Whoever came up with the new Vamp skills

LinearParadox

ZOS: "Clever Alchemist is too strong and abusable for gankers. An extra 450 weapon/spell damage is crazy on already powerful gank builds! Make sure it can't work out of combat!"

Also ZOS: Lets give players a 900 Weapon/Spell damage steroid usable outside of combat, on the same skill line that buffs stealth like 3 different ways and offers access to invisibility.

Me:

Honestly, I like most of the stuff added for Vamp this patch, or at least the ideas behind it. Some things need tuning for sure, but it's mostly alright.
This, however, I have no idea how it made it through. 600 W/S damage from Blood Frenzy (Or even more from the morph!) and 300 W/S damage from the Strike from the Shadows passive??? Really???

Paradisius

Well, take into account everything about the skillline and skill. Vamps have an inherent non vampire ability cost, and that skill you're talking about costs health per second, up to about 2k health/s at max stacks of the morph, all while not being able to be healed by other players. Its a high reward that comes at high risk, if you fail to recast a self heal you'll be dead before you know it.

OmniDo

Pfff...Nightblades and Templars won't even feel that burn. Already tested it. Just wear Hiti's with your other 5pc and monster set of choice, and you'll be fine.

wheem_ESO

Paradisius wrote: »

Well, take into account everything about the skillline and skill. Vamps have an inherent non vampire ability cost, and that skill you're talking about costs health per second, up to about 2k health/s at max stacks of the morph, all while not being able to be healed by other players. Its a high reward that comes at high risk, if you fail to recast a self heal you'll be dead before you know it.

I believe the OP is mostly referring to gankers, who aren't typically relying on heals from other players in order to survive, and don't need to have the health drain toggled on for more than a couple seconds at a time. Combine this spell damage with the current PTS iteration of the Stuhn's Favor set and there's likely to be a ton of 1-shotting. Which is always oodles of fun.

Alucardo

Paradisius wrote: »

Well, take into account everything about the skillline and skill. Vamps have an inherent non vampire ability cost, and that skill you're talking about costs health per second, up to about 2k health/s at max stacks of the morph, all while not being able to be healed by other players. Its a high reward that comes at high risk, if you fail to recast a self heal you'll be dead before you know it.

And you better hope that heal from BF crits in PvP, because it's not going to patch you up much. Outside of suicide bombers, I can't see anybody utilising this skill if I'm honest. I tried it out yesterday, and as a Breton in 5 light, my ward cost OVER 5k magicka. The vamp heals in PvP also do not heal for that much. It just seems pointless.

Paradisius

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I believe the OP is mostly referring to gankers, who aren't typically relying on heals from other players in order to survive, and don't need to have the health drain toggled on for more than a couple seconds at a time. Combine this spell damage with the current PTS iteration of the Stuhn's Favor set and there's likely to be a ton of 1-shotting. Which is always oodles of fun.

I see, that does make this a powerful combo for that type of play then. I do wonder how thatll work in practice, I guess any vampire nerfs we get in the future would answer that for me

wheem_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

Paradisius wrote: »

Well, take into account everything about the skillline and skill. Vamps have an inherent non vampire ability cost, and that skill you're talking about costs health per second, up to about 2k health/s at max stacks of the morph, all while not being able to be healed by other players. Its a high reward that comes at high risk, if you fail to recast a self heal you'll be dead before you know it.

And you better hope that heal from BF crits in PvP, because it's not going to patch you up much. Outside of suicide bombers, I can't see anybody utilising this skill if I'm honest. I tried it out yesterday, and as a Breton in 5 light, my ward cost OVER 5k magicka. The vamp heals in PvP also do not heal for that much. It just seems pointless.

Things that cost health in PvP are, generally speaking, not worth it. At least in no-CP. But gankers/bombers are a different story. They aren't getting mixed up in a fight and having to worry about their health being drained from their own abilities while taking damage from other sources. They simply toggle it for a couple seconds while they dump a stupid amount of burst damage, then toggle it off and escape, or die trying.

I personally detest insta-killing in MMO PvP, and think that sort of thing should be left in first person shooters and whatnot. Simply learning to press a few keys in a certain sequence from stealth shouldn't allow someone to essentially 1-shot decent players in respectable builds. But the combination of Stuhn's Favor and extra spell/weapon damage from Vampire seems likely to make such nonsense become much more widespread, especially when factoring in the various defensive nerfs. It's one of several reasons that I'm fairly disappointed in this overhaul of Vampirism.

kaithuzar

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I personally detest insta-killing in MMO PvP, and think that sort of thing should be left in first person shooters and whatnot. Simply learning to press a few keys in a certain sequence from stealth shouldn't allow someone to essentially 1-shot decent players in respectable builds. But the combination of Stuhn's Favor and extra spell/weapon damage from Vampire seems likely to make such nonsense become much more widespread, especially when factoring in the various defensive nerfs. It's one of several reasons that I'm fairly disappointed in this overhaul of Vampirism.

Not you specifically, just saying,
“Re-rolling to the latest meta-class with the latest meta-build doesn’t mean your a decent player”. It more-so means your build is cheesy & you’re crutching on over tuned mechanics.

NB has been trash with trash damage for 2+ years now outside of a 1 trick pony gear dependent set. I don’t think this will all of a sudden pull us from the gutter making us 1 shot Gods, but we might be able to finally get someone to less than 50% before we melt.

wheem_ESO

kaithuzar wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I personally detest insta-killing in MMO PvP, and think that sort of thing should be left in first person shooters and whatnot. Simply learning to press a few keys in a certain sequence from stealth shouldn't allow someone to essentially 1-shot decent players in respectable builds. But the combination of Stuhn's Favor and extra spell/weapon damage from Vampire seems likely to make such nonsense become much more widespread, especially when factoring in the various defensive nerfs. It's one of several reasons that I'm fairly disappointed in this overhaul of Vampirism.

Not you specifically, just saying,
“Re-rolling to the latest meta-class with the latest meta-build doesn’t mean your a decent player”. It more-so means your build is cheesy & you’re crutching on over tuned mechanics.

NB has been trash with trash damage for 2+ years now outside of a 1 trick pony gear dependent set. I don’t think this will all of a sudden pull us from the gutter making us 1 shot Gods, but we might be able to finally get someone to less than 50% before we melt.

I know you said that wasn't directed at me specifically, but I'll just go ahead and mention that I played Magicka Warden as a main from Morrowind's Early Access up until Elsweyr's Early Access. At that point, I switched over to Magicka Necromancer (without the Harmony gimmick). I've played some other classes as alts at various points along the way, and the difference in power can be quite stark at times.

No class should be trash (which Magicka Necromancer very much has been since its release), and adding in the ability to 1-shot gank isn't a good solution to the problem(s) that Nightblades face.