If Player Feedback Is Split On Group Queue...

mav1234

Rich recently shared that player feedback is 'evenly split' on the Group Queue (see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521824/new-rich-lambert-interview). This suggests it is time to implement a group queue test. There are VERY few players that want only a solo queue. If that many people are directly advocating for group queue as an option, it suggests there are enough people to support that as a playstyle option, and a group queue in some form should be implemented. The method of doing so, I don't know, but the lack of a group queue option has driven many players out of BGs, and while solo queue has brought in some others, we can leverage both to improve the number of people playing BGs with the re-implementation of group queue. Cyrodil is not a good replacement for group combat - it is fun in its own right, but an insufficient replacement due to the nature of fights and the lag.

Please consider implementing a group queue option for Greymoor. it is the perfect time to do so - lots of new players will be joining and rejoining the game.

tmbrinks

mav1234 wrote: »

Rich recently shared that player feedback is 'evenly split' on the Group Queue (see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521824/new-rich-lambert-interview). This suggests it is time to implement a group queue test. There are VERY few players that want only a solo queue. If that many people are directly advocating for group queue as an option, it suggests there are enough people to support that as a playstyle option, and a group queue in some form should be implemented. The method of doing so, I don't know, but the lack of a group queue option has driven many players out of BGs, and while solo queue has brought in some others, we can leverage both to improve the number of people playing BGs with the re-implementation of group queue. Cyrodil is not a good replacement for group combat - it is fun in its own right, but an insufficient replacement due to the nature of fights and the lag.

Please consider implementing a group queue option for Greymoor. it is the perfect time to do so - lots of new players will be joining and rejoining the game.

uhm.. there was a thread in general earlier that showed a majority of players were playing more BGs BECAUSE it was Solo Queue. I have no clue where your "There are VERY few players that only want a solo queue" come from...

I agree that they should probably have both queues.. but the population is small enough that grouping times would be even longer than they already are... and given the choice of only one... I'd much rather than solo queue, then group queue.

Also, group queuing was a thing for like 2 YEARS for BGs... this is the first time their testing solo queues...

mav1234

tmbrinks wrote: »

uhm.. there was a thread in general earlier that showed a majority of players were playing more BGs BECAUSE it was Solo Queue. I have no clue where your "There are VERY few players that only want a solo queue" come from...

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too. I have been following dozens of threads on this and there have been a small handful of people saying "screw group queue, just go to Cyrodil" or whatever. There's no reason not to try it - after all, if queue times are slow, so what? they were slow before the change... larger groups would report 20-45 minute queues anyway. And if they did the rewards right, there would definitely be plenty of queues.

We have never had a group queue, actually. We had a queue that allowed any sort of queue, which would sometimes pair solos with groups. This actually drove many groups OUT of BGs, because many were after competitive games. So a group queue might actually have brought those people back. A solo queue has definitely made a lot of those people leave. There are entire BG guilds on both PC and NA that are basically empty now because of this change.

As to whatever poll you are talking about, given how many people that used to duo or group queue in bgs have quit, it won't be reliable. The fact that ZOS themselves have seen feedback that indicates a 50/50 split suggests whatever poll you are talking about is unreliable at best.

Taleof2Cities

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

mav1234

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

Hanokihs

mav1234 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

I feel like you're confusing "group queue" with "duo queue," which I admit is a game of semantics, but most players who have gripes are ones who just want to play with a friend or partner/spouse/whatever. Virtually nobody wants to go back to the four-man pug-stomping fiasco we had before. And if they do... Well, we know who the pug-stompers are.

possived

i invited my friend to play eso with me today. and he is new to the game. i had to explaine to him that we cant pvp together because if i would of took him to cyrodil he would of got stomped on my 810's i didnt want to take him into a low level campaign either becuase we would of ended up riding a horse for 20 minutes just to have a bigger group come behind us when we are sieging and be killed. where as before when group battlegrounds existed we could have just gone into a battle ground together. this update sucks i cant believe zos did this its bs. and too all you cry babys crying about getting stomped by pre--made groups. learn to play the game sometimes you win some sometimes you loose some. its only noobs with no friends that are crying about pre-made groups.

darthgummibear_ESO

I'm more curious about what problem the solo queue was supposed to solve, because I still frequently get matches without full teams.

mav1234

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

I feel like you're confusing "group queue" with "duo queue," which I admit is a game of semantics, but most players who have gripes are ones who just want to play with a friend or partner/spouse/whatever. Virtually nobody wants to go back to the four-man pug-stomping fiasco we had before. And if they do... Well, we know who the pug-stompers are.

There are quite a few people that want to have an option to play premade versus premade. I 100% agree that sticking premades in with solo players is often not a lot of fun.

Whatever ZOS decides on how to implement them, group queue in terms of not being forced to ONLY solo queue is an important thing to re-introduce. Whether this may mean duo or more, that I am open to debate on.

Mancombe_Nosehair

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

I'm more curious about what problem the solo queue was supposed to solve, because I still frequently get matches without full teams.

It's not so much incomplete teams, but premade groups stomping over newer players, particularly under level 50. It could be a bit of a slaughter.

Hanokihs

mav1234 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

I feel like you're confusing "group queue" with "duo queue," which I admit is a game of semantics, but most players who have gripes are ones who just want to play with a friend or partner/spouse/whatever. Virtually nobody wants to go back to the four-man pug-stomping fiasco we had before. And if they do... Well, we know who the pug-stompers are.

There are quite a few people that want to have an option to play premade versus premade. I 100% agree that sticking premades in with solo players is often not a lot of fun.

Whatever ZOS decides on how to implement them, group queue in terms of not being forced to ONLY solo queue is an important thing to re-introduce. Whether this may mean duo or more, that I am open to debate on.

I mean, the ideal system would probably be solo/duo in one queue with 4v4v4 in another queue by itself. But I'm skeptical as to whether or not there are enough 4-man players for that to work out; if those groups were a significant chunk of the BGs playerbase, I'm thinking we wouldn't be here.

Mancombe_Nosehair

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

I feel like you're confusing "group queue" with "duo queue," which I admit is a game of semantics, but most players who have gripes are ones who just want to play with a friend or partner/spouse/whatever. Virtually nobody wants to go back to the four-man pug-stomping fiasco we had before. And if they do... Well, we know who the pug-stompers are.

There are quite a few people that want to have an option to play premade versus premade. I 100% agree that sticking premades in with solo players is often not a lot of fun.

Whatever ZOS decides on how to implement them, group queue in terms of not being forced to ONLY solo queue is an important thing to re-introduce. Whether this may mean duo or more, that I am open to debate on.

I mean, the ideal system would probably be solo/duo in one queue with 4v4v4 in another queue by itself. But I'm skeptical as to whether or not there are enough 4-man players for that to work out; if those groups were a significant chunk of the BGs playerbase, I'm thinking we wouldn't be here.

I think that this is the crux of the problem. I do think that the best decision has been made, but is also means that duos lose from it.

Hopefully Zos can find a solution. Whether there is one, I don't know. Perhaps they have duos just for level 50 battlegrounds as an option.

darthgummibear_ESO

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

I'm more curious about what problem the solo queue was supposed to solve, because I still frequently get matches without full teams.

It's not so much incomplete teams, but premade groups stomping over newer players, particularly under level 50. It could be a bit of a slaughter.

That implies they actually care about balance.

Taleof2Cities

possived wrote: »

this update sucks i cant believe zos did this its bs. and too all you cry babys crying about getting stomped by pre--made groups. learn to play the game sometimes you win some sometimes you loose some. its only noobs with no friends that are crying about pre-made groups.

Looks like we found one of the pug-stompers, @Hanokihs.

mav1234

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

virtually everyone that says they are happy with the solo queue change say they think there should be a group queue option, too.

I have no clue where this comes from either ...

Players (including myself) have said multiple times in multiple forums threads that you can't have both ... because it will lengthen the queue times on both sides (for both pre-mades and solos).

Are you really paying attention to feedback, @mav1234? Especially when your observation is in contrast with recent feedback from ZOS??

Queue times may increase, but a lot of people that would prefer to queue in a group can't queue at all right now - and so they don't. We have no idea how much, or if, queue times would increase for solo queue in the event of a change. It is an assumption to say "queue times will increase" - an assumption that, IMO, needs to be tested.

As to feedback I've followed, yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508864/5-3-you-can-now-only-queue-as-a-solo-player-into-battlegrounds
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

Are the two original threads on it. There's been dozens in this thread that are begging for the option to queue with a friend in BGs. Most people agree.

ZOS' feedback deals with group queue "versus" solo queue - that is, one or the other. Not both, I suspect. I don't think ANYONE that supports a group queue wants a group queue instead of a solo queue. If we assume it is one or the other, this suggests that fully half the players offering feedback are not being represented by the current options. That would definitely suggest group queue is needed.

edit: There were people that expressed reservations about a group queue based solely on population, so true that "virtually everyone" is inaccurate. But there is no way to know if that would prevent a group queue option without some kind of testing. And if they coupled that with some kind of decent rewards for it, I'm sure it would draw interest. The PvP community in this game has been asking for that for a long time.

I feel like you're confusing "group queue" with "duo queue," which I admit is a game of semantics, but most players who have gripes are ones who just want to play with a friend or partner/spouse/whatever. Virtually nobody wants to go back to the four-man pug-stomping fiasco we had before. And if they do... Well, we know who the pug-stompers are.

There are quite a few people that want to have an option to play premade versus premade. I 100% agree that sticking premades in with solo players is often not a lot of fun.

Whatever ZOS decides on how to implement them, group queue in terms of not being forced to ONLY solo queue is an important thing to re-introduce. Whether this may mean duo or more, that I am open to debate on.

I mean, the ideal system would probably be solo/duo in one queue with 4v4v4 in another queue by itself. But I'm skeptical as to whether or not there are enough 4-man players for that to work out; if those groups were a significant chunk of the BGs playerbase, I'm thinking we wouldn't be here.

On the other hand, if premades were not some sizable chunk of the playerbase, enough to be frequently in matches, we wouldn't have had such complaints as to cause the change in the first place. We don't actually know if there would be enough groups queuing until we test it. Many groups actually quit prior to the BG solo queue change, because they were tired of not being able to find other groups to fight. Others only queued when they could do group v group v group queues, as was done weekly by some EU guilds. And so a queue tht is designed to entice groups to play, both by only being group v group, and by having sizable rewards as a result from it, would likely draw people in.

A duo queue would satisfy the majority of us that want a "group queue" back, that is true. But I do think that this game could benefit from a group-specific leaderboard & rewards etc.