Bash weaving is annoying

SidraWillowsky

Yes

MashmalloMan wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Learn how to play this game instead of asking nerds for everything ffs

Imma out myself for the complete hypocrite that I am (I fully utilize and support LA weaving...) and argue that bash weaving shouldn't be considered a valid way to play the game. Shouldn't bashing be exhausting? It's absurd that in this game you can pretty much bash indefinitely as a stam character (in the PTS I cannot spend my stam down enough quickly enough to ever run out with the new regen buffs) and get a sht ton of damage from it. Since they're pushing hard for off balance it would make more sense for bashing to do no damage at all but instead set an enemy off balance.

It's such a stupid mechanic. And yeah, part of it is that I'm too lazy or worn out or whatever to repeat the process of learning LA weaving again for bash weaving, especially since I main a magicka DD and tend to stay out of bash range of enemies anyway.

To be fair, 2 inputs that follow a delay per second (light -> skill -> delay) is much easier to do than 3 inputs with no delay(light - skill - bash). There is almost a wave like rhythm for light attack weaving, where as adding bash weaving into the mix makes for constant button pressing. For controller players with 4 inputs, this is even more unintuitive.

I know it feels hypocritcal, but it shouldn't because of how much added pressure this adds to a rotation. Not to mention the other cons of bash weaving that light attack weaving doesn't have.

• Stamina cost.
• Melee range.
• Aready has a primary function of interupting a target.
• Does more damage than a light attack on pts which feels counter intuitive.
• Console/controller players do not have a dedicated button for bash, it's attached to block + light attack, cutting off stamina regeneration and slowing down movement speed every second. This also equates to 4 inputs/second instead of 2 inputs/second for just dps.

Console players have enough trouble to deal with having 0 add-ons to help them with buff/debuff timers and 0 boss mechanic notifcations. The nerf/buff to light attacks just pushes end game dps into bash weaving while hurting lower dps. The changes increase APM. It's sad enough that mag/ranged dps are forced into melee range for stacking and minor force (barbed trap), couple that with requiring bash weaving and the dps gap has now become larger than it ever was before.

Even if you don't agree with light attack weaving, the direction ZOS is taking is to offer reliable alternatives, while decreasing the potency and necessity of light attack weaving. The current itteration of changes fails to meet that in a multitude of ways, bash weaving is one of their oversights.

Excellent points all around, thanks

I'm PC/NA but I play on a controller, which may be part of the reason why this is causing so much grief for me. There isn't really a decent way of remapping my buttons either- anything I can think of would dramatically change everything else.

Ugh. I guess I just need to start getting used to the idea that I'm not going to be one of the top DDs in my raid groups any longer. Tiny violin, I know, but it's the result of hard work getting good at LA weaving. I just don't have it in me to figure out the utter ridiculousness that is bash weaving.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Yes

Remove the damage from Bash, take it off the GCD and add fatigue to it.

- no longer needed for DPS rotation... APM decrease
- keeps usage as interrupt, anim cancel
- punishes people who try to spam it


Being able to LA/HA & Skill & Bash instantly is poorly implemented game design for far too long. This is one of those things that is actually very easy to macro, and many people do.

MashmalloMan

Yes

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

Remove the damage from Bash, take it off the GCD and add fatigue to it.

- no longer needed for DPS rotation... APM decrease
- keeps usage as interrupt, anim cancel
- punishes people who try to spam it


Being able to LA/HA & Skill & Bash instantly is poorly implemented game design for far too long. This is one of those things that is actually very easy to macro, and many people do.

Yep. Also, if one of the stated goals for adding cast times to ultimates was to lower burst potential, this change would help the case that cast times should be removed.

If you looked at the game a year ago, you could light attack -> onslaught -> bash. This was a part of the reason for cast times. The best players used this to output a lot of burst in pvp.

Look at the game today. If bash does very little damage and changes to focus on its primary function while u25 block changes have completely gutted block cancelling, that entire point for cast times on ultimates is no longer valid.

itsfatbass

Yes

The damage from bash needs severely nerfed.

ecru

Yes but I like the added DPS but if it was put else where I would prefer this

Anhedonie wrote: »

I mean it's just 5k dps

"just 5k dps" means I have to bash weave in every trial. I don't want to do that. Abilities work poorly enough as it is.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Yes

itsfatbass wrote: »

The damage from bash needs severely nerfed.

I think players would accept bash doing no damage easier than nerfing it as long as they are compensated somehow.

Aedaryl

Yes

amir412 wrote: »

I'm just speechless...
All these casuals wants to nerf every gameplay that their low apm brain cant handle.
You guys keep amaze me every time.

The beauty of ESO combat is it's fast phased,
If you cant handle it, just keep playing or move to a tab targeting game like wow.

It's called "beauty of combat" when you main Stam and can benefit from it.

It's pretty unbalanced when you play mag without access to it.

amir412

No

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

I'm just speechless...
All these casuals wants to nerf every gameplay that their low apm brain cant handle.
You guys keep amaze me every time.

The beauty of ESO combat is it's fast phased,
If you cant handle it, just keep playing or move to a tab targeting game like wow.

It's called "beauty of combat" when you main Stam and can benefit from it.

It's pretty unbalanced when you play mag without access to it.

Stam doesnt have access to 70% of the class's skills, not even talking about a decent spammable outside dizzy/jabs/SA.
FFS i use power slam to maintain that old bash cancel, and still at big disadvantage.
Cant have it all.

SidraWillowsky

Yes

GC0 wrote: »

imagine being one of those people that struggle to find two brain cells to dedicate to bashing :^)

Imagine being someone who thinks ESO requires any brain cells at all :^)

Try bash weaving on a controller and get back to us.

Aedaryl

Yes

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

I'm just speechless...
All these casuals wants to nerf every gameplay that their low apm brain cant handle.
You guys keep amaze me every time.

The beauty of ESO combat is it's fast phased,
If you cant handle it, just keep playing or move to a tab targeting game like wow.

It's called "beauty of combat" when you main Stam and can benefit from it.

It's pretty unbalanced when you play mag without access to it.

Stam doesnt have access to 70% of the class's skills, not even talking about a decent spammable outside dizzy/jabs/SA.
FFS i use power slam to maintain that old bash cancel, and still at big disadvantage.
Cant have it all.

Can't have it all ?

Did you forgot that stamina is dominating in this meta by going almost full damage while keeping an easy sustain when some magclasses don't even exist as a damage class ?

itsfatbass

Yes

The damage from bash needs severely nerfed.

amir412 wrote: »

I'm just speechless...
All these casuals wants to nerf every gameplay that their low apm brain cant handle.
You guys keep amaze me every time.

The beauty of ESO combat is it's fast phased,
If you cant handle it, just keep playing or move to a tab targeting game like wow.

I am far from a casual. I can break 90k DPS in the current patch and have stamina, magicka variants alike. And I am saying the damage from bash needs nerfed or entirely removed.

Galarthor

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I bash weave, it's extra DPS, but it's annoying to do and would rather not do it and have the added DPS else where, like.. Light Attacks..

I agree. However, DPS is not the only thing where bash weaving is useful. Some animations are really slow and bash weaving them can speed them up - for example Hardned Ward. These other circumstances will have to be taken into account (e.g. by speed up the animations) when removing bash weaving.

ChimpyChumpy

Yes

Damn, didn't even know bash weaving was a thing . . . guess my 60k dps on an raid dummy is really missing out. When do you even do it in a rotation?

ZeroXFF

Yes

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

Damn, didn't even know bash weaving was a thing . . . guess my 60k dps on an raid dummy is really missing out. When do you even do it in a rotation?

Right after a skill. You cancel the skill animation with it the same way you cancel the LA animation with a skill.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

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Jodynn

Yes

Galarthor wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

I bash weave, it's extra DPS, but it's annoying to do and would rather not do it and have the added DPS else where, like.. Light Attacks..

I agree. However, DPS is not the only thing where bash weaving is useful. Some animations are really slow and bash weaving them can speed them up - for example Hardned Ward. These other circumstances will have to be taken into account (e.g. by speed up the animations) when removing bash weaving.

Not wanting to take it away, just reduce the damage to negligible and put somewhere else like LA to reduce some of the pain points in making them so weak.

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

imagine being one of those people that struggle to find two brain cells to dedicate to bashing :^)

Imagine being someone who thinks ESO requires any brain cells at all :^)

Try bash weaving on a controller and get back to us.

Yeah it's a pita to bash weave on a controller, just like synergies on a controller.

InaMoonlight

No

Bah nevermind.

MaxJrFTW

No

Here go the casuals again, ruining it for people that know how to play...

SidraWillowsky

Yes

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Here go the casuals again, ruining it for people that know how to play...

I want to know the DPS numbers that people spewing this can pull on the 21 mil. Please share if you voted No to this and are complaining about "casuals"

DivineFirstYOLO

No

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Here go the casuals again, ruining it for people that know how to play...

I want to know the DPS numbers that people spewing this can pull on the 21 mil. Please share if you voted No to this and are complaining about "casuals"

2k+ on a magicka character, nice & free dps.

L_Nici

Actually I like it a lot on my stamina chars, since they can afford the cost of blockbash, on magicka Chars its horrible, you are out of Stam in no time

Galarthor

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Not wanting to take it away, just reduce the damage to negligible and put somewhere else like LA to reduce some of the pain points in making them so weak.

Please take it away entirely. There is no real reason to keep it around at that point. Nobody enjoy drawn out animations in-combat and if you only adjust the damage while not addressing defensive abilities also using / requiring it then you will create imbalance. Honestly, at that point, why have people smash an additional button every second? It just hurts the joints, costs energy, and produces almost no benefit. Hence, remove it!

universal_wrath

It is annoying, but it us not so practical. As magicka DD, you uave to be in melee eange to do it, makes vunerable to any king of attack boss does. It is a sustain toll on stam DDs as well since it uses their main resource pool. It us hard to do, but it is an advanced mechanic or technique or whatever you want to call it like animation canceling. It raises the skill cap which is ok. I'm not happy about it because it looks stupid, but if it works, it works.

darthgummibear_ESO

Yes

The fact that this is even a thing is completely ludicrous.

Blynjubitr

Yes

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Here go the casuals again, ruining it for people that know how to play...

What is there to know exactly ? Second action cancels first action. Cannot be more simple. I can bash cancel all day and add 2-3or 5k dps to my rotation on dummy but why ? Instead buff class spamables, buff skills and let utility be utility not dps.

itsfatbass

Yes

Blynjubitr wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Here go the casuals again, ruining it for people that know how to play...

What is there to know exactly ? Second action cancels first action. Cannot be more simple. I can bash cancel all day and add 2-3or 5k dps to my rotation on dummy but why ? Instead buff class spamables, buff skills and let utility be utility not dps.

Exactly. Like I mentioned before, MOST of the folks voting Yes here, myself included, are the very opposite of "casuals". The casuals couldnt care less about bash weaving and aren't even on the forums to begin with!

Drdeath20

Yes but I like the added DPS

Its not mandatory, its reward is minor, it adds more complexity to a rotation and if done incorrectly can be detrimental to a parse.

The setup is perfect. Change my mind

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

The single worst ESO mechanic at the moment. It's just cancerous. No one seems to grasp that these changes are just transitioning us to a meta where bash weaving will be enforced, rather than just an extra bit of DPS on the top.

Really ? I thought bashing is ****. First because it doesn't proc sets that use to proc from Light Attacks.
And second because it was really ruined after the change to enchantment that broke the Shieldplay enchant into two versions - one for block cost reduction and one for bash cost reduction.

Drdeath20

Yes but I like the added DPS

The entire replay value for end game pve is to have something to keep getting better at. Why would we simplify the game when 99.x% of it does not require such precision?

Blynjubitr

Yes

Drdeath20 wrote: »

The entire replay value for end game pve is to have something to keep getting better at. Why would we simplify the game when 99.x% of it does not require such precision?

Well your "keeping getting better" mechanic takes 10 minutes to learn and implement into your rotation. Animation cancel in general is not as hard as people make it to be, specially in ESO.

Problem i am having here(and i think other people also) why bash ? It is so lame ! Why does maarselok even work with a mechanic that is lame as bashing ? Idk about you but la-skill-bash kinda makes me feel lame.