Returning Player's Rant

Chevaliemew

Where to start...

My history is pretty simple, I gave up on the game before Morrowind hit in. Yet this game has something that lures ones back. I am guilty of monitoring state of the game, by patch notes, videos even login once in a while. Recently I figured, let's start it all over, maybe that will get me in back again. Do I regret giving it a try again?
Can't really tell how many veteran players are still lurking in the forums, but don't you people have that feeling that something was taken from you? I used to play every vanilla class back in the day in PVP and PVE scenarios on the competetive side and classes seemed to have abilities that made them special. My question is: Where are they? (insert angry Batman voice). Bleaching out classes started more or less in TG patch and constant changes were heading in the wrong direction. After news of upcoming Morrowind changes me and my boyz realize that, enough is enough. Just to give you idea, if the game ever had Golden Age it was Orsinium Patch. What incredible frustrates me is the fact that Zenimax doesn't learn from a succesful iterations and constantly trying to implement something new or what is worse delete mechanics that were working perfectly fine.

There is many new quality of life improvments and some changes I was witnessing recently were really needed, but why not... just why not keep the combat balance as great as it once was?
This may sound like history lesson right here and I am aware that people may remember things differently.

General PVP:
The real downhill and META as we all know today started in Dark Brotherhood Patch. And by the META I mean heavy armor. It used to be light armor META in the very begining and when everyting got sorted out pretty well in 1.6 and IC Patch we got hit with almost everyone wearing heavy armor straight away after DB release. Sustain builds? Why risk it in medium armor when you can operate the same way but with additional armor? There used to be something I called "Rule of the three". You had: damage, sustain and armor. You could only pick two or focus on just one. Heavy armor was revolution that provided it all. A lot of the blame is also on the side of heavy sets providing damage without drawbacks. That is just one thing. Resource poisons were always direct hit against small scale. At least proc sets seem to be less OP than in One Tamriel. But there are also things like animations. Some of you may remember how smooth one could cancel animation before Dark Brotherhood. That was a big skill factor that got diminished to the degree leaving havoc behind. Certain skills like Strife became really clunky, now it seems to work much smoother, but I found abilities I had a hard time block cancel (Shuffle). It doesn't cancel like other abilities, it used to work fine but it seems to be broken nowadays. Neither I like the fact that whenever I am trying to cancel animation of ultimate it cancels the ultimate all along...
That is not everyting, Zenimax literally removes perfectly fine working mechanics in favor of raw percentage. The perfect example right here is a Major Evasion. Well... 25% is a lot, but how does that help me kite bigger groups? Will it save me from upcoming frag? It is strong in a way, but it suits big group playstyles where AOE is big chunk of damage. Why not make additional buff and keep random dodge change in the game? After all that is a perfectly fine working mechanic with it's own history. It's RNG but still.
Before getting into classes, I want to make honorable mention of once glorious skill. That is Uppercut. The amount of nerfs it's morph got through would put every reasonable man into depression. I couldn't belive my eyes when the mob I was hitting with Dizzing didn't got send in the air. Let's commemorate Uppercut and it's morphs with the minute of silence. RIP.
One more thing, anyone else notice how farming APs became a PVE thing? All you have to do is to basically take resources and keeps. No more requirements for enemy players.

General PVE:
The trend with PVE was to constatly making it easier. That is the matter, where people can feel powerful when it comes to the damage and DPS section. But at what cost? ESO might be harsh for beginners but is this the solution? I have seen people constantly demanding veteran difficulty level for overland. That could solve a problem, yet for now basic content is luaghable. Even vMA is being steamrolled nowadays. The problem here is the constant DPS increase, by the new sets, CP changes, skill changes and others. People remember times when doing 20k DPS was already a high number. When now I hear about people making 100k+ DPS. Isn't that insane?Then everyone is complaining that mechanics on dungeons and trials are being skiped. DOT's are having too much power, and skill slots are no longer limited by any toggleables. That is something that can be easly controlled, but that is for Zenimax to decide. Because of that regular dungeons are being steamrolled by 4x DDs rather than usual 2x DD, Healer and Tank setup. Dungeon finder was probably one of the worst experience I have ever had. People don't know what is going on, they post cyrylic symbols and are rude in general. Did community gone so bad? I really miss good old LFM on the zone. Still saw some, but it takes way longer to get a group that way. Biggest no no for me to even touch PVE nowadays are the sustain nerfs. No matter what people thought, sustain was great pre Morrowind, but never that great so we didn't have to care about it. It's the support healers that made our dungeons and trials pleasant. But now? Doing a typical light attack rotation without any support is an existencial pain. Another example of class bleaching with nerf attacks against Templars as default healers and DKs as default tanks. Those classes got nerfed at those departments so others could get a little closer to them. I do consider this to be hypocrisy. People are constantly leveling new alt toons (it takes just few hours…) but they are complaining about classes not being able to competetively fulfill different roles. Well…
My question here is: How many competetive trial guilds are threre nowdays? Did situation after Morrowind's raiding guilds wipe got any better?

The classes:
- Nightblade
I want to talk about this class first because I used to main Magica Nightblade. What an unfortunate choice... Magica Nightblade always had it's issues but the biggest one is the fact that it shares skills with Stamina Nightblade which on other hand is always the top pick for PVP. Every buff makes Stamblade stronger. Till DB patch Magblades where actually quite competetive, I would even say that Magica Nightblade was easly in Top 3 and even Top 1 in TG. But Dark Cloak nerf happened. Turns out that ability to remove DOTs was a critical for surviabilty, who would have guessed. Also with the time Meteors could no longer be evaded that way and then Cloak started to be bugged and everything was pulling ones out of it. Sad story. That was especialy brutal considering the fact that while NBs were runing lights/mediums, everyone else was running heavy armor. Heavy armor could be the soluton for Magblades but damage was lacking and Clench/Fear+Assasins Will+Meteor were the only reliable combo we had. Magica Nightblades are great only for Bombing. When it comes to dynamic gameplay, they got thrown into the trash can long ago. For so many years it is still on the... bottom (crying). Stamblades on the other hand became great One-shoters (Heavy Bow Attack+Incap+Procs) at least till Morrowind. Now they are just okish. I am hoping that heavy attacks buffs will change that state. It's very nice that NB has now access to class snare removal, but since skills like Race Against Time exists, Phantasmal Escape is just a cheaper option and way too late. I do also like Grim Focus rework. Shade seems to be working pretty fine nowadays, that also makes me happy, but all those changes are not really enough to bring the class to it's former glory. Damage in PVP enviroment isn't that reliable against extremely tanky targets, and high risk, high reward strategy doesn't really apply for Nightblade gameplay anymore. And seriously bring Agony back, that skill was dope. Made ganking so much funnier, who uses that suicide skill alternative anyway?

- Dragonknight
The reason I made my Dragonknight long ago was the ability to reflect Meteors. And mates, that was hecking biblical. When I was recently checking my DK's skills I almost got a stroke realizing that neither of Scale's morphs reflects projectiles anymore. Instead we got raw damage reduction from projectiles... I do consider this to be very unfunny joke. Ability to reflect was for most of the time higly connected to DK class, why can't it just stay that way? Magica DK used to be OP in Vanilla. That changed drastically in 1.6 when they noted a little downhill, but they were doing pretty well in hands of experienced players. They were suffering from splitting damage types on skills. That got mostly solved out... but those Scales folks. There is no better feeling that Reflecting someone's Meteor and same time Leaping into his face. The fact, Leap has Magica morph sparks joy tho. Stam DK, especially with Wrecking Blow+Leap combo was great for improving the mood. But... I didn't really accept Stam DKs anymore after from Flame Knights they became Poison Knights. It simply broke immersion. What was the profit? Above 60K DPS in DB patch. It's not like Stam DK wasn't Top on PVE DPS patch before... Those pesky unwanted changes mates.

- Sorcerer
Was Magica Sorcerer ever bad? Well, they lacked "basic" DPS at certain time... Beyond that, they were almost always Top picks for PVE and PVP. It's the same even now, but with some limitations. Shields were always the hot subject. Some of you may remember but at the time, Harness Magica didn't provide protection against physical damage. Magsorcs were doing fine, even constant nerfing makes them playable. Yet I never understood reasoning behind shield duration nerf. In PVP enviroment you are forced to reapply them more often than 20s anyway. Zenimax made a hit on PVE doing people. How dared they. Wish stun on Crystal Fragment was back. Sorceror has so many usefull skills, that thing was saving from necessity of sloting other CCs. Beyond Streak of course. "Pets were a mistake", they are useful now, but hey let them be an alterantive for Classic Sorceror gameplay PVE and PVP wise. Not something that surpasses it. How about the good stuff now: Overload. Oh boy, dungeon and vMA builds easy making 40-60k DPS. For a short amount of time, but hey. It was fun and the problem is that it no longer works that way. No matter what you heard Stam Sorc were and are just fine. They might have had healing problems and lack of stamina morphs, but they never seem to need more. Uppercut nerf somewhat closed them opportunity to main 2 handed weapon tho. They are pleasant class to play nowadays, yet I liked them more in One Tamriel timeframe.

- Templar
The worst vanilla class? Maybe, but the fact I wasn't particulary fond of the class doesn't mean it was bad. Matter in fact Stam Templars had extreme damage in PVE, their sustain on bosses was the worst of all, that is true. When it comes to utility, Stam Templars were great for PVP having access to best Cleanse and stamina passive healing with Major Mending. Repentence should be as good as before but at least it works now (Morrowind fashbacks). Magica Templar was always good in PVP. In direct fighting, dark flare ganking and heal botting (insert we don't do that here meme). Beyond support abilites Templars are looking pretty fine. Yup, they used to provide best sets of buffs for dungeons and trials. Most of the classes have access to similar tools now. Another example of class identity crisis.

Summary:
- Identity crisis took away significant portions of tools and mechanics away from Vanilla Classes, causing feel of powerlessness.
- Sustain and Buff changes made PVE content painful to play. Uniqness of the classes in PVE role got significantly diminished.
- Same old going METAs still plaguing PVP giving people idea, that Zenimax doesn’t want to fix features causing imbalance. (Swiss knife in form of heavy armor)
- Enourmous PVE DPS only contributes to overland content being laughably easy and mechanic breaking. Still, no significant improvements or reworks on content that already is in the game.
- Bursty enviroment was working so much better for PVP and PVE skill wise.
- Visible changes attacking solo and small scale playstyles in PVP department.
- Plenty of quality of life improvments and new esthetic possibilities.
- Great changes for Race’s passives and improving utility of already existing skills.

Thoughts:
There are different type of players. While most of you who like changes will stay with ESO forever. I am on the other hand can’t really stand changes that constantly sabotages well known and balanced playstyles in favor of sole need of changes. People who are coming here for content will probably say: Hey, this game didn’t change at all. That is incorrect in so many ways. Aspects that affect you may have not changed, but those aspects I am talking about here did. Unfortunately they did go in the wrong direction. There is constant feel of powerlessness in gameplay, there are plays I can’t perform no more that were making me feel good before. It feels so much different. It is same game visually but so much different gameplay wise. Couldn’t we have all the content and good changes combined with great aspects we had before? Zenimax doesn’t learn from succesful iterations and I hope it will change one day.

Perhaps we can have Classic ESO at some point, so veteran players like me can come back and enjoy the game as they always desired. You never know your best days before they pass.

My apologies for mediocre English (my second language).

Commancho

It would be much easier and shorter if you would write to which builds you are refering to (being nerfed & dimished).

Nemesis7884

for me - to be quite honest and without sounding rude - a returning players perspective is the least interesting - a completely new players brings an out of the box perspective or perspectives from other games that is valuable because you might develop tunnel vision and miss the forest because of the trees...and a veteran players perspective is valuable because he knows the game in and out and has experienced its evolution...

a returning players has kinda neither and will always compare everything to when he left without having the evolution that happened in between... i am just not sure how useful that is...

Chevaliemew

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

for me - to be quite honest and without sounding rude - a returning players perspective is the least interesting - a completely new players brings an out of the box perspective or perspectives from other games that is valuable because you might develop tunnel vision and miss the forest because of the trees...and a veteran players perspective is valuable because he knows the game in and out and has experienced its evolution...

a returning players has kinda neither and will always compare everything to when he left without having the evolution that happened in between... i am just not sure how useful that is...

You may have not read everything, but I was monitoring "evolution", login once in awhile and adapting to ongoing standards. So said standards simply didn't keep me in game. That is the point here.

Commancho wrote: »

It would be much easier and shorter if you would write to which builds you are refering to (being nerfed & dimished).

In general PVP around 1.6-2.3 used to be focused on sustain, glass cannon META. Those builds still exist but are far from the META. It applies to all the vanilla classes.

Nanfoodle

(((dodge roll from wall of text)))

WOW that was close.

preevious

Well, I can understand and empathize with what you say, but I fear that you are mostly a victim of the rosy retrospection bias.

We are all hard-wired to remember more fondlier than they deserve the time when we "peaked", and also hard-wired to favor the status quo and reject changes.
Yes, the game has changed. Did those changes improve the game overall? Most probably, yes, but it's easier to focus on the negatives than on the positives.

You might think the game was better before morriwind, but it's mostly because that's the time you played the most.

Of course, your post is well constructed, but it contains only personnal opinions.

ChimpyChumpy

Wha'ts competitive PVP? Cyrodiil? Or did individual players get individual rankings outside of AP farming at one point?

I'm newish, having played for less than a year and I can't imagine cyro ever having been more than meant for AP farming. Trade keeps, run around a tower or log pile, log out and log back into another character to get 25k AP. Kudos to the 1v xers who sit around all day looking for potatoes in PVE gear and PVE CP allocation (I was one of the potatoes for a long while and I managed to get 6 million AP easily enough) to smash and then pat themselves on the back for being so good. If it was ever more than this I'm curious as to how it was so "much more".

It's ok to play something else, BDO looks good, OSRS looks good too.

To summarize PVP in ESO is meant for the following:

Cyro - gold geode farming and golden vendor
BG- random normal for levelling characters

AS for classes, zenimax has to bring in new skills for older players or the game will get boring. If you really want class identity you need to eliminate all the other skill lines, werewolf, vampire, fighter's guild (probably mages too), psijiic and probably all weapon abilities as well.

furiouslog

I don't know where you get this idea that vMA is getting steamrolled. I've been doing it for a while and still don't have flawless. Maybe I suck, or maybe I've topped out at the apex of my capability (same thing really), but I don't see the steamrolling happening. People doing it for the first time still suffer as much as they did in the old days, if narratives are any indication. I think you've just lost your perspective. The leaderboards do not fill up every week, and if they do, it's only on sorcs and templars. Thousands of people play who have not yet cleared it despite their efforts, I personally know some that do vet trials, and it's not just healers and tanks.

Overland is definitely pretty easy, if you are an experienced CP 810 player. My kids play, and they struggled with some of the regular zone content as they were learning to play. Again, a matter of perspective. If you set baseline difficulty at the CP810 level, newer players will get frustrated and leave. You probably don't remember what that feels like. You're doing it now with your knowledge and muscle memory, and it's amazingly easy. You can't remove those skills from yourself, so you can't relate to anyone who does not find it easy - but these people exist, I assure you.

GeorgeBlack

They are killing it

Nanfoodle

MMOs change, they are organic in nature. Ether you love MMOs for what they are or you don't. I have returned to EQ1 a dozen times since 1999 and sometimes I loved how they game changed and sometimes I didn't. Other games never changed and died. Give it time and you could find a new place in ESO you will enjoy. Often when the changes were to big to digest when going back to an MMO I left, I would start by rolling a new char and releveling process. It often helps you get a sense of what direction the Devs are taking.

xXMeowMeowXx

You’re just out of touch because performance is the worst thing.
Skills not firing and lag on top of lag with cast times added to ulties.

Everything got nerfed for awhile.

Actually things are still getting nerfed because of the nerflings and unusual combat changes made by the devs.

did the classes get homogenized, yh

Is the game still lots of fun when it works, yh

Has performance been fixed, nopes

Welcome Back

idk

Commancho wrote: »

It would be much easier and shorter if you would write to which builds you are refering to (being nerfed & dimished).

I agree but in OP's defense, they did call it a rant which pretty much means it was not well thought out.

To OP, if you are truly hoping Zos will take the time to read your post here then I suggest you take the time to make it look like you have given this some thought vs just spewing out what comes to mind. Having them wonder when you will get to the point is not a good way to get their attention as they see enough mindless rants in the forums.

Just a suggestion.

Mancombe_Nosehair

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

idk

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

LOL. Not only read but commented in the thread to acknowledge it because it was constructive and well-thought feedback. Not a rant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6671899/#Comment_6671899

You could very well be right that Zos does not pay much attention to posts that are rants vs well thought out. Heck, I admit I did not waste my time reading much of that wall of words because it was failing to get to the point.

Mancombe_Nosehair

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

LOL. Not only read but commented in the thread to acknowledge it because it was constructive and well-thought feedback. Not a rant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6671899/#Comment_6671899

You could very well be right that Zos does not pay much attention to posts that are rants vs well thought out. Heck, I admit I did not waste my time reading much of that wall of words because it was failing to get to the point.

True, but that post was not on the general section, but in the Public Test Server section (I jest:) )

Nyteshade

Forms are a negate place. I just want to say I appreciate the effort you put into this. And I can't disagree with much of it overall.
A returning players well thought out perspective is interesting.

idk

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

LOL. Not only read but commented in the thread to acknowledge it because it was constructive and well-thought feedback. Not a rant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6671899/#Comment_6671899

You could very well be right that Zos does not pay much attention to posts that are rants vs well thought out. Heck, I admit I did not waste my time reading much of that wall of words because it was failing to get to the point.

True, but that is the pst thread;)

What? The only difference between one thread created by a player and another thread created by a player is how well thought out and written the OP is and how constructive the communication is. The OP of this thread even admits this is just a rant.

So I have no idea what you mean by that is the pst thread. lol.

zvavi

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

LOL. Not only read but commented in the thread to acknowledge it because it was constructive and well-thought feedback. Not a rant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6671899/#Comment_6671899

You could very well be right that Zos does not pay much attention to posts that are rants vs well thought out. Heck, I admit I did not waste my time reading much of that wall of words because it was failing to get to the point.

True, but that is the pst thread;)

What? The only difference between one thread created by a player and another thread created by a player is how well thought out and written the OP is and how constructive the communication is. The OP of this thread even admits this is just a rant.

So I have no idea what you mean by that is the pst thread. lol.

I have seen many well though and spoken posts, giving an example of 1 where they commented in the last year... Eh. Not really communicating with your players.

Chevaliemew

preevious wrote: »

Well, I can understand and empathize with what you say, but I fear that you are mostly a victim of the rosy retrospection bias.

We are all hard-wired to remember more fondlier than they deserve the time when we "peaked", and also hard-wired to favor the status quo and reject changes.
Yes, the game has changed. Did those changes improve the game overall? Most probably, yes, but it's easier to focus on the negatives than on the positives.

You might think the game was better before morriwind, but it's mostly because that's the time you played the most.

Of course, your post is well constructed, but it contains only personnal opinions.

Somehow I do really like your anwser and I do agree. Overall game improved, it just got neglected in the certain areas. Well, at least in my opinion.

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

Wha'ts competitive PVP? Cyrodiil? Or did individual players get individual rankings outside of AP farming at one point?

I'm newish, having played for less than a year and I can't imagine cyro ever having been more than meant for AP farming. Trade keeps, run around a tower or log pile, log out and log back into another character to get 25k AP. Kudos to the 1v xers who sit around all day looking for potatoes in PVE gear and PVE CP allocation (I was one of the potatoes for a long while and I managed to get 6 million AP easily enough) to smash and then pat themselves on the back for being so good. If it was ever more than this I'm curious as to how it was so "much more".

It's ok to play something else, BDO looks good, OSRS looks good too.

To summarize PVP in ESO is meant for the following:

Cyro - gold geode farming and golden vendor
BG- random normal for levelling characters

AS for classes, zenimax has to bring in new skills for older players or the game will get boring. If you really want class identity you need to eliminate all the other skill lines, werewolf, vampire, fighter's guild (probably mages too), psijiic and probably all weapon abilities as well.

You look for practical side of Cyrodil. Yet, there is something else. Being able to kite better players is also something giving pleasure, killing some of them is even better. Yet, it usually ends up in stalemate, remembering nicknames and not really harassing each other anymore. At the end of the day succesfull 1vX or duo is what I was always looking for in Cyrodil. There is no practical reason, just "that type of fun".

furiouslog wrote: »

I don't know where you get this idea that vMA is getting steamrolled. I've been doing it for a while and still don't have flawless. Maybe I suck, or maybe I've topped out at the apex of my capability (same thing really), but I don't see the steamrolling happening. People doing it for the first time still suffer as much as they did in the old days, if narratives are any indication. I think you've just lost your perspective. The leaderboards do not fill up every week, and if they do, it's only on sorcs and templars. Thousands of people play who have not yet cleared it despite their efforts, I personally know some that do vet trials, and it's not just healers and tanks.

Overland is definitely pretty easy, if you are an experienced CP 810 player. My kids play, and they struggled with some of the regular zone content as they were learning to play. Again, a matter of perspective. If you set baseline difficulty at the CP810 level, newer players will get frustrated and leave. You probably don't remember what that feels like. You're doing it now with your knowledge and muscle memory, and it's amazingly easy. You can't remove those skills from yourself, so you can't relate to anyone who does not find it easy - but these people exist, I assure you.

Yes, those pesky muscle memories making me make light attack before every skill then block cancel after. Can't really fight it. Due to higher DPS vMA is being made so much quicker. It really always was about memorizing. I have seen people doing it in around 23 minutes. That's significant improvment, it used to take around 50 minutes on the begining.

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

You’re just out of touch because performance is the worst thing.
Skills not firing and lag on top of lag with cast times added to ulties.

Everything got nerfed for awhile.

Actually things are still getting nerfed because of the nerflings and unusual combat changes made by the devs.

did the classes get homogenized, yh

Is the game still lots of fun when it works, yh

Has performance been fixed, nopes

Welcome Back

Sounds like these didn't change that much after all. Those processes started long ago.
It's not that fun, where your old friends already gave up on the game for good.

idk

zvavi wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter how well or badly people here write; nobody at Zos, apart from the mods, pays the slightest bit of attention to the forum.

The days of discussing things with developers on the forum, if there was ever a time, are long gone.

LOL. Not only read but commented in the thread to acknowledge it because it was constructive and well-thought feedback. Not a rant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6671899/#Comment_6671899

You could very well be right that Zos does not pay much attention to posts that are rants vs well thought out. Heck, I admit I did not waste my time reading much of that wall of words because it was failing to get to the point.

True, but that is the pst thread;)

What? The only difference between one thread created by a player and another thread created by a player is how well thought out and written the OP is and how constructive the communication is. The OP of this thread even admits this is just a rant.

So I have no idea what you mean by that is the pst thread. lol.

I have seen many well though and spoken posts, giving an example of 1 where they commented in the last year... Eh. Not really communicating with your players.

The person I quoted said that Zos does not read what we post regardless of how well it is written. I was merely pointing out in a clear and undeniable manner than Zos does. Of course, that does not mean Zos will post in each thread they read. There is really no point to it.

Further, if Zos is going to read something they are going to read something that has had some thought put into it vs a rambling wall of words rant that we have here. Even OP acknowledges this is just a rant.

fastolfv_ESO

cyros in its worst state it has ever been in, both in the meta and the screwed up engine. If you enjoy pvp eso is not for you atm or any of us who enjoy it

eKsDee

furiouslog wrote: »

I don't know where you get this idea that vMA is getting steamrolled. I've been doing it for a while and still don't have flawless. Maybe I suck, or maybe I've topped out at the apex of my capability (same thing really), but I don't see the steamrolling happening. People doing it for the first time still suffer as much as they did in the old days, if narratives are any indication. I think you've just lost your perspective. The leaderboards do not fill up every week, and if they do, it's only on sorcs and templars. Thousands of people play who have not yet cleared it despite their efforts, I personally know some that do vet trials, and it's not just healers and tanks.

Overland is definitely pretty easy, if you are an experienced CP 810 player. My kids play, and they struggled with some of the regular zone content as they were learning to play. Again, a matter of perspective. If you set baseline difficulty at the CP810 level, newer players will get frustrated and leave. You probably don't remember what that feels like. You're doing it now with your knowledge and muscle memory, and it's amazingly easy. You can't remove those skills from yourself, so you can't relate to anyone who does not find it easy - but these people exist, I assure you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraXZtHn6NE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zXF4zFZCU

MartiniDaniels

Nice write-up, good quality rant.
Removing reflect from wings and dodge chance was one of the lamest changes ever. This how fun is removed.
Major evasion and +50% projectile damage reductions are just plain hard counters with no option to counterplay them, other then fact that ZOS included that 25% into class aoe burst/spammables, so anybody who don't slot major evasion in melee is just instantly wrecked.

Chevaliemew

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

cyros in its worst state it has ever been in, both in the meta and the screwed up engine. If you enjoy pvp eso is not for you atm or any of us who enjoy it

I am already feeling you mate.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Nice write-up, good quality rant.
Removing reflect from wings and dodge chance was one of the lamest changes ever. This how fun is removed.
Major evasion and +50% projectile damage reductions are just plain hard counters with no option to counterplay them, other then fact that ZOS included that 25% into class aoe burst/spammables, so anybody who don't slot major evasion in melee is just instantly wrecked.

You see my perspective pretty well, I see. Yea, exchanging mechanic for raw stat doesn't sound fun at all.

Vasoka wrote: »

Imagine being a no life enough to write this giant wall of ranting cry text over nonsensical "issues" in the game.

"nonsensical" pffy
Those are the only ones that actually matter for me. That was straight rude mate.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Vasoka wrote: »

Imagine being a no life enough to write this giant wall of ranting cry text over nonsensical "issues" in the game.

Add to that a game you don't even play, and haven't played for many years.

False, I do play it. For now at least.
Knowing how things were, was keeping me from staying in the game for longer than a week. Don't blame me here. At least I am having better perspective on how far certain things went. And... mostly in the wrong direction.

Veinblood1965

Remember Paragraphs are your friend. You have many friends!

Well laid out OP, agree with a lot of that.

furiouslog

eKsDee wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraXZtHn6NE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zXF4zFZCU

Yes, people who have played vMA over and over and over again to the point where they have complete mastery of the mechanics can perform extraordinary challenges. These people did not just wake up and were suddenly able to do this stuff. They practiced parsing, they practiced the arena. They may also possess extraordinary inherent talent.

No one who struggles with vMA is going to make a video showing their crappy runs. I know there are videos out there showing amazing things in vMA (and vDSA and vBRP) that make it look easy. As I already said, there is a large unseen population of players who struggle with arenas. I infer from your posting of these videos as a counterpoint that you are saying that the power creep is a real thing and that vMA has gotten easier. My response to that is that if power creep exists, it is difficult to measure because the top players in this game continue to push themselves to get better and be more perfect at execution, and it's impossible to separate and measure that factor from any independent game design factor that makes it easier to achieve content without having access to all of the data needed, which we never will. Only ZOS has the ability to do that. Are those videos evidence of power creep, or of players who invested considerable time in learning the content well enough to clear at that level? It could be either, or it could be a mix of the two. But it proves nothing.

GeorgeBlack

furiouslog wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraXZtHn6NE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zXF4zFZCU

Yes, people who have played vMA over and over and over again to the point where they have complete mastery of the mechanics can perform extraordinary challenges. These people did not just wake up and were suddenly able to do this stuff. They practiced parsing, they practiced the arena. They may also possess extraordinary inherent talent.

No one who struggles with vMA is going to make a video showing their crappy runs. I know there are videos out there showing amazing things in vMA (and vDSA and vBRP) that make it look easy. As I already said, there is a large unseen population of players who struggle with arenas. I infer from your posting of these videos as a counterpoint that you are saying that the power creep is a real thing and that vMA has gotten easier. My response to that is that if power creep exists, it is difficult to measure because the top players in this game continue to push themselves to get better and be more perfect at execution, and it's impossible to separate and measure that factor from any independent game design factor that makes it easier to achieve content without having access to all of the data needed, which we never will. Only ZOS has the ability to do that. Are those videos evidence of power creep, or of players who invested considerable time in learning the content well enough to clear at that level? It could be either, or it could be a mix of the two. But it proves nothing.

Actually, vMA was always ez... It was the rng that made ot a difficult experience. I honestly woke up one day and wanted to try Cruel Flurry.
StamDK DW/Bow VO/Hundings and StormFist. I didnt even had the vMA bow for half my attempts.

As for your denial of power creep....

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Community Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for your understanding

furiouslog

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Actually, vMA was always ez... It was the rng that made ot a difficult experience. I honestly woke up one day and wanted to try Cruel Flurry.
StamDK DW/Bow VO/Hundings and StormFist. I didnt even had the vMA bow for half my attempts.

As for your denial of power creep....

I'm not denying that power creep exists, I'm saying that it is not measurable relative to the increase in skill as players practice and get better at different aspects of the game without having all of the necessary data. You'd need to hold that factor constant to measure the power creep, and you'd need to do it across a population of players at varying levels of skill. Someone who gets super good at this game starts experiencing the game getting easier. What's the driver?

One way to objectively measure "power creep" is to run an algorithm that solves for maximum dps for the available sets and skill combinations over time, holding defense as a constant, with simulated and repeatable optimized combat conditions. That would tell you with clear numbers what the extent of the creep was.I don't think anyone has done that. If they have, please let me know. I'd love to see it. Any other claims are spurious and unproven.

kylewwefan

What did you read that made you want to come back?

Not even baiting.

The forum is always cluttered with this or that is broken.

I can’t remember PvP ever being super smooth and great and something people would want to do. It certainly hasn’t got any better. Ever. It goes from being super broken to just a little bit broken. Never really good.

Where do you read good stuff about Cyrodiil?

Malmai

Chevaliemew wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

for me - to be quite honest and without sounding rude - a returning players perspective is the least interesting - a completely new players brings an out of the box perspective or perspectives from other games that is valuable because you might develop tunnel vision and miss the forest because of the trees...and a veteran players perspective is valuable because he knows the game in and out and has experienced its evolution...

a returning players has kinda neither and will always compare everything to when he left without having the evolution that happened in between... i am just not sure how useful that is...

You may have not read everything, but I was monitoring "evolution", login once in awhile and adapting to ongoing standards. So said standards simply didn't keep me in game. That is the point here.

Commancho wrote: »

It would be much easier and shorter if you would write to which builds you are refering to (being nerfed & dimished).

In general PVP around 1.6-2.3 used to be focused on sustain, glass cannon META. Those builds still exist but are far from the META. It applies to all the vanilla classes.