Why is Blood Lord's Embrace so weak and doesn't benefit vampires? At all.

Maulkin

Baraber wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

If this set would have restored stamina i could find some use for it on a tank, it would even make it really decent and in high demand.
But magicka?
Pfff

Quite frankly, if your stamina sustain (as opposed to magicka sustain) is an issue on your tank then you're just not set up right or you're doing something wrong. Like trying to tank too many mobs that aren't meant to be tanked or not weaving some S&B heavy attacks during the windows when bosses do no damage to you (every boss has those).

You have a ton of skills and class/weapon/cp passives to help you keep up block and taunt indefinitely as is. It really, really shouldn't be a problem.

1. Not all tanks are DKs, stamina sustain is indeed manageable but it's not always easy, some beginners may find it useful.
2. In any case, i was not referring to pve tanking at all, nobody will use this set anyway as it makes you drop alkosh/yolna/ebon/monster etc, besides, as you said, pve tanks are suppose to manage themselves, and the good ones do it with ease as everything in pve is predictable. (cleared all HM's in game as a nightblade tank btw).
3. In pvp however, sources of stamina sustain while blocking might be a thing to be desired in certain builds, but after the bash damage nerf i'm not so sure anymore, (maybe necro permablock health stacking tank with harbinger and bone Goliath ulti? Who knows...).
4. In any case we can all agree that a wierd magicka sustain item that is tied to block (?) and requires you to actively manage it with bash (???) is NOT worth losing any 5 pc bonus over...
But on second thought... The tanking monster sets in this patch got Nerfed so hard that one might consider losing the monster set 2 pc and replace it with this peculiar item.
Omg maybe the nerf was intended!
*pulls tinfoil hat*

I mean, I told you. You write all this and the you come back to my point (bolded) which is that 1-p monster + Bloodlord is much better than all tanking/sustain 2-p monster sets next patch. With this on you can be pumping out more energy orbs and blockades than your healer.

It's very solid for PvE tanks. It won't replace your 5-p sets ofc, but nor does it need to.

ATreeGnome

I think this set has the potential to replace a monster set piece for situations when PvE tanks were running 2x magicka recovery monster set pieces - a fairly common selfish setup for tanks that are still learning how to manage resources on a new fight. I could only see an experienced tank maybe running it so they can provide more synergies to stam DPS running Lokkestiiz for more major Slayer.

Maulkin

ATreeGnome wrote: »

I think this set has the potential to replace a monster set piece for situations when PvE tanks were running 2x magicka recovery monster set pieces - a fairly common selfish setup for tanks that are still learning how to manage resources on a new fight. I could only see an experienced tank maybe running it so they can provide more synergies to stam DPS running Lokkestiiz for more major Slayer.

Smh... that's not a selfish set up at all. A selfish set up would be running more armor, or HP or healing received.

The only reason pve tanks need mag recovery is to pump out more synergy skills so DDs can get their sustain and major slayer up-time as you mentioned. And for the blockades so they can debuff with a stronger crusher enchant and help proc off-balance. All these cost magicka. Tanks don't need magicka recovery for themselves, they can happily hold block, taunt, self-heal and stay alive using only the stam pool.

CleymenZero

Glurin wrote: »

I would guess that the enchant is likely random. You just happened to find it with stamina.

Not gonna say this set is good, far from it but the stam enchant = extra stam = extra ressources for blocking for more opportunity to use the set's bonus (to bash then block to receive magicka back).

Danksta

Noxavian wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

LinearParadox wrote: »

People are so narrowminded. Sorry not sorry.

That's perma-block with an Ice staff.
That's going to enable offensive Magic tanks, like Saptanking.
That's going to supply PvE tanks with WAY more magicka to fuel their heals and utility abilities.

That's DK tanks being able to use more chains, more Dragon Bloods, more Earthen Heart abilities to restore stam...
NB tanks being to use Sap Essence, Cloak, etc. more...
Warden tanks being to use more Polar Winds, Crystallized Shields, Ice Gates...
The list goes on and on.

Yeah, it's worthless. -_-

It is 600 magicka per attack blocked by 1 target.

Slow your roll there bud, it isn't good.

You're right though! It IS worthless!

And as a tank you're constantly blocking attacks, so in theory this is upwards of an extra 1370 magicka regen. Obviously in practice it's going to be less, but, well, there you have it. Just gotta ask yourself if it's worth breaking up another set for.

Are you though? It works on 1 target at once and since attack speed isn't a stat, I don't know of many bosses that attack fast and most bosses typically dont attack every second.

And 1370 extra magicka regen on a *mythic* level item?

Idk man, I'm just not seeing it I guess. I genuinely don't see how this outweighs a 5 piece bonus.

And what are you going to do, sit there and block the entire time while you wait for your magicka to refill? You get nothing from this set unless you literally sit there and hold block. And even then, all you get is 600 magicka *per* attack blocked.

It doesn't need to outweigh a 5 piece bonus, just a 2 pc monster set bonus. This also looks like a PvP set to me.

axi

Noxavian wrote: »

LinearParadox wrote: »

People are so narrowminded. Sorry not sorry.

That's perma-block with an Ice staff.
That's going to enable offensive Magic tanks, like Saptanking.
That's going to supply PvE tanks with WAY more magicka to fuel their heals and utility abilities.

That's DK tanks being able to use more chains, more Dragon Bloods, more Earthen Heart abilities to restore stam...
NB tanks being to use Sap Essence, Cloak, etc. more...
Warden tanks being to use more Polar Winds, Crystallized Shields, Ice Gates...
The list goes on and on.

Yeah, it's worthless. -_-

It is 600 magicka per attack blocked by 1 target.

Slow your roll there bud, it isn't good.

You're right though! It IS worthless!

It's up to 685 magicka restored every 1 second. That is equivalent of almost 1,4k magicka regen. There was a time (and for some people still is) when one of the usefull setups for tanks was wearing 1 piece chokethorn 1 piece shadowrend to get 2x 1 piece with mag regen which resulted with additional 258 mag regen , with percentage buffs something around 400. That allowed for easier sustain in harsher fights where there was a bigger need to use magicka based abilities wheter it's for surviving on their own or supporting their team mates better. Now wer're talking about up to over 3 times more then that granted with just 1 armor piece instead of 2. Know the math man. In PvP also there are setups with s&b that sometimes rely on blocking during defense especially when their magicka pool drops on low and they need to survive pressure. That chest is also dreams come true there. As someone mentioned earlier Ice staff blocking is also something that have a chance to happen thanks to that item piece.

There are multiple uses for that set. Getting up to 1,4k mag regen when blocking is something that only someone who have no idea what he/she is talking about would call worthless.

Charon_on_Vacation

i think its not that bad.
you could easily make a permablock build out of it without losing too much other stuff in the process.
in comparison to other mythic items, though.. i don't think it will hold up.

ATreeGnome

Maulkin wrote: »

ATreeGnome wrote: »

I think this set has the potential to replace a monster set piece for situations when PvE tanks were running 2x magicka recovery monster set pieces - a fairly common selfish setup for tanks that are still learning how to manage resources on a new fight. I could only see an experienced tank maybe running it so they can provide more synergies to stam DPS running Lokkestiiz for more major Slayer.

Smh... that's not a selfish set up at all. A selfish set up would be running more armor, or HP or healing received.

The only reason pve tanks need mag recovery is to pump out more synergy skills so DDs can get their sustain and major slayer up-time as you mentioned. And for the blockades so they can debuff with a stronger crusher enchant and help proc off-balance. All these cost magicka. Tanks don't need magicka recovery for themselves, they can happily hold block, taunt, self-heal and stay alive using only the stam pool.

Are you trying to tell me that tanks "happily" heal through baneful mark in VCR +3 or Navi breath while marked in VSS HM with only stamina abilities? Tanks rely on magicka heals from things like GDB, Polar Winds, or Dark Cloak to consistently deal with these mechanics. It's common for less experienced tanks to run extra magicka recovery solely so that they can spam these heals more. Literally the only situation where 2x magicka recovery isn't selfish is if you are playing a class with a unique synergy and actually spamming it to provide lokke synergies. Even then, it's almost always more efficient to have the tank run Symphony of Blades and have a healer synergy spam.

Faulgor

I somewhat doubt people are going to use this armor as much as they think they will. The conditions just seem too restrictive even compared to a nerfed Stonekeeper or other sustain sets.
First you need to bash, then the bashed target has to attack, and then you have to block. How often do bosses attack? I don't think it's once per second for most relevant ones.

And thematically I agree it's really wonky. When I hear Vampiric armor, I think something like Drain Power that weakens enemies when hit and strengthens yourself or something.

xaraan

Faulgor wrote: »

I somewhat doubt people are going to use this armor as much as they think they will. The conditions just seem too restrictive even compared to a nerfed Stonekeeper or other sustain sets.
First you need to bash, then the bashed target has to attack, and then you have to block. How often do bosses attack? I don't think it's once per second for most relevant ones.

And thematically I agree it's really wonky. When I hear Vampiric armor, I think something like Drain Power that weakens enemies when hit and strengthens yourself or something.

Agree, I think a lot of folks are forgetting that component of the proc. This is not a set that will be filling you up with magicka, you'll just get a little burst whenever someone you spent stam on to bash hits you, if you are surrounded and getting hammered by mobs, none of that will give you magicka unless you've bashed them all.

I also think that everyone talking about dropping a monster set for tanking is forgetting that unless you have no stam in your group, a lot of tanks will be running Tremorscale now for the debuff.

Austinseph1

I mean.... Permablock DK Tank can replace the monster sets ZOS nerfed, thats about all I can see a use for.

Chelo

Baraber wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Baraber wrote: »

If this set would have restored stamina i could find some use for it on a tank, it would even make it really decent and in high demand.
But magicka?
Pfff

Quite frankly, if your stamina sustain (as opposed to magicka sustain) is an issue on your tank then you're just not set up right or you're doing something wrong. Like trying to tank too many mobs that aren't meant to be tanked or not weaving some S&B heavy attacks during the windows when bosses do no damage to you (every boss has those).

You have a ton of skills and class/weapon/cp passives to help you keep up block and taunt indefinitely as is. It really, really shouldn't be a problem.

1. Not all tanks are DKs, stamina sustain is indeed manageable but it's not always easy, some beginners may find it useful.

Gonna stop you right there. A beginner is definitely not getting this item. Mythyc items are super heavy grind, this items are for veterans who already have plenty of builds at their disposal...

You won't see beginners running around in PvE and PvP with this items...

Noxavian

xaraan wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I somewhat doubt people are going to use this armor as much as they think they will. The conditions just seem too restrictive even compared to a nerfed Stonekeeper or other sustain sets.
First you need to bash, then the bashed target has to attack, and then you have to block. How often do bosses attack? I don't think it's once per second for most relevant ones.

And thematically I agree it's really wonky. When I hear Vampiric armor, I think something like Drain Power that weakens enemies when hit and strengthens yourself or something.

Agree, I think a lot of folks are forgetting that component of the proc. This is not a set that will be filling you up with magicka, you'll just get a little burst whenever someone you spent stam on to bash hits you, if you are surrounded and getting hammered by mobs, none of that will give you magicka unless you've bashed them all.

I also think that everyone talking about dropping a monster set for tanking is forgetting that unless you have no stam in your group, a lot of tanks will be running Tremorscale now for the debuff.

Yeah I also think a lot of people are forgetting you can only have 1 target with a blood curse. You can't even bash multiple targets.

I think a lot of people on this thread just don't understand what a 'mythic vampire themed' item should have.

I would bet money nobody uses it if it remains in this state. Standing still to restore 600 magicka per attack blocked is trash and is NOT worth giving up a 5 piece set for. Don't really understand all of these people defending this weak ass effect.


I'll say it again: This is a MYTHIC item. At best, the set effect described should be a monster or 5 piece set.

actosh

In Stambased Raidteams u wont be using this, since u need to use Tremorscale as Monsterset.

Glurin

Noxavian wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I somewhat doubt people are going to use this armor as much as they think they will. The conditions just seem too restrictive even compared to a nerfed Stonekeeper or other sustain sets.
First you need to bash, then the bashed target has to attack, and then you have to block. How often do bosses attack? I don't think it's once per second for most relevant ones.

And thematically I agree it's really wonky. When I hear Vampiric armor, I think something like Drain Power that weakens enemies when hit and strengthens yourself or something.

Agree, I think a lot of folks are forgetting that component of the proc. This is not a set that will be filling you up with magicka, you'll just get a little burst whenever someone you spent stam on to bash hits you, if you are surrounded and getting hammered by mobs, none of that will give you magicka unless you've bashed them all.

I also think that everyone talking about dropping a monster set for tanking is forgetting that unless you have no stam in your group, a lot of tanks will be running Tremorscale now for the debuff.

Yeah I also think a lot of people are forgetting you can only have 1 target with a blood curse. You can't even bash multiple targets.

I think a lot of people on this thread just don't understand what a 'mythic vampire themed' item should have.

I would bet money nobody uses it if it remains in this state. Standing still to restore 600 magicka per attack blocked is trash and is NOT worth giving up a 5 piece set for. Don't really understand all of these people defending this weak ass effect.


I'll say it again: This is a MYTHIC item. At best, the set effect described should be a monster or 5 piece set.

I don't think anyone has "forgotten" at all. We're just looking at the design and recognizing that it is specifically intended for tanking bosses. Good or bad, that is clearly what it is built for.

Noxavian

Glurin wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I somewhat doubt people are going to use this armor as much as they think they will. The conditions just seem too restrictive even compared to a nerfed Stonekeeper or other sustain sets.
First you need to bash, then the bashed target has to attack, and then you have to block. How often do bosses attack? I don't think it's once per second for most relevant ones.

And thematically I agree it's really wonky. When I hear Vampiric armor, I think something like Drain Power that weakens enemies when hit and strengthens yourself or something.

Agree, I think a lot of folks are forgetting that component of the proc. This is not a set that will be filling you up with magicka, you'll just get a little burst whenever someone you spent stam on to bash hits you, if you are surrounded and getting hammered by mobs, none of that will give you magicka unless you've bashed them all.

I also think that everyone talking about dropping a monster set for tanking is forgetting that unless you have no stam in your group, a lot of tanks will be running Tremorscale now for the debuff.

Yeah I also think a lot of people are forgetting you can only have 1 target with a blood curse. You can't even bash multiple targets.

I think a lot of people on this thread just don't understand what a 'mythic vampire themed' item should have.

I would bet money nobody uses it if it remains in this state. Standing still to restore 600 magicka per attack blocked is trash and is NOT worth giving up a 5 piece set for. Don't really understand all of these people defending this weak ass effect.


I'll say it again: This is a MYTHIC item. At best, the set effect described should be a monster or 5 piece set.

I don't think anyone has "forgotten" at all. We're just looking at the design and recognizing that it is specifically intended for tanking bosses. Good or bad, that is clearly what it is built for.

But this thread is about how *bad* it is though, not talking about it's function. It can be meant to help with tanking bosses, but that doesn't mean it is good.

Ashagin

This is essentially just for tanks during boss fights. Idk how much it will help because I dont have it yet but that is the only reason to use this mythic

UnassumingNoob

Permanent block and then some. That + Balance + frost staff blocking for magica = infinite sustain.

ccfeeling

I would say monster set is still better than this mythic chest , I dropped it on next day real fast after tested .
I won't blame the design because I don't expect anything from current dev .

Necro tank with Ice staff in PVE ? Maybe

As a tank , response time is really important in face pace and hard content , there is a passive in 1H1S - Battlefield Mobility

Battlefield Mobility
(WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED) Reduces the Movement Speed penalty of Bracing. Current penalty: 36%

Block move with Ice staff ?

Elwendryll

The thread is from may...

The magicka return got increased since.

I play a Sorc tank with 20k stamina and 2.4k mag recovery using a lot of dark deal.

This mythic item is actually overkill.
It IS very powerful, as in, if I wear that I don't die, I can keep Bound Aegis up with 100% uptime and I don't need any support x') The issue is that sustain is already fine everywhere. It's not that monster sets are better, it's just that Bloodlord's Embrace is purely selfish.

Noldornir

I use it on DK and I can assure the set is actually pretty OP, in most scenario at the present there are no decent monster sets for tanks, not as strong as this one is.

This plate is designed for main tanks (you curse the enemy once and benefit the whole fight) but can also be strong on off tanks, the magicka sustain it grants is way better than any Atronach mundus (which many tanks use).

With this plate on a tank can basically cast so many more skills when tanking don't even need an Ice staff to make it worth it (i use it with alkosh and yoln, the 1 pc. monster set u can pick any with a bonus of your liking such as resistances, life or regen).

Also with this plate i just shift my green CP (don't need so much mag regen anymore so i invest in cost reduction of dodge/block even more) making it helping stam sustain as well

Azurya

that is exactly the reason why I don´t gather any parts of this item, just a waste of time........

Burtan

This set is actually very useful now to a PvE tank, allowing you to permablock with an ice staff and never even heavy attack should you so desire, but most of all it allows you to throw out synergies and off-heals with ease.

Saubon

Burtan wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember seeing any changes to Bloodlords Embrace on PTS.

I'm not entirely sure how you got the magicka restore so low in your screenshot but here is a screenshot of my own right now on live.]

First screenshot was taken before greymoore release, they buffed it.

Burtan

Saubon wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember seeing any changes to Bloodlords Embrace on PTS.

I'm not entirely sure how you got the magicka restore so low in your screenshot but here is a screenshot of my own right now on live.]

First screenshot was taken before greymoore release, they buffed it.

ah, I really should have checked the date first, didn't expect the post to be months old.