Roaring Opportunist 6.0.1

Kolzki

Here are my initial tests with Roaring Opportunist in 6.0.1 with some embarrasingly low dsp parses, up time numbers and general thoughts.

Here we have roaring opportunist, mother's sorror and ilambris. Flame staff front bar to maximise the full HA tick/ 25% up time on major slayer. Normal glyph setup with spell damage glyphs and back bar weapon damage.


Here's the lightning staff version. This did slightly more dps but lower buff up time. 20% major slayer up time. And yes i know that i forgot to take the alchemy passive in both cases. And yes, the dps is low.


Here's the I've swapped roaring opprotunist for infallable aether. More dps! No major slayer for anyone. Again low dps (this build got nerfed to the ground a few patches ago) but 5k higher than roaring opportunist.

Currently the set is based on damage done with 1 second per 8k damage with a minimum of 5 seconds. At 40k damage you get 5 seconds. At 48k damage you get 6 seconds. I have tested this. This is how it currently works even if it is not supposed to work like that). I don't know, either version woul match the in game text description).



Thoughts from testing:

• The scaling with heavy attack damage doesn't scale from 5 seconds. It scales from zero seconds but you have a minimum 5 second buff. To get a 6 second major slayer proc you need a 48k heavy attack. For a 1k heavy attack you will get the minimum 5 seconds proc.
• There is no point in stacking damage on a healer. You won't get over 40k damage so will always get the minimum 5 seconds.
• If you run jorvuld's then your minimum time is 7 seconds. This is equivallent to a dd with a 56k heavy attack.
• The damage is based on the final tick. This makes lightning staffs bad when using this set if you want to get over the 5 second minumum. My maximum final tick with a lightning staff was 26k, no where near close to the 48k needed for a 6 second proc. I might as well be a healer.
• The cool down is per person buffed, not per caster. There is no point in running RO on more than one person because you wont get more up time. Hitting different target doesn't help.
• The cool down doesn't interfere with master architect (it shouldn't anyway but we have to test these things).

In summary I think that RO is still a healer set. It's just been nerfed a lot. The buff duration scales really badly with the damage that heavy attack build actually do. This might be a bug in the implementation of the minimum 5 second cooldown and the duration scaling or I might have misinterpreted the pts notes. The set replaces a damage set (or heavy attack damage set) with a buff set. This lowers the already low dps of heavy attack builds. Other builds might work better but this looks less than amazing to me.

WrathOfInnos

It can still be used on a “healer” they just have to build around it in the most annoying ways possible, further closing off this set from being viable on a DPS build. The 16s/22s buff uptime requires hitting a 96k heavy attack using:
- Jorvuld’s (not viable on a DPS)
- Inferno Staff (not fun on a heavy attack build)
- All infused Spell Damage jewelry (worse than BT on DPS, painful to sustain on healer)
- Molag Kena (not viable on DPS due to the double light attack proc condition and cost increase)
- Watch for off-balance window and call for a Major Vuln ult at the same time
- Must be a Dragonknight with Molten Armaments (you know all those healers that wanted to roll DK?)
- Have to stack points in Staff Expert and put very little in Blessed, enjoy the blame when people die in red
- And need some lucky crits, Max crit chance with this gear is about 62%, so there’s a 38% your buff uptimes will suffer every time you proc RO. MoRe RnG iS fUn!

How can they look at feedback about something being bad, and immediately make it worse?

Raisin

Wanted to add that when I tested this earlier with Jorvuld, my minimum was 6, not 7.

Had 60something on staff expert, 3x infused spell damage, flame staff and offbalance procced and still didn't go above 6 seconds. Right now the set is just in a spot where the sacrifices you make to build around it make it lose its worth. The concept is fine (I liked off balance version too tbh), but numbers need adjusting.

Kolzki

The lucky crits are a killer. Healers don't hit hard enough to scale the buff, have low crit chance and i'm not even sure that a dk can do it. It's also rng for a major group damage buffs which seem very wrong.

Even lightning heavy attack builds don't hit hard enough to pass the 5 second minum buff duration. This doesn't match the goal of making it a dps set right now. I'm sure that it will change again before release.

SeaUnicorn

I was able to cheese up to 66K HA with sufficient crit rate on a DK with Master Flame Destro front and 5/5 of both RO and MS. I used vamp toggle right before and right after HA (since it's off GCD it's easy to incorporate and not kill yourself).
I once got a 80K HA with the setup, but I could not replicate it. Still do not know how exactly did I get that 80K HA
Thing is Jorvul RO gives slightly less than 5% DPS boost for a group, while MK+Zen gives 9-10% (slightly less than 5 each) so you would not trade Zen MK healer for RO healer unless it's some sort of super hard content where you can't survive on 50% stam and with less healing abilities. So it will probably go on DPS in most of the cases. That means someone in the group has to suffer with molten weapons and flame heavy attacks every 20s. Feelsbadman.

Kolzki

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

That means someone in the group has to suffer with molten weapons and flame heavy attacks every 20s. Feelsbadman.

Mag dks.. they flew so high and fell so hard.

Hooded_1

Guess i'll keep using Lokkestiiz then

AgentZenish

This went from sounding like an interesting support set that I would have farmed for my healer, to an incredibly overly complicated one that I probably won't.

Just make it a mag Lokke.

MopeyHat

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

I was able to cheese up to 66K HA with sufficient crit rate on a DK with Master Flame Destro front and 5/5 of both RO and MS. I used vamp toggle right before and right after HA (since it's off GCD it's easy to incorporate and not kill yourself).
I once got a 80K HA with the setup, but I could not replicate it. Still do not know what exactly did I get that 80K HA
Thing is Jorvul RO gives slightly less than 5% DPS boost for a group, while MK+Zen gives 9-10% (slightly less than 5 each) so you would not trade Zen MK healer for RO healer unless it's some sort of super hard content where you can't survive on 50% stam and with less healing abilities. So it will probably go on DPS in most of the cases. That means someone in the group has to suffer with molten weapons and flame heavy attacks every 20s. Feelsbadman.

I put together Master, Mother's, RO, Molag Kena and a Standard ult and managed an 83k DK heavy, resulting in 11s of Major Slayer. I think the only thing that could get higher self-buffed is probably Stranglers and the vampire buff. So...yeah.

In order to get maximum uptime on this buff for an even slightly sane build, you would have to time:

• 36s of Channelled Acceleration
• 36s of Molten Armaments
• 20s of Standard
• 10s of Major Force from Warhorn
• 6s of Molag Kena Overkill
• 4s of Master's Destruction Staff
• And then 8s of Major Berserk from a sorc's atro, or something like that

This implementation is just a head-scratcher.

SeaUnicorn

So now instead of 3 people in the group who take one for the team we have 4. 3 magcro and 1 magdk will hate playing their characters Also I do not see how this type of build caters to "low APM" players, when maximizing the proc requires so much more things to align - kena proc, vamp toggle and managing short buff from master destro.

xStaticx

Could always go back to the off-cycle PTS Empower change by buffing a fully-charged HA by X amount instead of light attack by 40%. Or have it buff both instead.

SeaUnicorn

Cheesed an 88K HA...Do not see how this cater to "Low APM HA builds" at all.

Vaoh

Wow, one of the worst designed sets I’ve ever seen in any game before.

1. It will be unavailable to be majority of the “Low APM” players they are catering to
2. It forces weird (statwise) building
3. It forces an unfun playstyle
4. It adds nothing new, and at the same time may actually be required for someone to use in an optimal group.


Please ZOS just scrap it. Come up with a cool set that brings a niche type of DPS build up to par with current BiS setups aka work toward creating build diversity in endgame. Don’t just throw Major Slayer/Aegis on everything.

Tannus15

here's the thing.

Roaring Giant.
2 – Adds 129 Spell Damage
3 – Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 (Perfected) – Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
5 – Dealing Critical Damage grants you a stack of Giant’s Endurance, up to one a second. Each stack of Giant’s Endurance adds 100 Magicka Recovery, up to 5 stacks. Dealing damage with a Fully Charged Heavy Attack removes Giant’s Endurance and grants you Giant’s Might for 10 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 158 per stack removed. You cannot have Giant’s Endurance and Might active at the same time.

Sounds good, i'll take it.

Roaring Lokke
2 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical, When you activate a synergy, gain Major Slayer for 15 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 15%.

That would be awesome too

Roaring Yokeda
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 (Perfected): Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 items: When you deal direct damage your Spell Critical is increased by 400 for 6 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. This effect can occur once every half second.

Yup, I'd be there for that.

Roaring tzogvin
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 (Perfected): Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
5 items: When you deal Critical Damage, you gain a stack of Precision, increasing your Spell Critical by 129 for 10 seconds, up to 10 stacks max. At max stacks, you also gain Minor Force, increasing your Critical Damage done by 10%.

Now I need a new pair of pants

Roaring Gryphon
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 (Perfected): Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: After dealing direct damage, you gain Minor Force and Minor Expedition for 3 seconds, increasing your Critical Damage done by 10% and increasing your Movement Speed by 10%.

I'd even take this!

Instead we get a bad support set masquerading as a dps set.

Can whoever designs the Stamina sets please, PLEASE have a word to whoever is designing mag sets and have a quiet chat about how PvE works? If it's the same person, WHY? WHY DO YOU HATE MAG!?!?!

Vaoh

Tannus15 wrote: »

here's the thing.

Roaring Giant.
2 – Adds 129 Spell Damage
3 – Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
5 (Perfected) – Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
5 – Dealing Critical Damage grants you a stack of Giant’s Endurance, up to one a second. Each stack of Giant’s Endurance adds 100 Magicka Recovery, up to 5 stacks. Dealing damage with a Fully Charged Heavy Attack removes Giant’s Endurance and grants you Giant’s Might for 10 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 158 per stack removed. You cannot have Giant’s Endurance and Might active at the same time.

Sounds good, i'll take it.

Roaring Lokke
2 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical, When you activate a synergy, gain Major Slayer for 15 seconds, increasing your damage done to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 15%.

That would be awesome too

Roaring Yokeda
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 (Perfected): Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 items: When you deal direct damage your Spell Critical is increased by 400 for 6 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. This effect can occur once every half second.

Yup, I'd be there for that.

Roaring tzogvin
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 (Perfected): Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
5 items: When you deal Critical Damage, you gain a stack of Precision, increasing your Spell Critical by 129 for 10 seconds, up to 10 stacks max. At max stacks, you also gain Minor Force, increasing your Critical Damage done by 10%.

Now I need a new pair of pants

Roaring Gryphon
2 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 833 Spell Critical
5 (Perfected): Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: After dealing direct damage, you gain Minor Force and Minor Expedition for 3 seconds, increasing your Critical Damage done by 10% and increasing your Movement Speed by 10%.

I'd even take this!

Instead we get a bad support set masquerading as a dps set.

Can whoever designs the Stamina sets please, PLEASE have a word to whoever is designing mag sets and have a quiet chat about how PvE works? If it's the same person, WHY? WHY DO YOU HATE MAG!?!?!

It’s not that they hate Mag. Whoever is designing these sets is not knowledgeable enough about ESO to make these decisions.

Part of their agenda this year is to cater to “Low APM” players through encouraging heavy attacks. Hence, Kyne’s Aegis sets are based around big buffs (Major Slayer/Aegis for the third time) through heavy attacks. This was bound to fail due to the simple fact that they assume all non-elite players want to spam heavy attacks forever and that this form of content is already least-played by those types of players. These new sets best cater to PvPers and casual PvE players.....

The Heavy Armor Tank set (Vrol’s Command) was terrible. 6.0.1 nerfed it even further to cater to their spreadsheet. No one will ever use it.

The Medium Armor Stamina DPS set (Yandir’s Might) became very powerful in PvP despite being a PvE trial set. In terms of PvE it was strong but not much more powerful compared to what we already had. 6.0.1 gave it big enough nerfs that it likely will be a trashed set now.

The Light Armor Healer set (Kyne’s Wind) has some use since it can be a solid source of sustain. Not the best set. It also was nerfed in 6.0.1, possibly ruining it.

The Light Armor Magicka DPS set (Roaring Opportunist) was bad for a DPS but would have been slotted as a new Support set. No one really liked the playstyle of heavy attacking during offbalance, but it was at least passable. In 6.0.1 they tried to further turn it into a forced Magicka DPS set yet this also failed and is full of bad design decisions (requires 96K heavy attack for full benefit, doesn’t require offbalance but still has the 22 second cooldown, etc).

Imo this is another case of the original Siroria set. Scrap all of these sets, create something interesting and new. Stop forcing Major Slayer/Aegis everywhere and stop trying to purposely design sets to be heavy attack-based just for the sake of having heavy attack trial sets. If there is a cool, unique idea then it’s fine. Saying we need to spam heavies to get the most Major Slayer uptime is lame.

Runefang

Tannus15 wrote: »

here's the thing.
[snip]
Can whoever designs the Stamina sets please, PLEASE have a word to whoever is designing mag sets and have a quiet chat about how PvE works? If it's the same person, WHY? WHY DO YOU HATE MAG!?!?!

I think part of the problem is they've gotten the stam/mag balance wrong somehow. Mag dominate PvE and Stam dominate PvP. They don't know how to fix one without breaking the other.

Septimus_Magna

I dont think the direction of this set change is bad but the implementation makes it hard to work with.
The fact that you actually have to deal dmg to get a long duration buff is pretty cool tbh.

First off, the damage numbers should account for all damage caused by the heavy attack, not just the final dmg tick.
I think that was intended but might not be working correctly atm.

Second, I think there should be a possible uptime of 67-70%, similar to Lokke with one synergy.
This means the cooldown would become 17-18 seconds.

And finally, the damage numbers could be adjusted depending on the performance, for example with the lighting staff and the splash dmg. The 96k damage with a heavy attack seems way too much, even for such a strong group buff. I think somewhere around 6000 for every second seems more realistic (starting from 1 and not 0).

There are massive downsides to this set, you need to deal high damage with a heavy attack the moment the cooldown runs out. You need to setup your build to achieve high heavy attack damage which means sacrificing dps. If you run a heavy attack rotation there is little control when the set procs which makes it difficult to alternate the major slayer buff with team members.

Varana

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

There are massive downsides to this set, you need to deal high damage with a heavy attack the moment the cooldown runs out. You need to setup your build to achieve high heavy attack damage which means sacrificing dps. If you run a heavy attack rotation there is little control when the set procs which makes it difficult to alternate the major slayer buff with team members.

Which still means that whatever they tweak, this will not be a set used by a DD.
(If they persist tying the proc to damage, the Minor Slayer might even be justified on a support set.)

Septimus_Magna

Varana wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

There are massive downsides to this set, you need to deal high damage with a heavy attack the moment the cooldown runs out. You need to setup your build to achieve high heavy attack damage which means sacrificing dps. If you run a heavy attack rotation there is little control when the set procs which makes it difficult to alternate the major slayer buff with team members.

Which still means that whatever they tweak, this will not be a set used by a DD.
(If they persist tying the proc to damage, the Minor Slayer might even be justified on a support set.)

I dont know, if the conditions are changed to make the uptime >70% for one heavy attack DD build then I think it would be worth it. If you sacrifice 20k dps on one DD but gain 4k dps for all other DDs its still a net gain. But I agree right now the cooldown and proc conditions probably make the set useless for both DDs or support.

I dont have experience with healing so I dont know what damage they could deal with a single lightning staff heavy attack. If the max proc conditions are met this could be a strong support set for back bar. On the back bar this set would be easier to control and alternate between healers. The main thing that has to change for this is the damage condition to work for the total damage caused with a heavy attack, so the full duration channel and splash damage.

Long story short, possibly a good back bar set for support if the heavy attack damage conditions are fixed/working properly.

John_Falstaff

I generally find it a very stupid and fragile design, to attach a set bonus to absolute number of damage dealt. Times change. Nerfs (and rarely buffs) land. Damage of a heavy attack is subject to many variables, in the future ZOS will decide to change something, blanket nerf damage across the board as they happened to do in the past, and the set will be a collateral. It's like they're promising us that HAs will always deal the same fixed damage as they do now and we can rely on it in our builds made for Roaring Opportunist. And we know how it goes with ZOS and promises...

It's sad to see such knee-jerk reaction on second week of PTS. Suddenly, company realizes that set isn't going to be used by DDs, as though they weren't reading our early feedback for sneak peek on sets before PTS landed, and they make a hastily slapped together fix that makes it plain mediocre for any role.

Septimus_Magna

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I generally find it a very stupid and fragile design, to attach a set bonus to absolute number of damage dealt. Times change. Nerfs (and rarely buffs) land. Damage of a heavy attack is subject to many variables, in the future ZOS will decide to change something, blanket nerf damage across the board as they happened to do in the past, and the set will be a collateral. It's like they're promising us that HAs will always deal the same fixed damage as they do now and we can rely on it in our builds made for Roaring Opportunist. And we know how it goes with ZOS and promises...

It's sad to see such knee-jerk reaction on second week of PTS. Suddenly, company realizes that set isn't going to be used by DDs, as though they weren't reading our early feedback for sneak peek on sets before PTS landed, and they make a hastily slapped together fix that makes it plain mediocre for any role.

Good point, a small change later on could easily make this set useless.

kojou

Just make it the same as Lokkestiiz and call it a day... Seriously.

I will hide my Magicka DK and pretend she never existed so I don't have to run this set.

SeaUnicorn

kojou wrote: »

Just make it the same as Lokkestiiz and call it a day... Seriously.

I will hide my Magicka DK and pretend she never existed so I don't have to run this set.

Just make them a tank, you will get shoehorned into tanking at all times and be safe from RO duty

kojou

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Just make it the same as Lokkestiiz and call it a day... Seriously.

I will hide my Magicka DK and pretend she never existed so I don't have to run this set.

Just make them a tank, you will get shoehorned into tanking at all times and be safe from RO duty

Actually I have 3 DKs, a Tank, a stamina DPS, and a magicka DPS. I was having a lot of fun with my Magicka DK and the VAS Destro staff, but I will likely have to switch to another class when this patch hits.

The thing that bothers me is why does running the new set have to be a chore. Why can't they introduce something that is fun and makes me look forward to using? I will likely try to run the trial and get completion on it, but I have no desire to farm RO.

John_Falstaff

kojou wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Just make it the same as Lokkestiiz and call it a day... Seriously.

I will hide my Magicka DK and pretend she never existed so I don't have to run this set.

Just make them a tank, you will get shoehorned into tanking at all times and be safe from RO duty

Actually I have 3 DKs, a Tank, a stamina DPS, and a magicka DPS. I was having a lot of fun with my Magicka DK and the VAS Destro staff, but I will likely have to switch to another class when this patch hits.

The thing that bothers me is why does running the new set have to be a chore. Why can't they introduce something that is fun and makes me look forward to using? I will likely try to run the trial and get completion on it, but I have no desire to farm RO.

That's a good point. I've always been baffled about some sets like that. On DD side I play magblade and I often run MA, but it's baffling that it's essentially a buff build, running Architect is actually a personal dps loss. I like providing group support (more so, I worry that RO may take that -last- bit of group support I can offer), but I still would appreciate sets that aren't "take one for the team" sort.