Vampire 20% Cost Increase Non Vamp Abilities

Papachico

This a direct nerf to "high APM" players #changemymind

lets say baseline skillcost is 3.000 suggesting you have at least half a brain and use 1 skill per second this means cost increase of 600 per second.
600 per second equals 1.200 regen, please tell me which passive gives you 1.200 regen?

Utterly *** new way of trying to balance the game with flat cost increases.

Ardan147

I guess that means a number of my vampire toons are going to stop being vampires. Just as well, I effin' hate how it ruins their appearance.

WhyMustItBe

What is really terrible about this design change is that it punishes vampire players in a way WW players do not get punished.

WW can choose not to slot the ultimate or not transform, and get NO PENALTY for that.

With the new vampire, even at the lowest rank, with none of the beneficial passives active, you STILL get a 5% cost increase to all your skills. There is no option to rank down for group content without suffering penalties for no benefit!

There is simply no reason that rank 1 should penalize you when WW does not. This disproportionately harms one specific group of players with no benefit. They should make the skill cost increase 0% at rank 1 to be fair/playable.

Otherwise this vampire overhaul will end up being a real demoralizing disappointment that makes people want to engage with the game less as their favorite characters/playstyle are penalized for no good reason.

Also consider that vampires only get 1 damaging ability. All of your AOE, CC, utility, etc. still must come from non-vamp abilities which, at max rank, will cost 20% more to cast.

That level of penalty is so out of line with the reward as to be nigh unplayable.

This system needs SERIOUS readjustment.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we ask the devs to reconsider this in light of the overwhelmingly negative impact this will have on players who just want to be vamp for solo and rank down for group content (the majority)? Particularly since WW can choose to not slot the ultimate or shapeshift and suffer no penalty?

I suggest 0%, 5%, 10%, 15% as a simple fix, but even this may be too much considering vampire gets no AOE (as WW does) and only 1 vampire damage skill, still needing all your AOE, CC, and utility to come from non-vampire abilities which at even a lower 15% cost increase will quickly become unplayable in veteran dungeon and trial settings, in terms of sustain.

I feel the fire damage and health regen debuffs are more than enough to counteract the minimal positives you gain. Consider the negatives of being a werewolf (poison vulnerability only?) and I feel that we are trying too hard to add too many negatives to counterbalance positives which simply are not actually there in the level that we assume, at least in terms of normal play.

Papachico

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

What is really terrible about this design change is that it punishes vampire players in a way WW players do not get punished.

WW can choose not to slot the ultimate or not transform, and get NO PENALTY for that.

With the new vampire, even at the lowest rank, with none of the beneficial passives active, you STILL get a 5% cost increase to all your skills. There is no option to rank down for group content without suffering penalties for no benefit!

There is simply no reason that rank 1 should penalize you when WW does not. This disproportionately harms one specific group of players with no benefit. They should make the skill cost increase 0% at rank 1 to be fair/playable.

Otherwise this vampire overhaul will end up being a real demoralizing disappointment that makes people want to engage with the game less as their favorite characters/playstyle are penalized for no good reason.

Also consider that vampires only get 1 damaging ability. All of your AOE, CC, utility, etc. still must come from non-vamp abilities which, at max rank, will cost 20% more to cast.

That level of penalty is so out of line with the reward as to be nigh unplayable.

This system needs SERIOUS readjustment.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we ask the devs to reconsider this in light of the overwhelmingly negative impact this will have on players who just want to be vamp for solo and rank down for group content (the majority)? Particularly since WW can choose to not slot the ultimate or shapeshift and suffer no penalty?

I suggest 0%, 5%, 10%, 15% as a simple fix, but even this may be too much considering vampire gets no AOE (as WW does) and only 1 vampire damage skill, still needing all your AOE, CC, and utility to come from non-vampire abilities which at even a lower 15% cost increase will quickly become unplayable in veteran dungeon and trial settings, in terms of sustain.

I feel the fire damage and health regen debuffs are more than enough to counteract the minimal positives you gain. Consider the negatives of being a werewolf (poison vulnerability only?) and I feel that we are trying too hard to add too many negatives to counterbalance positives which simply are not actually there in the level that we assume, at least in terms of normal play.

Given the fact that they pointed out that APM is a thing %cost increases are effecting high end players the most. Reason why they would want such mechanic is totally unkown. Since I would suggest they would embrace players to progress and improve in the game they've developed. Also as a new player you should have something to look up to.

This in combination with them previously i'm talking years ago now nerfing %based cost reduction from CP's where you could access about 10% cost reduc, and this was considered BROKEN AS ***. Which it was, does not rhyme with a 20% passive cost increase.

TheShadowScout

Papachico wrote: »

Vampire 20% Cost Increase Non Vamp Abilities

...its almost like the new vampirism was some sort of unholy curse, huh?

Yeah, well, I like that one. Yes, it does make playing as vamp more annoying... but I happen to think that is as it should be.

And yes, it may force vampires to be more vampy in their skill setup (incliging the courting criminal acts) instead of enjoying everything other classes have with vampyness passives as cherry on top... that I approve of as well.

And finally...

Ardan147 wrote: »

I guess that means a number of my vampire toons are going to stop being vampires.

...that.

Everyones choice if they want to put up with the cost of being a vampire, at least with this all the complaints about "only taking vamp for the benefits" will be on quickly melting ice I reckon.

Also... everyone who is vexed about this... use those feelings!

ShadowHvo

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Also... everyone who is vexed about this... use those feelings!

[snip] Isn't the T-pose good enough?

Anyone who thinks this is a legitimately healthy approach to balance out the vampire is frankly fooling themselves. This will limit build variety severely, and outright force the vampire into using 5 sub-par spells.

That is not to mention the mere fact that the penalty makes 0% sense in both lore and gameplay function of the vampire. They're master mages, rogues and warriors, their vampirism heightens their abilities - not lessens them as this new iteration does.

The penalty should be changed to something far more suitable and fitting, that doesn't outright ruin it. Be it healing reduced from non-vampire abilities or that other nice suggestion to add the increased regular ability cost PER Vampire ability slotted.

[edited for baiting]

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

What is really terrible about this design change is that it punishes vampire players in a way WW players do not get punished.

WW can choose not to slot the ultimate or not transform, and get NO PENALTY for that.

With the new vampire, even at the lowest rank, with none of the beneficial passives active, you STILL get a 5% cost increase to all your skills. There is no option to rank down for group content without suffering penalties for no benefit!

There is simply no reason that rank 1 should penalize you when WW does not. This disproportionately harms one specific group of players with no benefit. They should make the skill cost increase 0% at rank 1 to be fair/playable.

Otherwise this vampire overhaul will end up being a real demoralizing disappointment that makes people want to engage with the game less as their favorite characters/playstyle are penalized for no good reason.

Also consider that vampires only get 1 damaging ability. All of your AOE, CC, utility, etc. still must come from non-vamp abilities which, at max rank, will cost 20% more to cast.

That level of penalty is so out of line with the reward as to be nigh unplayable.

This system needs SERIOUS readjustment.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we ask the devs to reconsider this in light of the overwhelmingly negative impact this will have on players who just want to be vamp for solo and rank down for group content (the majority)? Particularly since WW can choose to not slot the ultimate or shapeshift and suffer no penalty?

I suggest 0%, 5%, 10%, 15% as a simple fix, but even this may be too much considering vampire gets no AOE (as WW does) and only 1 vampire damage skill, still needing all your AOE, CC, and utility to come from non-vampire abilities which at even a lower 15% cost increase will quickly become unplayable in veteran dungeon and trial settings, in terms of sustain.

I feel the fire damage and health regen debuffs are more than enough to counteract the minimal positives you gain. Consider the negatives of being a werewolf (poison vulnerability only?) and I feel that we are trying too hard to add too many negatives to counterbalance positives which simply are not actually there in the level that we assume, at least in terms of normal play.

I want to echo this sentiment. While I am fine with a stage 1 vampire having some drawbacks for the ability to have access to another skill line, its too significant right now. The fire weakness and health regen penalty always made sense, so keep that - but the increased cost to non vampire abilities is just nonsense that shouldn't exist, at least at stage 1.

emilyhyoyeon

I also agree with others mentioning that vampire is punished in a way werewolf is not. WhyMustItBe explained it really nicely.

One of my main characters is a vampire for rp reasons, so I'd really hate such a severe and not thematically sensible punishment for staying even at stage one.

santhoranb16_ESO

You get no benefit of werewolf if you dont slot, so and if you slot and use, you lose control over all abilities. Vamp can chose what to slot AND mix with abilities, WW can not. Vamp gets a wider variety choice and has to make a payment, WW gets locked into Werewolf and nothing else which is a far harder penalty. And if you slot not the Werewolf-ult you could clean yourself too of it, as you get no benefit then anyway- same is open for vamp to get cured.

Alucardo

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I also agree with others mentioning that vampire is punished in a way werewolf is not. WhyMustItBe explained it really nicely.

One of my main characters is a vampire for rp reasons, so I'd really hate such a severe and not thematically sensible punishment for staying even at stage one.

Werewolf gets NO benefits when they are not transformed - they are simply human. Vampires get their perks 24/7. When a werewolf does transform they are limited to only 5 set abilities. I hardly think it's fair to compare the two, and it makes literally zero sense.

emilyhyoyeon

Alucardo wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I also agree with others mentioning that vampire is punished in a way werewolf is not. WhyMustItBe explained it really nicely.

One of my main characters is a vampire for rp reasons, so I'd really hate such a severe and not thematically sensible punishment for staying even at stage one.

Werewolf gets NO benefits when they are not transformed - they are simply human. Vampires get their perks 24/7. When a werewolf does transform they are limited to only 5 set abilities. I hardly think it's fair to compare the two, and it makes literally zero sense.

Vampires should and do (without the ability cost addition) have punishments, but increased nonvamp ability costs doesn't make any sense, unlike increased fire damage and conflict with interacting with vendors

Vevvev

You know... we could just throw away the cost reduction thing entirely and crank the flame damage up to 11. Risk vs Reward, right?

TheShadowScout

ShadowHvo wrote: »

That is not to mention the mere fact that the penalty makes 0% sense in both lore and...

Actually I thought it made quite a bit of sense lorewise, if one assumes that the class spells were made with mortal people (or mortal-ish in case of our vestige) in mind, and vampirism does change a person somewhat... including perhaps the way mana flows through them, thus resulting in a bit of added difficulty in using mortal magics... (personally I would have adjusted it tho, like... 30% for DK, templar & warden class skills, but only 10% for necromancer, NB & sorceror since those would seem a bit more "attuned" to vampires I reckon... with vampirism being a -deadric- condition, that deals with -blood- and -death- magics)

Although, it really would have made a lot more sense to just deny them food buffs. Lorewise too, I mean, duh, vampire?

But I guess this too might get adjusted if in practice it proves to be having more or less then the intended effect yes?
Despite everything, I -do- like it that these changes would make vampire less viable for those who just stack it for the effects, and more something for those who really -mean- it!

Paradisius

Vevvev wrote: »

You know... we could just throw away the cost reduction thing entirely and crank the flame damage up to 11. Risk vs Reward, right?

I've actually been thinking about about that internally, would something such as 50% flame damage at stage 4 be enough of a detriment? I can't really find out since to my knowledge there's no way to test such a thing, but it would be a noticeable detriment if the flame damage was too high to mitigate

Vevvev

Paradisius wrote: »

I've actually been thinking about about that internally, would something such as 50% flame damage at stage 4 be enough of a detriment? I can't really find out since to my knowledge there's no way to test such a thing, but it would be a noticeable detriment if the flame damage was too high to mitigate

Vampires already on live I turn into smores with my MagDK using only a couple of flame damage abilities. At stage 1 the flame damage is at 0% but stage 2 is 15%, stage 3 is 20%, and stage 4 is 25%.

On the PTS the flame damage is actually going to be a bit lower capping out at 20% at stage 4. Starts off with stage 1 being 5% and incrementing every 5%. If they had it start at 10% and increase up to 40% I think that'd be a very noticeable jump in flame damage. Imagine getting hit by a 20k flame damage ultimate at stage 4.... ouch....

Paradisius

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampires already on live I turn into smores with my MagDK using only a couple of flame damage abilities. At stage 1 the flame damage is at 0% but stage 2 is 15%, stage 3 is 20%, and stage 4 is 25%.

On the PTS the flame damage is actually going to be a bit lower capping out at 20% at stage 4. Starts off with stage 1 being 5% and incrementing every 5%. If they had it start at 10% and increase up to 40% I think that'd be a very noticeable jump in flame damage. Imagine getting hit by a 20k flame damage ultimate at stage 4.... ouch....

That might be so, however such an increase in flame damage should be big enough to not be a detriment you can ignore, so it fills that purpose and does it thematically, I wonder if the devs considered this

Vevvev

Paradisius wrote: »

That might be so, however such an increase in flame damage should be big enough to not be a detriment you can ignore, so it fills that purpose and does it thematically, I wonder if the devs considered this

They probably did which is why they tweaked the flame damage values, but they decided to make the value less instead of more for.... some reason. Werewolf is still sitting at 25% extra poison damage with no other debuffs, and vampire was at the same level with an added health regeneration debuff. People got around the flame damage increase by wearing certain sets and using certain CP buffs. If the devs really wanted to make people think twice about increasing their stage that number really should have gone up, not down. All increasing non-vampire costs does is ruin build diversity, and nobody likes being pigeonholed into a certain play style.

LeGrandeShekel

Anyone else finding that they spend more time gearing up, testing and tweaking characters than they do actually playing them?

This game used to be fun, it's too much of a chore now with the way that they wreck something every patch. Every time a patch gets released which change stats and skills, its an implied admission by ZOS that what they released in the first place wasn't good enough. How many times can a company get it wrong? Just make your game and unless something is genuinely overpowered (hint: vampires are not, nightblades weren't) stick to your guns.

Here's my serious constructive suggestion though, if ZOS is committed to changing something and wants to make it harder to play vampire: don't increase vampire costs, but instead bring back the old Camouflaged Hunter skill. It used to be that if you activated it, you had a 15% chance of doing an extra 10k damage or so to undead for the 10 seconds or so it was active (4% chance for everything else). People didn't really run it in Cyrodiil, but it was very common in the imperial city. It was fun running that skill because all vampires were highlighted in regular play and you felt like a hunter because you knew who to aim for and they'd go running as soon as they saw those blades flash blue.

LeHarrt91

I dont like the cost Increase of non vamp skills is too high. I understand that vamp isnt limited to 1 bar and just Vamp skills but WW has also be given access to a lot of Major Buffs/ Debuffs and just like vamp they have access to Race/ Class and Armor Passives. And with WW you can go back to being Human and have no worries what so ever, whereas Vamp is permanent.

Dagoth_Rac

Non-vamp skills are increased 20%. Vamp skills are reduced 40%. Assuming similar base costs, you can go with 1/3rd vamp skills and 2/3rds non-vamp skills and break even. If your vamp skills have been reduced by 2400, you do not need 1200 regen to sustain your non-vamp skills.

If your goal is to be a vamp but never use vamp skills, that will no longer work. ZOS clearly have designed Stage 4 Vamp as something you need to play as a vampire, not using vampire as a glorified mundus stone.

Glurin

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Anyone else finding that they spend more time gearing up, testing and tweaking characters than they do actually playing them?

This game used to be fun, it's too much of a chore now with the way that they wreck something every patch. Every time a patch gets released which change stats and skills, its an implied admission by ZOS that what they released in the first place wasn't good enough. How many times can a company get it wrong? Just make your game and unless something is genuinely overpowered (hint: vampires are not, nightblades weren't) stick to your guns.

Just because something changes doesn't mean it was wrong. People used to have landline phones. Now we all have cell phones. Doesn't mean landline phones were necessarily wrong. Just that cell phones were better or more popular.

VocalThought

This is crazy! 1) People are getting mad about not being a Vampire, 2) People are comparing Vampires to Werewolves, 3) People are Outrange at the cost of being a stage 4 Vampire while using Class Skills... lol. Dude you're a Vampire! What did you think? Werewolves are werewolves some of the time. You are always a Vampire. BTW, isn't there an Ultimate where you go be a stage 5 Vampire with no penalties, and can't you run off and turn invisible.... just keep doing that.

LeGrandeShekel

Glurin wrote: »

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Anyone else finding that they spend more time gearing up, testing and tweaking characters than they do actually playing them?

This game used to be fun, it's too much of a chore now with the way that they wreck something every patch. Every time a patch gets released which change stats and skills, its an implied admission by ZOS that what they released in the first place wasn't good enough. How many times can a company get it wrong? Just make your game and unless something is genuinely overpowered (hint: vampires are not, nightblades weren't) stick to your guns.

Just because something changes doesn't mean it was wrong. People used to have landline phones. Now we all have cell phones. Doesn't mean landline phones were necessarily wrong. Just that cell phones were better or more popular.

However, that analogy doesn't stack up, you're not comparing apples with apples. ZOS are going back and revising something that already exists, not releasing something new that supersedes the old. When Sony release the PS5, it's not going to make my PS4 any worse, and I don't lose anything by choosing to stay put, it's just the offer of a better alternative. When ZOS release their updates, it makes what I already have worse and forces me to put effort in that I don't have time for. I used to, back in 2015 when I had a few months off and played every day. Now I've only got a couple of hours in the week, and that should be time spent enjoying myself.

Glurin

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Anyone else finding that they spend more time gearing up, testing and tweaking characters than they do actually playing them?

This game used to be fun, it's too much of a chore now with the way that they wreck something every patch. Every time a patch gets released which change stats and skills, its an implied admission by ZOS that what they released in the first place wasn't good enough. How many times can a company get it wrong? Just make your game and unless something is genuinely overpowered (hint: vampires are not, nightblades weren't) stick to your guns.

Just because something changes doesn't mean it was wrong. People used to have landline phones. Now we all have cell phones. Doesn't mean landline phones were necessarily wrong. Just that cell phones were better or more popular.

However, that analogy doesn't stack up, you're not comparing apples with apples. ZOS are going back and revising something that already exists, not releasing something new that supersedes the old. When Sony release the PS5, it's not going to make my PS4 any worse, and I don't lose anything by choosing to stay put, it's just the offer of a better alternative. When ZOS release their updates, it makes what I already have worse and forces me to put effort in that I don't have time for. I used to, back in 2015 when I had a few months off and played every day. Now I've only got a couple of hours in the week, and that should be time spent enjoying myself.

Not worse. Obsolete. Part of what makes MMOs so good is the fact that they do change. Doesn't mean that what was there before was wrong. Just that now it's different, hopefully for the better in the grander scheme. You can't honestly expect an MMO to remain completely stagnate after launch day after all. Not a successful one anyway.

If you want a game that doesn't change, you're pretty much going to have to look at single player titles older than a few years.

Vevvev

VocalThought wrote: »

This is crazy! 1) People are getting mad about not being a Vampire, 2) People are comparing Vampires to Werewolves, 3) People are Outrange at the cost of being a stage 4 Vampire while using Class Skills... lol. Dude you're a Vampire! What did you think? Werewolves are werewolves some of the time. You are always a Vampire. BTW, isn't there an Ultimate where you go be a stage 5 Vampire with no penalties, and can't you run off and turn invisible.... just keep doing that.

We're already planning on doing that and hating the prospect of it. Some of us are even planning on not feeding at all and using that ultimate to get all the benefits with very little drawbacks in-between ult charges. I have no issue with severe penalties for stage 4 vampires but I always imagined it in the lore friendly form of lots of flame damage and/or healing debuffs.

Non-vampiric cost increases pigeonhole players into a single play style instead of what vampires are known for and that's everything. Rogues, wizards, warriors, so and and so forth. The current vampire skill line on the PTS isn't good enough to warrant cutting out using the 100's of other abilities in this game. Also that cost increase effects ultimates which isn't very good for several classes (if not all of them). If you want an example the 5% cost increase of New Moon Acolyte limits the amount of players that choose to pick it, and a 20% increase from the vampire skill line at stage 4 would be crippling in comparison. Nobody in their right mind would go to stage 4 since the passive it unlocks isn't even worth it.

Nova Sky

Hey, ZOS. You do have tools other than sledgehammers and jackhammers in the programming toolbox of yours, right?

LeGrandeShekel

Glurin wrote: »

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

LeGrandeShekel wrote: »

Anyone else finding that they spend more time gearing up, testing and tweaking characters than they do actually playing them?

This game used to be fun, it's too much of a chore now with the way that they wreck something every patch. Every time a patch gets released which change stats and skills, its an implied admission by ZOS that what they released in the first place wasn't good enough. How many times can a company get it wrong? Just make your game and unless something is genuinely overpowered (hint: vampires are not, nightblades weren't) stick to your guns.

Just because something changes doesn't mean it was wrong. People used to have landline phones. Now we all have cell phones. Doesn't mean landline phones were necessarily wrong. Just that cell phones were better or more popular.

However, that analogy doesn't stack up, you're not comparing apples with apples. ZOS are going back and revising something that already exists, not releasing something new that supersedes the old. When Sony release the PS5, it's not going to make my PS4 any worse, and I don't lose anything by choosing to stay put, it's just the offer of a better alternative. When ZOS release their updates, it makes what I already have worse and forces me to put effort in that I don't have time for. I used to, back in 2015 when I had a few months off and played every day. Now I've only got a couple of hours in the week, and that should be time spent enjoying myself.

Not worse. Obsolete. Part of what makes MMOs so good is the fact that they do change. Doesn't mean that what was there before was wrong. Just that now it's different, hopefully for the better in the grander scheme. You can't honestly expect an MMO to remain completely stagnate after launch day after all. Not a successful one anyway.

If you want a game that doesn't change, you're pretty much going to have to look at single player titles older than a few years.

That's fair, but I'm not asking for one that's stagnant, just one that doesn't require quite the level of character overhauling with the level of regularity that ESO does. Re-gearing your character can take hours and hours, and if you've got a whole heap of them (I have 11) then there's only so many times change of this magnitude can be thrust upon you before you chuck in the towel.

And no, I didn't mean obsolete, I meant worse. I mean they take my perfectly good build and nerf enough elements of it that it's no longer good, irrespective of what potentially better things may have just been released.

Change is good, but there's a limit to what I can take before I move on. For the past 2-3 years now I've been in this cycle of playing for a couple of months, then an update comes out that messes something up and I stop for 6 months, before coming back and having it happen again. Before that I was playing daily. I came back last week after not playing since September and I'm not sure I'll be sticking around, the amount of changes have run my enthusiasm to adapt into the ground.

I get that what they do might your cup of tea, but I know my (previously super active but now dead) PVP guild is made up almost entirely of people that share my view and wish we could have the old times back.

Noxavian

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

What is really terrible about this design change is that it punishes vampire players in a way WW players do not get punished.

WW can choose not to slot the ultimate or not transform, and get NO PENALTY for that.

With the new vampire, even at the lowest rank, with none of the beneficial passives active, you STILL get a 5% cost increase to all your skills. There is no option to rank down for group content without suffering penalties for no benefit!

There is simply no reason that rank 1 should penalize you when WW does not. This disproportionately harms one specific group of players with no benefit. They should make the skill cost increase 0% at rank 1 to be fair/playable.

Otherwise this vampire overhaul will end up being a real demoralizing disappointment that makes people want to engage with the game less as their favorite characters/playstyle are penalized for no good reason.

Also consider that vampires only get 1 damaging ability. All of your AOE, CC, utility, etc. still must come from non-vamp abilities which, at max rank, will cost 20% more to cast.

That level of penalty is so out of line with the reward as to be nigh unplayable.

This system needs SERIOUS readjustment.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we ask the devs to reconsider this in light of the overwhelmingly negative impact this will have on players who just want to be vamp for solo and rank down for group content (the majority)? Particularly since WW can choose to not slot the ultimate or shapeshift and suffer no penalty?

I suggest 0%, 5%, 10%, 15% as a simple fix, but even this may be too much considering vampire gets no AOE (as WW does) and only 1 vampire damage skill, still needing all your AOE, CC, and utility to come from non-vampire abilities which at even a lower 15% cost increase will quickly become unplayable in veteran dungeon and trial settings, in terms of sustain.

I feel the fire damage and health regen debuffs are more than enough to counteract the minimal positives you gain. Consider the negatives of being a werewolf (poison vulnerability only?) and I feel that we are trying too hard to add too many negatives to counterbalance positives which simply are not actually there in the level that we assume, at least in terms of normal play.

Still utterly baffled that vamps STILL HAVE 1 damaging skill. How on earth did they add in 4 more abilities that none of which do proper damage? We're still stuck with 1 single target damage spell!

olsborg

In the name of lowering the ceiling and closing the gap between high and low APM players, sad but true.
Faso sais it well in this clip.
https://clips.twitch.tv/RepleteToughJayGrammarKing

Thevampirenight

I strongly suspect its to prevent players from going all vampire like they do.
Because people meta chase and will use the new abilties in the skill line and to balance out the invisibility that is going to be so useful in Cyrodiil. I think its to be a drawback for the very useful passives and skills that will be coming with the new Revamped Skill Line.
Though I really do think its silly and garbage to have it that extreme. Its also silly their non abilties cost more then their vampire ones.

Thevampirenight

Vevvev wrote: »

Paradisius wrote: »

I've actually been thinking about about that internally, would something such as 50% flame damage at stage 4 be enough of a detriment? I can't really find out since to my knowledge there's no way to test such a thing, but it would be a noticeable detriment if the flame damage was too high to mitigate

Vampires already on live I turn into smores with my MagDK using only a couple of flame damage abilities. At stage 1 the flame damage is at 0% but stage 2 is 15%, stage 3 is 20%, and stage 4 is 25%.

On the PTS the flame damage is actually going to be a bit lower capping out at 20% at stage 4. Starts off with stage 1 being 5% and incrementing every 5%. If they had it start at 10% and increase up to 40% I think that'd be a very noticeable jump in flame damage. Imagine getting hit by a 20k flame damage ultimate at stage 4.... ouch....

I think raising the flame damage might be better then actually adding in the ability cost weakness and vampires lorewise are weak to flames and that is a weakness. It should be cranked up to 50% with removal of the Ability cost.