Please reconsider Ring of the Wild Hunt

Galarthor

Titel basically say it all.

The reasoning behind it is, that as it stands the server / client has issues with the speeds that can already be achieved. True it is better than it was a couple of updates ago. But there are still enough situations and builds that allow the player to become untargetable unless they run straight at you. Allowing for even more speed will only exacerbate the issue. And giving up some 5pc bonus is a small price to become almost unkillable (walking through AoEs can still kill you).

@ZOS we have been down that road, and you yourself noticed how bad it was and reduced the max speed players can reach, mostly fixing the issue. Why now revert to this broken system of speeds higher than your code or hardware can handle? Why intentionally break your own game?

And if you think it is a good idea for PvE, though I don't really see why anybody would really want to wear it there, then at least remove the in-combat speed in PvP via Battlespirit.

Gilvoth

no thank you!
myself and many other people have been asking for increased speeds both sneak and running now for a very long time. Years infact, and ever since that HUGE sneak speed Nerf that destroyed sneak speeds like 4 years ago, we have been begging for it to return
so "NO"
i pray to God Ring of the Wild Hunt stays as is, and leave it alone!

raistin87

They are introducing the ring so that nightblades could run from everyone else using Malacath's

jadarock

Agreed op the servers cant handle what's going on atm . So we are going to be right back where we were with the targeting issues except now there's even less build trade off to achieve it. Cos zos....

LickingHistSap

Every other speed boost was destroyed with Murkmire. Please, just let us have this.

Galarthor

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you!
myself and many other people have been asking for increased speeds both sneak and running now for a very long time. Years infact, and ever since that HUGE sneak speed Nerf that destroyed sneak speeds like 4 years ago, we have been begging for it to return
so "NO"
i pray to God Ring of the Wild Hunt stays as is, and leave it alone!

I don't mind the out of combat component. But the in combat component will break the game again. And while I understand that you want to realize a certain fantasy in this game (we all do), if that fantasy breaks the game for everyone else then it should not be realized at the expense of all other players / builds. Especially since stamina builds already outperform magicka builds by so much and will be the main beneficiary of this new ring and the speed issues.

Lord_Eomer

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you!
myself and many other people have been asking for increased speeds both sneak and running now for a very long time. Years infact, and ever since that HUGE sneak speed Nerf that destroyed sneak speeds like 4 years ago, we have been begging for it to return
so "NO"
i pray to God Ring of the Wild Hunt stays as is, and leave it alone!

Yes also each mytic item offers unique bonus and wild hunt is best as is.

navystylz_ESO

Galarthor wrote: »

The reasoning behind it is, that as it stands the server / client has issues with the speeds that can already be achieved.

Dude they have been working on performance and are continue to work on it. Update 26 has a ton (albeit, PTS server performance is worse than live right now), and Update 27 and 28 will continue this. They have to design stuff with the idea that performance reaches a sweet point.

MartiniDaniels

Imagine bosmer stamsorc with this + steed
75% speed bonus without sprinting and sacrificing much. Woohoo!

Cellentel

I have not tested it myself, but I assume the 200% speed cap applies to this ring as well. If that’s the case, then this will not allow you go to faster than what is already possible (although it will make it easier to reach that limit).

Have you tested and confirmed that the ring ignores the speed cap? Or is this just speculation?

Aliyavana

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Imagine bosmer stamsorc with this + steed
75% speed bonus without sprinting and sacrificing much. Woohoo!

who still uses bosmer? they will be a minority problem if there is any left

MartiniDaniels

Aliyavana wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Imagine bosmer stamsorc with this + steed
75% speed bonus without sprinting and sacrificing much. Woohoo!

who still uses bosmer? they will be a minority problem if there is any left

There few here and there, though majority are AD of course.

RedReign

I mean this wasn't true in the past when you could reach super high speeds, why is it suddenly true now with much lesser speeds?

Galarthor

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

The reasoning behind it is, that as it stands the server / client has issues with the speeds that can already be achieved.

Dude they have been working on performance and are continue to work on it. Update 26 has a ton (albeit, PTS server performance is worse than live right now), and Update 27 and 28 will continue this. They have to design stuff with the idea that performance reaches a sweet point.

You are apparently new here. They have been "improving" the performance for years now. And more often than not it actually got worse. And even if they are actually improving it currently, then introduce this item once the server / client is ready for it. Don't introduce it in a stage where it can break the game!

Cellentel wrote: »

I have not tested it myself, but I assume the 200% speed cap applies to this ring as well. If that’s the case, then this will not allow you go to faster than what is already possible (although it will make it easier to reach that limit).

Have you tested and confirmed that the ring ignores the speed cap? Or is this just speculation?

Does not really matter, as the currently available speed builds already break the game in its current form. There is no good reason to add something that either allows you to achieve even more game breaking speeds or make game breaking speed more accessible.

lookstwice

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you!
myself and many other people have been asking for increased speeds both sneak and running now for a very long time. Years infact, and ever since that HUGE sneak speed Nerf that destroyed sneak speeds like 4 years ago, we have been begging for it to return
so "NO"
i pray to God Ring of the Wild Hunt stays as is, and leave it alone!

Please yes. I quit last time over it. Or disable the stupid thing in pvp if that's the issue. Man would love this for delves or just doing overland stuff and crafting.

katorga

jadarock wrote: »

Agreed op the servers cant handle what's going on atm . So we are going to be right back where we were with the targeting issues except now there's even less build trade off to achieve it. Cos zos....

You don't need server performance. Players can't target fast moving players all by themselves. Poor server performance is just icing on the cake. May have to dust off my stam sorc.

AinSoph

Cellentel wrote: »

I have not tested it myself, but I assume the 200% speed cap applies to this ring as well. If that’s the case, then this will not allow you go to faster than what is already possible (although it will make it easier to reach that limit).

Have you tested and confirmed that the ring ignores the speed cap? Or is this just speculation?

They mean that they want to reach that speed without using sprint

Kadoin

I can still bug all damage against me with 30 percent movement speed on live...

The problem is not a speed bug, but a physics bug that occurs when the player position value is truncated. I am guessing their collision system checks player position and uses exact value matching rather than a rounded value on floating point. That means if you know where to move in certain positions on the screen relative to players you can always avoid damage at any distance, movement speed just gives you time to move into that position better because it adds a static delay to skill transit time once you move a certain distance (another bug or intended?). This causes damage to drop because the skill thinks you are in one place, but your positional value is actually referencing another (because its off by a few decimal places, really ZOS?).

What they need to do is round the values in the positioning system to integer IF ONLY for that check. As long as they don't it don't matter what speed someone is moving if they know where to move relative to their opponent to trigger this bug, or the terrain locations in Cyro that also trigger this bug. This would also fix some bugs in PvE that would appear to be due to lag but aren't. However, it would mean that movement speed abusers now will come to the forums and rage...

But don't don't worry, I am sure ZOS knows what they are doing After all, there is no one around here that knows anyone that abuses these two bugs 100 percent of the time right?

...Right?

EDIT: I should also mention that that is all derived from randomly triggering the bug + testing to replicate it. And yes, no damage text or any "miss" or "dodge" occurs when that bug does.

VaranisArano

LickingHistSap wrote: »

Every other speed boost was destroyed with Murkmire. Please, just let us have this.

ZOS destroyed speed because it was causing targeting issues in PVP. That hasn't really changed.

So if this ring is causing targeting issues again, the real question is "Do you want it nerfed before it goes Live or afterwards, when ZOS belatedly realizes "right, this causes the same old problems?"

Rikumaru

No, it's fine. It's a mythic item, so yes it does require investment to place in your build compared to other options such as running 2 5 pc sets without single barring both while running a monster set. Not to mention you have mythic items such as Malacath's ring which will be pretty strong especially for no-cp. Seems perfectly inline with other mythic items.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Galarthor wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you!
myself and many other people have been asking for increased speeds both sneak and running now for a very long time. Years infact, and ever since that HUGE sneak speed Nerf that destroyed sneak speeds like 4 years ago, we have been begging for it to return
so "NO"
i pray to God Ring of the Wild Hunt stays as is, and leave it alone!

I don't mind the out of combat component. But the in combat component will break the game again. And while I understand that you want to realize a certain fantasy in this game (we all do), if that fantasy breaks the game for everyone else then it should not be realized at the expense of all other players / builds. Especially since stamina builds already outperform magicka builds by so much and will be the main beneficiary of this new ring and the speed issues.

I get what are you saying but if you remove the speed in combat what's the point?

Mythic item are not exactly free.

Need the chapter/dlc.
Need a new skill line.
Need to level up the said skill line.
Need to be founded and i guess will not be that easy.
Need to sacrifice a 5p or monster set.

Also is not like everyone is going to use it or even get it.

Now they need to be comparable to 5p set or monster set,without this combat speed then it's simply not comparable.

I would like to wait to see in action,it's also the main reason i did buy the chapters after the nerf to bloodspawn and trollking and im thinking to try it with some change on my main build.

If then it's a problem change it a bit but without the said movement speed in combat is just terrible,also if combat bug strike the you will also lose the out of combat strenght.
If the problem is because make it easier to reach the speed cap then reduce the speed cap with this ring equipped a bit?(if it will be a problem that's it).

Aedaryl

This is a Nightblade thread nerf.

Since everyone is forced into malacath but not Nightblade because cloak, the only strong alternative for them is ring of the wild hunt, that embrace their kitty game play.

Asking to nerf ring of the wild hunt is asking to nerf NB.

Galarthor

Rikumaru wrote: »

No, it's fine. It's a mythic item, so yes it does require investment to place in your build compared to other options such as running 2 5 pc sets without single barring both while running a monster set. Not to mention you have mythic items such as Malacath's ring which will be pretty strong especially for no-cp. Seems perfectly inline with other mythic items.

The value / quality of the item should be irrelevant if it breaks the game!

Following your logic, why not create I-win-buttons that are time-intensive to farm. I mean, obviously you should be allowed to conquere anything and anybody in an instant if you just invested enough time to get a certain item. That will make the game so much fun!

@killingspreeb16_ESO:
What's a 5pc bonus or 2pc monster set bonus against invulnerability? If something can be exploited to gain an unfair advantage, then it will be exploited to gain that unfair advantage. That's how it has been for all of human history. That's just human nature.

I don't mind speed, if the game can handle it. But it can't. Now you got 2 options:
1) Introduce the ring as is, let people farm it and use it to exploit faulty code while in the meantime driving players away from the game. And then have it nerfed in the next update. Sure you had fun for 3 months, but at what cost? The ring will most likely be useless afterwards (we all know how ZOS nerfs things) and the people driven will still be gone. Sure the dickheads out there will prefer this option, but for the playerbase and community as a whole it is pretty bad.

2) Delay the introduction of the ring until the game can handle it. That way you can enjoy the ring and your speedy playstyle for much longer and the time invested in farming the ring will not be wasted after 1 update. Plus you won't have pissed off countless players, thus preserving the playerbase.

Galarthor

Kadoin wrote: »

I can still bug all damage against me with 30 percent movement speed on live...

The problem is not a speed bug, but a physics bug that occurs when the player position value is truncated. I am guessing their collision system checks player position and uses exact value matching rather than a rounded value on floating point. That means if you know where to move in certain positions on the screen relative to players you can always avoid damage at any distance, movement speed just gives you time to move into that position better because it adds a static delay to skill transit time once you move a certain distance (another bug or intended?). This causes damage to drop because the skill thinks you are in one place, but your positional value is actually referencing another (because its off by a few decimal places, really ZOS?).

What they need to do is round the values in the positioning system to integer IF ONLY for that check. As long as they don't it don't matter what speed someone is moving if they know where to move relative to their opponent to trigger this bug, or the terrain locations in Cyro that also trigger this bug. This would also fix some bugs in PvE that would appear to be due to lag but aren't. However, it would mean that movement speed abusers now will come to the forums and rage...

But don't don't worry, I am sure ZOS knows what they are doing After all, there is no one around here that knows anyone that abuses these two bugs 100 percent of the time right?

...Right?

EDIT: I should also mention that that is all derived from randomly triggering the bug + testing to replicate it. And yes, no damage text or any "miss" or "dodge" occurs when that bug does.

That would explain a lot. I often noticed even realtively slow moving players being untargetable close to certain obstacles in BGs, even though said players were in my crosshair and in a clear line-of-sight for quite some time.

Speed definitely exacerbates the issue though. Even to the point that they don't even need obstacles but just run around you.

Sarousse

Speed + useless CCs + LoS & mechanic abuse is a real cancer. Adding speed items will just make it worse.

killingspreeb16_ESO

@Galarthor

The 15% movement speed now equal invulerability?you can alredy achive this speed with the right ring trait(3% more if they are legendary) and losing what extra stat?

Which is similiar to what youre gonna lose if you use this ring,either monster set or a 5 piece,if it was not for the extra ms speed out of combat this ring might not even be worth it over 2/3 swift ring.
You could also run 3 swift next patch and balorg and achive similiar result.(speed,dmg and without lose a 5p bonus)

Perfomance wise idk when and IF will ever get better at this point(playing since the 5 days early access on pc with breaks here and there and perfomance only got worse over the years)

Also i don't see ZoS delay this item(or make major change to it) and im not sure it's actually needed to be delayed or changed since you can reach the speed cap alredy and be even faster in combat with 3 legendary ring with swift or you can play with 2 and be 3%slower but that's it.

Yes im aware someone might make a build with this ring+3 swift trait but im not sure if it will be worth since you will lose stat(from ring trait) and monster set/5p.

Anyway they can add a "negative" effect like with band of malacath where you can't crit that the swift trait with this ring equipped is not counted or max combat (passive)movement speed with this ring is capped at 20% just to prevent abuse or something better,those are just random idea that take you 5 min to think about.

But don't suggest to make it totally worthless by removing the extra ms in combat just add some limit to it.

Galarthor

That's part of what I am saying. Even the current speed is game breaking. And you can combine the Ring of the Wild Hunt with swift. So that's another 15% speed. Which is higher than the current speed or the higher speed / speed cap more accessible and the games inaptitude more exploited.

15% speed alone does not make you invulnerable, but 15% more at an already high speed does since you are no longer targetable b/c the game cannot handle such speeds.

Not being able to crit does not really fix anything. It just prolongs the time you are trying to hit somebody who is attacking you and right in your crosshair without an ability actually going off. The fight does not become more viable all of a sudden. You will still not be able to hit your target with any aimed abilities. But unless you are a necro with a harmony build, I would not count on being able to kill that speedstar with AoEs before he kills you with his single target attacks.

My suggestion: Don't add it until the game can handle it or disable the in-combat speed in PvP, b/c the NPCs will most likely still be able to hit you at high speeds, but players will not!

killingspreeb16_ESO

Galarthor wrote: »

That's part of what I am saying. Even the current speed is game breaking. And you can combine the Ring of the Wild Hunt with swift. So that's another 15% speed. Which is higher than the current speed or the higher speed / speed cap more accessible and the games inaptitude more exploited.

15% speed alone does not make you invulnerable, but 15% more at an already high speed does since you are no longer targetable b/c the game cannot handle such speeds.

Not being able to crit does not really fix anything. It just prolongs the time you are trying to hit somebody who is attacking you and right in your crosshair without an ability actually going off. The fight does not become more viable all of a sudden. You will still not be able to hit your target with any aimed abilities. But unless you are a necro with a harmony build, I would not count on being able to kill that speedstar with AoEs before he kills you with his single target attacks.

My suggestion: Don't add it until the game can handle it or disable the in-combat speed in PvP, b/c the NPCs will most likely still be able to hit you at high speeds, but players will not!

Im not saying to add to the ring of the wild hunt the same "negative effect" of malacath band but to use the same idea of a "negative" effect to prevent abuse.

I will use the same example as before,if ring of the wild hunt is equipped cap it to 20%(the max passive ms in combat)so this way you prevent any possible troll build with wild hunt+3swift but youre still able to get the other form of major/minor expedition to boost the ms and be a bit faster than 3 swift ring.

Now lets try to compare some item setup if they go with what i suggested(20% max speed cap for passive ms in combat)

5+5+2 and 3 swift ring 15/18% ms VS 5+5+1+wild hunt ring or 5+4+2+wild hunt ring 15-20% ms(and 45% ms out of combat)

if it was not for one of the two bonus ms in either in/out of combat this ring will be simply another junk item that require chapter+skill line+murkmire and possible long grind to get.

But even if they don't cap the speed this ring as i said will require few things to get so it's not like as soon greymoor it live server ZoS will throw it at you.

Also this ring will be popular among NB but how many of them(or any other class if we want) are going to use this ring+ 3 swiftness?

In NB case a class with alredy low healing that get decreased with battle spirit even more can actually throw away a defensive/offensive monster set and over 2k stamina from robust or extra stat from infused to run wild hunt ring and 3 swiftness and be actually worth something?
Tbh i don't think so,outside of trolling people or killing low cp/new player.
Not to mention beside losing stat for dmg/defense(from both trait and set) with impen baseline for everyone and possible people stacking it they will lose too much dmg and just be an annoying mosquito running around that as soon someone throw a CC them they will be a toast.

Cuddler

The issue with this ring is not simply the massive bonuses it provides, but that they come without any drawbacks. A bonus worth 2.5 Swift traits should have a penalty attached to it.

Universe

RIng of the Wild Hunt is balanced.
It is capped at 15% movement speed bonus while in combat.

Thevampirenight

Well its not like everyone and their mother would be using this. The thing about the mythic items is you got to find the leads to get the things that allows you to get the ring and you have to deal with all the hassle with the system they are putting in and I'm guessing it won't be easy to acquire.

Not to mention combat basically slows players down here this isn't a perm bonus 45% bonus speed. that is only for out of combat. By being in combat the ring is 15% movement speed increased, when out of combat its 45. So there is that to consider if a foe hits you or you enter a combat situation with you with the ring your speed will be nerfed by 30% right away. That means that 30% movement speed is lost when combat starts. So its basically a ring meant to be more of a boon for gathering crafting things and doing other stuff. Sure you would be a lot faster but at the same time its not as effective in combat. .
But there is that chance that the numbers might get adjusted for this item. So who knows what will happen with it. *Shrugs*