New Vamp Can Be OP

100p.weasel_ESO

Testing the new vampire skill line I think it could be a little OP for certain builds. I'm running a Templar Tank-Healer with absolute *** magic stats and I can easily out heal Cold Blooded while getting that insane boost which makes it effectively no cost even in stage 4. Stacking HoTs I'm at over 15k+ (20k+ with living dark) HPS and Radiant Oppression is 35k in ideal condition not counting crit or vampire lord boost. Since I have a lot of points into defense I can imagine what these numbers will look like for a dedicated templar-healer. I also imagine it will be super easy to sit in Blood Mist, eat damage, and sprint away invisible in PvP. Is there a cap for the heal for Taste For Blood on toggle off? If not, I can guarantee a full health restore in any 'oh ***' moment on top of the full heal you get from going vampire lord it seems way too over tuned.

Austinseph1

Not nearly as op as you think it will be, in PvP healing is reduced by 60% and enemies can smack you down very quickly even with them being very tanky. That along with the extra fire damage you will be smacked any time you meet a mag dps, much less a MagDK. In pve its "Possible" to use but without being very knowlegable about mechanics you wont use it in vet trials or maybe many other scenarios... I'm not saying you wont see people using it, its just that the risk to reward wouldn't be worth it in most scenarios and you will meet plenty of very average players lying on the floor half the time because they thought vamp was cool. It will have an entry skill gap over what you will see in casual play. You could play vamp with many downsides or you could just play a class build that is quite possibly just as strong without any risk or the strong downsides. Vamp just sounds like an unnecessary hassle now.

Dracane

The vampire skillline is clearly exclusively made and balanced with pvp in mind. Simmering Frenzy is definately not so easy to maintain there.

Most vampire abilities either weaken you for what they give you or want you to get yourself in danger to get their full potential.

100p.weasel_ESO

I totally forgot about PvP healing reduction. 20% extra cost + fire damage penalty and 60% less effective heals on top of skills that cost health yeah that just isn't going to work. I guess it really is built around stealth/hit and run playstyle.PvE you can wrek *** tho. Bone Shield + Bloody Mist + Bat Swarm is some pretty good AoE damage

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

Firstmep

Shimmering Frenzy is a bit wierd on PTS right now, Prismatic Cost reduce doesnt seem to play well with it.
My Breton Magplar stage 4 vamp has an hp cost of about 1700/ sec without reduce cost glyphs, with them on it only drops to 1400 which makes 0 sense.
If the glyph would kick in after the cost increase of Shimmering morph it should be around 1100/sec(i am using infused jewellery which makes prismatic enchant 201 per piece), if it kicks in before the ramping cost increase it should be closer to 800/sec.
In comparison the magicka cost reduction works perfectly for mist form.
On the whole templar thing: They need to stop making vamp work so well with vamp, then people wont want to use it XD

wheem_ESO

100p.weasel_ESO wrote: »

I guess it really is built around stealth/hit and run playstyle.

That's how it looks to me. Gankers can benefit from significant amounts of extra spell/weapon damage during their gank attempts, while the risk-vs-reward just doesn't seem worth it for most other builds. I find this fairly depressing, both since I despise ganking and think it sucks all the fun out of MMO-PvP, and because my Magicka Necromancer could really use some better CC options (or better offense in general, really, since I don't gimmick it up with Harmony).

Maybe there will end up being some niche builds that center around getting the Vampire ultimate really cheap, and using it frequently, but I still doubt it'll be competitive with RandomStaminaPlayer#24027416 who's simply pounding away at his/her Dizzying Swing key while sitting on a Dawnbreaker or Onslaught, and can quite literally spam dodge rolls (even in no-CP) should things go bad.

The Vampire rework has been a really big disappointment for me, for numerous reasons. And I doubt we'll get the changes necessary to actually make it worthwhile outside of ganks and roleplay.

Xarc

Ok guys lets talk about this new pvp-meta.

We had strong builds. now Zenimax reduces healing -20% and UP the whole damages. How do you think players will react in therm of gears ?
I think people will get stronger than never seen before.

Austinseph1

And when you use blood frenzy you wont be affected by any sets that "when you heal somebody they gain x effect" so you may miss out on some group buffs as well... It just wont be worth running vamp in a group so It's basically a solo or dummy parse skill line. You are stuck with using blood scion or face a 20% increase for incredibly useful ultimates for burst or aoe phases... 20% more for Major Vuln if you are necro... you have to try way too hard to try and make it work and even then it won't be worth the downsides. The only way it becomes "Worth" it is when somebody finds a combination that greatly exploits a single part of the vampire that the Dev's didn't intend and it just gets nerfed for the next 2 years like WW was. It will probably die off after the hype is gone and you see how much you actually have to give for the sake of an RP build.

wheem_ESO

Xarcus wrote: »

Ok guys lets talk about this new pvp-meta.

We had strong builds. now Zenimax reduces healing -20% and UP the whole damages. How do you think players will react in therm of gears ?
I think people will get stronger than never seen before.

I don't know/care about CP-enabled PvP, but I think it may still be possible to build really tanky/survivable there.

For no-CP, and more specifically Battlegrounds, I think Magicka Sorcerers that are used to playing glass cannon setups will probably do OK, but most other Magicka setups will be really bad compared to Stamina. While Stamina has been dominant for multiple years now, I believe it's probably about to get a lot worse (especially if Stuhn's doesn't get nerfed into the ground, or changed to something else entirely). Being a 1-button hero with Dizzying Swing is going to get even more powerful with the healing and defensive set nerfs, and the uptime on Stamina Necromancers' Major Defile wasn't touched at all.

Dracane

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

Deathlord92

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

Can’t tell you how many times I thought this as well lmfao 🤣

MashmalloMan

Dracane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

Thinking about it, I agree. It's cool you can toggle it, but it should have some sort of penalty for keeping it up. My idea would not be to have a high initial cost, but something similar to Streak's stacking cost. Since the ability ticks every second, the cost increase should too.

Basically, make it a little cheaper than it is right now, but add a 4s duration cost debuff that stacks every second your in Mistform. Any time you use Mistform within the 4s like Streak or Dodge, the buff duration is refreshed.

So something like +5-10% cost every second could stack up pretty quickly if the Vampire chooses to use it to often without breaks, forcing them to eventually put themselves on cooldown for the 4s to stop the cost debuff from getting too high.

Adding a high initial cost defeats some of the purpose on activating it when you need it which I think is a fun mechanic. The issue is keeping it up 24/7 for those unkillable builds which can easily mitigate the low cost per second. We should not aim to punish people who are using it strategically.

Iskiab

Dracane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

It’s not just magplar, it’s like a magicka block. So weird, one comment complains mag are underpowered and the next comment asks for an ability mag would mostly use to be nerfed.

Dracane

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

It’s not just magplar, it’s like a magicka block. So weird, one comment complains mag are underpowered and the next comment asks for an ability mag would mostly use to be nerfed.

It is an issue with Templars for they can restore so much magicka even in mistform with their rune focus.
This mechanic is not exclusive to Templars, it is most potent on them for sure though. And it will be even stronger now where they get like 400 spell damage after having used it.

Magicka is mostly underpowered, but some things are cancerous and mistform will be twice as annoying as it already is.

Nyteshade

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

It’s not just magplar, it’s like a magicka block. So weird, one comment complains mag are underpowered and the next comment asks for an ability mag would mostly use to be nerfed.

It is an issue with Templars for they can restore so much magicka even in mistform with their rune focus.
This mechanic is not exclusive to Templars, it is most potent on them for sure though. And it will be even stronger now where they get like 400 spell damage after having used it.

Magicka is mostly underpowered, but some things are cancerous and mistform will be twice as annoying as it already is.

I don't know, Vamps will be so weak and overall easy to kill now, that I'm not even worried about if they get one good skill. Ya it can be annoying but I'm not about setting them up or asking for changes that will make them 100% easy targets.

Maulkin

Firstmep wrote: »

They need to stop making vamp work so well with vamp, then people wont want to use it

Makes sense

Emma_Overload

Nyteshade wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

The thing that makes me very salty, particularly in regards to templar since they use it mostly, is that mistform has no strict duration anymore.

On live, I count the seconds and immediately streak through them after it ends to give them a blow. Next patch I can predict nothing and there is no penalty for popping in and out of mistform since the initial activation has no extra cost associated with it.

The mistform change is really bad and I think templar will be even more cancerous next patch. Never thought this was possible. I think the activation should cost something extra and then the additional seconds can have that outrageously low cost.

It’s not just magplar, it’s like a magicka block. So weird, one comment complains mag are underpowered and the next comment asks for an ability mag would mostly use to be nerfed.

It is an issue with Templars for they can restore so much magicka even in mistform with their rune focus.
This mechanic is not exclusive to Templars, it is most potent on them for sure though. And it will be even stronger now where they get like 400 spell damage after having used it.

Magicka is mostly underpowered, but some things are cancerous and mistform will be twice as annoying as it already is.

I don't know, Vamps will be so weak and overall easy to kill now, that I'm not even worried about if they get one good skill. Ya it can be annoying but I'm not about setting them up or asking for changes that will make them 100% easy targets.

I agree. It's way too early to be asking for nerfs for a skill line that has so many drawbacks, it may be unplayable.

Thevampirenight

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers should not even beable to be Vampires, your harnessing the power of sunlight for crying out loud.

Given Magicial power of the Vampire comes from the same place as the magicial Power for the Templar its completely lore friendly. I mean Vampires are weak to fire yet can use fire magic just fine. Its the same with Sunlight. All the Vampire is doing is drawing upon energy that comes from Aetherius. So is a Templar, they are also drawing upon the same energy to power their spells.

Mayrael

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

Ok guys lets talk about this new pvp-meta.

We had strong builds. now Zenimax reduces healing -20% and UP the whole damages. How do you think players will react in therm of gears ?
I think people will get stronger than never seen before.

I don't know/care about CP-enabled PvP, but I think it may still be possible to build really tanky/survivable there.

For no-CP, and more specifically Battlegrounds, I think Magicka Sorcerers that are used to playing glass cannon setups will probably do OK, but most other Magicka setups will be really bad compared to Stamina. While Stamina has been dominant for multiple years now, I believe it's probably about to get a lot worse (especially if Stuhn's doesn't get nerfed into the ground, or changed to something else entirely). Being a 1-button hero with Dizzying Swing is going to get even more powerful with the healing and defensive set nerfs, and the uptime on Stamina Necromancers' Major Defile wasn't touched at all.

Amen. This pretty much sums it all up.

Firstmep

Maulkin wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They need to stop making vamp work so well with vamp, then people wont want to use it

Makes sense

Haha brain lag, I meant Templar with vamp ofc. XD