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How is Puncturing Sweeps’ healing calculated in PvP?
RiskyChalice863
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I’m wondering if anyone knows how Puncturing Sweeps’ healing works in PvP? Specifically, is the heal reduced by Battle Spirit, even though the initial damage was already reduced by Battle Spirit?
So, for example, let’s say you have a Puncturing Sweeps that does 2500 damage per hit. And let’s say you’re attacking someone whose resistances are the same as your penetration. The four hits from using Sweeps would have a total base tooltip of 10,000 damage. And let’s assume none of those crit. In PvP, that means this would do 5,000 damage. Puncturing Sweeps is supposed to heal for 40% of the damage taken. Does that mean that, in that scenario, the Templar would heal for 2,000 healing (i.e. 40% of 5,000 damage) OR does it mean that the Templar would heal for 1,000 healing (i.e. 40% of 5,000 damage, reduced by another 50% due to Battle Spirit)?
Relatedly, am I correct that the Puncturing Sweeps heal cannot crit? I’m pretty sure that’s true, and that the reasoning is that it heals for a percent of damage done and the damage can crit, so allowing the heal to crit would basically allow a double crit. Obviously, allowing the heal to essentially crit off of crit damage and not crit healing is not exactly 1-to-1, since you can buff crit damage specifically (in fact, Templars themselves have a crit damage buff) and in PvP people can limit crit damage with crit resistance. So, if the crit on Puncturing Sweeps’ heal works this way, it is probably a slight negative in PvP and a slight positive in PvE—which, to me, is roughly a wash, since I play both—but I’m just curious.
So, for example, let’s say you have a Puncturing Sweeps that does 2500 damage per hit. And let’s say you’re attacking someone whose resistances are the same as your penetration. The four hits from using Sweeps would have a total base tooltip of 10,000 damage. And let’s assume none of those crit. In PvP, that means this would do 5,000 damage. Puncturing Sweeps is supposed to heal for 40% of the damage taken. Does that mean that, in that scenario, the Templar would heal for 2,000 healing (i.e. 40% of 5,000 damage) OR does it mean that the Templar would heal for 1,000 healing (i.e. 40% of 5,000 damage, reduced by another 50% due to Battle Spirit)?
Relatedly, am I correct that the Puncturing Sweeps heal cannot crit? I’m pretty sure that’s true, and that the reasoning is that it heals for a percent of damage done and the damage can crit, so allowing the heal to crit would basically allow a double crit. Obviously, allowing the heal to essentially crit off of crit damage and not crit healing is not exactly 1-to-1, since you can buff crit damage specifically (in fact, Templars themselves have a crit damage buff) and in PvP people can limit crit damage with crit resistance. So, if the crit on Puncturing Sweeps’ heal works this way, it is probably a slight negative in PvP and a slight positive in PvE—which, to me, is roughly a wash, since I play both—but I’m just curious.
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Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure that some months/years ago, they changed those "heals based on damage done" to not suffer twice from Battle Spirit.
As for the healing being able to crit :
May 2016 :Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.
If you want to browse history a bit :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=1&search=Puncturing+Sweeps&title=PC/Mac&author=&cat=354&tags=&discussion_question=1&comment_answer=1&discussion_poll=1&discussion_d=1&comment_c=1&within=1+day&date=
But the best method is always to do some real-world testing using Combat Metrics, i can help with that if you are on PC/EU.Edited by Aznox on April 6, 2020 7:39AMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭Pretty sure that some months/years ago, they changed those "heals based on damage done" to not suffer twice from Battle Spirit.
As for the healing being able to crit :
May 2016 :Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.
If you want to browse history a bit :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=1&search=Puncturing+Sweeps&title=PC/Mac&author=&cat=354&tags=&discussion_question=1&comment_answer=1&discussion_poll=1&discussion_d=1&comment_c=1&within=1+day&date=
But the best method is always to do some real-world testing using Combat Metrics, i can help with that if you are on PC/EU.
Thanks! That’s helpful to know! Alas, I play on console, so I can’t use Combat Metrics—which can make questions about how things work much more difficult to test—particularly PvP-centric questions.
It seems like the issue regarding crits is definitively answered by what you found (as is what I thought it was). So thank you very much for that!
The double dipping issue remains kind of mysterious to me though. I’ve searched many times over the years in patch notes for the change that stopped Sweeps healing from double dipping, since I’ve seen people say that that change was made at some point. But I just have never been able to find it. And it makes me wonder whether the elimination of the double dipping is basically apocryphal.0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Found it :
August 2015 (time flies ...)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2200158#Comment_2200158Several abilities which have damage, damage shield, or healing components that scale off each other will no longer be hit multiple times by Battle Spirit’s reductions. This includes the following abilities:
Nightblade: Strife (and morphs), Soul Tether
Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Blazing Shield, Radiant Glory
Dragonknight: Inhale, Burning Embers
Sorcerer: Surge
Mages Guild: Degeneration
Restoration Staff: Healing WardAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club2 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭Found it :
August 2015 (time flies ...)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2200158#Comment_2200158Several abilities which have damage, damage shield, or healing components that scale off each other will no longer be hit multiple times by Battle Spirit’s reductions. This includes the following abilities:
Nightblade: Strife (and morphs), Soul Tether
Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Blazing Shield, Radiant Glory
Dragonknight: Inhale, Burning Embers
Sorcerer: Surge
Mages Guild: Degeneration
Restoration Staff: Healing Ward
Thank you so much! You have answered what, to me, was an age-old question. Not sure how I never found that, but I think maybe it’s that my searches always used the word “sweeps” not “sweep”.
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