I'm soo glad premades aren't a thing in BGs anymore!

Berek_Bloodfang

https://imgur.com/a/Y4WdP8T
This screenshot shows how the change to remove group queuing / premades hasn't actually fixed the problem, it's a match making issue, always has been, always will be, they need to fix their coding and not remove our ability to play with people.... I'm betting "purple" thought they were facing premades... Oh but wait, that's no longer an option now is it?


https://imgur.com/a/8VNtcT7
This screenshot shows how removing the option for us to group queue has forced us to end up in matches like this...


Here are more screenshots showing how this "new" change hasn't helped at all, it's clearly an MMR match making issue.... It always has been and always will be, players like myself will just continue to run over these "pugs", there is absolutely no competition or challenge...
https://imgur.com/a/PvxJFsk
https://imgur.com/a/iFN7xn4
https://imgur.com/a/Q0nP688
https://imgur.com/a/lC61Uyf
https://imgur.com/a/ESDHI76
https://imgur.com/a/GvAIenv
https://imgur.com/a/HmhnM1m


People, what i want is to be able to play with my friends, we're different factions so WE CANNOT PLAY TOGETHER IN CYRODIIL, we are also not 810 CP so we get wrecked in there anyways, if you say go play in non-CP content there is virtually no one around most of the time...

So yeah, we bought this game when it included the feature of us being able to queue together for battlegrounds, we expect that sort of feature in an MMORPG, there was no reason to remove it, they could have addressed the premade problem in a different way, perhaps having a better MMR/match making system???

mav1234

Little context?

As to premades, I haven't touched BGs since the change... I miss them, but if I'm not going to be able to occasionally play with a friend I like to PvP with, I might as well focus my energies on other activities. As someone that used to be very big on competitive, instanced PvP, I wish a group queue of some form would have been explored. Ah well.

Xebov

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

it's a match making issue, always has been, always will be, they need to fix their coding and not remove our ability to play with people....

This had nothing to do with matchmaking or the matchmaking code. In order to get a good matchmaking you need a big player base that wants to play this mode, MMR doesnt work with small bases. PvP and BGs dont have a big player base. The problem simply comes from the way how pvp works and how it rewards players.

If you want a good matchmaking to happen you have to get the devs into redesign rewards and PvP in generel to make it fun for more players to play. Everything else will not work.

MurderMostFoul

Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches. Lopsided match will always occur in ESO and every other PvP game. Instead, the removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up. You would have a much higher chance of winning (often in lopsided games) and everyone solo queuing at that time had a lower chance of winning, due to the possibility of facing a premade. That four man premade could ruin the experience for 8 solo queuers every time they got placed in a BG.

Now, everyone enters matchmaking on equal footing. The only advantages you bring with you into matchmaking are your Skill and Build. BGs are a much more rewarding experience now, knowing that the outcome of a match is more dependent on:

1. The skill everyone has acquired through hours of gameplay; and
2. The builds everyone has crafted, grinded for, and tweaked

If you and/or your teammate(s) are good enough, perhaps you'll win in a lopsided fashion. If not, perhaps your opponents will earn a lopsided win. At least now, lopsided wins are not rewarded over and over to the same team who enters matchmaking with a guaranteed advantage as a group.

Alucardo

I'm wondering if the problem with BGs is that there's just not enough people participating. For truly fair matchmaking with groups you need a lot of people spread across different MMR brackets. When I used to do nothing but BGs it could take a while to join a game, and I'd eventually always see the same people. Trying to join a match not at prime time with a custom gamemode was near impossible.
Say what you like, but removing premades from the equation in its current state was probably a good move on ZOS's part. I get people aren't happy about it, but I can almost guarantee you there were more people unhappy about getting steamrolled by a premade, organised group while they were stuck with random casual players who are just there for fun.

Danklord

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm wondering if the problem with BGs is that there's just not enough people participating. For truly fair matchmaking with groups you need a lot of people spread across different MMR brackets. When I used to do nothing but BGs it could take a while to join a game, and I'd eventually always see the same people. Trying to join a match not at prime time with a custom gamemode was near impossible.
Say what you like, but removing premades from the equation in its current state was probably a good move on ZOS's part. I get people aren't happy about it, but I can almost guarantee you there were more people unhappy about getting steamrolled by a premade, organised group while they were stuck with random casual players who are just there for fun.

Unless you can actually prove how many premades there were, this is a useless argument. Alot of games i get nowadays could just as much have been a premade to, pocket healing the biggest dpser etc. Running in a big grp with timed ultis, happens now aswell.

Better queues atm is cuz of mmr reset, not because more ppl are queueing. Just give it a month, you'll be back to facing exact same ppl and long queue times.

Danklord

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches. Lopsided match will always occur in ESO and every other PvP game. Instead, the removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up. You would have a much higher chance of winning (often in lopsided games) and everyone solo queuing at that time had a lower chance of winning, due to the possibility of facing a premade. That four man premade could ruin the experience for 8 solo queuers every time they got placed in a BG.

Now, everyone enters matchmaking on equal footing. The only advantages you bring with you into matchmaking are your Skill and Build. BGs are a much more rewarding experience now, knowing that the outcome of a match is more dependent on:

1. The skill everyone has acquired through hours of gameplay; and
2. The builds everyone has crafted, grinded for, and tweaked

If you and/or your teammate(s) are good enough, perhaps you'll win in a lopsided fashion. If not, perhaps your opponents will earn a lopsided win. At least now, lopsided wins are not rewarded over and over to the same team who enters matchmaking with a guaranteed advantage as a group.

Ye cuz expecting random ppl to pull their weight always worked out, thats def why ppl never do premade content anymore. Premade trials? Arenas? Vet? Nah bru i never premade that.......

Just right now i faced a nightblade, all he did was auto attack, not even joking. He didn't do a ability, no buffs, nothing. He just auto attacked me. That guy def didn't hold his team down or anything, he clearly brought in his best skill, build and everything.

Bring back premades, this BG gambling is getting real boring.

Paidkilla

It's ok to que up for other modes besides Deathmatch sometimes.

Danklord

Paidkilla wrote: »

It's ok to que up for other modes besides Deathmatch sometimes.

My issue is the team and you decide to suggest a even more team based mode, the irony is overwhelming. And tbh the other ones arn't fun, even less so with randoms. If i had a full premade i could because then we could discuss how to go about it.
Deathmatch is the easiest to carry, so aslong as this garbage system is in place, im staying here. Besides blowing ppl up is far more fun than standing next to a flag for the next 40seconds.

MurderMostFoul

Danklord wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches. Lopsided match will always occur in ESO and every other PvP game. Instead, the removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up. You would have a much higher chance of winning (often in lopsided games) and everyone solo queuing at that time had a lower chance of winning, due to the possibility of facing a premade. That four man premade could ruin the experience for 8 solo queuers every time they got placed in a BG.

Now, everyone enters matchmaking on equal footing. The only advantages you bring with you into matchmaking are your Skill and Build. BGs are a much more rewarding experience now, knowing that the outcome of a match is more dependent on:

1. The skill everyone has acquired through hours of gameplay; and
2. The builds everyone has crafted, grinded for, and tweaked

If you and/or your teammate(s) are good enough, perhaps you'll win in a lopsided fashion. If not, perhaps your opponents will earn a lopsided win. At least now, lopsided wins are not rewarded over and over to the same team who enters matchmaking with a guaranteed advantage as a group.

Ye cuz expecting random ppl to pull their weight always worked out, thats def why ppl never do premade content anymore. Premade trials? Arenas? Vet? Nah bru i never premade that.......

Just right now i faced a nightblade, all he did was auto attack, not even joking. He didn't do a ability, no buffs, nothing. He just auto attacked me. That guy def didn't hold his team down or anything, he clearly brought in his best skill, build and everything.

Bring back premades, this BG gambling is getting real boring.

Do you see? The point of this change is to prevent folks from guaranteeing that they have competent teammates in every game, thereby giving them a massive advantage against folks who solo queue. Everyone enters matchmaking dealing with the same mixed bag of potential teammates.

Would I like to have teammates who know what they're doing ever game?
Yes.

Would it be fair?
No.

You should expect, on average, to win about 1/3 have the games you play. If you're good it should be a little more, if not, then it'll be less.

Constantly complaining about the quality of your teammates makes it sound like you became far too reliant on gaining an advantage over other players by group queuing.

Paidkilla

You see i would assume 90% of the playerbase does not post or read these forums, You don't know who the maj/min is. For all you know most of the playerbase could have been complaining about premades via feedback in game. The only people who has access to the numbers is Zos, anything else anyone says is just guessing. Of the 30 friends I have ingame i am the only forum watcher, catch my drift. I have played since beta And I can tell you one thing, Zos is gonna do whatever they wan't.
They have a vision for their game, and i can assure you any changes they have made that were drastic Came from huge feedback or complaints. If they lose one disgruntled vet, I promise you they will gain 5 new players excited about the game, that are dumping money into the crown store.

idk

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches. Lopsided match will always occur in ESO and every other PvP game. Instead, the removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up. You would have a much higher chance of winning (often in lopsided games) and everyone solo queuing at that time had a lower chance of winning, due to the possibility of facing a premade. That four man premade could ruin the experience for 8 solo queuers every time they got placed in a BG.

Now, everyone enters matchmaking on equal footing. The only advantages you bring with you into matchmaking are your Skill and Build. BGs are a much more rewarding experience now, knowing that the outcome of a match is more dependent on:

1. The skill everyone has acquired through hours of gameplay; and
2. The builds everyone has crafted, grinded for, and tweaked

If you and/or your teammate(s) are good enough, perhaps you'll win in a lopsided fashion. If not, perhaps your opponents will earn a lopsided win. At least now, lopsided wins are not rewarded over and over to the same team who enters matchmaking with a guaranteed advantage as a group.

True. In other games, I have heard the same thing. People complaining about pre-made groups as the reason their team lost the match when it si more often they were outmatched by a random group.

The solution may be for Zos should create a ranked PvP for a more competitive PvP where we can queue solo or group and leave the unranked as it is now. Those interested in the challenge will queue for ranked regardless of them queuing solo or group. However, I am not sure if ESO has the PvP player base for this.

MurderMostFoul

Danklord wrote: »

@MurderMostFoul
Thats the dumbest argument i've ever heard and probably proves how bad this "only solo" queue really is.
"Would I like to have teammates who know what they're doing ever game?
Yes."

And next

"Would it be fair?
No."

Well thats BGs for you, THEY ARN'T FAIR. Because 1 team is always better. But to make a dice roll decide it is the outmost worst idea you could ever implement.

I don't understand what you aren't getting. They removed a method by which a group of players could gain and an advantage over the others in the matchmaking pool, thereby making it more fair.

Danklord wrote: »

"Constantly complaining about the quality of your teammates makes it sound like you became far too reliant on gaining an advantage over other players by group queuing."

Also not true cuz i've never had a 4man premade. I either did solo or duo.

So, true. A duo is still a group that provides an advantage.

However, i do believe that allowing duo and solo queuers is the best solution. It allows for some social play and additional coordination without creating completely overpowered groups. A separate group queue would probably not get enough traffic to be worth it.

Iskiab

That wasn’t even a lopsided game lol.

Qbiken

As long as the current mmr system remains where you can only gain mmr and not lose it, BG's will remain horrible, regardless of us being able to solo que or que with friends.

MMR should be disabled completely until zos can implement a propper ranking system.

ZOS_Lunar

We've removed some posts from this thread due to baiting.

It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. Please make sure your posts are constructive and on topic to keep the forums a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

Danklord

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

@MurderMostFoul
Thats the dumbest argument i've ever heard and probably proves how bad this "only solo" queue really is.
"Would I like to have teammates who know what they're doing ever game?
Yes."

And next

"Would it be fair?
No."

Well thats BGs for you, THEY ARN'T FAIR. Because 1 team is always better. But to make a dice roll decide it is the outmost worst idea you could ever implement.

I don't understand what you aren't getting. They removed a method by which a group of players could gain and an advantage over the others in the matchmaking pool, thereby making it more fair.

Danklord wrote: »

"Constantly complaining about the quality of your teammates makes it sound like you became far too reliant on gaining an advantage over other players by group queuing."

Also not true cuz i've never had a 4man premade. I either did solo or duo.

So, true. A duo is still a group that provides an advantage.

However, i do believe that allowing duo and solo queuers is the best solution. It allows for some social play and additional coordination without creating completely overpowered groups. A separate group queue would probably not get enough traffic to be worth it.

So we need to remove builds & and healers then. Because they also give an advantage. Only allow 1 build so it makes it more fair. And can't have healers, because if 1 team gets a healer they have a bigger chance to win, they get an advantage.

MurderMostFoul

Danklord wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

@MurderMostFoul
Thats the dumbest argument i've ever heard and probably proves how bad this "only solo" queue really is.
"Would I like to have teammates who know what they're doing ever game?
Yes."

And next

"Would it be fair?
No."

Well thats BGs for you, THEY ARN'T FAIR. Because 1 team is always better. But to make a dice roll decide it is the outmost worst idea you could ever implement.

I don't understand what you aren't getting. They removed a method by which a group of players could gain and an advantage over the others in the matchmaking pool, thereby making it more fair.

Danklord wrote: »

"Constantly complaining about the quality of your teammates makes it sound like you became far too reliant on gaining an advantage over other players by group queuing."

Also not true cuz i've never had a 4man premade. I either did solo or duo.

So, true. A duo is still a group that provides an advantage.

However, i do believe that allowing duo and solo queuers is the best solution. It allows for some social play and additional coordination without creating completely overpowered groups. A separate group queue would probably not get enough traffic to be worth it.

So we need to remove builds & and healers then. Because they also give an advantage. Only allow 1 build so it makes it more fair. And can't have healers, because if 1 team gets a healer they have a bigger chance to win, they get an advantage.

Ridiculous suggestions are a weak form of argumentation.

Danklord

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

@MurderMostFoul
Thats the dumbest argument i've ever heard and probably proves how bad this "only solo" queue really is.
"Would I like to have teammates who know what they're doing ever game?
Yes."

And next

"Would it be fair?
No."

Well thats BGs for you, THEY ARN'T FAIR. Because 1 team is always better. But to make a dice roll decide it is the outmost worst idea you could ever implement.

I don't understand what you aren't getting. They removed a method by which a group of players could gain and an advantage over the others in the matchmaking pool, thereby making it more fair.

Danklord wrote: »

"Constantly complaining about the quality of your teammates makes it sound like you became far too reliant on gaining an advantage over other players by group queuing."

Also not true cuz i've never had a 4man premade. I either did solo or duo.

So, true. A duo is still a group that provides an advantage.

However, i do believe that allowing duo and solo queuers is the best solution. It allows for some social play and additional coordination without creating completely overpowered groups. A separate group queue would probably not get enough traffic to be worth it.

So we need to remove builds & and healers then. Because they also give an advantage. Only allow 1 build so it makes it more fair. And can't have healers, because if 1 team gets a healer they have a bigger chance to win, they get an advantage.

Ridiculous suggestions are a weak form of argumentation.

Okey then, so your entire reasoning for removing premades, is because its an advantage. Thats literally it. But removing any other advantages is "ridiculous suggestion."

Feels like you just don't want to adress the argument so you play it off with unreasonable claims. My point was that just because something is an advantage, doesn't mean its bad or should be removed. It's not like you can't get a premade yourself. I mean builds do give an insane advantage if you find something thats really good. Theres builds that lets ppl just sprint around and pop 1 heal full hp, while taking very little dmg and bursting ppl down in a few seconds. Those builds are way stronger than your average build. Thats an advantage, also you can't even do anything about it besides trying to get ur own overpowered set. See where im coming from? Theres solutions to these advantages to equal the battlefield without removing the advantage to begin with.

Because if your only reasoning for removing premades was an advantage, then why stop only at premades? What makes premades different to strong builds, having healer in ur team etc. All of these you can solve yourself, but you say we should remove premades but you can't give an argument to why any other advantage shouldn't be removed.

MurderMostFoul

Danklord wrote: »

Because if your only reasoning for removing premades was an advantage, then why stop only at premades? What makes premades different to strong builds, having healer in ur team etc. All of these you can solve yourself, but you say we should remove premades but you can't give an argument to why any other advantage shouldn't be removed.

Yes I can.

The first and most obvious reason why the premade advantage ought to be removed while others remain is that it is easy to implement. Also, it's removal has, in all likelihood, simplified the matchmaking algorithm.

Removing certain builds is ridiculous because it's implementation would be messy to the point of being unworkable. This is a stark contrast to removing premades.

Further, most of the other advantages are earned through actual gameplay (build, gear, skill). This is unlike just grouping up, switch confers an advantage that is not earned through gameplay. Having players' earned gear, skill, and builds trumped by facing a premade is an undesirable gameplay experience. It makes sense for ZOS to decide to stop delivering it to their playerbase.

Danklord

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

Because if your only reasoning for removing premades was an advantage, then why stop only at premades? What makes premades different to strong builds, having healer in ur team etc. All of these you can solve yourself, but you say we should remove premades but you can't give an argument to why any other advantage shouldn't be removed.

Yes I can.

The first and most obvious reason why the premade advantage ought to be removed while others remain is that it is easy to implement. Also, it's removal has, in all likelihood, simplified the matchmaking algorithm.

Removing certain builds is ridiculous because it's implementation would be messy to the point of being unworkable. This is a stark contrast to removing premades.

Further, most of the other advantages are earned through actual gameplay (build, gear, skill). This is unlike just grouping up, switch confers an advantage that is not earned through gameplay. Having players' earned gear, skill, and builds trumped by facing a premade is an undesirable gameplay experience. It makes sense for ZOS to decide to stop delivering it to their playerbase.

First ima just say your first argument is really silly, so because something is easy, it ought to be implemented? Was simplifying the algorithm necessary? Was removing any kind of premade the only way to solve this, or the best one?

It's not messy, i mean sure it would completly go against how ESO works, but its def not messy or difficult. Lots of mmorpg has this, ffxiv and Wow for starters. ZOS just decides that if you're a tank you go this, if you magicka you go this, if you stamina you go this. Nothing messy or difficult about it, hell it would probably make it 100x easier to make sure everything is balanced. Because then ZOS doesn't need to do deep research on what sets ppl use, what combinations are OP, what makes a build OP etc etc. Then they just need to see "ah magicka warden is a bit to strong, okey then just tone down these numbers and done." Because they made few combinations, now they have like 100+ sets to keep an eye on.

No premades do not win by default, thats wrong and you know it. Just because i say "LF 3 more BGs" doesn't mean i will get the best of the best and we just stomp people, THAT is ridiculous to believe. It takes skill, gears and builds to make sure that your premade is a good one that will work together. It does take gameplay for that to work. Stop trying to dumb down premade to something so stupid as "just get 3 ppl and u insta win! its ez 4head!"
A bad premade will lose to solo players, a good one probably won't. But a premade doesn't become gods the moment they group up before they queue. Thats not how it works, thats not how any of this works.

So having your build challenged and you're on the losing end, its undesirable. Well theres a saying that goes around, its called "git gud." Stop blaming other stuff for your loss and move on.

MurderMostFoul

Danklord wrote: »

First ima just say your first argument is really silly, so because something is easy, it ought to be implemented? Was simplifying the algorithm necessary? Was removing any kind of premade the only way to solve this, or the best one?

A solution being easy is a reason to try it first. That is standard in troubleshooting. Nothing silly there. And simplifying code is always desirable.

Danklord wrote: »

It's not messy, i mean sure it would completly go against how ESO works, but its def not messy or difficult.

Yeah, you kinda support my position there.

Danklord wrote: »

No premades do not win by default, thats wrong and you know it. Just because i say "LF 3 more BGs" doesn't mean i will get the best of the best and we just stomp people, THAT is ridiculous to believe. It takes skill, gears and builds to make sure that your premade is a good one that will work together.

I never said that. I said:

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up.

That inherent advantage came from being able to ensure that you have four strong players on your team with better coordination and communication. Obviously, not all premades are going to dominate, but it occurred frequently enough to render entire play sessions unenjoyable for solo queuers, and even drove some players away from BGs.

I'm done with this exchange though. [snip]. So this is no longer worth my time.

[edited for baiting]

Danklord

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Danklord wrote: »

First ima just say your first argument is really silly, so because something is easy, it ought to be implemented? Was simplifying the algorithm necessary? Was removing any kind of premade the only way to solve this, or the best one?

A solution being easy is a reason to try it first. That is standard in troubleshooting. Nothing silly there. And simplifying code is always desirable.

Danklord wrote: »

It's not messy, i mean sure it would completly go against how ESO works, but its def not messy or difficult.

Yeah, you kinda support my position there.

Danklord wrote: »

No premades do not win by default, thats wrong and you know it. Just because i say "LF 3 more BGs" doesn't mean i will get the best of the best and we just stomp people, THAT is ridiculous to believe. It takes skill, gears and builds to make sure that your premade is a good one that will work together.

I never said that. I said:

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The removal of premades has given everyone a more equal chance to win a match (lopsided or not).

Previously, you could have an inherent advantage by grouping up.

That inherent advantage came from being able to ensure that you have four strong players on your team with better coordination and communication. Obviously, not all premades are going to dominate, but it occurred frequently enough to render entire play sessions unenjoyable for solo queuers, and even drove some players away from BGs.

I'm done with this exchange though. [snip]. So this is no longer worth my time.

[edited for baiting]

If you don't wanna bother with the conversation thats fine, ima just reply to this tho because i feel like adressing the points.

Well ye but it has to be a decent solution that gives you result you want without hurting the community, which this change does. Easy is not a reason to try it. There has to be other reasons aswell. And for this one, there is no reason besides, listening to the ppl who complained. This is really just "oh ppl are complaining about premades, lets disable it and see what happens." I don't see how this was a well thought out solution. Because with these changes, you WANT to take your time, you don't wanna just toss out random easy solutions. And you can't even compare this to troubleshooting, because theres nothing wrong with how the game worked, it worked just fine, there was just a loud minority that didn't like it.

I don't support your position. You said it would be messy and unworkable, i told you the opposite. It would be simple and very workable. Boring as hell tho because again, the reason ppl pvp in specificly ESO and not other mmorpgs, is the unique builds you make and its combat system. But again, its not messy or unworkable. And it would help them balance the game even more. Hell to me, that solution would be the easier one, because you then don't need to screw over ppl with friends.

But they don't have an inherent advantage, thats my point. 4 ppl put together, don't have an advantage just like that. Thats incorrect. Again if i just find 3 other ppl, they could might aswell have been the randoms i would get anyway when queueing. Setting up builds, voice com etc etc, that gives inherent advantage.

Fine if you don't wanna discuss anymore, i don't force anyone.

Nick_Balza

I really enjoyed bg when there was an ability to form a group. I played bg with my gf and mate. We are not "pro" players and we were smashed many times. I understand that some people play better, they have better builds, better gear. Me, them and some people here are just about having fun with group activity, which became solo because some complaining about premade groups.
But if people are keeping communication during the game (even through chat) and not spoiling game experience during land grab or flag games, is it that bad? The whole power of "premade" group is in ability to talk and facing challenges together.
It was fun to play as a healer on bg, now there is no point in healers\tanks at all. People are running away from heals and healer becomes useless and easy target for everyone. Because random people have very different builds and playstyles. I was in team with 3 healers and it's absolute nonsense. People are leaving bg, when they see that current team can't handle pressure of opposite teams. I am not even saying that there is a lot of just toxic people, which are making efforts to troll or spoiling game experience.
Solo playstyle is incompatible with group activities and kills the whole point of it. It was called "group" for purpose.
It is also a reason of huge amount of obviously overpowered classes (templars and sorcs) on bg because each person can rely on himself only. Instead of having fun with other classes and roles, people understand that spamming jabs/fragments now more beneficial than try to win through tactics and strategy.

Berek_Bloodfang

again, not a premade... https://imgur.com/a/PvxJFsk

MurderMostFoul

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

again, not a premade... https://imgur.com/a/PvxJFsk

What is your point? Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches in general. They were removed to prevent a group of four players from being able to have a much higher probability of winning match after match, thereby making many other players' probably of winning lower, and rendering BGs unenjoyable for them.

I also believe that they changed the calculations use by matchmaking to form groups based on MMR. Not having to account for premades could really simplify the matchmaking code.

Kidgangster101

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

again, not a premade... https://imgur.com/a/PvxJFsk

What is your point? Premades were not removed to prevent lopsided matches in general. They were removed to prevent a group of four players from being able to have a much higher probability of winning match after match, thereby making many other players' probably of winning lower, and rendering BGs unenjoyable for them.

I also believe that they changed the calculations use by matchmaking to form groups based on MMR. Not having to account for premades could really simplify the matchmaking code.

Bro the problem is there is a lot of bad players that don't want to improve nothing more. The only reason you guys think premades dominated everything is because you can't tell the difference between a premade and a group of random people that actually play the game mode........ Idk maybe together like it was designed to be played?

They need to just give up on this solo only idea and admit it did nothing. BG was a group oriented mode, if you don't want to work as a group and try to win idk what to tell you. BG isn't fun if your super talented and always on the losing end because you get paired with all the feeders in the game mode. That in fact makes the one person trying on the team go what is the point of trying.

Also before you say go to ic or cyrodil to group play...... You can also go their to solo play as well so please don't try that argument.

You want a true solo mode ask for a 8-12 man free for all...... But I know why most people don't actually want that, maybe because they can't blame anyone else for losing? Just saying that is "solo" gameplay much like maelstrom arena is solo play.

MurderMostFoul

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The only reason you guys think premades dominated everything is because you can't tell the difference between a premade and a group of random people that actually play the game mode........ Idk maybe together like it was designed to be played?

You shouldn't assume things about people. I know the difference between premades and a matchmade group. You know a group is a premade when it's the same 4 people together over and over. In fact, from:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6308632#Comment_6308632

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

This is definitely a thing. I've been with three random and utterly steamrolled the other teams many times before. I'm not saying the matchmaking system is in good shape by any means, but you can't blame all of your lopsided defeats on premades.

I'd rather lose because i get paired with feeders, than lose multiple games in one play session because I get matched against the same highly tuned premade several times.

Sometimes you just have to overcome your weaker teammates.

Kidgangster101

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The only reason you guys think premades dominated everything is because you can't tell the difference between a premade and a group of random people that actually play the game mode........ Idk maybe together like it was designed to be played?

You shouldn't assume things about people. I know the difference between premades and a matchmade group. You know a group is a premade when it's the same 4 people together over and over. In fact, from:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6308632#Comment_6308632

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

This is definitely a thing. I've been with three random and utterly steamrolled the other teams many times before. I'm not saying the matchmaking system is in good shape by any means, but you can't blame all of your lopsided defeats on premades.

I'd rather lose because i get paired with feeders, than lose multiple games in one play session because I get matched against the same highly tuned premade several times.

Sometimes you just have to overcome your weaker teammates.

So carry bad players like they get carried when in group pve content is what your saying? That sounds more like a chore tbh than playing a virtual video game.

And there is a lot of groups that are classified as PREMADES but actually are not. And IF premades ruin it for everyone than that is on zos fault because this is a faulty que system with mmr. You need a rank system where you can go up and down depending on you winning/losing. Until that happens you will never separate players skill gap because there is a very big skill gap in this game. Hence why some people can. 1vX and why some people spam snipe in heavy armor with 40k hp

Hotdog_23

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The only reason you guys think premades dominated everything is because you can't tell the difference between a premade and a group of random people that actually play the game mode........ Idk maybe together like it was designed to be played?

You shouldn't assume things about people. I know the difference between premades and a matchmade group. You know a group is a premade when it's the same 4 people together over and over. In fact, from:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6308632#Comment_6308632

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

This is definitely a thing. I've been with three random and utterly steamrolled the other teams many times before. I'm not saying the matchmaking system is in good shape by any means, but you can't blame all of your lopsided defeats on premades.

I'd rather lose because i get paired with feeders, than lose multiple games in one play session because I get matched against the same highly tuned premade several times.

Sometimes you just have to overcome your weaker teammates.

So carry bad players like they get carried when in group pve content is what your saying? That sounds more like a chore tbh than playing a virtual video game.

:

It’s not a chore. Maybe the person is new to PVP or just there to get vigor or warhorn and never plan on returning. Possible they just had a bad game too. Maybe they are a healer only with very little kills too.

Nick_Balza

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

again, not a premade... https://imgur.com/a/PvxJFsk

Dude, if you wanna say that they are running as a premades, please, tell me how. Because today it is just impossible.

I am bad at PvP no matter how much experience I have. Sometimes I can lead the board because I am lucky or discovered how to bring team to victory through using weak points of enemy teams. Sometimes I am on the down of the board and didn't anything useful for my team.

My craftable/overland gear is bad against golden trial/PvP gear, which other people have.
I am not usually as a sorc or templar (which are dominating in 9 of 10 runs).
Sometimes I am not working in the group and getting in 1 vs 8 confrontation, what is dumb. Because 4 vs 8 dramatically boosts chances to win if I am working with other players in group.

Is that someone's problem that I am not doing things for winning? Nope. It's my problem and my responsibility. I am just a casual player. But I had more fun and more chances to win on BG, when I was playing with my mate and gf. They are newbies in ESO, but we were able to confront strong organized teams and grab the victory through cooperation. Even if we have average skill, average builds and average gear.