Dual Wield PvP

GeorgeBlack

BRP DW was a terrible concept. "Here are 2 weapons for you to wield, no shield but when u use blade cloak(what?) you have the best defence in the game."
Master DW was also bad imo. Damage over TIME bonus. Over time? Dual wield doesn't have the healing capabilities (Rally 2h) or the defensive capabilities (reduced block cost SnB). Why would you think it is a good idea to make DW an attrition playstyle weapon by giving it the worst spammable and the bet everything (back then) on damage OVER TIME with masterDW?

Come the new DLC finally BRP DW will be over. But let's see where we stand with DW as a skill line after 6 years of eso:
1)
DW has the worst PvP spammable in any skill line. Even the Psyjik Order line had a better spammable option. I still use rapid strikes because I like DW and I dont care for meta. Besides, what's to win in ESO PvP? a bg match? A cyrodiil campaign? That's based on zergs and night capping.

2) DW has Hiden blade. Yeah. A terrible melee PvP option bets everything on a ranged spammable and a dot. And then ZOS had a good idea. Let's give them a gap closer. Butchered it. Can they fix it? Yes, just like they fixed Silver Leash (remember ZOS? It was a 2 action mechanic as well and then u corrected it). Will they fix it? I don't know.... how many months has it been that NOBODY EVER used Flying Blade due to it's TERRIBLE implementation of a gap closer. NPCs since Clockwork city have better DW GAP CLOSERS.

3) Twin Slashes. Nice ability, doesn't fit with the attrition playstyle. One more ability that keeps making DW weirder and weirder.

4) SteelNado. Once, an annoying Cyrodiil feature, now a mediocre ability in a mediocre skill line. I uise it tho. I like DW. Whirling Blades, the morph nobody used for years had to be nerfed within 3 months... Yet pariahs like Stone Giant and Flying Blade are still here at least for 6 months and counting.

5) Blade Cloak. ESO has many ugly looking abilities that cover all of our styles and skins and customes (ESO end game) and why wouldn't DW have one. And what's more, a melee skill line that is supposed to be aggressive has 0 burst options, yet it has a defensive mechanism. Yes you heard right. When using two weapons you take less AoE dmg. Remember when SnB had major defile and not an AoE defence buff? The defensive weapon yea?

6) You would think that because DW sucks so much, at least ZOS would give it a good ultimate. Nope. Even here the meta is SnB/2h 2h/SnB. I did used DW ulty when it first came out. But then I said ok, I'll stick to Flurry and Twin Slashes but the rest, but I wont use that pathetic ultimate. As a stamDK is have to deal with the terrible hitbox of the clunky Noxious Breath, I do the same with a terrible ultimate. Good old Take Flight.

Now let's see the passives of DW for PvP.
1) Twin Blade and Blunt. The only good passive. No comments. However I dont see any melee Magika builds any more. And bleeds got a nerf so...... Yeah thanks, amazing passive.
2)Slaughter. Deal more dmg to low HP enemies. yeah? HOW WILL I LOWER THEM WITH THIS SKILL LINE? Better slot execution and be done with it.
3)Ruffian. Increase dmg vs enemies with snared or CCd enemies. Great, thank you ZOS for making me deal extra dmg for the one split second that it takes for anybody in Cyrodiil to use Break free. Best dmg booster ever. Compare that to all the other stamina weapon skill lines. How good it is to get away with bow, how ez it is to sustain with 2h, how solid you can stand with SnB and that's why everybody backbars it. Thank you for the boost to me dmg with my terrible DW atks when an enemy is CCd for a split of a second.
I wont talk about the generic passives that every skill line has that increase dmg and reduce cost. Only SnB has a good effect rightly so by decreasing the block cost as well. So unimaginative ZOS.... Do you know how fast people level up a character and skill lines in ESO? These abilities dont make any difference in our gaming experience.


Arena weapons: honestly my stamDK DW build was at it's best just before catsdragonsnecros dropped. I used the Master DW and loved how good my Twin Slashes was. All the other arena DW weapons? Terrible concepts. Clunky, weak, tied to skills nobody would use, bonuses to ability rotations nobody would perform in PvP and could not use in PvP because -> vMA Bow.
Why give 2h, the strongest stamina option Ulti regen, on the strongest ability the Execute and then throw all the crap at DW?

For almost 5 years I made topics to improve DW as a stamina option for PvP, getting numerous replies by the typical internet forum dwellers, disregarding any view that they dont share/care.
For almost 5 years I saw 2h/SnB SnB/2h with only stamNB slotting Bow. Only recently stamSorc can slot DW and play kinda effectivelly.

Why isn't DW a viable PvP option? "What are you talking about people will start saying. You have no clue."
"BRP dw is so op". Ye that's what I want for my dual wielding character. A defensive stupid looking ability like blade cloak.

But ye. Give us more story lines. Give us more motifs and mounts. More blanket nerfs instead of looking at what people dont use and what people overuse.
More Stone Giants, more Flying Blades.

Alucardo

I really wish they would finally look at DW. As a stam sorc you're limited to weapon ability trees. SnB got nerfed as well as bashing, so not an option, DW is only semi-viable if you're using something like Draugrkin with flurry, leaving the only option 2h and Dizzying Swing. It's getting old.
I'd like to use the DW tree, but it just seems pointless. Flurry turns you into a tickle monster, and what the hell is with that ult? I swear it does literally nothing in PvP, despite the huge tooltip.
Do we need a new weapon skill line, like spears or something? DW is obviously balanced for PvE, so look at the new weapon skill line from a PvP perspective, while still making it an option for PvE.
Alternatively, look at class morphs that aren't used and make them stamina. Here's looking at you Crystal Blast. One other option would be to give certain offensive abilities a third morph option that scales off your highest offensive stats.

relentless_turnip

I use dual wield in PVP, but mainly because I am tired of the 2H meta...
Also I have built my necro to be fast and 2H doesn't feel that way so there is that.

Dual wield is very effective for an aoe focused build too... if i blast bones, turn evil, dawn breaker and then whirling blades I will kill most the people sat on a flag. Whether reverse slice would work as well I'm not sure though, as it was always my intention to DW.

GeorgeBlack

The build would def work better with rev slice.
You are tired to 2h but you are gimping yourself.

West93

How does 1 ability giving 3 major buff on demand is even balanced. Sorry no.

Sarousse

Dual Wield is useless right now in PvP unless you're spamming tornado in a ballgroup.

It just forces everyone to play the 2h + wrecking blow meta unless you wanna be useless in many situations in PvP. As a stamsorc with no stam spammable, it's even worse.

I really hope that in today's patch they will mage real changes to Dual Wield, so we can get a real monotarget spammable and a real ultimate.

Blaqmagik

Sarousse wrote: »

Dual Wield is useless right now in PvP unless you're spamming tornado in a ballgroup.

It just forces everyone to play the 2h + wrecking blow meta unless you wanna be useless in many situations in PvP. As a stamsorc with no stam spammable, it's even worse.

I really hope that in today's patch they will mage real changes to Dual Wield, so we can get a real monotarget spammable and a real ultimate.

The only reason we even have a Wrecking Blow (actually Dizzying Swing) meta, is because all other weapon line spammables were nerfed. SnB used to have Reverb, and DW uses to have strong bleeds, not anymore. So everyone gravitated to 2h, the one weapon line that could actually deal amage.

GeorgeBlack

And while the NBs argue whether SA got buffed or nerfed I will bump again my topic of how a whole weapon skill, line since the begining of time has never been viable.

We have a complete revamp in combat due to Off balance, and DW has nothing to show for once again:
No CC
No gap closer
No good spammable
No good execution
No good survival (outside what there was with BRP, which was OP and deserved the nerf).

Once again 2h cements it's position in the front bar with fun abilities like crit charge, execute/reverse slash, d. swing.
Once again 2h gives stamClasses what they need to stay in the fight with Rally and superior passives.

SnB, which was for a long time used as front bar because it kept up immense pressure for a defensive skill line, is the go to for turtling with that ridiculous ulty.

Is this your vision of your game Zos? False sense of choice with your many skill lines?


*** Here is a suggestion. Since you messed up Flying Blade and nobody uses it why not rework it?
Make the user throw a blade, deal some dmg, gain Maj Brut and backflip [gap opener (not as good as magsorc had it with their gap closer/opener)] and move back some meters. Even DW npcs have a better gap closer than the actuall skill line.***

I still dont understand how a rogue type skill line has worse manouverability than SnB.

lucky_Sage

they need to change it to a insta cast spammable. flying blade needs a complet rework I truly don't hink DW needs a gap closer but they could make it a buff abilty that gives major brut and minor beserk

Davadin

and dont forget, they buff Master 2H too, so Carve will be slotted by many people in Cyro soon...

but back on topic, man, i'd be happy if they can just, please, buff that ultimate.

jeez, 2 morphs and both brutally suck.

(other skills and passives are fine though - i still die a few times by Steelnado......

GeorgeBlack

Davadin wrote: »

and dont forget, they buff Master 2H too, so Carve will be slotted by many people in Cyro soon...

but back on topic, man, i'd be happy if they can just, please, buff that ultimate.

jeez, 2 morphs and both brutally suck.

(other skills and passives are fine though - i still die a few times by Steelnado......

Would you find it effective to PvP with DW frontbar with an improved ulty instead of 2h frontbar? Rly?

Davadin

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

and dont forget, they buff Master 2H too, so Carve will be slotted by many people in Cyro soon...

but back on topic, man, i'd be happy if they can just, please, buff that ultimate.

jeez, 2 morphs and both brutally suck.

(other skills and passives are fine though - i still die a few times by Steelnado......

Would you find it effective to PvP with DW frontbar with an improved ulty instead of 2h frontbar? Rly?

some people rocks DW front bar very very well.... but definitely DK Leap ulti. nobody should touch DW ulti...