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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Actions Per Minute
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
You do understand that people will still weave and try to keep up high APM regardless of if this change goes through or not? The only difference is that the ceiling has been lowered to a point that some feel is irredeemable. What fun is it to invest time playing if it doesnt matter if im sloppy on my weaving and well rotation in general. Sure fun is a subjective term but people do not tend to stick around a VG for long once the challenge is gone.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭haploeb14_ESO wrote: »How do you Know what your APM is?
What matters is your dps. If you are pulling top numbers you have a high APM butleepalmer95 wrote: »naturebased wrote: »Probably alcast and xynode and fengrush and players like that, maybe top 1 or 2%
Also, APM is kind if irrelevant. I could spam abilities and clicks for over 9000 APM but only about 10 of those would register due to lag and desyncs.
When talking APM it is only the actions that register. That is all that matters so the example of doing 9000 clicks per minute is not 9000 APM.
And yes, top players like Alcast raiding on top teams do have the higher APM. Players that raid with groups clearing the hardest content in an MMORPG tend to have the highest APM. This is not something specific to ESO. It is just that ESO requires a much higher skill level to play at the top levels of the game.
what about pvp? Or it depends on your class, build etc...
A snipeblade is gonna have low apm, a magplar will hold block and occasionally heal or someone will use mistform for 4s. Apm isn't a useful.
But yeah people who are good at the game will atleast use a skill and light attack, so 120 apm atleast. But its not hard.
For the sniper, they work off burst. For the magplar example, it is also irrelevant as we are not even talking about DPS.
As for 120 APM, if that was not hard we would not have the skill gap we have now. There are no two ways about it.1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m sure ZoS has compared how many players are actually completing content and are trying to make it more enticing for players with lower APM (for whatever reason, hardware, location, skill, etc.).
Makes sense if they want to sell content to players to make it more reasonable (and less epeen comparing) to achieve. I have never done a vet DLC because I am ashamed of my DPS as it is when compared to what it should be as I’m told by better players.6 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭You can see roughly how you compare to others if you use eso logs... there is a tab that has casts-per-minute... I think this only counts attacks... so your movement/camera/bar swap isn’t included but it should give you a rough idea how many buttons you are pressing compared to others at least.
But as others have mentioned, actions per minute is not as important in eso as other games due to GCD.1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I’m sure ZoS has compared how many players are actually completing content and are trying to make it more enticing for players with lower APM (for whatever reason, hardware, location, skill, etc.).
Makes sense if they want to sell content to players to make it more reasonable (and less epeen comparing) to achieve. I have never done a vet DLC because I am ashamed of my DPS as it is when compared to what it should be as I’m told by better players.
How can doing less damage, over all, make doing vet content easier? Vet content would need to be nerfed. Maybe that is the plan moving forward.
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kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IndianaJames7 wrote: »You can see roughly how you compare to others if you use eso logs... there is a tab that has casts-per-minute... I think this only counts attacks... so your movement/camera/bar swap isn’t included but it should give you a rough idea how many buttons you are pressing compared to others at least.
But as others have mentioned, actions per minute is not as important in eso as other games due to GCD.
I haven’t messed with the eso logs yet. Relatively new to playing on PC, I’m not even sure where to set that up. Look into it later for sure.
I think everyone that’s ever played is well aware of the global cool downs, even if they don’t necessarily know it by that name.
You can pull the trigger fast as you can, but only one light attack per second is gonna go off. Same with skills.
If you’re doing that really fast and perfect, your looking at 120 APM right? But to then also block cancel the skill animation after just cancelling the light attack animation with a skill....you’re getting into super sweaty territory that might maybe bump you up to 180 APM...still not over 200.
As several have noted by now, this APM thing, may not be what they really need to look into. Or maybe their numbers are off? It would seem like they need to be a bit closer than what the question asked.
I can’t really see potions, synergies, ultimates, etc. adding that many actions per minute to make a significant difference; perhaps unless a person doesn’t use them at all maybe?
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mague✭✭✭✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »[*] When playing our game, do you play at a Low (Under 100), Medium (100-200), or High (200+) Actions Per Minute? (Note this includes movement and other non-combat actions, not just ability presses). Do you ever feel penalized for playing as one of these with the new paradigm? Do you enjoy playing at your experienced APM?
This question in the PTS feedback thread has me wondering a little bit. I play with a controller, not keyboard mouse so can’t really figure it out. It about makes my brain explode trying to move about Tamriel with “WASD” and panning the camera with mouse. I don’t even know what buttons to press to jump, or block, or dodge roll, use a potion, and most sadly what fires abilities off.
As they wrote, its not just about ability presses. APM includes also recognizing red, multiple red, special attacks from mobs. It includes watching group bars or looking for chests while in combat. It includes watching environment ands not fall of a bridge.
If you see special attack overland or red, do you care ? Do you block ? Or do you ignore it for the sake of a lower APM.
I am a rather low APM on buttons, but i always block or dodge. Even if i can two shot the enemy. I like the "minigame" of LA/HA/block/dodge and bash.
Most of the time i am happy to play ESO at my APM rate and it is ok to stand on the toes once in a while.Edited by mague on March 26, 2020 1:31PM0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I’m sure ZoS has compared how many players are actually completing content and are trying to make it more enticing for players with lower APM (for whatever reason, hardware, location, skill, etc.).
Makes sense if they want to sell content to players to make it more reasonable (and less epeen comparing) to achieve. I have never done a vet DLC because I am ashamed of my DPS as it is when compared to what it should be as I’m told by better players.
If you think these changes are going to help low apm players you are kidding yourself. They are still going to refuse to do the mechanics, and they are going to continue to be clobbered in pvp and pve alike. They refuse to practice. Even the arthritis argument is just ridiculous, same with age. I was a low APM player on KB and Mouse because of my rheumatism, and i just switched to controller and had no issue after that point. There are options for players like us, people just absolutely REFUSE to change the way they play and practice, and INSIST they change the game to suit them, which is absolutely absurd.
And the sad truth of the matter is, if you are so disabled that you cannot do abilty abilty abilty abilty without weaving, maybe the harder content, just maybe, isnt the content for you. I am 33 with rheumatism and I would never hop onto tekken or street fighter and say " guys i cant do these combos , please change the core mechanics of the game to suit my needs " , thats absurd. Change your input device, there are SO many options out there.Edited by TheFM on March 26, 2020 1:41PM1 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button or programmable pad etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button or programmable pad etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
And then people without would abuse the hell out of it. No thnx.0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button or programmable pad etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
And then people without would abuse the hell out of it. No thnx.
So your alternative suggestion is???
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button or programmable pad etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
And then people without would abuse the hell out of it. No thnx.
So your alternative suggestion is???
Change nothing. I have rheumatory arthritis, am 33, dont have the fastest reflexes on the planet, but I practiced, changed my input device, and viola, I can keep up with good players now. People need to change how they play and adapt to the games current state, not demand the game be changed to suit their needs. I wouldnt go into tekken and be like, " oh hai! I cant do these combos on a joystick, can you please change how the entire game plays to suit my needs?"
No, I would change my input device. There are so many supported input devices in this game, people need to adapt, not demand fundamental changes to the game.
Another example is my eyes, they do not like blue light, so I changed my system to always be on night mode, I did that, I wouldnt demand the game be changed to sepia for everyone, cuz thats just ridiculous.Edited by TheFM on March 26, 2020 1:57PM1 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button or programmable pad etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
And then people without would abuse the hell out of it. No thnx.
So your alternative suggestion is???
Change nothing. I have rheumatory arthritis, am 33, dont have the fastest reflexes on the planet, but I practiced, changed my input device, and viola, I can keep up with good players now. People need to change how they play and adapt to the games current state, not demand the game be changed to suit their needs. I wouldnt go into tekken and be like, " oh hai! I cant do these combos on a joystick, can you please change how the entire game plays to suit my needs?"
No, I would change my input device. There are so many supported input devices in this game, people need to adapt, not demand fundamental changes to the game.
Another example is my eyes, they do not like blue light, so I changed my system to always be on night mode, I did that, I wouldnt demand the game be changed to sepia for everyone, cuz thats just ridiculous.
Ye agreed, like i said, dont change the fundementals of the game but i think there should be something like changing the input device or an input device assist that gives disabled people a good opportunity at game play.
Exactly like i said just reworded.Edited by Stebarnz on March 26, 2020 2:09PM0 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I hope Zeni is not going by the most recent data they have gathered. It may look like button smashers are getting rewarded for pushing buttons as quickly as possible, but that really is not the case.
Example before the last update:
Press button - Cloak
Press button - Rally
Press button - Upper Cut
After the Update
Press button
Press button
Press button
press button
press button - Cloak
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button - Rally
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press butoon - Upper Cut
If you are unlucky it goes something like
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button - Dead
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)3 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »I hope Zeni is not going by the most recent data they have gathered. It may look like button smashers are getting rewarded for pushing buttons as quickly as possible, but that really is not the case.
Example before the last update:
Press button - Cloak
Press button - Rally
Press button - Upper Cut
After the Update
Press button
Press button
Press button
press button
press button - Cloak
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button - Rally
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press butoon - Upper Cut
If you are unlucky it goes something like
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button
Press button - Dead
I really would like to know whose idea this was this change. I really REALLY want to know. These changes make no sense, help no one, and are hated by universally 90 percent of everyone on every platform, social media outlet, guild, and game area.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
As someone who works a lot with a certain charity to provide gaming enjoyment for individuals such as those you refer to see the following links (sorry to everyone that I keep dropping these links every time this point is raised)
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adaptive-controller
https://www.specialeffect.org.uk/
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precambria✭✭✭✭✭What about actions per input, cause as it stands the chance of abilities working when a physical key is presses is about 60% chance of it going off, that has nothing to do with LA weaving or blocking causing lag it just doesn't work.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
As someone who works a lot with a certain charity to provide gaming enjoyment for individuals such as those you refer to see the following links (sorry to everyone that I keep dropping these links every time this point is raised)
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adaptive-controller
https://www.specialeffect.org.uk/
THANK YOU! There are so many options available, and people demanding they change core mechanics to fit their needs is insane to me, and I am one of those ppl that HAS to use a controller cuz KB n M ruines my wrists.0 -
Stevie6✭✭✭✭It seems like high APM is one part of the problem with overall lag. Wouldn't it be better to have higher damage added back to skills and larger shields to help reduce resouce sustain issues? Quite a few players were caught in between nerfs/patches to try and "keep up with the Joneses" or meta and it's not working out so well.
Go going back to pre nerf shields, skills, and armor sets, casual/noob players will have better dps. Trying to learn a new rotation or just figuring out what to do for a casual/noob player isn't working and will never work for them ever. If the Devs are looking at this as "we are losing revenue because of all these nerfs we implemented over the years". Then yeah, I can see where they are going to attempt an overall change to how damage / mechanics are going to reworked for everyone's benefit.
If the revenue falls off because you are leaving out a certain type of player base, then that revenue chain will disappear entirely and I think that is what is happening now. Trying to balance the game and make all of the player base "happy" will be hard to implement.
So, the real question is, What did work in the past that isn't being used today? Did skills, item sets, shields, races have more damage and better balance in the past? YES THEY DID! Just need one or two tweeks to a couple of races/classes and everything would have worked out. Now, everything is basically messed up. Makes you just want to roll up a new character with a sword and call it a day...no skills needed. It's not about competition, it's about having some fun at the end of a bad day.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It seems like high APM is one part of the problem with overall lag. Wouldn't it be better to have higher damage added back to skills and larger shields to help reduce resouce sustain issues? Quite a few players were caught in between nerfs/patches to try and "keep up with the Joneses" or meta and it's not working out so well.
Go going back to pre nerf shields, skills, and armor sets, casual/noob players will have better dps. Trying to learn a new rotation or just figuring out what to do for a casual/noob player isn't working and will never work for them ever. If the Devs are looking at this as "we are losing revenue because of all these nerfs we implemented over the years". Then yeah, I can see where they are going to attempt an overall change to how damage / mechanics are going to reworked for everyone's benefit.
If the revenue falls off because you are leaving out a certain type of player base, then that revenue chain will disappear entirely and I think that is what is happening now. Trying to balance the game and make all of the player base "happy" will be hard to implement.
So, the real question is, What did work in the past that isn't being used today? Did skills, item sets, shields, races have more damage and better balance in the past? YES THEY DID! Just need one or two tweeks to a couple of races/classes and everything would have worked out. Now, everything is basically messed up. Makes you just want to roll up a new character with a sword and call it a day...no skills needed. It's not about competition, it's about having some fun at the end of a bad day.
I would be 100 percent happy to go back to pre morrowind.0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The wheel was already made for sustain. We have regeneration. Your character is gonna regenerate resources to the tune of every 2 seconds, regenerate x amount of resource.
They decided to re-invent the wheel by getting back resources through attacking. Very intuitive right? Dripping with sarcasm.
To make this a relevant thing, they had to slash our characters recovery significantly. They’ve tried raising and lowering ability skills cost.
There are jewelry glyphs to lower cost of abilities. Certain armor weights lower cost or corresponding skills by magic or stamina.
Some armor sets reduce cost’s and some add a little extra regen.
The devs are trying very hard to make this re-invented wheel “a thing” intuitive or not.
People loved their heavy attack builds when they were casual, required little input and did great damage. You were probably plugging in about 30 actions per minute and they worked good.
I’m not sure when it was( homestead, Summerset, Horns etc.) but heavy attacks got nerffed hard at one point, and light attacks got a hefty buff. It’s been this way for awhile, but it wasn’t always this way. When heavy attack build were hot, they were doing around 30k dps. If you got a bit sweaty with it you could maybe get 35k dps. No one was getting more than 40k dps on any build, and I’d argue most still don’t.
Now they’re toying around with that and we’re seeing terms that we haven’t even seen in this game before. APM.0 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭So if I press a skill and Then I jump followed by another skill I am now considered an elite player because of my “high APM”?
Change the space bar bind to LA and congratulations you are pulling top dps with one hand.
Ridiculous high APM what are they smoking0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So if I press a skill and Then I jump followed by another skill I am now considered an elite player because of my “high APM”?
Change the space bar bind to LA and congratulations you are pulling top dps with one hand.
Ridiculous high APM what are they smoking
APM is just a metric. Why is everyone freaking out about this one term? Of course not all actions are the same, so high APM in that sense doesn't make a good player. But a top player will almost necessarily have high APM. What ZOS seem to be aiming for is to allow someone to be, not top, but at least decent, without needing to weave and animation cancel perfectly.2 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭What u talkin bout, everyone has crazy high apm, you need to hit a button 8 times just to cast a skill 🙃Edited by MentalxHammer on March 26, 2020 8:21PM2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS throws out the term APM and I bet the majority of ESO players didn’t even know what that was. It’s an irrelevant metric to this game but hey at least they openly called all the low APM players trash lol.
They have absolutely zero direction or clue how to balance. A spreadsheet is being used to homogenize everything for them - APM was differing so maybe they are trying to standardize APM, aka playstyle+player skill, “closing the skill gap”.
Many of the class reps if you actually listened to them could have done 1000% better of a job. Very bad changes are currently being made.Edited by Vaoh on March 26, 2020 8:28PM4 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »People are saying APM doesn't matter because of global cooldowns, but it's not just one skill per second.
You can do one skill per second, one light attack per second, a bar swap, drink a potion and activate a synergy all in the same second.
If you are using weapon swap to cancel animations, then you are doing a lot of barswapping in your rotation in addition to skills and light attacks. Low APM people don't cancel their animations and thus cast less than 1 ability per second because they wait for the ability's animation to finish.
Don't pretend like this is not part of the issue.
What issue? People can learn to do the exact same things like everyone else does.
No. They can't. That's the whole issue. Not everyone can move their fingers that fast. There are extreme cases of people with disabilities who are physically unable to move fast enough but there are also less extreme cases of people having their hands start hurting from moving any faster.
Sounds like ZO$ mentality, tailor the game to suit 1%
The point is the majority can do it but they choose not to, changing anything at the base game level cater to such a low amount of peoples disabilities is crazy.
Im up for the people who have disabilities or physical problems using macros or auto attack mouse button etc to make the option of weaving or a/c available.
What are you talking about?
RSI doesn't only affect 1% of players.
It can affect pretty much anyone, in fact.
Half of people who work on computers get RSI and that is just people working on computers, who are not, necessarily, also gamers:
http://ergonomictrends.com/rsi-statistics/
If just working on computers means you have a 50/50 chance of having RSI, what does that mean for gamers?
When gaming in a game, without protections put in place to reduce RSI, is (potentially) even more stressful on the hands than just typing.
Also, far more than 1% of people are disabled, anyway.
The actual figure is 15%.
How many of them are gamers, I don't know, but it is fair to say the number is far higher than only 1% of gamers.
Some of whom will and some of whom won't be disabled in such a way that they are more affected, by this issue, than a non-disabled person.
Also, you can be sick in such a way you are affected more than the average person, too, with certain illnesses that affect the joints.Edited by Tigerseye on March 27, 2020 12:12AM1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doesnt matter, using apm as some kind of meaningful metric in a game like this is absolute nonsense.
The only reason apm is thing amd because a widely recognized term was because of its measurable influence in the proficiency of a players game in the RTS genre where everything is about micro and macro management.
Using it as some kind of benchmark for ESO is ludicrous even with the fact that this is an action based mmo rpg that still adheres to a 1 second GCD for ability use. When you break it down, a basic attack and an ability use per second, then add in wasd movement, bar swap and defensive actions, the amount of APM a person would need to essentially cap out before you enter superfluous button presses with no actual effect, is comically low for even the average player.
Frankly, for me personally, an actual developer using the term APM in a game like this as some sort of benchmark for adjusting the skill floor/ceiling is downright insulting.5 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭naturebased wrote: »Probably alcast and xynode and fengrush and players like that, maybe top 1 or 2%
Also, APM is kind if irrelevant. I could spam abilities and clicks for over 9000 APM but only about 10 of those would register due to lag and desyncs.
When talking APM it is only the actions that register. That is all that matters so the example of doing 9000 clicks per minute is not 9000 APM.
And yes, top players like Alcast raiding on top teams do have the higher APM. Players that raid with groups clearing the hardest content in an MMORPG tend to have the highest APM. This is not something specific to ESO. It is just that ESO requires a much higher skill level to play at the top levels of the game.
Are you trying to say eso requires more skill than other games to play at an end game pve level? If so, thats a pretty general statement to make and it sounds like *** tbh. What games are we comparing to? And what is the top level to you? Is it being able to complete DLC dungeons and trials? Or are we talking about something like the sunspire dragonbreak achievement?
Anyway, I'm already so sick of reading about APM but sadly this is only the beginning. I swear as soon as zos says something people will just hop on the bandwagon and go all in. Someone please find me a single mention of APM on the eso forums before march 23rd 2020. Im willing to bet there is none.1