Ashen Grip (Essential Business Before You Update)

GrumpyDuckling

The proposed changes to Ashen Grip:
Ashen Grip: This set now deals damage in the same size as Fiery Breath does, resulting in twice the arc and reach than it previously did, ensuring it more appropriately matches the visual effects.

Before you make this move, can you please first update the reach of Fiery Breath to be more in line with most of the other similar range-based conal-skills in the game?

Scorch (Warden) = 20 meters
Arrow Spray (Bow) = 20 meters
Wall of Elements (Destruction Staff) = 18 meters
Grave Grasp (Necromancer) = 18 meters
Path of Darkness (Nightblade) = 17 meters
Encase (Sorcerer) = 17 meters
Fiery Breath (Dragonknight) = 10 meters

Thanks, a bunch.

Alucardo

Honestly I think it's fine. Fiery Breath is a melee based skill, so it shouldn't reach out any further than 10 meters anyway. I believe this skill even procs melee condition sets. Do the others you mentioned?

GrumpyDuckling

Alucardo wrote: »

Honestly I think it's fine. Fiery Breath is a melee based skill, so it shouldn't reach out any further than 10 meters anyway. I believe this skill even procs melee condition sets. Do the others you mentioned?

I don't believe Fiery Breath is tagged as melee, unless the poison morph is?

Alucardo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Honestly I think it's fine. Fiery Breath is a melee based skill, so it shouldn't reach out any further than 10 meters anyway. I believe this skill even procs melee condition sets. Do the others you mentioned?

I don't believe Fiery Breath is tagged as melee, unless the poison morph is?

Honestly I'm not too sure about the flame damage morph. I've only tested with Noxious. But they are both AOE, cone, and comes from the same base skill, so for consistency sake should be classified as melee as well.

GrumpyDuckling

Alucardo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Honestly I think it's fine. Fiery Breath is a melee based skill, so it shouldn't reach out any further than 10 meters anyway. I believe this skill even procs melee condition sets. Do the others you mentioned?

I don't believe Fiery Breath is tagged as melee, unless the poison morph is?

Honestly I'm not too sure about the flame damage morph. I've only tested with Noxious. But they are both AOE, cone, and comes from the same base skill, so for consistency sake should be classified as melee as well.

I have no idea how they determine what classifies as melee. I know that as of last year, Lotus Fan wasn't considered melee, but Ambush was (maybe because Lotus Fan technically reads that it throws knives?). But, I also don't know of any magicka morphs in the game that actually count as melee.

Ankael07

Shouldnt compare skills based on their shape or range alone.Compare them on what they do.

Scorch is a burst skill more comparable to Curse or Blastbones

Encase and Grave Grasp arent even damage skills, theyre CC/Utility.

Arrow Spray doesnt have nearly as high damage as Fiery Breath but it makes up for it in double CC and range

Alucardo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Honestly I think it's fine. Fiery Breath is a melee based skill, so it shouldn't reach out any further than 10 meters anyway. I believe this skill even procs melee condition sets. Do the others you mentioned?

I don't believe Fiery Breath is tagged as melee, unless the poison morph is?

Honestly I'm not too sure about the flame damage morph. I've only tested with Noxious. But they are both AOE, cone, and comes from the same base skill, so for consistency sake should be classified as melee as well.

I have no idea how they determine what classifies as melee. I know that as of last year, Lotus Fan wasn't considered melee, but Ambush was (maybe because Lotus Fan technically reads that it throws knives?). But, I also don't know of any magicka morphs in the game that actually count as melee.

In any case, I think a 17 meter instant and conal armor debuff with considerable damage attached to it is a bit much, don't you think? 10 meters isn't bad at all imho.

Giljabrar

/thread

GrumpyDuckling

Ankael07 wrote: »

Shouldnt compare skills based on their shape or range alone.Compare them on what they do.

Scorch is a burst skill more comparable to Curse or Blastbones

Encase and Grave Grasp arent even damage skills, theyre CC/Utility.

Arrow Spray doesnt have nearly as high damage as Fiery Breath but it makes up for it in double CC and range

In the past year+ many of the skills have been overhauled and categorized to fit "standards." Many of them had specific range adjustments to get them to fit into those standards. I don't think comparing them to "what they do" makes sense, because all of the skills are different in what they do (class diversity). I am more interested in the classification standards that they set. Seems odd to me that Fiery Breath is in this weird kinda-melee range area but extends beyond it category. Also, DK doesn't have much range in its toolkit.

Alucardo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Shouldnt compare skills based on their shape or range alone.Compare them on what they do.

Scorch is a burst skill more comparable to Curse or Blastbones

Encase and Grave Grasp arent even damage skills, theyre CC/Utility.

Arrow Spray doesnt have nearly as high damage as Fiery Breath but it makes up for it in double CC and range

In the past year+ many of the skills have been overhauled and categorized to fit "standards." Many of them had specific range adjustments to get them to fit into those standards. I don't think comparing them to "what they do" makes sense, because all of the skills are different in what they do (class diversity). I am more interested in the classification standards that they set. Seems odd to me that Fiery Breath is in this weird kinda-melee range area but extends beyond it category. Also, DK doesn't have much range in its toolkit.

If you're after range, then you're probably looking at the wrong class. DKs are all about standing your ground and dealing melee damage, ie: extra block mitigation, standard, embers, whip, fiery breath, volatile armor, magma armor, wings to ward against ranged attacks, chains to pull in ranged enemies. Literally everything they have is to help them in melee based combat.

GrumpyDuckling

Alucardo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Shouldnt compare skills based on their shape or range alone.Compare them on what they do.

Scorch is a burst skill more comparable to Curse or Blastbones

Encase and Grave Grasp arent even damage skills, theyre CC/Utility.

Arrow Spray doesnt have nearly as high damage as Fiery Breath but it makes up for it in double CC and range

In the past year+ many of the skills have been overhauled and categorized to fit "standards." Many of them had specific range adjustments to get them to fit into those standards. I don't think comparing them to "what they do" makes sense, because all of the skills are different in what they do (class diversity). I am more interested in the classification standards that they set. Seems odd to me that Fiery Breath is in this weird kinda-melee range area but extends beyond it category. Also, DK doesn't have much range in its toolkit.

If you're after range, then you're probably looking at the wrong class. DKs are all about standing your ground and dealing melee damage, ie: extra block mitigation, standard, embers, whip, fiery breath, volatile armor, magma armor, wings to ward against ranged attacks, chains to pull in ranged enemies. Literally everything they have is to help them in melee based combat.

Yeah, that's my point. It would be nice to be able to feel better about making a DK archer.

Alucardo

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Shouldnt compare skills based on their shape or range alone.Compare them on what they do.

Scorch is a burst skill more comparable to Curse or Blastbones

Encase and Grave Grasp arent even damage skills, theyre CC/Utility.

Arrow Spray doesnt have nearly as high damage as Fiery Breath but it makes up for it in double CC and range

In the past year+ many of the skills have been overhauled and categorized to fit "standards." Many of them had specific range adjustments to get them to fit into those standards. I don't think comparing them to "what they do" makes sense, because all of the skills are different in what they do (class diversity). I am more interested in the classification standards that they set. Seems odd to me that Fiery Breath is in this weird kinda-melee range area but extends beyond it category. Also, DK doesn't have much range in its toolkit.

If you're after range, then you're probably looking at the wrong class. DKs are all about standing your ground and dealing melee damage, ie: extra block mitigation, standard, embers, whip, fiery breath, volatile armor, magma armor, wings to ward against ranged attacks, chains to pull in ranged enemies. Literally everything they have is to help them in melee based combat.

Yeah, that's my point. It would be nice to be able to feel better about making a DK archer.

Hmm outside of Molten Armaments for the huge heavy attack damage I don't think they have a lot going for them in this case. I guess with the flame damage bonus, Red Mountain might be pretty nice.
But yeah, DK skills are based around the Akaviri martial arts, and I don't think bows were a huge thing for them.