changed just like the cast times on ultimates. Don't worry.

Goodfellas right here. Remember they said they knew the feedback was overwhelmingly negative on cast times, but they did it anyway and they're still here.

Vevvev

I fear they are only listening to the positive feedback they're getting, and I know there is positive feedback out there about vampires. It's probably creating an echo chamber since their goal was to make it so not everyone wants to be a vampire. "Oh hey we're getting a lot of people giving us negative feedback and threatening to cure themselves! We MUST be doing something right!!!"

YandereGirlfriend

The only feedback that they listen to are calls for additional nerfs.

That's why people should NEVER praise sets or abilities before they go Live: it invites the practically inevitable nerf into oblivion.

ShadowHvo

Hold out hope, people, and keep spamming that feedback.

Elusiin

If nothing is changed, honestly I'll be so disappointed. It's the main reason I was gonna come back and play this year, heck I would have subscribed for another year of gold membership. I'm definitely going to want my refund on Greymoor if that's the case, but I doubt I can get that too. Just feels bad...

navystylz_ESO

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

They really just don't seem to care at all.

I'm holding out hope it's because they are doing more significant changes that are takening more time to finis, so rather than putting tweaks up each week. Will will see a mini rework in the coming weeks. lol

ApostateHobo

I really hope they're just taking a while to make changes instead of ignoring all feedback, but I won't be surprised if they don't make any adjustments because well it's zos. As it is now though vampires are going to suck royally in greymoor.

x48rph

Elusiin wrote: »

If nothing is changed, honestly I'll be so disappointed. It's the main reason I was gonna come back and play this year, heck I would have subscribed for another year of gold membership. I'm definitely going to want my refund on Greymoor if that's the case, but I doubt I can get that too. Just feels bad...

That's why I no longer preorder, or even pay for more than one month of eso plus at a time. I only bought the last expansion when it hit one of those super cheap sales well after it released cause it's just not worth all that money when they don't listen at all to their player bases , routinely destroy entire builds and play styles , and leave the same bugs and horrible performance for literally years while saying they are improving it. Have yet to see any improvement what so ever after all of these so called performance patches and in fact it's worse now then when they first started the "improvements". If there was a similar game to eso that I could get into, I'd jump ship now.

Paradisius

I personally have prepared my build and rotation in case the vampire changes go live as is. But at the same time, it would be very concerning if they go live without having any changes to any values at the very least. But if I remember right theres 2 or 3 patches of PTS to go, perhaps theyll pull a fast one and make some changes towards the end of the PTS

Dracane

I wish they would finally see that 20% cost increase or anything near it is insanity.
Several threads after the preview a month ago told them this and almost everyone except for 2 people or so says the same here.

I hope everyone is aware that this 20% is based of base cost, not cost after decreases. So it is not 20%, but more close to 30%. My hardened ward goes from 3600 magicka cost to slightly over 4600 magicka cost.

Please... I would be up to remove this nonsense completely and maybe add some sort of defile instead.

VoidCommander

I just hate that no matter how I arrange the vampire abilities and armor sets, I can’t get a smooth dps rotation for pve that lasts any significant amount of time. The vampire ultimate would be kinda good at stage 4, if it didn’t take two seconds to transform AND untransform.

I thought I could make up for the magicka cost increases by using the health costing spammable. It deals a fair amount of damage even if you are full health. Little problem with it though, it has NO PASSIVES that support it like other class neutral spammables like ele weapon, crushing shock, or your class spammable. Additionally, it can’t apply a status effect. Hell make it have a change to apply a bleed or something. Oh, and it is melee range so RIP magicka dps.

The blood frenzy skill is very well balenced for the most part, but I still think encouraging the idea of “healers are pointless” is unhealthy. If they made it so that when activated you take 80% reduced healing from outside sources, then it would encourage healers to put their overhealing to good use.

A 20% cost increase of 80% of your magicka costs to get a 40% cost reduction on the skills that would otherwise account for 20% of your magicka costs just doesn’t work out in favor of the vampire mathematically. Vampires builds shouldn’t be the best of the best obviously, but they should at least be viable to compete better than average builds dangit.

Kurat

I cured all my vamps.
Happy RPing

Charon_on_Vacation

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would finally see that 20% cost increase or anything near it is insanity.
Several threads after the preview a month ago told them this and almost everyone except for 2 people or so says the same here.

I hope everyone is aware that this 20% is based of base cost, not cost after decreases. So it is not 20%, but more close to 30%. My hardened ward goes from 3600 magicka cost to slightly over 4600 magicka cost.

Please... I would be up to remove this nonsense completely and maybe add some sort of defile instead.

yeah, cost is too high for anything but niche builds.
i'd also like to add that it does effect things like block, dodge and break free, which makes it even worse.

Aelorin

Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would finally see that 20% cost increase or anything near it is insanity.
Several threads after the preview a month ago told them this and almost everyone except for 2 people or so says the same here.

I hope everyone is aware that this 20% is based of base cost, not cost after decreases. So it is not 20%, but more close to 30%. My hardened ward goes from 3600 magicka cost to slightly over 4600 magicka cost.

Please... I would be up to remove this nonsense completely and maybe add some sort of defile instead.

yeah, cost is too high for anything but niche builds.
i'd also like to add that it does effect things like block, dodge and break free, which makes it even worse.

Hey Charon,

Are you sure there is an increased cost on block, and dodge etc? Because that would really, really suck, especially since you have to be in melee range...to use vampire effectively.

Universe

If ZOS won't change their approach to Vampires before it's going LIVE, I will cure my main of Vampirism first thing when the Update hits.

MrGhosty

I can't speak to whether they'll change much or not, I don't think it's likely but one can hope. I have noticed that for the last year that I've been back, they rarely changed anything significant until after the patch where they make EU characters available on the PTS. It seems like after both NA and EU have had a go, then you see adjustments to values.

I've not tested the vampire, but the increased cost does seem a bit high even though I support the obvious move to make Vampire less of "must have" and to give it a niche like WW has moved into (saying that, it seem WW got a buff so it's actually pretty competitive now.) I can't imagine they want everyone to stop being vampires in the middle of a year long story where vampires play a key role. What I think is happening, is that ZOS has a clear idea in their head of how a vamp build should work we just can't seem to figure out that build. (I don't say that as the players aren't good enough to figure it out, I just think something has been lost in translation and could benefit mightily from a ZOS post explaining the changes further and pointing us toward their thinking.)

Most substantial changes typically occur on the last phase of PTS before launch, so keep providing your feedback and with some luck we will get through to them.

ungama

If you bring it out like this, the vampire is so useless. The costs rise immensely and for what? So that the skills that you would never use in a raid or in PvP become cheaper, or there is only max 1 skill that I would use in the raid and 2 skills in PVP. Especially since all endurance characters can delete the vampire skill line.

Great for RP, bad for content.

ungama

*Especially since all stamina characters can delete the vampire skill line.

idk

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

This is why I try to explain to people that the test server only exists as a marketing tool, because they obviously don't heed any feedback whatsoever.

Wow. One does not need to look far to see how wrong this comment is. Zos recently held an off-cycle test and choose to not move forward with it and consider other options specifically because of our feedback. Just stating an extremely solid fact from the very recent history.

and I thought I was critical of how Zos managed this game.

Vevvev

After duelling as a magicka dragonknight all last night I ended up coming to the conclusion it was better for me to stay mortal than be a vampire in PVP. Even at stage 1 the debuffs outweighed the strengths of having the abilities and it just made no sense for me to keep it. Sure you can build yourself to mitigate the weaknesses but it feels like I'm making myself even weaker to get "stronger".

Also it feels like they're teasing stamina vampires being a thing with strike from the shadows and blood Frenzy giving weapon damage, but it's a joke with that ability cost increase.

Canned_Apples

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

At this point @ZOS_GinaBruno should stop posting feedback threads if they're not going to encourage the transparency of it. They being the developers, not her. The devs are wasting her time and ours for having hours wasted. They'll probably slap some 'fixes' on the fourth week without really testing it, just like they did with necromancer and release it as a broken mess.

I think feedback threads are more about condensing people’s complaints and not about actual feedback. In the end, it’s All the same to them.

Sahidom

I feel there's some misconception occurring about the new vampire changes: the new vampire skills and passives are a new weapon skill-line specific to magic-based characters. As with any weapon choice, some weapons work better than others in specific character builds. The new vampire changes have the same implication, it's not universal without some concessions to the PROs and CONs; when you view the new vampire skills and passives, as a magic weapon skill-line than you can build a character around them; similar to most 2H builds using 2-3 weapon skills over class kit skills on their action bars.

darthgummibear_ESO

idk wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Apparently this is how its going to be and it looks like nothing will change their minds. Either that or they are taking forever to change things. The second scenario is more hopeful but probably the wrong one

This is why I try to explain to people that the test server only exists as a marketing tool, because they obviously don't heed any feedback whatsoever.

Wow. One does not need to look far to see how wrong this comment is. Zos recently held an off-cycle test and choose to not move forward with it and consider other options specifically because of our feedback. Just stating an extremely solid fact from the very recent history.

and I thought I was critical of how Zos managed this game.

You actually think that was a real test cycle. That's cute. They never intended to go ahead with those changes, they knew everyone would hate them. They only did that "off cycle" garbage so they would have something to hold up and say "see, we listen". Please.

wheem_ESO

Sahidom wrote: »

I feel there's some misconception occurring about the new vampire changes: the new vampire skills and passives are a new weapon skill-line specific to magic-based characters. As with any weapon choice, some weapons work better than others in specific character builds. The new vampire changes have the same implication, it's not universal without some concessions to the PROs and CONs; when you view the new vampire skills and passives, as a magic weapon skill-line than you can build a character around them; similar to most 2H builds using 2-3 weapon skills over class kit skills on their action bars.

Even if that's true, the skill line rework is still a failure...unless of course it's supposed to be a "weapon line" that's exclusively for ganking (aka, sucking every ounce of fun out of PvP). The only classes that are realistically able to make use of the spammable are the same ones who will never use it since they've already got something better. If they truly want the Vampire skill line to be something that players build around, they need to make it a complete toolkit (or at least have the necessary components available through other skill lines).

If nothing major changes, Vampirism is probably dead for all "normal" PvP builds. Gank builds may make use of Blood Frenzy + Strike from the Shadows in order to have a better chance to 1-shot their targets (which makes PvP oodles of fun!), and Unnatural Movement to help with escaping.

Dracane

Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I wish they would finally see that 20% cost increase or anything near it is insanity.
Several threads after the preview a month ago told them this and almost everyone except for 2 people or so says the same here.

I hope everyone is aware that this 20% is based of base cost, not cost after decreases. So it is not 20%, but more close to 30%. My hardened ward goes from 3600 magicka cost to slightly over 4600 magicka cost.

Please... I would be up to remove this nonsense completely and maybe add some sort of defile instead.

yeah, cost is too high for anything but niche builds.
i'd also like to add that it does effect things like block, dodge and break free, which makes it even worse.

Are you certain? If this is true, then I purge right now on live.
I will test this.

daemonor

Just wanted to let out a big fat laugh @ the people who commented "no more 100% running vampire for the passives you meta min max chasers! it's a playstyle choice and you have to embrace it or pass on the free buffs!111 Hooray my magicka dps tank nord bowblade!

You have achieved nothing. Now the vampire spammable is best in slot for some pve builds. And that's literaly the only skill they will ever use from the vampire tree. Then there's blood/shimmering frenzy, again a single skill that's probably gonna be turn out to be beneficial on a min max pve build.

And guess what. People will stay at stage 1 and slot either spammable or the toggle. This means you are...well clueless cause you supported this rework. This rework is no good, and the min max meta chasers are happy with this rework. You can still play your roleplay and housing with vampire lord set and 5 vampire skills + ultimate or farm overland mobs. Just like you could before. The people who were complaining about vampire changes - me included we actually were fighting on your side, wanting vampire to be a fleshed out playstyle like a werewolf, a theme of some sorts. With the current itteration of vampires this is unlikely going to happen. And this is dissapointing. And i will be the first to abuse those 1-2 useful skills on a 100% meta build. And try werewolf for the first time in my eso carrer cause now they actually seem to be more than viable.