Nerf Radiant Regeneration stacking (hots in general)!

Shanan

You are able to stack 20x Radiant Regenerations in a ballgroup?
Nerf radiant regeneration so everyone is able to receive just one layer/stack of radiant regeneration.

pro:
+ less calculations serverside (improving performance drastically)
+ ball groups arent invincible anymore => nerf => indirect buff for solo/smallers

Goregrinder

Healing is getting nerfed accross the board next patch, I just hope it's enough of a nerf.

Fawn4287

Nerf off healing by 50% instead of healing received

leepalmer95

Goregrinder wrote: »

Healing is getting nerfed accross the board next patch, I just hope it's enough of a nerf.

Its not going to effect zergs/ ball groups at all and everyone already knows this apart from zos.

It's only gonna mess up solo/ small scalers.

Q_Q

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Healing is getting nerfed accross the board next patch, I just hope it's enough of a nerf.

Its not going to effect zergs/ ball groups at all and everyone already knows this apart from zos.

It's only gonna mess up solo/ small scalers.

Yeah “hope it’s enough”

They mean “hope I can kill that solo player that 1vx my group”

sproattt

Hahaha it's going to be worse.

(5 items) Casting abilities that leave an effect on the ground will create a circle of healing frost for 10 seconds. You and your allies restore 2358 Health every 1 second while inside the circle. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

When you stick an overhealing OP stackable heal on the floor you get more, and i bet this stack's with others using this set.

Iskiab

sproattt wrote: »

Hahaha it's going to be worse.

(5 items) Casting abilities that leave an effect on the ground will create a circle of healing frost for 10 seconds. You and your allies restore 2358 Health every 1 second while inside the circle. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

When you stick an overhealing OP stackable heal on the floor you get more, and i bet this stack's with others using this set.

Set looks terrible. Halve that amount because of battlespirit and it’s 1100 x 6 at best. A healer in a proper spec will get more from max stats.

sproattt

I hope so.

Daffen

The new winter's respite set is going to be interesting on my permablocking tank in pvp. I have some interesting set combinations that will work wonders for my build.

zDan

It's not just this skill that's the problem. It's stacking multiple HOT's in general. It should be capped to 1 outside source of healing to prevent ballgroups from stacking multiple heals and becoming unkillable. It also puts a strain on the server when this happens, like Fengrush said, you really feel the lag start to happen when the big groups get on and start spamming multiple sources of healing on eachother.

Shanan

yeah you‘re right zDan. radiant regeneration was just one example.
they should only allow one stack/instance per heal on each character. all hots shouldnt stack in each other.
would solve a lot problems ...

pieratsos

Iskiab wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Hahaha it's going to be worse.

(5 items) Casting abilities that leave an effect on the ground will create a circle of healing frost for 10 seconds. You and your allies restore 2358 Health every 1 second while inside the circle. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

When you stick an overhealing OP stackable heal on the floor you get more, and i bet this stack's with others using this set.

Set looks terrible. Halve that amount because of battlespirit and it’s 1100 x 6 at best. A healer in a proper spec will get more from max stats.

Thats not how healing works mate. First of all ur numbers are off. With various buffs you can prety much double the healing output so 1.1k is actually the worst case not the best case and even then 1.1k every second is actually far from terrible. It only looks terrible when you look at it in a vacuum. And really half of the healing in the game looks terrible when you look at it like that. But thats not even the point cause u essentially cant see the forest for the trees. When you start stacking all those "terrible" heals suddenly ur healing isnt so terrible cause you get so much god damn healing to the point where ur hp bar barely moves. The only thing that holds that set back is the fact that its not mobile. Not that its healing output isnt good.

Giljabrar

Echoing vigor Stam groups are arguably better in regards to healing, only having to cast once to effect all members of the group.

evoniee

Giljabrar wrote: »

Echoing vigor Stam groups are arguably better in regards to healing, only having to cast once to effect all members of the group.

well in reality there is no stamina group with vigor stacking.

JinxxND

This post, this is the number one reason the game is performing so bad and while healing is considered over tuned you should limit outside healing to 2-3 ppl TOPS instead of making drastic changes to everything else which will create further issues.

DjinnAeternam

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

Giljabrar

evoniee wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Echoing vigor Stam groups are arguably better in regards to healing, only having to cast once to effect all members of the group.

well in reality there is no stamina group with vigor stacking.

Umm, Øurøbørøs, Apae Squad, Cutest Boys to name a few lol

Shanan

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

Giljabrar

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

jeraldob16_ESO

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

Crash427

Haven't done it since midyear mayhem but our ballgroup had a few chances to fight other ballgroups in low pop campaigns and there was relatively little lag. If the problem was as simple as ballgroups stacking HOTs then the lag should have followed us there.

DjinnAeternam

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

jeraldob16_ESO

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

[Snip]... no one said we should avoid using skills. Shanan just brought in a conclusion about lags and ball groups. And it makes abs. sense what he was referring to.

[Edited for bait]

Shanan

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

Yes you are absolutely right. performance shouldn't dictate, mechanics should. but the engine/server seems limited and zos doesn't care about improving server capacity or improve/extend engine. so u have to go the other way round.

example:

- random zerg vs random zerg (100v100)
- we assume standard normal distribution => med skilled players
- we assume medium skilled players maybe use 1 skill every 2 seconds (cast, move, look around, check inventory)
- 10% use radiant regeneration (ticks every 2secs)

200[players] * 1/2[1 skill every 2 seconds] = 100 calculations per second
+ radiant regeneration: 200 * 0,1 * 3[targets if casted once] = 60 targets * 1/2 (1 tick every 2 secs) = 30 calcs
= 130 calculations per second

now add a ballgroup to the fight
- 20 people
- highskilled people
- 1 skill per second
- 40% use radiant regeneration

20[players] *1[1 skill every 1 second] = 20 calculations per second
+ radiant regeneration: 20 * 0,4 = 8 players = 8 possible stacks of radiant regeneration => 8 stacks on each target * 20 ppl = 160 * 1/2 (1 tick every 2 secs) = 80
= 20 + 80 = 100 calculations per second

so a ballgroup of 20 men produces 76,92% the calculations of a 100v100 zerg. now add a second/third ballgroup and it's mostly like 300v300 on one spot. u know what i mean? Yes this model is very very very simplified. it's just supposed to show the trend. As u said buffs, debuffs, sets..etc. arent incluced. yes ballgroups shouldn't be limited. they play very efficient but it kills the fun. buff/hot stacking in general is a problem. echoing vigor must be even worse.

if you nerf radiant regeneration to allow just one stack on each player:

- zerg = untouched = still 130 calculations per second

ballgroup
20[players] *1[1 skill every 1 second] = 20 calculations per second
1 stacks on each target * 20 ppl = 20 targets * 1/2 (1 tick every 2 secs) = 10
= 30

now ballgroups produces 23,07% the calculations of a 100v100 zerg. even the heal over time drops from 8k every 2 second to 1k every 2 secs. so they aren't invincible anymore. zos should limit every buff/hot to one stack. debuff/dots shouldnt be limited.

Atherakhia

Server performance shouldn't even be coming into the equation when discussing balance. The fact this game can't handle 10 people on a screen casting abilities is not making those abilities too powerful. It's ZOS and their amateur developers. Focus the discussion on how the heals are the problem. Not the lag.

pieratsos

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

Apples and oranges. He didn't say that the issue is using ur skills. He said that the effects of skills indifinitely stacking is the issue.

Crash427

pieratsos wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

Apples and oranges. He didn't say that the issue is using ur skills. He said that the effects of skills indifinitely stacking is the issue.

He also said debuffs and dots shouldn't be limited. When we're moving thru a zerg I can easily have 10 on me, and I'm just one person in our group. How are those calculations not the problem but healing is?

Shanan

Crash427 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

Apples and oranges. He didn't say that the issue is using ur skills. He said that the effects of skills indifinitely stacking is the issue.

He also said debuffs and dots shouldn't be limited. When we're moving thru a zerg I can easily have 10 on me, and I'm just one person in our group. How are those calculations not the problem but healing is?

Those calculations are a problem aswell - sure thing. But you have to start somewhere and i think u cant cut a groups damage because then u dont need to run in a group. but stacking hots u ll receive stupid amounts of passive healing without any effort. allowing just one layer of each heal over time makes groups more vulnerable so they have to play smarter and if they get in trouble they need to heal actively and play defensively and cant run like an invincible ball on steroids.

Nocturnalan

Just here to say.. remove Regen stacking. Thanks.

DjinnAeternam

Shanan wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

jeraldob16_ESO wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Shanan wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

Yea the game performs this bad because of heals... And before this tank/heal meta what was it? DoTs? Maybe too much APMs?

Also taking quotes from Fengrush about big groups causing the lag because of heals is at least ironic.

And btw, on PC-EU there is at least 1 coordinated group stacking Echoing Vigors, if you pvp you know who they are.

What about CC immunity not working? what about 5s cc break from fears or to use skills? What about streak bug? slow bug? resources bug? Horrendous positional desyncs? Is that all from heals also?

Yes, groups are stacking heals, if ZoS changes mechanics, good groups will adapt and move forward, and some will continue QQ about something else on forums..

i dont care about fengrush. it's my personal experience that every time a ballgroup appears it starts lagging as hell. even random zergs do not produce that much lag. it's always "playable" against zergs and as soon as it starts lagging, 30sec later i can see a ball group appearing.
the question is - why is it playable against random zergs and why is it absolutely unplayable against ballgroups? so i assume ballgroups produce massive lag. ballgroups exclusively use aoe+hots+aoe ultis. So one reason must be stacking hots (radiant regeneration/echoing vigor etc.). fix heal stacking => fix lag => ballgroups more vulnerable => everyone is happy

You make a lot of assumptions without any evidence.

Its an obv. thing....how in the hell do you need an evidence about it? Its just a fact. It starts lagging based on numerous calculations each millisecond which can only be tracked by developer or trough debugging.

So the answer is stop using skills then.

Players can also do that if they don't even log into game. Problem solved.

Arguing that the source of lag is a lot of calculations going on is asking players to not use skills, or don't group, or even just don't fight big battles.

Also heals are just a fraction of the calculations, what about buffs? debuffs? damage skills? Ranged skills? Should players avoid using them "because of bad performance"?

The answer again seems to be stop using skills then, or just logout/leave.

The performance shouldn't dictate how players can play, the mechanics should. Game is broken, stop blaming coordinated groups for it, because when there is a side that is faction stacking (60+ mindless zergs) the lag is there for everyone aswell.
What's the problem there? too much self-heals?

Apples and oranges. He didn't say that the issue is using ur skills. He said that the effects of skills indifinitely stacking is the issue.

He also said debuffs and dots shouldn't be limited. When we're moving thru a zerg I can easily have 10 on me, and I'm just one person in our group. How are those calculations not the problem but healing is?

Those calculations are a problem aswell - sure thing. But you have to start somewhere and i think u cant cut a groups damage because then u dont need to run in a group. but stacking hots u ll receive stupid amounts of passive healing without any effort. allowing just one layer of each heal over time makes groups more vulnerable so they have to play smarter and if they get in trouble they need to heal actively and play defensively and cant run like an invincible ball on steroids.

Well its not without any effort, try to have 100% uptime on Echoing Vigor or Rad Regen in 2h+ time on Cyrodiil, and use your skills to damage/buff etc.

I can understand to a point the nerf to heals in general, but saying that it is the cause of lag is simply ridiculous.

Do you know that one thing that could cause massive calculations is projectiles? they are to be seen for so many players in a determined area because they move for a long distance (like Javelin from templar)?
Devs already tweaked that a bit (reduced area calculation in server side), the solution wasn't disabling the skill, but adjust it on game code.

Sieges hitting high number of players also require lot of calculations from server, should sieges be "nerfed"?
What about AOE skill max target numbers, should they be nerfed to improve performance?

And what about the 1skill that desyncs everyone? (because its not lag you complaining its desyncronization from server)
Why does sniping still desyncs people? Its just 1 skill and its damage. Why not start where the problem is? Code!
Then go for balancing the game, after it WORKS.

Big random zergs lag everything and everyone aswell, should people now only smallscale on Cyrodiil because of it? Or just refrain from using skills? Better yet, do you see any coordinated group adverting that zerging shouldn't be allowed because it lags them?

AmoralOne

This topic got derailed to lag issues..

Yes remove stacking of HoT's