How to fix Opportunist, and understanding what set it needs to replace in Magicka DPS.

Soundinfinite

There are some strong write-ups on the forum that currently deal with Kyne's Aegis's set problems. The focus of these write-ups is on Roaring Opportunist. It is front and center due to Magicka DPS being so starved for sets when it comes to endgame DPS. Mother's Sorrow is 5 years old and yet still BIS in most situations. Even more, in theory, Opportunist boasts great power with Major Slayer, but so far, the execution is lackluster, awkward, and simply non-functional.

When designing the set, it seems the Devs were looking at trying to pigeonhole it to fit within the META without destroying the META. That is they wanted to A) Give Magicka the power granted to stamina builds through Lokkestiiz without simply copying the set, B ) Not destroy Sunpire's Perfected False God, making it a dead set within a years’ time and replacing it with a new set, and C) Squeeze it into a now debunked revamped light/heavy attack system.
This has caused the set to suffer considerably and created some glaring problems.

With this said, very little is being offered in solutions to this current design by the player base other than simply stating “change the set.” Also, it seems that the glaring issue of what set in current Magicka builds needs to be replaced, is not a focus.

3 problems with Roaring Opportunist:

1) The set is tied to Heavy Attacks, designed around a light/heavy attack base game change that has currently been trashed or at a minimum postponed for a redesign.
2) The set grants a BUFF (Major Slayer) but ties that buff to an enemy de-buff style cool-down (22 Seconds per enemy) making it awkward in use with severely low up-times.
3) The set's main stats are lackluster, opting for Penetration, a stat currently PVE Magicka builds do not need, over much more powerful stats like Spell Critical, Max Magicka, or Spell Damage

Further analysis of these problems follows (Placed in Spoiler Boxes to make the post as short as possible and let readers choose what they want to parse through):

Problem #1

End-game players, as well as a considerably large portion of the player base endgame or not, let it be known they were not interested, nor did they want a Heavy Attack META for combat in ESO. ZOS took this feedback and opted to revert the proposed changes. Yet, the first strong and possibly viable sets, Roar of Opportunist and Yandir's Might, have come to the table still attached to this system.

While Yandir is not un-usable, with PVP players considering it as a possible viable option, in its current state it is dead for PVE stamina builds. Likely, most PVP players will not bother with the hassle of farming the set from PVE content when they already have builds and sets the come close to the power out-put already and are able to be sustained.

Opportunist is in a much worse state. It has no viable use outside of PVE content, and as is, has no purpose beyond being used by a single player in a group of 12. Even this is questionable with the DPS loss the player will already have in running Heavy Attacks for damage and the frustrating builds that will be required to Maximize the uptime of the set, which will remain quite low overall with the current design, giving the group an extremely low DPS gain, one which stamina will heartily laugh at compared to their reliable and high-uptimes of Major Slayer.

There is little to change this besides removing its proc from Heavy attacks, if this is not done, the set will remain dead from a DPS perspective until ZOS forces a Heavy Attack meta on the player base or the entire set traits are redesigned in a way to make the set too strong to pass up.

Problem #2

Buffing the entire group is not what is wrong with Roaring Opportunist, it is the de-buff style cool-down that is placed on the enemy. This means that multiple players cannot run the set to create higher up-times. It is made for 1 player and 1 player alone because the cool-down is NOT on the set itself or the player who wears it. Zos has claimed they want this to be DPS viable and not another set going into the inventory of support characters. Yet, having any set that is usable by only 1 player and buffs all 12 in a trial has no option but to be run on support characters. It is simply how the game works.

If the set was instead an internal cool-down for the player, then multiple players would need to run it, pulling it off support classes.

Example:

5-Pieces= When you heavy attack you and up to 11 group members are granted Major Slayer for 5 seconds. This effect can occur every 22 seconds.

By simply taking the cool-down off the enemy and placing it on the player creates an entirely different situation, even though the ENTIRE group is still buffed by the 5th trait. This means up to 4 players would want to run the set in a raid to grant the maximum of 88% up-time on Major Slayer. Likely a rotation would be called out as is already done with Colossus and Warhorn, and no doubt add-ons would be modified or created to track it.

This too would remedy the absolutely CRAZY scaling of adding 1 second of duration for every 8000 damage the Heavy Attack does to the enemy when procing the set. This places the set at a base of 22% up-time with 5 seconds up vs 22 seconds down, a figure that is not worth the hassle of running it. It then requires a Heavy Attack to deal at least 48k damage to move the timer 1 second. This is absurd. Given the set hasn't any critical strike stats in its design and hitting such numbers would require a Critical Hit paired with a very specific build (Which everyone is trying to design) it simply makes running the set on a DPS a dire situation.

Since the set in its current creation can only be worn by 1 group member, a healer, which already uses Heavy Attacks in normal play, can equip Jorvuld's and passively buff the up-time from 5 to 7 seconds or (22% to 31% overall up-time) while not changing anything they already do...Heavy Attacking. A DPS would have to punch out 56k Heavy Attacks consistently to manage the same feat, while taking an overall DPS loss with the set traits and changing their play style to incorporate Heavy Attacks.

Since the set in its group buff design is made to keep False God's Viable on all other Magicka players in the group, likely the uptime would want to be moved from 5 seconds back to the 10 seconds it had on its inception. Thus, only 2 players would need to run it vs 4 and net the same uptime. Placing 2 support characters in the set would not be advantageous; thus, it would want to be placed on DPS instead.

If 88% uptime is too high, then the values can be changed, but beware, in mixed groups of Stamina and Magicka players (Supposedly how Zos wants raid group make-up) if the uptime falls too low it will be unusable for Stamina DPS as Lokkestiiz will be better for them. And if half the group is in Lokkestiiz it will be less of a pain, and less of a DPS loss to the players running the gear, to instead have 2 players run Master Architect, which has a 40-50% uptime in an experienced player’s hands. This is what is already done in live gameplay. Thus, the set will become dead in anything other than completely Magicka DPS groups.

Problem #3

Penetration as a stat is, currently, better left to Stamina DPS. On Magicka DPS it is simply pouring more resources into a stat that is already on full.

Currently the value of Penetration a build should carry sits at 5850. This figure is based on a raid team having the Templar's Stamina morphed Power of the Light, A tank or healer with a 2-handed infused weapon wearing Torug's Pact with a Crushing Enchant, Roar of Alkosh, and the basic Major Breach & Fracture provided by the tank or tank+Healer together.

Magicka DPS have 4884 Penetration baked into their Light Armor, and all Destructive Staves ignore an additional 10% of an enemy’s defenses. As such, simply placing 10 CP in Spell Erosion makes all Magicka classes hit the current required cap and gives a little leeway for certain penetration de-buffs to be missing through the Destructive stave passive. This excludes Magicka Necromancers which passively have 1500 more penetration and are already over this cap. Thus, in PVE, having Penetration as a trait on your gear does nothing more than free up 10 CP points for the tiniest of tiny DPS gains.

Spell Critical well far outperform a trait of penetration, so too will Max Magicka while offering up sustain, even Spell Damage well net a greater result.

Even more, Monster sets were just readjusted, and Valkyn Skoria, which was touted as being more DPS focused with the change of its first trait to Penetration would become an over-penetration nightmare when paired with any other penetration stat in a Magicka build.

Simply put, until something is done with Alkosh, or Light Armor passives are redesigned, Penetration is simply a PVP stat for Magicka DPS.

Galenwe's change might make it a little more viable, as Galenwe my put Torug out in the cold for use, but this is yet to be tested, and will likely adversely affect Stamina DPS which is starved for Penetration.

So now we know and understand the problems with the new set. How do we fix it?

As stated in the opening, Mother's Sorrow is an ancient set, from base game overworld, that has been BIS for mostly 3 out of the 4 years I have been a player of ESO on ALMOST every Magicka DPS build. The set is dusty, stale, and is in dire need of having a replacement. Perfected False God's Devotion isn't even a year old and is likely the most farmed set currently in game keeping Sunspire full of players farming gear.

The answer to which one Roar of Opportunist needs to replace is easy; however, what is needed to replace Mother's Sorrow is hard.

The problem is simply that False God's, as stat dense as it is, is not that strong of a DPS set. In truth it is weaker in power than Julianos.

Julianos grants:
1666 Spell Critical,
1096 Max Magicka,
300 Spell Damage.

Perfected False God's Devotion grants:
1666 Spell Critical
1096 Max Magicka
129 Spell Damage

(And that is the Perfected Version, Non-Perfected is even weaker.)

What makes False God's desirable OVER Julianos is that it also carries Minor Slayer (5% Damage Boost) and reduces Magicka costs by 8%.

However, if you are pairing False God's with another Trial Set, such as Roaring Opportunist, then the Minor Slayer stat becomes useless, because Roaring Opportunist also carries it. Thus, you are left with simply a weaker version of Julianos.

Yes, there is still the 8% cost reduction, but if Opportunist goes live running off Heavy Attacks, then the 8% reduction of False God's becomes moot, as you will sustain through the Heavy Attacks instead, and likely sustain much much better.

Thus, the conundrum the Dev's seemed stuck surfaces. How to create a set that will keep False God's in play?

If the Dev's simply use Opportunist as an exact copy of Lokkestiiz (A player base easy answer and recommended remedy) you destroy False God's usability.

Lokkestiiz only provides 1 dose of Critical; thus, choosing to run its proposed Magicka based equivalent with False God's will net an almost 12% Critical Damage loss + a Dose of Max Magicka with only a 2 doses of Spell power to make up that glaring difference.

Instead dropping False God's and pairing Mother's Sorrow with the Magicka Lokkestiiz equivalent would net a far greater DPS gain, as you will lose only 4% Critical while gaining one dose of Raw Spell Power. Sustain will be a bit of an issue, but it’s possible to overcome with slight alterations to the build, as Siroria + Mother's sorrow is already in the same situation and is sustained by many players.

As such, this is not a remedy for the goal in mind or the health of the game, and killed off False God's as an end game set within a years’ time.

The only way to use Roar of Opportunist in an effective way, is to
1) Follow the Developers path and keep it as a group buff worn by a limited number of players but design it with less player DPS loss, or
2) Create a need for False God's 8% cost reduction to outshine Sorrow's 8% Critical Chance. Which would require the set to increase the cost of skills while beating Mother's Sorrow Power output.

In truth, Mother's Sorrow honestly needs to be replaced by another Dungeon or Overworld set, thus Magicka DPS would Lose Minor Slayer running Mother Sorrow in the build or lose out on the power output of the new set, however this does not solve the problem of making Roar of Opportunist and Kyne’s Aegis staples in gameplay.

Below are 3 set options that are based on either the current PTS iteration of Opportunist, or off Stamina versions of sets not yet available to Magicka DPS:

Option: 1 Keeping Roar of Opportunist in its current Heavy Attack focus with a 2-person maximum and minimal DPS loss to the players designated to wear it.

Perfected Roar of Opportunist
2-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
3-Pieces= Minor Slayer
4-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
5-Pieces= 1096 Max Magicka + 129 Spell Damage
When you use a heavy attack, you grant Major Slayer
to you and up to 11 group members for 10 seconds.
This effect can happen every 22 seconds.

The non-perfected version would lose the dose of Spell Damage.

This leaves the current META of Mother's Sorrow intact for all group members as Opportunist would replace False Gods for the 2 DPS required to wear it without any individual DPS loss save for having to Heavy Attack. The loss of 8% cost reduction to Magicka skills would also be negated by the Heavy Attacks to keep sustain viable. It would also allow for more diverse Stamina builds as they could drop Lokkestiiz and run different sets. However, this would force Heavy Attack builds into play, something that a majority of players do not want and will also limit its farm-ability as everyone will not have need for it since it will only be run by 2 players per group.

Option: 2 Combine the usability and design of Lokkestiiz but make it comparable to False God's Stats and remain a group buff to limit the number of players needing to wear it.

Perfected Roar of Opportunist
2-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
3-Pieces= Minor Slayer
4-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
5-Pieces = 1096 Max Magicka + 1096 Max Magicka
When you activate a synergy, gain Major Slayer for you and up to 11 group members for 15 seconds. This effect can occur once every 33 seconds.

The Non-Perfected version would lose the extra dose of Max Magicka.

This leaves the current META of Mother's Sorrow intact for all group members as Opportunist would replace False Gods for the 2 DPS required to wear it. The loss of 8% cost reduction to Magicka skills would make the set harder to sustain, which is why it comes with more Max Magicka instead of Spell Damage. It would also allow for more diverse Stamina builds as they could drop Lokkestiiz and run different sets. This set now plays into the current playstyle of the game with minimal DPS loss to the wearer. Its farm-ability is reduced as all players will not have need for it since it will only be run by 2 players per group.

Option: 3 Bring an altered Tzogvin into play for Magicka DPS but in a trial set with a catch that plays off False God's 8% Reduction of Cost.

Perfected Roar of Opportunist
2-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
3-Pieces= Minor Slayer
4-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
5-Pieces= 129 Spell Damage
Dealing Critical Damage gains you a stack of Opportunity,
increasing your Spell Critical by 333 and your Spell Damage
by 52 for 10 seconds. Up to 5 Stacks Max. With each stack
the Cost of all Magicka Skills is increased by 1%, At max
stacks, you also gain Minor Force.

The Non-Perfected version would lose the dose of Spell Damage.

This would completely alter the Magicka DPS make-up. The set would open a bar spot for virtually all players, as Trapping Beasts or the Psijic Order Skill would no longer be needed. This would allow DPS to have more freedom in builds depending on class, such as slotting another DOT increasing over-all damage output, or creating a buff/flex spot for classes with crowded bars. At Max Stacks Magicka skills (Not All Skills, so Ultimates would be left untouched) would cost 5% more but the set would grant 389 Total Spell Damage and 3,332 Spell Critical. This would net roughly a 1% Critical loss, compared to Mother's Sorrow but a massive raw power gain. Add a theoretical 100% uptime of Minor Force at Max Stacks, and you have a set that will clearly out DPS Mother's Sorrow but at the expense of sustain. This would then make the 8% reduced cost to Magicka Skills granted by False God's have heavier weight and it make it the BIS combination set instead of adding the 8% Critical supplied by paring it with Mother's Sorrow.

Personally, I find option 3 the best fit for what is needed in Magicka DPS. It would replace both Siroria (2 years old) and Mother's Sorrow (5 Years old) while reinforcing Perfected False God's as an endgame set and offer utility to the playerbase in freeing up bar space. It also moves the awful BIS Trapping Beast (Melee Stamina Based skill) off ranged Magicka based make-ups. Lastly, it keeps Lokkestiiz in play, on Stamina builds reinforcing Sunspire as a go-to trial as all sets (Save the Healing set) remain endgame viable or BIS option. Win, win, win, win.

In Conclusion

Kyne's Aegis currently is not pulling the player base under its thrall (Vampire Pun) with its current sets. If it goes live as is, it will be mostly a one and done Trial with little incentive to keep it as part of one's continuous play cycle. Gaining only a memento from completing its hardest achievement is simply the cherry ontop of the disappointment cake. While score pushers, those seeking 100% completion, and those that want the glory of having a specific title next to their name will, for a time, tinker in its machinations. The player base at large will simply do it while its new and then move on as the sets do not give an incentive for farming on repeat.

Heavy Armor is getting something out of this update, even if it is not a set from this new trial. Galenwe's update is an exciting prospect for a 2-year old set that has been deconned since its inception. I suspect that it will find its way into end-game make-ups as now Tanks can divide sets evenly between them. One takes Yolnakrin + Alkosh and the other Galenwe + Ebon, or vice versa, granting a trial set on each tank ,and with-it Minor Aegis, while also buffing the entire roster with strong stats. Granting the group 100% uptime on Empower will be a significant DPS boost and will likely free up the CP currently sunk in Staff/Weapon Expert by the player base allowing them to strengthen other stats. Relying on Galenwe as the primary boost to light attack damage is a wise move as its 40% buff is stronger than anything DPS is getting from the CP Tree currently.

Healers are in a good place and already have an inventory bag chock full of sets to use. Symphony of Blades, Hollowfang's Thirst, and Hiti are all end-game sets given to them within a years’ time. Currently there is not much Healers need from a set other than larger or easier to use group buffs. Also, if Roar of Opportunist remains in a state close to what it is now, and has been since PTS going live, Healers might end-up getting the only set of worth out of this trial.

Stamina DPS was always going to be in a take-it or leave-it stance with the new set from Kyne's. In the past year they have received Tzogvin's Warband, Lokkestiiz, Aegis Caller, and New Moon Acolyte all of which are endgame viable and BIS on specific classes and Stamina builds. If Roar of Opportunist remains a group buff, and its uptime is strengthened to a reliable amount, Stamina builds will end up with a different build META's as Lokkestiiz will be moved off their make-up. Even with this, the medium set Yandir's Might could easily be tweaked to become BIS and is already in consideration as a PVP build staple as is.

This boils us down to Magicka DPS and Roar of Opportunist, the keystone clench set in making Kyne's Aegis a go-to Trial. Magicka has received only False God's Devotion as a viable endgame PVE set in almost 2 years. New Moon Acolyte comes close, but Magicka's lackluster Spell Damage scaling makes its effectiveness pale in comparison to its power on Stamina make-ups. Also, the stat of Spell Penetration is mostly wasted on Magicka builds, thus using OTHER sets than New Moon for Magicka PVE play is always a wise choice, especially with it increasing the cost of everything including Ultimates, which are already largely more expensive for Magicka DPS. This leaves us with Mother's Sorrow still the other staple set of Magicka builds, and as previous stated, is 5 years old. Therefore, the forums and player base are focusing heavily on making Opportunist viable. Out of everything Kyne's Aegis can offer, the Magicka DPS set is the most important.

VeiledCriticism

I agree. ZOS definitely needs to make an effort to move MS out of builds and make RO desirable for MagDPS.

Temeraire507

Very nice post, I absolutely agree, both that the new trial sets need to be revisited to actually make them desirable for the roles they are aimed at and that RO might be the most importnat one to be made a viable choice as magicka DD's are in dire need of some new and most importantly viable sets, especially considering the sheer difference in power currently given to the best stamina and magicka sets in direct comparison.

llBlack_Heartll

Just give Mag DPS a Tzogvin’s version to replace MS

kojou

I think they should make a set that replaces Mother's Sorrow with more of an Advancing Yokeda crit stacking type affect. It would be paired with Siroria by those that can sustain it, and paired with False Gods for longer fights or by players with sustain issues. That would also offer progression since Mother's Sorrow would be a starter set, and this would be the set you replace it with.

For Reference this is what I want:

2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Minor Slayer
4 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 items (Perfected): Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: When you deal Light Attack damage your Critical Strike rating is increased by 400 for 6 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. This effect can occur once every half second.

ankeor

MS is not and was never the problem.
The thing is crit damage is the king in PvE.
Ever since they nerfed Mechanical Acuity, the best set to provide crit chance for mag classes is MS.
Other than that MS by itself doesn't have the best stats.

VeiledCriticism

The issue with MS is that, as the post stated, is 5 years. And yes, also as the OP stated, critical damage is essential for Magicka players. So, if ZOS wants to replace a set, they should give a better option than MS. Otherwise, PFG is the one that is going to be replaced.

Considering that PFG was just released, it shouldn't be the set to be replaced in Magicka builds just yet.

vgabor

Those are quite good ideas, although I'd go with slightly different to make a new set replacement for mother sorrow:

2-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
3-Pieces= Minor Slayer
4-Pieces= 833 Spell Critical
5-Pieces= 1096 Max Magicka + 1096 Max Magicka
When you use a heavy attack, you gain 1924 Spell Critical for 8 seconds and grant Major Slayer
to you and up to 11 group members for 4 seconds.
This effect can happen every 12 seconds.

- the spell critical on the wearer after a heavy attack is exactly like mother sorrow, but with the 66% uptime (8/12 seconds) overall slightly weaker than mother sorrow although not much, and is compensated by minor slayer and more max mag in perfected
- the major slayer is 33% uptime (4/12 seconds) so you need 3 magicka dps wearing this set for full uptime
- encourages heavy attacking fit into your rotation (what devs apparently would like) since you need one in every 12 seconds (which is roughly the standard length for usual rotations) but also would not require dps to heavily spec into heavy attack build. It just your standard magicka dps build with an additional heavy attack in your rotation.

WrathOfInnos

Seems like part of the problem is redundancy of Minor Slayer. Magicka builds typically use False Gods, Master Architect or Siroria (maybe RO if it gets some major changes). If they combine any 2 of these trial sets then the 3pc bonus does nothing, so we’re forced to use an overland, crafted or dungeon set, and Sorrow happens to be marginally better than others (like BSW, Juli, Spell Strat).

Stamina builds don’t seem to have this issue, since they have always had great options for trial sets without Minor Slayer (primarily Advancing Yokeda and Twice-Fanged Serpent) with the option of some great dungeon sets (Tzogvins, Aegis Caller, Azureblight, Scavenging). You don’t see any Stamina builds still using Leviathan (the original crit set that mirrors Mother’s Sorrow).

What if RO was introduced with a different 3pc bonus, maybe Spell Damage? It would be breaking from tradition, but that would make it easier to combine with False Gods or Siroria without wasted stats. Or just give RO Minor Aegis because it’s obviously a support set (and add a real Magicka DPS set to Kyne’s Aegis). Alternatively, what if Minor Slayer was not a unique named buff, and multiple sets with it would combine to give “10%” damage (really closer to 6-7% with the way additive bonuses work).

Soundinfinite

@llBlack_Heartll

This has basically been asked for since Tzogvins went live, and having a Magicka Version of Tzogvins would undoubtedly replace Mother's Sorrow AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CARRY MINOR SLAYER. If a trial version of Tzogvins with Minor Slayer was released it WOULD NOT REPLACE MOTHER's SORROW, but be paired with it...

As such, as was stated in the post, if they release a Trial Version of Tzogvins, False Gods goes in the trash bin.

If they do not release Tzogvins as a trail, holding off for a dungeon release instead, then Kynes Aegis stays lackluster with dumpy sets....

Thus, no problem at all has been solved.

With Cloudrest ZOS tried releasing sets that did not carry Minor Slayer as a 3rd trait, and the player base just simply would not have it. It is a staple trait for Trail DPS gear.

Soundinfinite

@kojou

This idea doesn't work. There are some issues in equal comparison. The theory is sound, however.

1) Advancing Yokuda is a Heavy Armor set, not medium. Its initial intended design was to be a Heavy armor version of Mother's Sorrow (light), and Leviathan (Medium). The player base CHOSE to run it as a jewelry/weapon front bar only set as much as we have CHOSEN to run Alkosh as a tank set, and if Opportunist goes live, as is ,will CHOOSE to wear it as a support/healer set. Thus, it was a set used in a manner that wasn't intended.

2) Releasing a Light armor version of Advancing Yokuda is not equal to what is in game for stamina players. This gives Magicka 2 light options to receive the same stats, one proc, one constant, with no drawbacks. Thus, IF a magicka version was released, it would need to come from a HEAVY set and not another light set, as to mach the same drawbacks of choosing to run it. This does not solve the problem of Roar of Opportunist.

3) Advancing Yokuda was released in a unique situation where 3-trials were released simultaneously to start the Trial end-game play. This will likely never happen again. Because of this, the Trials shared sets and allowed to have drops that did not come with Minor Aegis, Minor Slayer. Thus, they are actually dungeon stated sets.

This made it a choice between carrying Leviathan on your build OR Advancing Yokuda. You couldn't have both while also gaining the stat of Minor Slayer....this is why the set replaced Leviathan. You could use the healthy rings and run food without health, use the proc on front bar without losing stats when running Maelstrom on back bar, and then run Minor slayer on your body set.

Your design does not do this.

4) Your non-perfected version is a DPS loss compared to Mother's Sorrow. If you are using it as a way fo replacing Mother's Sorrow power it does not work for many reasons. the second of which will be point 5. The first is that the Devs and Zos seem to want the main power and use of the sets to come from their NORMAL versions. The perfected version just adds a stat to make it a notch stronger. In your design, the normal version is a DPS loss compared to Mother's Sorrow, and the Perfected Version is equal to Mother's sorrow with better utility. Thus, ONLY THE PERFECTED version is worth farming....this is not what ZOS wants.

5) As is the main problem when going up against Mother's Sorrow, it is what is lost when dropping it. If players run another Trial set with your Version of Yokuda then the 3rd trait becomes moot. Thus they are getting just simply a front bar only version of Mother's Sorrow and again as point 4 stated a lesser version if non-perfected.

So, it WOULD BE BETTER TO RUN YOUR VERSION OF YOKUDA as the Trial set for Minor Slayer, front bared, and then PAIR IT WITH MOTHER'S SORROW on the body. Thus players would run at 90-100% critical chance at all times, depending on class and monster pieces used.

This is not an answer, and FAR to overpowered, without having a single drawback.

Even more, when Advancing Yokuda was brought to the game, we didn't have the scaling ofTthe Shadow MUNDUIS at the time, nor did we have passive RAW stat buffs of Major and Minor Courage. As such, at that time, running with SO much Critical really more than 70-75% was a DPS loss on builds, because you lost out on raw power and other stats, and you wouldn't hit harder cause your base damage would be so low. NOW , that is not the case as you will have a base of 387 Spell power passively through your tank+healer (More than what Julianos Gives) and then scale it all 20% more through the Shadow. You can also use Nirnhoned weapons for an additional 200 spell damage as they were buffed and drop precise.

SO running with as close to 100% crit as you can, IS NOW DESIRED...look at the Necro when in execute....all classes would be at their execute power level at all times with your designed set. And you have Trashed False God's something the Devs seemed, and I also was trying not to do. The set would be dead on the vine.

Soundinfinite

@ankeor

I never stated Mother's Sorrow was a problem. I stated REPLACING Mother's Sorrow is a problem. And its a problem for the very reason you stated, that Critical is so powerful and scales so well. With Mother's Sorrow offering the most a Magicka player can get of this stat in game. It is why it is still BIS at 5 Years of age.

As @Hiddle responded to you, Replacing Mother's while ALOS trying to keep False Gods is a double problem. And one that we are trying to solve while also making Roar of Opportunist worth wearing and Kyne's Aegis worth farming.

Soundinfinite

@vgabor

This is a great idea...again in theory!!!

While this is a great way to introduce a group buff, have a set that Rival's Mother's Sorrow Critical, and put a Major Slayer in the group. You have hit all 3 nails with 1 blow!!!!

However, it runs into the same problem as MANY MANY other ideas for sets.

1) THIS WILL NOT REPLACE MOTHER'S SORROW. It will be paired with it. You would place your set creation on the front bar of a build with Mothers Sorrow on the body. Classes built with Magicka will now run at 90-100% Critical chance at all times on the Magicka Side, while the group Critical buff does nothing to help Stamina characters.

2) Since the buffs will only require 3 people to run it, other Magicka Classes will have 0 means to run a set with ANY critical in their build besides Mother's Sorrow. Why, because with Mother's Sorrow and 3 group memebers procing the set All Magicka classes get 100% Critical. Thus, all other group memebrs would want to go with RAW DAMAGE sets for MASSIVE BASE POWER that will scale 100% of the time.

3) False God's....it is a Trash set...bye bye, compared to this. The stats of the set give you false God's Stats almost identically...but adds Mother's Sorrow power plus extra buffs for the wearers, and like I stated in point 2, you would want pure raw damage as your other 5 piece set for non-wearers.

Again, the only way to keep False God's OVER Mother's Sorrow is to make its 8% cost reduction be more significant than Mother's Sorrow's 8% Critical....or again, to release a stronger set than Mother's Sorrow in a new dungeon or overworld that doesn't carry Minor Slayer, meaning you will lose that stat if paired with Mother's Sorrow, Or Finally do what the Devs have done and make the new set worn by a limited number of players so it and False Gods will still be required and both paired STILL with Mother's Sorrow. Meaning the Mother's Sorrow META continues to live on.

Soundinfinite

@WrathOfInnos

They tried this with Cloudrest sets and the playerbase screamed bloody murder until it was reverted.

Also, if you ONLY have a Magicka Set without the stat, it makes an unbalanced delivery of the Trial's Sets. They would then need to do the same to the Stamina DPS set, the Tank, and the Healing Set....

Which again puts us in Cloudrest Territory.

They would also have to redesign all the sets to make up for the loss of their 3rd Trait.

It also, goes into dangerous territory on making a precedent for Trials no-longer needing to offer this stat on their sets in the future.

This is too narrow a scope for a fix. It only fixes what is needed by Magicka Palyers at this exact time and doesn't account for the future of the game and what will be needed for the future of sets and the longevityof the viability of this set moving forward.

It is better to create versions of sets with this stat, that then can be parred with up-coming overworld and dungeon sets which do not carry the stat. Trial sets are currently the only way to ascertain Minor Slayer in a build.

WrathOfInnos

Soundinfinite wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos

They tried this with Cloudrest sets and the playerbase screamed bloody murder until it was reverted.

Also, if you ONLY have a Magicka Set without the stat, it makes an unbalanced delivery of the Trial's Sets. They would then need to do the same to the Stamina DPS set, the Tank, and the Healing Set....

Which again puts us in Cloudrest Territory.

They would also have to redesign all the sets to make up for the loss of their 3rd Trait.

It also, goes into dangerous territory on making a precedent for Trials no-longer needing to offer this stat on their sets in the future.

This is too narrow a scope for a fix. It only fixes what is needed by Magicka Palyers at this exact time and doesn't account for the future of the game and what will be needed for the future of sets and the longevityof the viability of this set moving forward.

It is better to create versions of sets with this stat, that then can be parred with up-coming overworld and dungeon sets which do not carry the stat. Trial sets are currently the only way to ascertain Minor Slayer in a build.

Yeah, I see that side of it too. It implies that Magicka DPS actually gets non-trial sets that could be paired with these. We don’t really, which is why we’re in year 4 of Mother’s Sorrow (which is really not even a very good set). Only one light armor set drops per new dungeon, and lately they have all been support sets (Hiti’s, Hollowfang, Z’en’s) with Draugrkin being the exception (and it underperforms base game sets because it has Magicka Recovery and Spell Pen as bonuses).

If something were done about Slayer/Aegis redundancy it should apply to every set. There’s no reason a tank should lose a set bonus for wanting to pair Galanwe with Yolnahkriin. Maybe the intent is that we cannot get the full effect of 2 trial sets at the same time? But if that’s the case than why are Advancing Yokeda and other non-Slayer trial sets an option?

Edit: It’s also worth noting that the old normal crag sets were once considered the “non-perfect” versions, and the main difference was that they had a normal set bonus instead of Minor Slayer. Look at Quick Serpent vs VO and Wise Mage vs IA. I don’t think that would be the best solution currently, but similar divisions of sets by Slayer do exist.

Soundinfinite

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Soundinfinite wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos

They tried this with Cloudrest sets and the playerbase screamed bloody murder until it was reverted.

Also, if you ONLY have a Magicka Set without the stat, it makes an unbalanced delivery of the Trial's Sets. They would then need to do the same to the Stamina DPS set, the Tank, and the Healing Set....

Which again puts us in Cloudrest Territory.

They would also have to redesign all the sets to make up for the loss of their 3rd Trait.

It also, goes into dangerous territory on making a precedent for Trials no-longer needing to offer this stat on their sets in the future.

This is too narrow a scope for a fix. It only fixes what is needed by Magicka Palyers at this exact time and doesn't account for the future of the game and what will be needed for the future of sets and the longevityof the viability of this set moving forward.

It is better to create versions of sets with this stat, that then can be parred with up-coming overworld and dungeon sets which do not carry the stat. Trial sets are currently the only way to ascertain Minor Slayer in a build.

Yeah, I see that side of it too. It implies that Magicka DPS actually gets non-trial sets that could be paired with these. We don’t really, which is why we’re in year 4 of Mother’s Sorrow (which is really not even a very good set). Only one light armor set drops per new dungeon, and lately they have all been support sets (Hiti’s, Hollowfang, Z’en’s) with Draugrkin being the exception (and it underperforms base game sets because it has Magicka Recovery and Spell Pen as bonuses).

If something were done about Slayer/Aegis redundancy it should apply to every set. There’s no reason a tank should lose a set bonus for wanting to pair Galanwe with Yolnahkriin. Maybe the intent is that we cannot get the full effect of 2 trial sets at the same time? But if that’s the case than why are Advancing Yokeda and other non-Slayer trial sets an option?

Edit: It’s also worth noting that the old normal crag sets were once considered the “non-perfect” versions, and the main difference was that they had a normal set bonus instead of Minor Slayer. Look at Quick Serpent vs VO and Wise Mage vs IA. I don’t think that would be the best solution currently, but similar divisions of sets by Slayer do exist.

I see what you are getting at here, and in theory, it is sound.

If they had chosen this path from the start of introducing Perfected vs Non-Perfected sets, where they were the exact same sets with Minor Slayer being added as the perfected version, we would have a very different situation on our hands.

While this would limit the need for Vet content being run immediately as you would only farm 1 perfected set per character and just run normal content from then on out. As dungeon sets are introduced or, future trial, it could force the playerbase back into older content to run the Vet version and get the Minor Slayer perfected bonus piece to pair with the new set that doesn't carry it.

However, that would mean Zos would need to go back and adjust this for all the sets in game, which is doable.

Craglorn was a unique set of events and at a different time, as you stated.

Two-handed weapons, at the time, required you to run only 1-5 piece trait set and the other 4. This is why they release versions without Minor Slayer, so you would not lose out by having double stats if running a 2-handed weapon, like destruction stave.

Also, Craglorn dropped 3 trials at once to kickstart endgame within ESO. Because of this, they introduced more sets at once and also shared sets between the trials. Also, Dungeon DLC's weren't on a 2 per year (4 -dungeons) cycle as they are now, meaning the sets had more built in longevity and mattered more.

As such, the trial having sets without Minor Slayer was completely balanced, because you also had sets with Minor Slayer dropping from the same content.

This was a one-off unique experience, that will never likely happen again.

Soundinfinite

I thought I would be updating this post with changes from the X.2 cycle, but there isn't any updates to add.

It seems this is possibly a fight of futility. Week 3 of PTS, when the cycle changes for US to EU servers, is normally the 2nd largest patch of the PTS cycle after the original X.0 release. It is when they have had 2 weeks worth of gathering player feedback and bug reports and had sometime to get in there a change stuff up. However, with yesterday's patch there basically were not any changes done to gear, outside of Stuhn's, and no changes to class or game skills. Meaning, it seems they are intending things to go live as is.

This is very disappointing.

YandereGirlfriend

@Soundinfinite Very disappointing indeed. I can't possibly fathom how ZOS can look at these sets and the backlash and think "Yep, everything is fine here." It really does seem like the cartoon dog in the burning building meme.

I actually very much like your idea about stripping Minor Slayer from non-Perfected versions but then having all of the regular effects and stat bonuses be otherwise identical. That makes SO much more intuitive sense than throwing in a token extra 1096 Magicka and nicely sets up the value of advancing to the Veteran version of trials.