Maintenance for the week of January 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 13
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 13
Update 26 combat preview... A HUGE step in the right direction
-
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭I agree zDan, very good direction high level strategy explanetion making me excited and the feeling they care about PVP. The details we will know tomorrow as those are vital for the end result. My experience is ZOS does not listen enough or listens too much. Fingers crosses they can get that balance better this patch.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s nice there tackling the tank meta but I feel like this change will hurt solo players more then groups and group healing imo is the problemEdited by Deathlord92 on April 19, 2020 6:41PM0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭Where are you guys reading this?
Here mate:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/update-26-combat-preview/p11 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some of the replies are pretty funny.
No, no, no. My healing was fine, it was everyone else’s healing that needed to be nerfed. OMG, my healing is being nerfed!
Just wait until the patch notes are up and adjust accordingly.
Self healing is fine. It's cross-healing and healbotting that needed nerfed.
It is a group game; one man's "healbot" is another player's healer build. I'm not for or against the changes, just more interested in seeing how they play out. I think it will actually encourage more group/cross healing, and make it even more powerful.
0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭Some of the replies are pretty funny.
No, no, no. My healing was fine, it was everyone else’s healing that needed to be nerfed. OMG, my healing is being nerfed!
Just wait until the patch notes are up and adjust accordingly.
Self healing is fine. It's cross-healing and healbotting that needed nerfed.
It is a group game; one man's "healbot" is another player's healer build. I'm not for or against the changes, just more interested in seeing how they play out. I think it will actually encourage more group/cross healing, and make it even more powerful.
This might be true, but could be handled very easely by adjusting healing received from other players. So cross healing would be weaker, but self healing stays the same. If somebody wants to healbot himself, he can do that as much as he wants. I dont care about that, can ignore it and walk away. But if he is healing others like crazy, who would have died to my hands, then I kind of get frustrated.
Again self healing, especially in no cp is fine. Stacking mitigation source over mitigation source together with cross healing should be adjusted.1 -
Nerhesi✭✭✭✭I agree this is definitely a start in the right direction - but I feel it's only a ,minor patch to the underlying issue.
You can't have PvP function the same way as PvE where DPS is capable of sustain, mitigation, healing, and DPS. You guys have a real opportunity with battlespirit and CP (or something) update here, consider something like this:
Battle Spirit: -75% to healing, damage, shields. -50% to attribute regeneration and resistances. Then you have to implement a mechanism (CP rework, Battle talents, hell... anything) that allows people to focus in 1 or 2 of the above "nerfed" areas.
The problem with PvP today is everyone has good sustain, mitigation, healing and DPS and burst (to be competitive). You can't fix that by just nerfing healing, because builds will still be great in the other 5 areas. Implement your concept of kiss-curse strategically in PvP so it is truly kiss-curse (also known as "meaningful choices" in most games
)
0 -
Nerhesi✭✭✭✭I agree this is definitely a start in the right direction - but I feel it's only a ,minor patch to the underlying issue.
You can't have PvP function the same way as PvE where DPS is capable of sustain, mitigation, healing, and DPS. You guys have a real opportunity with battlespirit and CP (or something) update here, consider something like this:
Battle Spirit: -75% to healing, damage, shields. -50% to attribute regeneration and resistances. Then you have to implement a mechanism (CP rework, Battle talents, hell... anything) that allows people to focus in 1 or 2 of the above "nerfed" areas.
The problem with PvP today is everyone has good sustain, mitigation, healing and DPS and burst (to be competitive). You can't fix that by just nerfing healing, because builds will still be great in the other 5 areas. Implement your concept of kiss-curse strategically in PvP so it is truly kiss-curse (also known as "meaningful choices" in most games )
[snip]
[snip]
This is the challenge facing eso combat and PvP in general. Combat in this game is generally the weakest feature (frequently highlighted in reviews as such) with PvP being a particular glaring example.
However, there is the vocal community such as yourself that flips out at DoT changes, or LA weaving changes and so on. You have a decision to make, either continue to enjoy the super narrow meta and sub-par systems that exist today - or realise that some drastic actions are required to make the game attractive and competitive. This is especially true in pvp where we may be ok with things like weaving, and everyone building the same way - then we cry when a different way to play threats to change the meta.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 1:35PM0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭I agree this is definitely a start in the right direction - but I feel it's only a ,minor patch to the underlying issue.
You can't have PvP function the same way as PvE where DPS is capable of sustain, mitigation, healing, and DPS. You guys have a real opportunity with battlespirit and CP (or something) update here, consider something like this:
Battle Spirit: -75% to healing, damage, shields. -50% to attribute regeneration and resistances. Then you have to implement a mechanism (CP rework, Battle talents, hell... anything) that allows people to focus in 1 or 2 of the above "nerfed" areas.
The problem with PvP today is everyone has good sustain, mitigation, healing and DPS and burst (to be competitive). You can't fix that by just nerfing healing, because builds will still be great in the other 5 areas. Implement your concept of kiss-curse strategically in PvP so it is truly kiss-curse (also known as "meaningful choices" in most games )
[snip]
[snip]
This is the challenge facing eso combat and PvP in general. Combat in this game is generally the weakest feature (frequently highlighted in reviews as such) with PvP being a particular glaring example.
However, there is the vocal community such as yourself that flips out at DoT changes, or LA weaving changes and so on. You have a decision to make, either continue to enjoy the super narrow meta and sub-par systems that exist today - or realise that some drastic actions are required to make the game attractive and competitive. This is especially true in pvp where we may be ok with things like weaving, and everyone building the same way - then we cry when a different way to play threats to change the meta.
Even if everyone has sustain, damage and tankyness, this is not necessarely a bad thing. Surely there needs to be some kind of balance between having damage and tankiness. But you way is too harsh making mist classes not really viable to play. Imagine you reduce healing to what you suggested, what would be the result? Favouring a playstyle to totally avoid damage, since you cant tank or heal through it anyway. There are two classes able to live with such a state, which is nightblade and sorcerer. Sorcerer would have to focus heavenly on their mobility to avoid any damage, on the other hand nightblades can totally avoid damage by cloaking (if they play clever and it is not bugged) and shade. So basically every other class would have a real disadvantage, since they would either be oneshot to sorcs and nightblades (which still can build for damage) or try to be tanky or with enough healing power, but lose all damage to not being able to kill reliably. Your suggestion just favours the classes being able to avoid damage. Welcome to stamblades online.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 1:35PM2 -
Ecfigies✭✭✭I really just wanted to be able to play on Cyro, never felt any of these issues at all, it seems that everyone were squish. I just wanted a decent playable game with good response and a fast paced combat, with opportunities to be a solo player which ESO brought to me before, now is just a nerfland of picking flowers.
Nothing in these updates justify the fact that will probably increase the problems than fixing it. After 3 years I left ESO because I can't play, lag it's the core of the game plus the clunkiness after these patches it's amazing.
It just works.Edited by Ecfigies on April 20, 2020 12:27AM0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
.SavageChain wrote: »Some of the replies are pretty funny.
No, no, no. My healing was fine, it was everyone else’s healing that needed to be nerfed. OMG, my healing is being nerfed!
Just wait until the patch notes are up and adjust accordingly.
Self healing is fine. It's cross-healing and healbotting that needed nerfed.
It is a group game; one man's "healbot" is another player's healer build. I'm not for or against the changes, just more interested in seeing how they play out. I think it will actually encourage more group/cross healing, and make it even more powerful.
This might be true, but could be handled very easely by adjusting healing received from other players. So cross healing would be weaker, but self healing stays the same. If somebody wants to healbot himself, he can do that as much as he wants. I dont care about that, can ignore it and walk away. But if he is healing others like crazy, who would have died to my hands, then I kind of get frustrated.
Again self healing, especially in no cp is fine. Stacking mitigation source over mitigation source together with cross healing should be adjusted.
Personally I think performance is so bad in openworld, you cannot know what is actually working. Until they fix it nerfing for balance is a bad idea. Just move fast enough and the server will give you all the mitigation you need.
Either way, after looking at the PTS, its going to be a proc-set meta.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
Battlespirit is baseline to the game environment. I don't count it in the calculation.
What you've shown here is that major protection useless due to diminishing returns if you block. Minor and major maim are more impactful.Edited by katorga on April 21, 2020 4:02PM0 -
Nerhesi✭✭✭✭% Mitigation needs to be looked at hard(on skills like spiritmender). I dont agree that a blanket nerf across the board to healing is the right move, stamblades and stamsorcs already have bad healing, making that worse will be noticeable, but dragonknights and templars, warden and necromancer wont rly feel that at all since they are already overhealing as it is.
They need to look at mitigation as a whole. Adhoc skills, Major Protection, Minor Protection, CP, etc. Mitigation outpaces damage bonuses because of the way it's calculated - which is after damage. Until that changes, you will never change the tank meta because you are literally getting more value from the same %ages or points put into mitigation rather than damage.0 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭indeed, this is an amazing change! I can't wait for the update to drop. With these adjustments to healing and mitigation I can't wait to hop on [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 1:32PM1 -
Nerhesi✭✭✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
I'm an advocate of that as long as you can't kill anyone if you have a build with that much mitigation.
PvP has to have meaningful choices... not every build simply being a different way to get Great Burst, CC,Healing, Mitigation, Mobility and Sustain.
0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭% Mitigation needs to be looked at hard(on skills like spiritmender). I dont agree that a blanket nerf across the board to healing is the right move, stamblades and stamsorcs already have bad healing, making that worse will be noticeable, but dragonknights and templars, warden and necromancer wont rly feel that at all since they are already overhealing as it is.
They need to look at mitigation as a whole. Adhoc skills, Major Protection, Minor Protection, CP, etc. Mitigation outpaces damage bonuses because of the way it's calculated - which is after damage. Until that changes, you will never change the tank meta because you are literally getting more value from the same %ages or points put into mitigation rather than damage.
Tank meta is already over. You'll be crying about being one-shot next patch because the only mitigation you will have will be major/minor protection, potentates, buffer of the swift and such. By the time you apply major/minor maim it will be too late.
Just back of napkin theory crafting with the new sets, I'll be rolling with around 22K+ penetration, 7000+ effective damage, and massive base movement speed making me almost impossible to target - in noCP. If you go off balance, you are instantly gone. Going to be fun.1 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭They somewhat encouraged tanky playstyles , at least for those that’s going to play vamp. Certain skills scale off max health or missing health. I’m thinking people might build tanky wardens and necros.Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
Battlespirit is baseline to the game environment. I don't count it in the calculation.
What you've shown here is that major protection useless due to diminishing returns if you block. Minor and major maim are more impactful.
Your way of thinking actually makes the range of mitigation worse. Not including battle spirit makes the overall range of mitigation from 0% naked to 90% fully buffed vs. including battle spirit where the range is 50% naked to 95% fully buffed-semantics really but if you are taking mitigation off of tool tip values then you have to include battle spirit. Major and minor protection do a lot more when you are not blocking or running full 50% armor value.
The other half of the equation is damage, its too friggin high. I am also a proponent for capping stat pool + (wd/sd*10) at 80k. Right now you have people running around with 24k tool tip on leap that crits for 36k plus, one guy that is mitigating 95% of that is getting hit for 1800 another guy that is mitigating 66% is getting hit for 12k. That range right there is what propels the tank meta. It makes it so you have to build high mitigation to survive some of the high damage abilities out there. Then since people are running so much mit now everyone also has to hit tha tmuch harder to hurt those people. Meanwhile people that don't invest into mit like that are getting smoked by people dishing out that kind of damage.
The whole range between damage and mitigation needs to be drawn in so it doesn't create such a wide margin. The worst part of the whole thing is that it is possible to run high mitigation AND high damage at the same time, coupled with cross healing making certain group comps pretty much invincible ulti dumping groups with as little as 4 people.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
Battlespirit is baseline to the game environment. I don't count it in the calculation.
What you've shown here is that major protection useless due to diminishing returns if you block. Minor and major maim are more impactful.
Your way of thinking actually makes the range of mitigation worse. Not including battle spirit makes the overall range of mitigation from 0% naked to 90% fully buffed vs. including battle spirit where the range is 50% naked to 95% fully buffed-semantics really but if you are taking mitigation off of tool tip values then you have to include battle spirit. Major and minor protection do a lot more when you are not blocking or running full 50% armor value.
The other half of the equation is damage, its too friggin high. I am also a proponent for capping stat pool + (wd/sd*10) at 80k. Right now you have people running around with 24k tool tip on leap that crits for 36k plus, one guy that is mitigating 95% of that is getting hit for 1800 another guy that is mitigating 66% is getting hit for 12k. That range right there is what propels the tank meta. It makes it so you have to build high mitigation to survive some of the high damage abilities out there. Then since people are running so much mit now everyone also has to hit tha tmuch harder to hurt those people. Meanwhile people that don't invest into mit like that are getting smoked by people dishing out that kind of damage.
The whole range between damage and mitigation needs to be drawn in so it doesn't create such a wide margin. The worst part of the whole thing is that it is possible to run high mitigation AND high damage at the same time, coupled with cross healing making certain group comps pretty much invincible ulti dumping groups with as little as 4 people.
Mitigation and damage BOTH can't be "too friggin high". If you have to nerf BOTH, then you shouldn't be nerfing either. Either way, next patch damage is going way, way up, and your ability to counter it is going down.
Nerf threads are always backwards looking. They've already missed the meta. The 4 person "invincible ulti dumping group" already knows what the next meta is and will show up next release with new builds and be just as effective. Like investing, if you are reading about it in the papers, you are too late, and never fight the Federal Reserve (i.e. the meta).
Edited by katorga on April 22, 2020 3:51AM0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
Battlespirit is baseline to the game environment. I don't count it in the calculation.
What you've shown here is that major protection useless due to diminishing returns if you block. Minor and major maim are more impactful.
Your way of thinking actually makes the range of mitigation worse. Not including battle spirit makes the overall range of mitigation from 0% naked to 90% fully buffed vs. including battle spirit where the range is 50% naked to 95% fully buffed-semantics really but if you are taking mitigation off of tool tip values then you have to include battle spirit. Major and minor protection do a lot more when you are not blocking or running full 50% armor value.
The other half of the equation is damage, its too friggin high. I am also a proponent for capping stat pool + (wd/sd*10) at 80k. Right now you have people running around with 24k tool tip on leap that crits for 36k plus, one guy that is mitigating 95% of that is getting hit for 1800 another guy that is mitigating 66% is getting hit for 12k. That range right there is what propels the tank meta. It makes it so you have to build high mitigation to survive some of the high damage abilities out there. Then since people are running so much mit now everyone also has to hit tha tmuch harder to hurt those people. Meanwhile people that don't invest into mit like that are getting smoked by people dishing out that kind of damage.
The whole range between damage and mitigation needs to be drawn in so it doesn't create such a wide margin. The worst part of the whole thing is that it is possible to run high mitigation AND high damage at the same time, coupled with cross healing making certain group comps pretty much invincible ulti dumping groups with as little as 4 people.
Mitigation and damage BOTH can't be "too friggin high". If you have to nerf BOTH, then you shouldn't be nerfing either. Either way, next patch damage is going way, way up, and your ability to counter it is going down.
Nerf threads are always backwards looking. They've already missed the meta. The 4 person "invincible ulti dumping group" already knows what the next meta is and will show up next release with new builds and be just as effective. Like investing, if you are reading about it in the papers, you are too late, and never fight the Federal Reserve (i.e. the meta).
Sure it can. If it was possible to do 100,000 damage with abilities and block for 100% mitigation it would become a one shot or block game. Sounds like an extreme example, except its not considering some of the parse videos out there right now where people are light attacking for 40k and abilities are hitting for 80k.
edit: scratch that there are parses where abilities exceed 100k significantly.Edited by Ranger209 on April 22, 2020 9:48PM0 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭I agree that the changes are very minimal. But the fact that they are actually acknowledging the tank meta for once makes me look at this positively. They have plenty of time to tweak the numbers from PTS feedback, I doubt healing will stay at only 10% less.
As for % mitigation I strongly agree that this needs looked at. It is too easy to get multiple sources of it with very little drawbacks. Even with a major protection nerf, it would still be super strong which is why it should be strictly put on high costing ultimates.
I am excited from what i've seen but from past ZOS experience it can always go downhill, fast.
I'm an advocate for capping mitigation at 80-85%
80-85% is about the max possible now isn't it, assuming around 55% total mitigation from % reduction buffs, and 50% mitigation from capped armor.
Everyone gets 50% mitigation in pvp areas from battle spirit, you can get 50% from armor bringing total to 75%, 50% more from blocking bringing it to 87.5%, 30% more from using 1 hand shield and say iron skin dk passive while blocking, bringing it to 91.25%, 30% from major protection bringing it to 93.875, 8% from minor protection bringing it to 94.375%. Feels like I am missing something as I believe this can be pushed even higher.
Battlespirit is baseline to the game environment. I don't count it in the calculation.
What you've shown here is that major protection useless due to diminishing returns if you block. Minor and major maim are more impactful.
Your way of thinking actually makes the range of mitigation worse. Not including battle spirit makes the overall range of mitigation from 0% naked to 90% fully buffed vs. including battle spirit where the range is 50% naked to 95% fully buffed-semantics really but if you are taking mitigation off of tool tip values then you have to include battle spirit. Major and minor protection do a lot more when you are not blocking or running full 50% armor value.
The other half of the equation is damage, its too friggin high. I am also a proponent for capping stat pool + (wd/sd*10) at 80k. Right now you have people running around with 24k tool tip on leap that crits for 36k plus, one guy that is mitigating 95% of that is getting hit for 1800 another guy that is mitigating 66% is getting hit for 12k. That range right there is what propels the tank meta. It makes it so you have to build high mitigation to survive some of the high damage abilities out there. Then since people are running so much mit now everyone also has to hit tha tmuch harder to hurt those people. Meanwhile people that don't invest into mit like that are getting smoked by people dishing out that kind of damage.
The whole range between damage and mitigation needs to be drawn in so it doesn't create such a wide margin. The worst part of the whole thing is that it is possible to run high mitigation AND high damage at the same time, coupled with cross healing making certain group comps pretty much invincible ulti dumping groups with as little as 4 people.
Mitigation and damage BOTH can't be "too friggin high". If you have to nerf BOTH, then you shouldn't be nerfing either. Either way, next patch damage is going way, way up, and your ability to counter it is going down.
Nerf threads are always backwards looking. They've already missed the meta. The 4 person "invincible ulti dumping group" already knows what the next meta is and will show up next release with new builds and be just as effective. Like investing, if you are reading about it in the papers, you are too late, and never fight the Federal Reserve (i.e. the meta).
Sure it can. If it was possible to do 100,000 damage with abilities and block for 100% mitigation it would become a one shot or block game. Sounds like an extreme example, except its not considering some of the parse videos out there right now where people are light attacking for 40k and abilities are hitting for 80k.
It is possible to get 99% mitigation, on my pvp tank fully buffed i have 98.3% mitigation. But that build is going to be alot worse this patch since i play solo.0 -
Hexyl✭✭✭Finally ZOS have listened and are reducing healing via battle spirit! A must needed change along with reducing impen to counter the tank and healing meta..
End of heavy meta armor ?
No, i doubt. There is some OP heavy set coming with Greymoore.
Eternal Vigor – Heavy Armor
2 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Health Recovery
5 – Adds 1407 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.
This. + troll king set + paria set + new vampire skill. meta cancer come back.
PvP still broken as always in ESO.
Edited by Hexyl on April 22, 2020 11:04PM1 -
Saubon✭✭✭End of heavy meta armor ?
No, i doubt. There is some OP heavy set coming with Greymoore.
Eternal Vigor – Heavy Armor
2 – Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
4 – Adds 129 Health Recovery
5 – Adds 1407 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less.
This. + troll king set + paria set + new vampire skill. meta cancer come back.
PvP still broken as always in ESO.
Troll king is heavily nerfed on PTS and for vamp passive you need stage 3 which reduces health regen by 70%. Other than that what are you exactly going to do in pvp with 3 defensive sets?0 -
Hexyl✭✭✭Troll king still efficient with 1k regen. But i'm sure they nerf it just to make their new DLC more attractive ( and grab more money).
And if you need more precision with vampire skills look those one :
Perfect Scion (Morph 2) – You ascend to Vampire Stage 5 while transformed, which grants all the benefits of Vampire Stage 4 with none of the drawbacks.
Blood Mist (Morph 2) – This new morph deals damage to enemies around you and heals for the damage caused.
Exhilarating Drain (Morph 2) – Generates Ultimate over the channel.
Don't you see some cancer unkillable build ?
1vs1 is already dead ( good player vs good player is a more than 20min fight) but now they kill also the 1vsXEdited by Hexyl on April 23, 2020 11:46AM0 -
Saubon✭✭✭Troll king still efficient with 1k regen. But i'm sure they nerf it just to make their new DLC more attractive ( and grab more money).
And if you need more precision with vampire skills look those one :
Perfect Scion (Morph 2) – You ascend to Vampire Stage 5 while transformed, which grants all the benefits of Vampire Stage 4 with none of the drawbacks.
Blood Mist (Morph 2) – This new morph deals damage to enemies around you and heals for the damage caused.
Exhilarating Drain (Morph 2) – Generates Ultimate over the channel.
Don't you see some cancer unkillable build ?
1vs1 is already dead ( good player vs good player is a more than 20min fight) but now they kill also the 1vsX
Ah, I see what you did there, still you can't generate any ultimate during scion form. So best option would be probably nord warden with shimmering shield to minimize downtime, but honestly you won't deal much damage with this.
I would rather run more offensive version that would exploit 15% lifesteal from scion formEdited by Saubon on April 23, 2020 12:08PM0 -
Hexyl✭✭✭Hm maybe but with eternal vigor you have good sustain. Or if you want, go with the new op penetration set instead of paria. Or fury ?
Btw Eternal vigor is the new op set. they nerf healing but they give us more health regen. Absolutly nonsense.Edited by Hexyl on April 23, 2020 12:20PM0 -
GRXRG✭✭✭✭
How is that so? You will still see stamcros spamming mortal coil and stamdens with arctic blast still unkillable while using the new penetration set and 2-shot people.
Unless of course in the next PTS patches we see some juicy action against those classes, but yeah, they are pay2play, so they will never get "adjusted" probably.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How is that so? You will still see stamcros spamming mortal coil and stamdens with arctic blast still unkillable while using the new penetration set and 2-shot people.
Unless of course in the next PTS patches we see some juicy action against those classes, but yeah, they are pay2play, so they will never get "adjusted" probably.
You won't notice the heal changes at all. People are running around with 5K hps on average, self applied, non-crit. It is a combination of health regen and hots. Battle spirit changes will will drop that to around 4600k hps. That doesn't even include cross healing and burst heals.
Mitigation changes are probably not going to be noticed either.
You will notice much higher damage, higher crit damage.0 -
Q_Q✭✭✭Finally ZOS have listened and are reducing healing via battle spirit! A must needed change along with reducing impen to counter the tank and healing meta. The change to BRP dw is also MUCH appreciated, however they should look at reducing % mitigation too.
Overall this is amazing and is a huge step in the right direction for pvp. GG ZOS.
“HUGE step in the right direction”
What? Another nerf to 1vxers?
I thought this was about reducing lag and making the game playable, but it’s not. It’s about players who can’t kill solo players and call them, us, ME...hackers everyday.
Edited by Q_Q on April 23, 2020 4:39PM0