Vampire 20% Cost Increase Non Vamp Abilities

Auros

Definitely will stop being vampire and very big disappointment. I am not into RP with a Vampire. WW is more and more tempting now.

preevious

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

L_Nici

20% is insane. 5% of Acolythe is already a lot and forces you to use at least one Cost reduction glyph on Jewelry, 20% is just absolutely over the top, that makes Vampire completely useless in PvP you just can't compete.

Anyron

while new vamp has serious disadvantages, it comes with really good buffs.

if you wanna keep normal skill cost lower than 20% something has to go. you just cant have Unnatural movement, Dark stalker, Undeath and Strike from shadows without any penalties.

20% cost isnt that much compared to what you get. most people heave some reserves at sustaining magicka or stamina so 5-10% cost increase doesnt mean anything for them - while extra spell or weapon damage certainly is useful.


i think new vamp is ballanced. you get strong buffs but it cost something

Papachico

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

preevious

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

Belyar

You just have to use the new ultimate with the morph that negates this problem. It doesn't have insanely high cost so should be fine. Overall its still a massive buff compared to what we had until now.

Papachico

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. Have you ever played eso or are you just hanging around on the forum?

Sarannah

So basically when we are a vampire, we are now f- in every other way when not using full vampire skills only. That would be insanely stupid for ZOS to do.

And when you think about it some more, this will hurt lower tier players alot worse than high tier players.

If they really make non-vamp skills have a 20% cost increase when you are a vampire... they should just keep the current iteration and skillline of vampire. Atleast the way it is now is fun!

oregonrob

Something to consider, that would be lore friendly, is at some point to introduce different vampire families with a different mix of pluses and minuses and allow the players to decide which path to follow. It could also solve the debate on how a vampire character looks by having one family be illusion based and have a glamour ability to hide their vampirism. In any case, given the past, expect vampire to retooled again by this time next year.

Ri_Khan

I can't believe it took this long for them to finally add a reason to not be a vampire.

preevious

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. Have you ever played eso or are you just hanging around on the forum?

Aaaaaand wrong again.

Read my post again, nowhere did I say I was going to stay ult all the time.

My theory is doing a rotation, refill mana and stamina with ult, doing a rotation refill mana and stamina with ult when it's back ..
I just have to wait for it to be back up, and then rejuvenate again. Should be doable, since I'll be then at full mag AND with 10k extra max mag.

Believe it or not, your ult will *gasp* recharche after being used !!

PS : by the way, the quotation marks around "theory" was a nice touch. Definitely increased your credibility, there, yup

Lintashi

Ok, so where is my vampiric healing skills for my vamp healer? Or I should go with " play as you want" just be 20% worse than everyone else, if I want to be both vampire and healer?

Papachico

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. Have you ever played eso or are you just hanging around on the forum?

Aaaaaand wrong again.

Read my post again, nowhere did I say I was going to stay ult all the time.

My theory is doing a rotation, refill mana and stamina with ult, doing a rotation refill mana and stamina with ult when it's back ..
I just have to wait for it to be back up, and then rejuvenate again. Should be doable, since I'll be then at full mag AND with 10k extra max mag.

Believe it or not, your ult will *gasp* recharche after being used !!

PS : by the way, the quotation marks around "theory" was a nice touch. Definitely increased your credibility, there, yup

[snip] The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam. Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate. So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive. Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

[edited for baiting]

Nova_J

I have a vampire healer that I play on and a 20% increase is going to kill it completely. All this is doing is forcing you to play a specific way, there is literally no other way to play a vamp with these changes other than being a dps.
And no I dont want to be forced into changing into a scion evry 30 seconds just to get my resources back. I love vamps and almost all my characters are vampires. And one of the fun things about them is that I can still use them in whatever content I wish, now I wont even be able to be stage 1 without a 5% cost increase to all my abilities. It's a vamp HEALER the new skill line doesnt really have any support abilities let alone team healing abilities. I would still be running only 1 or 2 vamp abilities max, the rest would be class skills etc.
And the fact that I can't really do things like dlc dungeons and such while satge 4 is really gonna cut into my rp. I literally made this character specifically to be turned into a vamp.
Am I missing something? Why are the devs acting like these skills are viable on any class? Any tank or healer vamp build is gonna be mopped after these changes. They keep saying "play how you want" but then force you into playing vampire a specific way only smh. I dont like this at all.

brandonv516

People need to specialize to actually play it rather than just get handed the passives. Good changes.

preevious

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. Have you ever played eso or are you just hanging around on the forum?

Aaaaaand wrong again.

Read my post again, nowhere did I say I was going to stay ult all the time.

My theory is doing a rotation, refill mana and stamina with ult, doing a rotation refill mana and stamina with ult when it's back ..
I just have to wait for it to be back up, and then rejuvenate again. Should be doable, since I'll be then at full mag AND with 10k extra max mag.

Believe it or not, your ult will *gasp* recharche after being used !!

PS : by the way, the quotation marks around "theory" was a nice touch. Definitely increased your credibility, there, yup

[snip] The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam. Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate. So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive. Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

[edited for baiting]

OK, let's see why you can't understand, point by point, hmm?


Yes and now let me explain [snip].

now, there a difference between[snip] a theory you don't understand, and a theory you don't wanna agree with {edited for baiting]

The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam.

Now, when you say the ult costs 170 .. do you factor in the cost decrease of vampire skill? Still, even if you do, 170 is really not a lot, I can fire my current ult 2-3 times before I start having sustain issue. Lets suppose I go from 2-3 to 1-2, for the sake of it, and you'll realise that since the ult REFILLS YOU COMPLETELY, 1 is all you'll ever need

Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate.

No, no, and no, that's short-sighted again, at best. You were able to get to your first ult, starting the fight. Why the hell wouldn't you be able to reach the 2nd ult, since you start from 10K HIGHER than you started with the first? Are you aware that your normal regen and your potions are still working? Are you aware the 10k will be substracted to your MAX pool, and not your CURRENT pool? You won't lose a lot of resources, if any

So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive.

Let me get this straigth .. starting with a FULL BAR + 10 FREAKING K you can't last 1 minute without being dry? i mean .. for real? And I am the one that can't play the game? This is rich

Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

And I'll answer : there is none, because there's no need for it. Vamp is now an integrate part of a build, not a collection of passive. If you don't feel you can last 1 minute with the increased cost, don't play that build. Play another, there's plenty

Papachico

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. [snip]?

Aaaaaand wrong again.

Read my post again, nowhere did I say I was going to stay ult all the time.

My theory is doing a rotation, refill mana and stamina with ult, doing a rotation refill mana and stamina with ult when it's back ..
I just have to wait for it to be back up, and then rejuvenate again. Should be doable, since I'll be then at full mag AND with 10k extra max mag.

Believe it or not, your ult will *gasp* recharche after being used !!

[snip]

[snip]. The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam. Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate. So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive. Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

OK, let's see why you can't understand, point by point, hmm?


Yes and now let me explain [snip].

now, there a difference between[snip] a theory you don't understand, and a theory you don't wanna agree with {edited for baiting]

The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam.

Now, when you say the ult costs 170 .. do you factor in the cost decrease of vampire skill? Still, even if you do, 170 is really not a lot, I can fire my current ult 2-3 times before I start having sustain issue. Lets suppose I go from 2-3 to 1-2, for the sake of it, and you'll realise that since the ult REFILLS YOU COMPLETELY, 1 is all you'll ever need

Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate.

No, no, and no, that's short-sighted again, at best. You were able to get to your first ult, starting the fight. Why the hell wouldn't you be able to reach the 2nd ult, since you start from 10K HIGHER than you started with the first? Are you aware that your normal regen and your potions are still working? Are you aware the 10k will be substracted to your MAX pool, and not your CURRENT pool? You won't lose a lot of resources, if any

So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive.

Let me get this straigth .. starting with a FULL BAR + 10 FREAKING K you can't last 1 minute without being dry? i mean .. for real? And I am the one that can't play the game? This is rich

Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

And I'll answer : there is none, because there's no need for it. Vamp is now an integrate part of a build, not a collection of passive. If you don't feel you can last 1 minute with the increased cost, don't play that build. Play another, there's plenty[/b]

Let me get this straigth .. starting with a FULL BAR + 10 FREAKING K you can't last 1 minute without being dry? i mean .. for real? And I am the one that can't play the game? This is rich

Why can't you just take the time to read my actual comment? what are you trying to prove here? YOU DON"T REGEN ULT WHILE BEING IN THE ULT AND THAT ONE MINUTE IS THE MINUTE AFTER YOUR ULT EXPIRES CALCULATED FROM AN AVERAGE OF 3 ULT PER SECOND. SO YES YOU DO GET HIT BY 40% COST INCREASE.

[snip]. I suppose you never played PvP [snip]t. In PvP you actually need a certain amount of sustain and can't go full damage running 800-900 regen like in PvE.

farorae

The changes wouldn’t be half as bad is you could actually make a viable build utilizing most of the vampire abilities, but you simply can’t. The way they setup the passives assumes you can realistically use all of the vampire abilities in a build (you can’t). In fact, you can maybe use max 1-2 of the abilities in a build. So all of your other abilities are punished for 1-2 abilities? In what world is that balanced.

Shadowasrial

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Just a theory, as I don't play on the PTS :

The cost weakness is not that bad.

It's supposed to blend with the ultimate. Even with the cost increase, if you run completely out of magicka/stamina before you can launch your first ultimate, something's very wrong.

So, yeah, you deplete yourself,
then transform into a blood scion, thus getting entirely rejuvenated (as well as obtaining 10k max mag and stam, wich amounts roughly to 1k added spell and weapon damage)
Then, you deplete yourself again

etc, etc...

Seems pretty viable to me.
Of course, if you want to use another ult, you'll be in for troubles, but nothing is free ..

Oke and now read the part where they introduce ultimate draining poisons and read your reply again.

And?

Sorry, but your answer is based on a not well thought out assumption.

I mean, no build is supposed to be strong versus everything. I mean, ultimate-drainer poison carrier will make a vamp's day bad, sure .. at the cost of being less effective against other builds.
Of course there's gotta be something that'll ruin any given build ! The game would be *** if that wasn't the case.

Please, accept that there will be build tailor-made to wreck you. Everyone's day will be better.
When I read posts, here, all I read is
"I accept weaknesses, but not on something that would actually impact me in any way"

haha what are you talking about your "theory" is to stay in ultimate 24/7.. on a 100+ ult cost ultimate. Have you ever played eso or are you just hanging around on the forum?

Aaaaaand wrong again.

Read my post again, nowhere did I say I was going to stay ult all the time.

My theory is doing a rotation, refill mana and stamina with ult, doing a rotation refill mana and stamina with ult when it's back ..
I just have to wait for it to be back up, and then rejuvenate again. Should be doable, since I'll be then at full mag AND with 10k extra max mag.

Believe it or not, your ult will *gasp* recharche after being used !!

PS : by the way, the quotation marks around "theory" was a nice touch. Definitely increased your credibility, there, yup

[snip]. The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam. Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate. So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive. Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

OK, let's see why you can't understand, point by point, hmm?


Yes and now let me explain [snip].

now, there a difference between[snip] a theory you don't understand, and a theory you don't wanna agree with {edited for baiting]

The ultimate costs 170 when you transform you don't have the drawback of 20% cost increase but skills still costs mana / stam.

Now, when you say the ult costs 170 .. do you factor in the cost decrease of vampire skill? Still, even if you do, 170 is really not a lot, I can fire my current ult 2-3 times before I start having sustain issue. Lets suppose I go from 2-3 to 1-2, for the sake of it, and you'll realise that since the ult REFILLS YOU COMPLETELY, 1 is all you'll ever need

Once your ult is finished you lose the 10k extra resources and will be back to your normal pools, which given the fact that you use your skills during your ultimate form are drained more than the 10k you get from your ultimate.

No, no, and no, that's short-sighted again, at best. You were able to get to your first ult, starting the fight. Why the hell wouldn't you be able to reach the 2nd ult, since you start from 10K HIGHER than you started with the first? Are you aware that your normal regen and your potions are still working? Are you aware the 10k will be substracted to your MAX pool, and not your CURRENT pool? You won't lose a lot of resources, if any

So now this is where your theory gets interesting first thing you need to know is you DO NOT regen ultimate points while in vampire ult. So after the vamp ult expires you need to regen 170 ult points, let's say 3 ult points per second this will take you 1 minute of active combat. Your "theory" suggest you just heavy attack?? for the that full minute to regain your resources? This might work in PvE although you would be completely usesless, but in a PvP scenario you have no choice to actually heal/dodge/block in other words use active abilities to survive.

Let me get this straigth .. starting with a FULL BAR + 10 FREAKING K you can't last 1 minute without being dry? i mean .. for real? And I am the one that can't play the game? This is rich

Now let's get back to the 20% cost increase while being in active combat in pvp (since this is needed to regen ult, unless you are a NB you can sneak use 9 potions and get 180 ult, fun fun fun). Let's say you have average apm and use 1 skill per second you still end up with a cost increase that equal 1,2k mag regen (read OP) and this is unsustainable for 1 minute. So let's get back to my initial question which passive in eso gives something equal to 1,2k regen?

And I'll answer : there is none, because there's no need for it. Vamp is now an integrate part of a build, not a collection of passive. If you don't feel you can last 1 minute with the increased cost, don't play that build. Play another, there's plenty[/b]
[/b]

You obviously don’t pvp. Sustain is everything in pvp. You run out of resources and your as good as dead. And the vampire abilities by themselves aren’t strong enough to be viable dps builds in pvp. You have very few skills that cause damage in the vamp skill line. You need to actually use class or weapon skills and with the increased cost you won’t be able to out sustain your opponent. Vamp isn’t supposed to just be for rp or tanking. It’s supposed to be jack of all trades. It’s essentially a meta human. And while I could deal with the fire damage and the health recovery it’s honestly too much of a downside to anyone but a tank to use this new skill line.

emilyhyoyeon

Nova_J wrote: »

I have a vampire healer that I play on and a 20% increase is going to kill it completely. All this is doing is forcing you to play a specific way, there is literally no other way to play a vamp with these changes other than being a dps.
And no I dont want to be forced into changing into a scion evry 30 seconds just to get my resources back. I love vamps and almost all my characters are vampires. And one of the fun things about them is that I can still use them in whatever content I wish, now I wont even be able to be stage 1 without a 5% cost increase to all my abilities. It's a vamp HEALER the new skill line doesnt really have any support abilities let alone team healing abilities. I would still be running only 1 or 2 vamp abilities max, the rest would be class skills etc.
And the fact that I can't really do things like dlc dungeons and such while satge 4 is really gonna cut into my rp. I literally made this character specifically to be turned into a vamp.
Am I missing something? Why are the devs acting like these skills are viable on any class? Any tank or healer vamp build is gonna be mopped after these changes. They keep saying "play how you want" but then force you into playing vampire a specific way only smh. I dont like this at all.

This is how I feel too. I don't want vampire to be meta for everyone at all, but as someone who has a vampire character for ONLY the rp reason, it feels like it's too hard to do that. I don't want vampire to be insanely good for every setup as it is now, but I don't want every other setup except ''blood scion vampire'' to be so drastically debuffed.

Artorias24

Vamp was Always a skillline to support your class skills. And give you some additional power/skills in a tradeoff to be much weaker to fire and dont have normal health regen. Sure this was only effecting you when you have to deal with fire damage and looking at the new passive you need another downside for Sure. But NOT cost increase on every non vamp skill.

How about vamps Take 5% more melee damage? Vamps are mages or stealthy assassins. They are not supposed to be tanky besides vamp lord form maybe.

Pls ZOS, dont go with cost increase.

Septimus_Magna

After some testing Ive come to the conclusion that the cost increase would make me drop vamp on all stamina builds and the magicka builds that dont have a better spammable then Blood for Blood. For the magicka builds with bad spammables only stage 1 or 2 seems to be appealing because the disadvantages are getting pretty serious in the later stages.

I think the cost increase for non-vampire abilities ruins a lot of the build diversity that is possible with the new vamp skills. There should be a massive increase in non-vampire ultimate cost, it makes sense for vamps to use their vamp form ult. The regular non-vamp ability cost increase is too much. I feel like becoming a vamp means losing almost all class identity because you'll mainly use vamp skills or you run out of resources. Maybe something like 2/4/6/8% cost increase for non-vamp skills on top of the disadvantages like reduced flame resist and lower health regen.

The skill Blood Frenzy has been fun to test with, its a massive damage boost but for a very high price. The health drain of both morphs is fine but the fact that you cannot be healed by others makes it very hard to use in group content. I think a better option would be to reducing incoming health for others by 50% for the base skill and 75% for the Simmering Frenzy morph. This would make healers more valuable in group content because DDs would often be vamps that take more fire damage and have a constant health drain with Blood Frenzy.

WhyMustItBe

Papachico wrote: »

Given the fact that they pointed out that APM is a thing %cost increases are effecting high end players the most. Reason why they would want such mechanic is totally unkown. Since I would suggest they would embrace players to progress and improve in the game they've developed. Also as a new player you should have something to look up to.

I'd be interested in a source to those statements. This seems like it MIGHT be a case of them chasing PVP balance at the cost of PVE fun/playability, but I'd have to see the context.

For example in a discussion about PVP performance and blanket healing and other nerfs, I suggested a scaling regen debuff applied to Battle Spirit instead tied to your current success streak. The idea was in PVP ONLY, to create a sort of 'wax and wane' style of fight to combat zergs and macro spammers, where people that were totally dominating would, after a generous grace period, begin to see a stacking debuff to their resource regen leading to diminishing returns.

This was to allow zergs to be busted and counter-offensives to be mounted to avoid one-sided maps and organized groups of totally golded veterans just dominating with no chance at competition or fun for newcomers or lower CP players, and also to cut down on the APM causing server load as 'mashers' would be gradually forced to either slow their roll or take to the bench for a 'cooldown period.'

This concept was NEVER intended to spill over into PVE however, and I see little benefit to further nerfing sustain as the combat changes in Morrowind that started this trend were one of the most hated and detrimental changes to the game that I remember in 6+ years of playing.

It would be like doubling down on an obvious loser.

Mayrael

Cost increase is very good. If you want to play vampire you will be stronger, if you used vampire as a passive buff then this time is over, deal with it.

WhyMustItBe

Mayrael wrote: »

Cost increase is very good. If you want to play vampire you will be stronger, if you used vampire as a passive buff then this time is over, deal with it.

I don't think it's that simple. Most people, myself included, probably welcomed the news of an overhaul to vampirism with new active abilities to explore and build around.

The problem has nothing to do with using vampire as a passive. If that were the issue werewolf wouldn't be keeping their 15% stamina regen passive (higher than the regen passive vampires just lost) just for slotting the ultimate without ever transforming into wolf mode.

The problem is the lack of a complete rotation of vampire abilities.

If vampire were getting a viable damage rotation toolkit, with single target, damage over time & and AOE, plus CC/utility and self heals all in one complete package like werewolf has, there would be no problem with SOME increased cost on other abilities, since you wouldn't be relying on them still for the vast majority of your damage as you must with the current PTS vampire.

Instead of a complete toolkit however vampires are really only getting one spammable ability for low cost and a transformation that temporarily removes the 20% increased cost of non-vampire abilities. Their "AOE" is Blood Mist which is mainly a heal, is toggled and doesn't let you cast other thing while it damages, plus its damage is about half that of other AOE like Endless Hail which you "fire and forget."

You can't continue your normal rotation while the AOE is going, making it a huge DPS loss and not viable for much outside of solo play and maybe healing inside an enemy zerg in PVP. The same goes for the 3 sec single target drain heal that does a little damage (like 2k per tick). You get a stun CC which is nice, but not really useful in a damage rotation, and you get another toggle that damages you per second but buffs your spell/weapon power by around 600 (a little better than a 5-piece bonus like Burning Spellweave or Clever Alchemist).

Without a complete toolkit of vampire abilities with which to do damage, 20% additional cost on the majority of your actual rotation leads to a totally unsatisfying experience in most situations of being constantly resource starved and under-performing in group activities.

It might be possible to specifically build for stacking burst windows in PVP, but there is very little opportunity for success in most PVE group content.

If someone didn't care about playing an MMO as a multi player game that might not really matter to them, which is fine. However to my way of thinking an overhaul to a rotation must at least include a complete rotation, otherwise you can't take away the ability to rely on the old rotation it is supposed to replace.

A 20% ability cost penalty is pretty much taking away healing, tanking, and viable PVE DPS from people who choose to go vampire, as there is simply no way to sustain that level of resource drain on top of the game's already extensive regen nerfs.

You either have to compromise on using resource regen gear or using non-optimal regen drinks, enchants, etc., or just accept that unlike werewolf, vampire is simply no longer intended to be a viable, playable sub-class in group play and instead, can only really be used for solo and RP purposes with maybe some "zerg bomber" niche in PVP.

But all they would really have to do to fix it is take away the resource cost penalty and make Scion change your vampire abilities to do different things while transformed.