New Nightblade Class Identity

1mirg

Deathlord92 wrote: »

No I like playing a rogue I’m not a warrior

well, i hate to be the barer of bad news but that type of playstyle in ESO is effectively dead. They've added tons of things to prevent that type of playstyle for both PvP and PvE. Also they've neutered a load of the Nightblades skills to the point of them being outright useless. Also cloak has been broken for a long time now and they've yet to even address there being an issue with it. They've also been effectively recreating the Nightblades arsenal/ toolkit so that everyone would have access to it, killing any remaining class identity it had left with the 3 of the passives for the new Vampire Rework giving everyone access to their "sneak" playstyle.

So yeah. Honestly, if you want to play the "rogue" type of playstyle then I think it's best to just find another game. I've been here since beta and the development team seems to only want to nerf that type of playstyle into the ground and keep it there.

Tommy_The_Gun

1mirg wrote: »

So yeah. Honestly, if you want to play the "rogue" type of playstyle then I think it's best to just find another game.

actosh

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Can I have a free class change token ? All my achievements, accomplishments, and fully levelled skills (Undaunted, Crafting, Guild, Psijic, world, base game / all chapters / dlc story quests are there... and it is useless now....

All NBs at this point should receive such possibility. At least the ones whose 1st character crated was a NB or characters with "most hours" playtime.

Rip me

same here. Token pls ^^

Lorkhan

Zos dont care about nbs, dont u realize it yet? Try out other classes. You can lvl up one rly fast, Double xp next days. Dk is easy mode, i can tell. I have all classes maxed out, nb is the weakest one, no doubt.

SshadowSscale

Nightblade identity is a mule after vamp changes......

OrderoftheDarkness

I think the rouge style should exist. I just imagine how awesome Nb can be in the Bloody Warrior or Wizard archetype, for example reworked Lifesteal + Dual Wield(or another weapon) or magStealer and etc. Probably to keep the Rouge style, devs need a redesign Dark Cloak (+changing the animation, adding Major Lifesteal instead of Minor protection, adding Radius, adding new properties for Lifesteal, which I described on the first page, changing the cost of a spell on health), insignificant passives and some insignificant active skills, so that the Rouge style does not get out of control and got a small buff through modified passives.

Suligost wrote: »

Some of new vampire skill line matches my new idea of NB but okay, im not gonna insult anybody...

Just want to say on top that they gonna have hell with nerfing and buffing it over and over again since everyone will have access to it.

Also too much magicka, magicka players dont stack health besides, psijic already has masss CC, NB has his crappy CC and hypnosis is another crappy CC for magicka.

I mean im not crying but kinda dissapointed with outcome and as for nightblade... well how I said REWOOOOOOOOORK (and bye bye cloak defenders).

I just looked at the new Vampire it's really something impressive, the animation is amazing. In my opinion, if Devs combine Life steal + the cost of spells from health, we get a very cool kit for Nbs. Also, using spells whose cost is health for Rouge can be dangerous, so it can refuse to do so and and it won't get out of control.

If Devs could do this and leave the Lifesteal effect with an AoE option, with numbers adjustments so that it doesn't become overpowered it could open up a new platform for Healersblade, which in turn would become particularly identical. It would also be a buff for the Undaunted guild and Wardens(they are Jacks of all trades) that Minor Lifesteal can use. In the case of Nb, it could be Major Lifesteal.

Tommy_The_Gun

Elder Scrolls Online - Nightblade class main theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFdhSj-xqdA

To me this song/melody is about sitting alone, in an empty dark room, looking at one candle and remembering my best moments, things that I have enjoyed, that have passed and will never come back..
It is about looking at all my accomplishments... and then.. finally (at 1:25)... pass away... into nothingness...

Czekoludek

Suligost wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The problem is that non-nb players who have little to no idea how invisibility works and they are like, yes, yes, give it to every one, give it to everyone ! ! ! ! ...

Let me tell you this:
You... you have... no.. in your worst nightmares you have never ever thought of what is about to come. All those new broken class gank combos that are about to come with this new invisibility passive ?

You will beg on your knees for ZOS to remove this.

All those gangs dropping out of invisibility ults/skill combos while on new cold blood skill and on top of that with titanbron set xD

I just bought Bannerlord, enjoy the day

Me too, it's harvesting season
If they don't fix performance and the nightblade class this chapter will be probably my last. As nb main I had enough

Feizao

I say it could use a rework.
I can see an emphasis on illusion for Shadow tree: summon shade = a 'Grace Gloom' version of me.
More Lifesteal for Siphoning. Leeching strikes can act like the damage health poisons, Stam/Mag morph steals players respective resource to increase your own (too much?).
Assassination focus on of course dmg, but also movement. Can be movement speed or that one skill NPC's use to jump over me as if evading..

Thinking outloud..
Some NB passives are centered around cloak, which doesn't function properly
Hidden refresh is dumb synergy imo
Major berserk after ive killed seems to be a waste. If i could effectively kill another target (pvp) within 5 seconds this skill (or whatever build im using) would be called to nerf.
Swallow soul is a 'spammable' with a 10 sec duration healing every 2 sec. i find the long duration on a skill being refreshed frequently to be counter intuitive. Instead Heal every 1sec for 5 sec?

martinhpb16_ESO

Gilvoth wrote: »

looks like the main goal of this thread is asking the devs to delete invisibility skill, and cloak.
i hope that NEVER happens.
i love stealth playstyle, if you dont like stealth play style then please play another class instead of destroying the skill cloak and stealth for those of us that love cloak and invisibility and stealth.
cloak is fine, leave it alone.

This, I love the solo, stealth fast moving style of this class.

If I wanted something else i would play something else

vilio11

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think Nbs could have great potential to be bloody warrior and bloody mage with redesigned mechanics and changing Lifesteal and adding Major Lifesteal as an identity. But you see what the problem is people like to kill, through ganking style, so you see such a large number of magsorcs. As for the changes in Nbs, this could pave the way for new styles and a new kind of gameplay that could be a cross-solution to all kinds of resistances and damage reductions. It could also make it possible for Nbs to be tanky, but only in its own guise and with its own uniqueness.

this is great idea because this class has the best chance to be magicka mele class. but zos do not want that playstyle.

Doczy

there must be only 2 offensive playstyle for nightblade.

1- invisible assassin

2- dot and debuff based trickster


so for invisible assassin zos must fix cloak and rework all skills.

and for trickster needs buff to dot damage. and rework all skills too

Faded

Or they could take the cast times off NB ultimates, buff magblade's melee-range skills, and let nightblades be nightblades.

Crazy idea, I know.

ealdwin

Faded wrote: »

Or they could take the cast times off NB ultimates, buff magblade's melee-range skills, and let nightblades be nightblades.

Crazy idea, I know.

Nah, they can't let classes actually have identities supported by strong unique abilities that no one cares if they're powerful because every class has its own powerful abilities. That nonsense won't be tolerated here!
/s

Vermintide

Ehh.

Honestly by this point I'm starting to enjoy the fact Magicka nightblade is such a garbage heap, because then it's more of a flex to top the scoreboard in a BG on one.

Why you would want cloak removed is beyond me- Just because ZOS doesn't know how to balance it, what makes you think they'd be any better at balancing without it? We already have dark cloak and it sucks. Magcro is already essentially the same thing as what a non-cloak NB should be (defensive buff skills, same type of delayed burst window), and guess what. That sucks too.

What they need to do with NB is get rid of the awful cast times and travel times on all the dodgeable projectile skills. The way half your attacks just fail to land is the classes' main and most major crippling flaw. If assassin's will or impale were capable of hitting a target with any degree of reliability it would make a huge difference.

Then they need to buff our self HOTs back up to a level where they are capable of actually mattering- A nightblade should be rewarded for building fully into crazy damage, because damage = healing. It still works in PVE, which is why the class is so great for stuff like vMA, just not in PVP. The class shouldn't be reliant on resto staffs just to have access to reliable healing when half it's skills are clearly designed to have healing built in. Something has gone hugely wrong in the design process there.

It's magblades who need help, but honestly they don't need a LOT of help- They just need their skills to actually work. Stamblades seem to be doing just fine as far as I can tell- There's just a lot of terrible players trying to make Skyrim stealth archers. A well played Stamblade can still rack up crazy killcounts.

Tommy_The_Gun

Vermintide wrote: »

It's magblades who need help, but honestly they don't need a LOT of help- They just need their skills to actually work. Stamblades seem to be doing just fine as far as I can tell- There's just a lot of terrible players trying to make Skyrim stealth archers. A well played Stamblade can still rack up crazy killcounts.

Imho. the only reason stam nb is in a better spot is because we have a lot of weapon / guild / world stamina based abilities to use, instead of our class skills. As far as I can tell, I only use literately ONE nb skill on my build. And that is in PvP....

That one skill... if ZOS nerfs it or changes it or removes it - I am switching to Necro or Warden vamp.

Vermintide

Toning down necro and warden would act as an indirect buff to all other classes, it's worth noting, and would considerably lessen the plight of nightblades.

I never really struggle with sorcs, templars, or DKs. Sometimes I get caught in those stupid jabs, sometimes I get caught by that stupid leap, sometimes Sorcs just make me unfathomably angry by simply existing. But I can't say they actually feel unfair to fight.

Necros and wardens, of the stam variety, are very much the problem right now.

Ippokrates

Yeah, I also think this is the source of problems: people messing ESO with Skyrim and expecting to be stealth god one-shot killah. Well, in MMORPG things will never work this way.

I have my share in NB gameplay and must say I really enjoyed solo content, especially TG & DB campaings. And no, I don't think that vamp could replace NB in these tasks. Now, NB is my ALT and I run him in Kvatch Gladiator, always targeting weakest link with Grim Focus, Killer's Blade, Snipe & Crossbow in both PvE & PvP (BG + Cyro) and I must say, it is possibile the closest assassin-alike experience I can have in MMORPG. And it feels really good, almost like hunting, when you are looking for prey & once you find it, wounded without resources and involved with fight with someone else, you are pushing this buttons to give him a taste of this sweet, sweet burst damage (especially with Cloak giving 100% crit chance)

The real issue with NB is IMHO somewhere else. There is very limited place for real NB in group content. At least when it comes to the unique gameplay, because c'mon, NB Tank is a heresy (make him at least kiting bosses not working as a pin-down) XD

In TES Arena, Daggerfall & Oblivion, NB class works mainly as a infiltrator or scout, exploring danger areas with help of thief & magic skills (only Morrowind and now ESO emphasized its assassin capabilities). So as long as group content (dungeon & trials) would be based stricly on the same templates, with the same enemies & chests in the same places, there is no place for a thief-alike NB, because in those condition team needs only fighting & healing capable members.

Now imagine a random dung with few ways to get in, but some of those ways are spiked with traps & bosses, while others are clear and blocked only by some petty mobs... Which way would you prefer & who can make better & faster recon than NB?

olsborg

The main problem for a stamblade-perspective imo:
The burst is extremely easy to avoid, assassin will is extremely telegraphed to the victim and a simple dodgeroll or block will negate all or most of its damage. Incapacitating strike is the same.

The lack of a class heal, and no you cant consider leeching strikes or the heal from assassin will or mark target because you cant use these while being on the defence.
Sure there is dark cloak, but that takes away the entire class identity wich is invisibility...if you dont have that you're better off just playing a stamden or a stamcro because the burst you set up is basically impossible to avoid and they have vastly better healing.

And why on earth did they give soul siphon, wich is a 100% defensive heal ulti a cast time, imagine having a cast time on restoration staff ulti, yea it would be useless, and it is atm.

/rant

Epilog

The identity of NB is fine. And they would never remove the iconic archetype of stealthy assassin. And I also think they should not. But of course the NB could be so much more:

- stealthy assassin
- blood mage/brawler (could do alot more with health costs and stuff)
- dark templar (looking at AoC)
- leech healer (looking at old TSW)
- shadow trickster (to buff, bolster)

They should not remove invisibility but make the concept better. Maybe use self synergies and certain trigger conditions on other skills to get low invis frames so that chaining it actually needs player skill and combos instead of spamming one skill. And if they combine that with a confusion window on NPCs and skills that have different effect depending on invis or not, there would be actually a use in PVE, too. Even a confusion tank would be possible.

Same thing for the other trees. Siphoning could feel a lot more leechy, needing enemy targets to heal or steal buffs and have an aggressive healing style. Shadow could feel more group bolstering, position based, maybe line of sight breaking (in pvp and pve).

The current NB identity is fine.It has so many cool possibilities! They just need to use them!

master_vanargand

Nightblade is on the right track now in PvP.
I use DW and Bow in Stamina Nightblade in PvP, but the only Weapon Skill I use is Poison Injection.
Probably I'm the only Nightblade to use Power Extraction in PvP.

[My wish]
Change Drain Power's Major Brutality and Major Sorcery to Siphoning Strikes.
Change Minor Cowardice of Power Extraction to Drain Power.
Adds an effect to Power Extraction that "the more enemies hit, the more damage Power Extraction do".
(It's like the Titanic Cleave of the Master Weapon set for two-handed skill.)

That's all I want.
If that wish comes true, I'm not dissatisfied with Nightblade.

Vanos444

Zos, should separate PvE and PvP abilities from game.
Cloak ability, are useful for PvP content but when it comes to PvE it's considered useless to a large degree... I mean, the whole invisibility is useless for a PvE content in general.

They need to give a bonus damage for the ultimate skill while using stealth to make them useful. Also, they need to make a stamina version of cloak as well and remove that healing morph of cloak.
Instead, they could make swallow soul in the siphoning tree, as a spammable healing ability on single targets.

Ambush needs an overhaul...it's buggy as in beta stages. Also, it can replace cloak for the user, as the user will be in cloak state as soon as they use the skill on a target.
This will give gameplay variety to players and
they will start using the skill more often, provided the ultimate skill soul harvest and it's morph gets a boon while in stealth like the damage is done by a 200%.

Lastly, suprise attack needs to be in the Assassination skill tree, while Mirage needs to go to shadow skill tree..

To counter it, is by slotting magelight. It will reduce damage from stealth attack by 200%, it also, regenerates magik or stamina continuesly by 5%. A toggable skill.


Edit: veil if blades ultimate, shouldn't be a ground ultimate. It should follow the user...
Also, it does physical damage to its targets while it's morph does magicka damage..
And the radius as increased.
The animation would produce a 1000 blades from below the surface to target, while the user spreads it's arm sideways to drop it's weapons down to initiate the skill. ( Mostly pre-made knives from the oblivion)

It's a useful DPS skill for AoE situations. So, the Ult cost will be 50 or even less provided the number of mobs it hits like the ultimate gets filled up quickly with more targets around.

Soul tether, should do zero damage but provide healing on targets and if more mobs are around it stuns them and heals the rest of the party by 200%,
while it's morph, makes the user resistant to damage, knockbacks, stuns and cleanses the user from dot damage. It does stun its targets..it's duration is increased if more mobs are around...it scales on health resources..

Edit2:
Siphoning attacks: a toggable skill. It increases the user stamina or magicka recovery by 5% ( morph).
It also, coverts the physical damage weapon like 2 handed swords, bows into magicka weapon and staffs into stamina weapons.
This effect is permenant as long as the skill is slotted in any bar for its a toggable ability..
And regain resources while hit targets for x%.
Edit3:
With that the psijic skill tree that elemental weapons will make the 2 handed weapon and it's skills use magicka instead of stamina, basically converting the physical weapon and it's abilities into magicka likewise it's morph does the same for staff weapons..
This skill is also toggable.

Also, this skill will be in the first slot of the skill tree...like as soon as you join the psijic order, you get imbue weapons in your list..
The imbue weapon just overhaul your physical weapon into magical without overhauling the ability cost of the physcial weapons. It's more does the overhaul of its abilities as well.
So, a mage CAN use a Bow or 2 handed weapon and still kill targets with huge DPS numbers likewise a Warrior can use a staff as a 2 handed weapon and destroy their enemies... ( The disease damage will get converted to magicka and the flame/frost/lightning will get converted to poison/physcial/disease damage

Like
Flame = Poison,
Frost = Physical,
Lighting = disease)

master_vanargand

Vanos444 wrote: »

Lastly, suprise attack needs to be in the Assassination skill tree, while Mirage needs to go to shadow skill tree..

It just nerf the Nightblade.
Surprise Attack must be Shadow.
Shadow is hard to understand, but they bring great benefits to PvP and PvE.

Mayrael

I love how for over the year nothing changed. Templars and sorcs got reworked a bit. Every class gets some adjustments but NB's recieve only nerfs and wierd changes.

Class lost it's identity completly both stam and magicka versions (stamina at least has better options in generic skill lines while magcika is doomed to its subpar class skills.

Nighblade has worst execute that nobody uses, mass hysteria is still far behind turn evil, crystal frags > assasins will, ambush/lotus fan has so slow animation that its easier to simply sprint after your target than try to use gapcloser, shadow image < streak (which is shadow image, fear and aoe spamable in one) or BoL (which is shadow image, wings, and RAT in one) and on top of it recent changes to invisibility made cloak completly unreliable in close distance.

Currently, the class is in such a bad state that it doesn't even have a single skill that doesn't have a better equivalent in generic trees or in another class arsenal. NB has nothing that other classes don't do better.

giantpixie

I always wanted nightblade to be able to apply minor stamina steal it always seemed fitting to me that they could siphon energy from there enemies and it would be unique to them

Araneae6537

No thank you. I created my nightblades as ranger or assassin type characters, characters of stealth and speed and shadow — not blood mages. My mag blade rip life essence from her enemies — she is not spilling her own.

I’m all for reverting nerfs to core classes, but not making them over into something else. Besides, abilities using one’s own life force are already plenty in necromancer.

Destai

I remember awhile ago ZOS posted a blog entry about the power fantasy behind each class. I feel like honing in on a power fantasy for each class is challenging - partly because each class can fulfill four roles. The power fantasy behind a class has to make sense between being a tank, stam dps, mag dps, and healer. That's challenging for the developers and players alike.

With nightblade, I feel like the general vision of it was a cross between a shadowy assassin and a bloodmage. Lots of lifestealing and near-illusion tactics. They were supposed to be a dark class, but that got challenged when necromancer dropped and then even the vampire redo. Personally, the necromancer feels way different and seems like a different fantasy entirely - they're a mix of a deathknight, minion master, and some weird dark healer/shaman.

Faded

Destai wrote: »

Personally, the necromancer feels way different and seems like a different fantasy entirely - they're a mix of a deathknight, minion master, and some weird dark healer/shaman.

A friend told me stamina necromancer feels like a battlemage, something people have been requesting for years.

Ironic it would be the stamina spec, but we're long past pretending stamina = warrior and magicka = mage. Stamina = mage that gets to use weapons.

Doczy

guild skills ruining class fantasies.

Ippokrates

Doczy wrote: »

guild skills ruining class fantasies.

Au contaire, they are opening new layers to your characters. FG train you as a hunter, MG & PO feels like an academic background and TG & DB are just great addition to any stealthy character.

True, Undaunted might feels little weird, as it lack certain... integrity. But you can count it as a veteran experience