Magdk PVE DPS after changes

SupremeRissole

I couldn't sustain the asyulm, zaan, elfbane FG setup, however I did hit harder with the imperfect master inferno, swapping talons for destro reach and pulse for whip. Sustain was way better too and I dont think my rota was very optimised for master inferno either so it could definately go higher.

In summary, it's sad a normal vDSA weapon is stronger than a vAS HM weapon.

Maulkin

SupremeRissole wrote: »

I couldn't sustain the asyulm, zaan, elfbane FG setup, however I did hit harder with the imperfect master inferno, swapping talons for destro reach and pulse for whip. Sustain was way better too and I dont think my rota was very optimised for master inferno either so it could definately go higher.

In summary, it's sad a normal vDSA weapon is stronger than a vAS HM weapon.

Isn't that sp. dmg. buff from master staff only 4 secs? While the DOT from it is 10 secs buffed to 15 with Elf Bane?

I imagine you reapplied a lot faster than 15" otherwise you'd have <30% uptime which makes it useless.

Rotation will be trash. Start with Trap and then Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->Whip->Whip->Whip .... repeat until trap? Like playing Magblade with Merciless? BORING!

Kolzki

Maulkin wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

The asylum staff has had a classic sledgehammer triple nerf. There’s the bug fix, the increase to needing 3 casts and the reduced 5 second window for those casts down from 10 seconds. The combination of all three basically deletes the staff from the game. Would just the bug fix have been enough to balance it?

Pal, that would require delicacy, subtlety and precision. ZOS devs don't do that.

You can have either broken OP or decon trash, nothing in between. Take your pick.

Buddy, you’re right but we’ve got to try.

SupremeRissole

Maulkin wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

I couldn't sustain the asyulm, zaan, elfbane FG setup, however I did hit harder with the imperfect master inferno, swapping talons for destro reach and pulse for whip. Sustain was way better too and I dont think my rota was very optimised for master inferno either so it could definately go higher.

In summary, it's sad a normal vDSA weapon is stronger than a vAS HM weapon.

Isn't that sp. dmg. buff from master staff only 4 secs? While the DOT from it is 10 secs buffed to 15 with Elf Bane?

I imagine you reapplied a lot faster than 15" otherwise you'd have <30% uptime which makes it useless.

Rotation will be trash. Start with Trap and then Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->Whip->Whip->Whip .... repeat until trap? Like playing Magblade with Merciless? BORING!

Like I said it was not optimised at all, just a similar rota to static asylum:
FOB, scalding, trap, eruption, blockade, embers, engulfing, reach, whip whip whip whip, reach, whip whip whip, reach
What you assumed above would most likely hit harder
my point was that it was not optimised and imperfect staff still hit harder

SupremeRissole

Just looked at the parse then, 63% uptime on destructive impact buff

robpr

Maulkin wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

I couldn't sustain the asyulm, zaan, elfbane FG setup, however I did hit harder with the imperfect master inferno, swapping talons for destro reach and pulse for whip. Sustain was way better too and I dont think my rota was very optimised for master inferno either so it could definately go higher.

In summary, it's sad a normal vDSA weapon is stronger than a vAS HM weapon.

Isn't that sp. dmg. buff from master staff only 4 secs? While the DOT from it is 10 secs buffed to 15 with Elf Bane?

I imagine you reapplied a lot faster than 15" otherwise you'd have <30% uptime which makes it useless.

Rotation will be trash. Start with Trap and then Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->DoT->DoT->DoT->Reach->Whip->Whip->Whip .... repeat until trap? Like playing Magblade with Merciless? BORING!

Yes, it turns you into Warden, lol. Every 3th ability cast Reach.

Maulkin

SupremeRissole wrote: »

Just looked at the parse then, 63% uptime on destructive impact buff

Missing 600 sp. dmg. buff for more than 1/3 of the parse suggests there can be significant improvements on the rotation and therefore total dps. This might just work you know. If they don't nerf that staff too that is.

Did you try grothdarr instead of zaan? That is still buffed by elf bane right? I wonder if 100% uptime Groth is better than new, unbuffed Zaan.

JinMori

seerevaloc wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Make both sets proc on 2 instead of 3.

Mag dk with asylum was so strong because of a bug also.

Also since the sets have chnaged the skills also will, therefore slotting molten whip changing sets around will probably achieve about the same result as pre nerf.

Iv'e made a post a few days ago about what they should improve in this patch.

Which set is altering Molten Whip?

What do you mean? No set alters molten whip, but it's a much better spammable than force pulse, with this nerf mag dk will probably switch around a few sets are return using whip as their spammable.

Olupajmibanan

JinMori wrote: »

seerevaloc wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Make both sets proc on 2 instead of 3.

Mag dk with asylum was so strong because of a bug also.

Also since the sets have chnaged the skills also will, therefore slotting molten whip changing sets around will probably achieve about the same result as pre nerf.

Iv'e made a post a few days ago about what they should improve in this patch.

Which set is altering Molten Whip?

What do you mean? No set alters molten whip, but it's a much better spammable than force pulse, with this nerf mag dk will probably switch around a few sets are return using whip as their spammable.

Getting back to Whip will mean getting back to not be invited over stamina characters. MagDK had like two years of not getting into trials, because you have limited melee spots and seriously, there was no reason to pick magDK over stamina. Asylum destro was a salvation for magDKs and it was not the burning bug (well it was to some extent), but the ability to use ranged spammable without hurting your sustain which was always terrible on magDK.

I enjoyed my Asylum magDK, but if asylum nerf isn't reverted I might just switch to stamina.

swaggasm

I tried the old setup with pulse and whip, in the new trial on hardmode, couldn't sustain. Swapped to blood for blood and had more then enough sustain.
Some parses from two of the hardmode fights




I'm sure theirs a better setup to what I currently have, but for now this is working for me.

daemonor

swaggasm wrote: »

I tried the old setup with pulse and whip, in the new trial on hardmode, couldn't sustain. Swapped to blood for blood and had more then enough sustain.
Some parses from two of the hardmode fights




I'm sure theirs a better setup to what I currently have, but for now this is working for me.

using what? Zaan 5 elf 5 false gods instead of 3 false gods and asylum ?

flacidstone

swaggasm wrote: »

I tried the old setup with pulse and whip, in the new trial on hardmode, couldn't sustain. Swapped to blood for blood and had more then enough sustain.
Some parses from two of the hardmode fights




I'm sure theirs a better setup to what I currently have, but for now this is working for me.

So what’ sets for these? I think vamp skills may be the new meta for a lot of classes if they can sustain it

swaggasm

I just had Zaan, 5pc elfbane, 5pc false god

daemonor

Best parse on pts with mag dk so far 5 elf bane 5 siroria 2 grothgar. Same rotation as asylum just replaced whip and ran charged staff with thief mundus, 0 sustain issues.



Using blood for blood with precise staff and shadow mundus and zaan got 3k less dps. Probably the more realistic setup cause you don't get to stay in siroria for 100% uptime.

Edit : nmv tried bloodforblood again and parsed equaly could probably get higher with more practice. Weaving blood for blood feels super smooth aswell.

flacidstone

77k quite the difference from live

Atherakhia

It needs to be said that the take away from this thread shouldn't be to simply revert the changes to the Asylum staff or buff it in some fashion. It's clear that the MagDK as a whole is only functional because of this weapon and has larger issues that need to be resolved. Simply changing the staff to every 2nd cast instead of every 3rd is effectively a bandaid for a severed limb. The class isn't competitive without abusing a questionable mechanic and needs to change.

PvP is similarly not that much better.

flacidstone

77k is not worth taking up that melee spot. Might be a big ole rip

daemonor

flacidstone wrote: »

77k is not worth taking up that melee spot. Might be a big ole rip

Im far from the best player tho, but managed to squeeze out 80k with the blood for blood spammable on the 21m dummy. Would be interesting to see top players parses on the 21mil.

Caelc

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Is there a reason your LA/second ratio is so much lower in the PTS? Ie, is it related to the nerfs somehow, or just shoddy PTS performance?

If it's just the PTS being clunky then I think it's really hard to compare these bc the LA/sec ratios are so different.

yeah I cant sustain at all, I get to about 70% of the raid dummy's health before Im almost out of sustain

well your burning damage was pathetic on pts so it wasn't applying it which means you were not getting the sustain from the passive.

so question is, why were you not applying burning so often on pts? bugged or something else

Olupajmibanan

Atherakhia wrote: »

It needs to be said that the take away from this thread shouldn't be to simply revert the changes to the Asylum staff or buff it in some fashion. It's clear that the MagDK as a whole is only functional because of this weapon and has larger issues that need to be resolved. Simply changing the staff to every 2nd cast instead of every 3rd is effectively a bandaid for a severed limb. The class isn't competitive without abusing a questionable mechanic and needs to change.

PvP is similarly not that much better.

I agree with you that magDK to be worked on. But that's a lot of work and time needed and while we wait for that, we should have that bandaid to not bleed out (being replaced with stamina).

Not even saying that there are PvE encounters and PvP where AS inferno was used regardless of class. This is my biggest problem with AS destro change - Zeni wanted to tone down Asylum magDK (they destroyed it completely, actualy) but didn't thought of all non-DK asylum users that got destroyed in the process as well.

daemonor

Could bring it up to 85k replacing false gods with siroria, since you have 0 sustain issues if using blood for blood as your spammable anyway.


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Kingslayer513

kalunte wrote: »

am i the only one shocked by "burning" status effect doing 12k dps on live? oO

it also seems that it crited to 27k on pts, which is another thing i dont get.


basically numbers says you're loosing 9k dps with just burning status effect and Zaan, you already said that you had to do many HA for sustain (probably because not having the extra 10% regen from live's vamp).

sounds logical, not justified or whatever, just logical.

I've heard about a bug on pts where burning on magdk is scaling with zaan's damage increase. So you end up with ridiculously high damage ticks.

robpr

Caelc wrote: »

well your burning damage was pathetic on pts so it wasn't applying it which means you were not getting the sustain from the passive.
`
so question is, why were you not applying burning so often on pts? bugged or something else

Currently on live when Asylum procs you get Burning for every running fire dot on target. They fixed that in addition to proc every third cast.

Maulkin

daemonor wrote: »

Could bring it up to 85k replacing false gods with siroria, since you have 0 sustain issues if using blood for blood as your spammable anyway.


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I'm assuming stage 4, right? Is Siroria front-bar only? You would lose a lot stacks in a raid that way.

I'd like to see someone try 2xGroth, 5xElf Bane, 3xInfallible (crit + minor slayer), vDSA front, vMA back, using BFB as spammable and Fire Reach every 4" to proc the sp. dmg. buff while keeping >95% uptime.

I'm curious to see what the dps and sustain will be like because that buff is equal to full stacks of Siroria and you can keep mobile with higher uptime.

validifyedneb18_ESO

If you're being throttled by regen, have you tried increasing your regen to find the new "sweet spot" where DPS is highest?

richo262

Were you a vamp level 4? That would hit your sustain by about 20%.

daemonor

I was vampire stage 1 since the only vamp skill i was using is blood for blood and it costs health - just enough to fit 10 spammables in 1 rotation before healing up with burning embers again.

No way im trying to come up with a rotation with clench every 4th spell, too much effort for possibilt net negative result.

Zalathorm

Save magdk.

Revert staff back to 2 casts on perfected. Keep the fix to status proc and the reduction to 5s