Justice system expansion Idea!

Darkness734

Some days I just want to Ramage through a village and then I see the infinite health bar of guards.... And other days I want to steal but in eso I find that crime really doesn't pay all that much. I honestly always play a thief / assassin in elder scrolls games but the thought of an npc seeing me and my bounty racking up to about half of all my gold is very unappealing and I bet most people have largely given up on trying to steal / ransack for fun, I have. What do you think should be adjusted to make crime more fun?? Expanded interconnected zones to break into places like a bank vaults? , new mechanics etc?? I don't pretend to have all the answers, and please do make more suggestions, my suggestions only extend as far as violence in the open world. Here they are

-Get rid of infinite health bars on guards and make them kill able (a challenge but killable). Make All Npcs killable (bounty is proportional to the person killed / quests interrupted) even quest givers and key ones like vivec (make them as strong as trial bosses and make achievements / special things that drop from them). Sounds crazy right? It totally is but here is the catch. The bounty racked up on one criminal player can be collected by another player or players who kill them / brings them to justice. These "police" players can be a part of a newly formed guild, (I'd say the morag tong). This would bring pvp to the open world and promote random player events to occur. To clarify this aspect of pvp can only be initiated when a criminals bounty is racked up to a threshold and only the players who accept your bounty quest will be hostile to you.

-to further this I believe a prison system should be put into place, to escape from and /or as a way to get rid of bounty in an extended manner. (say like 5 mins to 10 mins to clear the bounty?) what do you peoples think? How would you expand the justice system?

Taleof2Cities

Killable guards and open world PvP have been brought up a thousand times in the forums, @Darkness734.


Killable guards are definitely not an option. Vet players can do their thieving and killing unnoticed without the guards catching them ... so it's definitely a learn-to-play issue. What is your opinion on a Justice System without justice?

Open world PvP could only happen for players who choose to opt in. But, even then, ZOS has acknowledged the programming challenges that face such a system in the current PvE zones.

A "prison system" already exists for bounty ... which is having to log off your character until the bounty cools down. Most players find something else to do or just play another character.

Minyassa

That would make this game more like WoW. Making this game more like Wow would be like making a filet mignon more like Salisbury steak. They each have their place, there are people who have tastes for them, but let's not ruin one with the other please.

bearbelly

No sir, I don't like it.

Red_Feather

I'd prefer NPC bounty hunters. And stealing has a chance to get something really special. The reward and risk right now is not high enough to really motivate players to dive deep into the current justice system. It kind of just is there and whatever.

TheShadowScout

Darkness734 wrote: »

-Get rid of infinite health bars on guards...

...and watch as some "outlaw" guilds wipe out whole towns "fer da lulz"? Or mean players grief others by always killing their questgivers just to enjoy their ragequits?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKS_c82-h8
No thanks!

Darkness734 wrote: »

Sounds crazy right?

You said it!

Darkness734 wrote: »

The bounty racked up on one criminal player can be collected by another player or players who kill them / brings them to justice.

ZOS already made that decision "against" when they dropped the once planned PvP part of the bounty system. So... not gonna happen.

Darkness734 wrote: »

-to further this I believe a prison system should be put into place, to escape from and /or as a way to get rid of bounty in an extended manner. (say like 5 mins to 10 mins to clear the bounty?)

Are you serious???
Five to ten minutes to clear bounty, any bounty???
Nah. The current system is bad enough where people simple switch to another character of PvPlay in cyrodil for a while and all their misdeeds are gone and forgotten, no matter how much murdering they did...

I mean, I am all for more justice, great justice... even for prisons in ESO... but in a somewhat different direction:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498004/for-great-justice-ii

MusCanus

This also depends on a class. For NBs the only downside of being caught on a crime is that NPC traders won't talk to you. Other than that you can live with whatever amount of bounty without much problems.

idk

Zos already considered adding an open world PvP aspect to the justice system. Once they sat down and thought about it they realized how it could be exploited as well as the griefing often occurs and that it is not a great idea to put open-world PvP into a game mostly designed and catering to the PvE market.

Heck, even Amazon had to pull back on their PvP MMORPG and add a toggle system to allow people to opt-out and that is a game designed and intended for open-world PvP.,

Sylvermynx

I remember WoW. Where pvp was "flag on" and one was fair game. And so were guards, quest givers and merchants.

Nope. Don't have any interest in going there in this game. Go play a "real" pvp game.

notyuu

if the servers could have it I would make one change to the guards

Render them mortal, but the more you kill the more are sent after you until you loose the bounty, one way or the other.

Sylvermynx

notyuu wrote: »

if the servers could have it I would make one change to the guards

Render them mortal, but the more you kill the more are sent after you until you loose the bounty, one way or the other.

Hmm. I - rather - LIKE that! Though I'd prefer to see that you never lose the bounty, and eventually you simply get swarmed by so many guards you are just not going to live over it.

Glurin

Open world PvP is just an all around bad idea. It's not the concept or the implementation that make it a bad idea though. It's the players. All it takes is just one total *** to completely ruin the game for a huge number of other players. Especially players that are just starting out or aren't well equipped yet or just aren't as good at PvP.

I've visited other games with open world PvP. More often than not you're simply not allowed to play the game at all because there's always somebody who thinks it's funny to completely deny access to necessary areas or gameplay. Most people eventually just quit playing the game they aren't able to play and move on to one that that doesn't put up with that kind of crap. After which those very same PvPers who caused the problem in the first place cry and moan about how much of a ghost town the game world is.

Sylvermynx

@Glurin - honestly it wasn't a gankfest in either WoW or RIFT. If players never flagged, they never had to deal with pvp. However.... and it's a big one....

Since the guards, merchants, quest givers weren't inviolate.... yeah, that sucked big time for people who couldn't buy, sell, pick up quests, turn in same....

ZaroktheImmortal

I'm not big on the idea of pvp forced into PVE. Though I wouldn't mind killable guards I imagine if it were done it'd rack up quite a bounty. But feels a bit odd that guards are made unkillable people you can only flee from.

StormeReigns

Parts of the Justice System does need some (re)work.

Like being able to return accidental stolen items when talking to vender/merchant type npcs.
Player > Wonder if this chef npc has something I need...
player steals potato
Chef > Thief! I saw that! Return that at once!

Player speaks to Chef
[_] Buy
[_] Sell
[_] Buyback
[X] Return stolen good(s)

Cireous

I would love to see the justice system updated as well, but mostly because it's one of my favorite features of the game, so unique to MMOs, and I just want more of it. I want there to be more incentive to steal, such as more level gains in Legerdemain, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. I would love the addition of more quest activity for both guilds. What about different types of lockboxes with different and more challenging mini games and more interesting rewards? I also think they should take a second look at having players become guard-like justice warriors, hunting us for our stolen goods and a stake of our bounties. I think most of us agreed, awhile back, as long as it's opt-in, this could be really fun. It would also feel super immersive to have a prison system. Nothing extreme, but perhaps just force us to break out of jail and free ourselves if we don't want to do the time (which should be a relatively small amount of time regardless), where breaking out of jail almost worked like a small public dungeon with traps and halls leading to no where and groups of guards to fight our way past to make our way out.

TheShadowScout

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Hmm. I - rather - LIKE that! Though I'd prefer to see that you never lose the bounty, and eventually you simply get swarmed by so many guards you are just not going to live over it.

The thing is, if they did it that way, some groups wold -definitely- go like "lets see if we cam make enough guards spawn to crash the server..." - seen it happen in other places.

Personally I would have preferred it is the guards were mortal, but fired of a "unbreakable chains of stendarr" spell at 50% HP that arrested the criminal scum without fail.

Cireous wrote: »

I would love the addition of more quest activity for both guilds.

All guilds, really. It would have been nice if all the new regions also came with a small "for the guild!" questline... for all the guilds. Mages, fighters, thieves and assassins...

Cireous wrote: »

What about different types of lockboxes with different and more challenging mini games and more interesting rewards?

I have long hoped for more minigames!
Like to have a second "unlock" minigame for magical barriers (perhaps less of a reflex based one, and more of a "think it through" based one?) which then could be both like "doors" and "chests" in having to overcome them...

Cireous wrote: »

I also think they should take a second look at having players become guard-like justice warriors...

They have decided against the PvP part of justice. So this idea is futile to think about until and unless they officially change their minds on that.
How-ever...
...what about a PvE way for players to become guard-like justice warriors?
Like in: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii

Cireous wrote: »

I think most of us agreed, awhile back, as long as it's opt-in, this could be really fun.

The issue with the griefing potential is only one side. The other is the abuse potential... you know "Today I will be the criminal and you will play the guard, I crime and you get to 'arrest' me, over and over... and tomorrow we switch, until we both have racked up maximum rewards!" kind of stuff...

Cireous wrote: »

It would also feel super immersive to have a prison system. Nothing extreme, but perhaps just force us to break out of jail and free ourselves if we don't want to do the time (which should be a relatively small amount of time regardless), where breaking out of jail almost worked like a small public dungeon with traps and halls leading to no where and groups of guards to fight our way past to make our way out.

Prisoners tend to get disarmed for the sole reason that the guards -don't- want them to get all fighty...
IF we got a prison, it -definitely- would have to be with all armor and weapons (and quickslots for that matter) inactivated, so people could only punch a bit.

But like I mentioned in the earlier linked discussion, it would make a immersive way to punish players for being sloppy at crime in ways they'd actually care about. I mean, just imagine it... "wasting" hours of gametime in some silly prison, either breaking rocks to do your time, or find the hidden "jailbreak" quest to escape so you can pay off the rest of your bounty? I can hear the speedrun freaks wail already... and there is all those possibilities to squeeze in "prison cliché" encounters for people to stumble over...

darthgummibear_ESO

I just wish there was more to the justice system than the guards getting mad at you, especially since they are so easy to avoid/run away from. It's so shallow for such a huge part of the elder scrolls series.

Nemesis7884

I think people should get a fine for littering when they keep their pets around crafting stations...

kyle.wilson

Maybe the only change that should occur is that people caught by the guards have their char lcoked in a cell until their bounty is gone. By caught, I mean killed. Not just accosted.

The only way to get rid of a bounty without jai time is wait it out or pay a fence. No more paying guards.

MattT1988

Oh god here we go again.......

Katahdin

Darkness734 wrote: »

-Get rid of infinite health bars on guards and make them kill able (a challenge but killable). Make All Npcs killable (bounty is proportional to the person killed / quests interrupted) even quest givers and key ones like vivec (make them as strong as trial bosses and make achievements / special things that drop from them). Sounds crazy right? It totally is but here is the catch.

The bounty racked up on one criminal player can be collected by another player or players who kill them / brings them to justice. These "police" players can be a part of a newly formed guild, (I'd say the morag tong). This would bring pvp to the open world and promote random player events to occur. To clarify this aspect of pvp can only be initiated when a criminals bounty is racked up to a threshold and only the players who accept your bounty quest will be hostile to you.

-to further this I believe a prison system should be put into place, to escape from and /or as a way to get rid of bounty in an extended manner. (say like 5 mins to 10 mins to clear the bounty?) what do you peoples think?

ALL of these things have been suggested in the past.

ZoS stopped development of the justice system to a player based bounty, PVP system because they determined that it was "too easily exploited". On top of that the PVE playerbase would riot and leave in droves if forced into open world PVP. If that happened, the game would be dead in a month. That ship sailed a LONNNNGGGG time ago and isnt coming back to port.

Killable guards would negate what there is of the justice system. Mobs of players would just go into towns and kill all the guards.

Killable quest givers would break the game and result in griefing and blocking progress of players by others that that just want to make other people miserable. Whats the point of playing the game if I cant even get the quests done because some low life wants to kill all the NPC quest givers in town just because? Nope, again PvE players would riot and leave.

A prison system is the most lame thing Ive ever heard of and this isnt the first time its been suggested either.
Do you REALLY want to spend 10 minutes out of the hour or so a day you have to play with your character sitting in a prison cell that you cant get out of for the duration? NOPE, that would be extremely BORING and something I sure dont want to have to do. I would immediately log off to another character or another game if thats the case.

So no thank you. I dont think these suggestions would an interesting addition nor would they be good for the game


.

Zulera301

if anything the guards need to be stronger. it's way too easy to get away with crimes.
if that's too punishing for new players, have them and/or their abilities scale with level. or just have them deal much higher damage to higher-level players (the same way they get higher level bounties already).

or perhaps even have them summon help, the same way the Red Sails pirates do in Anvil Castle.

don't get me wrong, I was top-tier criminal scum in Oblivion and Skyrim (and if I ever stop being lazy, I'm more than 70% done with Black Market Mogul), but even now, the justice system is ESO easy to avoid, even with unkillable guards and even without slinking off to an Outlaw Refuge.

just my 2 cents.

Glurin

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Maybe the only change that should occur is that people caught by the guards have their char lcoked in a cell until their bounty is gone. By caught, I mean killed. Not just accosted.

The only way to get rid of a bounty without jai time is wait it out or pay a fence. No more paying guards.

But if the option to pay the court a fine goes away, then the song doesn't make sense anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2Jduxc2P8

Rake

When you commit crime you crash to desktop.
Oh, wait..