Buff skill advisor!

LadyNalcarya

No, seriously. I think it could be a viable way to address the skill gap issue without changing gameplay too much.
Most of us don't use this feature, but you can see a lot of people who actually follow skill advisor builds when questing and collecting skyshards. The problem is, these builds are often outdated (for example, it suggests picking clannfear morph if you choose a beginner magicka sorcerer build) and it doesn't really explain how to use them.
So why not to expand this system?
For example, weaving is a very important mechanic, but it's not explained anywhere in game (apart from a few vague mentions of light attacking in level up menu and on loading screens). Adding a short weaving tutorial would clear a lot of misconceptions and help new players. Yes, there are youtube tutorials, but I don't think that a lot of casual players are going to watch them. Not to mention that not all of them know that this mechanic exists in the first place. And of course, when they hear about it from other players, it seems kinda confusing and maybe even intimidating. I've met people who geniunely thought they need to cancel every skill and spam skills as fast as possible, and were really frustrated when it didn't work.
Same with dots. If you choose a magicka build, advisor will tell you that you should try using elemental wall. But it doesn't really explain the concept of rotations and keeping up your dots. So you can see people spamming stuff like acid spray all over the place. Using rotations might be natural for mmo players, but not for someone who picked ESO because they liked Skyrim.

Lilly_Elessa

This is a really good idea, as long as the button to turn it off is made bigger. I, and I assume countless others who know the game, get extremely peeved off when basic mechanics keep popping up in my face. Like the current "bash now!", "dodge now with these keys!" (I think it's the tutorial you turn off aggressively in the settings?) really pisses me off every time something makes it turn back on - Actually, this particularly irks me off because in the case of "bash now!" it's literally bad advice in PvE, when I could waste time bashing, or I could cast one much faster skill and just kill it outright (and probably some of its friends standing nearby too). But then that is somewhat more to the point of you want the systems that are there to help new players to actually give them good information.
A button to tone it back might be nice too, for those sort of mid-new people who still want some bar arrangement help, but no longer need baby steps like "Don't forget to LA!"

validifyedneb18_ESO

Lack of LA attack explaining in game is huge. It should be a notable part of the start game tutorial but it isnt.

If ZOS is scared of scaring people away with weaving then after this update they can show players both the heavy attack system and the LA weave system.

There is also a lot of stuff missing in terms of explaining where high damage comes from. The A/B~=10.5 ratio, the huge reliance on stacking maxstat, importance of maximisng dots and dot uptimes. THese are not things you want to tell a new player, but they should atleast be explained in the game somewhere.

mpicklesster

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

No, seriously. I think it could be a viable way to address the skill gap issue without changing gameplay too much.
Most of us don't use this feature, but you can see a lot of people who actually follow skill advisor builds when questing and collecting skyshards. The problem is, these builds are often outdated (for example, it suggests picking clannfear morph if you choose a beginner magicka sorcerer build) and it doesn't really explain how to use them.
So why not to expand this system?
For example, weaving is a very important mechanic, but it's not explained anywhere in game (apart from a few vague mentions of light attacking in level up menu and on loading screens). Adding a short weaving tutorial would clear a lot of misconceptions and help new players. Yes, there are youtube tutorials, but I don't think that a lot of casual players are going to watch them. Not to mention that not all of them know that this mechanic exists in the first place. And of course, when they hear about it from other players, it seems kinda confusing and maybe even intimidating. I've met people who geniunely thought they need to cancel every skill and spam skills as fast as possible, and were really frustrated when it didn't work.
Same with dots. If you choose a magicka build, advisor will tell you that you should try using elemental wall. But it doesn't really explain the concept of rotations and keeping up your dots. So you can see people spamming stuff like acid spray all over the place. Using rotations might be natural for mmo players, but not for someone who picked ESO because they liked Skyrim.

^^^This! 1000 times This! Many of us that came to ESO from another TES game had no concept of what a rotation is or how to manage it. Nerfing LA damage and buffing HA damage won't fix that huge knowledge gap. The skill gap will still exist if ZOS doesn't invest more in teaching novice players the basics of managing a rotation (e.g., keeping up your buffs and dots, then using a spammable or execute on top of that).
My personal favorite solution would be to add training quests to the Fighter's and Mage's guild quest lines. The Fighter's Guild could give basic tutorials for tanks and stamina DPSs; while the Mage's Guild gives analogous tutorials for healers and magicka DPSs.
The content creator community of ESO will always make the best tutorials, but I firmly believe that an in-game, novice tutorial system is essential to closing the skill gap. ZOS's current proposal is short sighted. It will only lower the ceiling for everyone.

FakeFox

Spamming Acid Spray is actually one of the strongest AOE DPS options. But apart from that I agree.

zvavi

Well, I would prefer full fledged tutorial instances which are connected to the dungeons you can queue to (death to the fake tanks!) But this is definitely a budget option, which theoretically can help. (Even though refreshing your dots should be kinda common knowledge)

mobicera

zvavi wrote: »

Well, I would prefer full fledged tutorial instances which are connected to the dungeons you can queue to (death to the fake tanks!) But this is definitely a budget option, which theoretically can help. (Even though refreshing your dots should be kinda common knowledge)

Refreshing dots would only be common knowledge to those who played mmo's
Someone coming just from single player scrolls games may simply have no previous knowledge about such as their environment never showed them...

validifyedneb18_ESO

mobicera wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Well, I would prefer full fledged tutorial instances which are connected to the dungeons you can queue to (death to the fake tanks!) But this is definitely a budget option, which theoretically can help. (Even though refreshing your dots should be kinda common knowledge)

Refreshing dots would only be common knowledge to those who played mmo's
Someone coming just from single player scrolls games may simply have no previous knowledge about such as their environment never showed them...

This^

This is a huge oversight that people make if they dont have to design games as their dayjob. If your game is likely to pull people over from other genres (like casual/powerfantasy RPGs) it is vital you tutorialise the game in such a way that the players who are unexperienced in this genre will understand.

This is a large part of the reason Skyrim itself did so well, it does an amazing job of tutorialising through gameplay, such that people with minimal to no RPG experience can understand much of the game.

llBlack_Heartll

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Well, I would prefer full fledged tutorial instances which are connected to the dungeons you can queue to (death to the fake tanks!) But this is definitely a budget option, which theoretically can help. (Even though refreshing your dots should be kinda common knowledge)

Refreshing dots would only be common knowledge to those who played mmo's
Someone coming just from single player scrolls games may simply have no previous knowledge about such as their environment never showed them...

This^

This is a huge oversight that people make if they dont have to design games as their dayjob. If your game is likely to pull people over from other genres (like casual/powerfantasy RPGs) it is vital you tutorialise the game in such a way that the players who are unexperienced in this genre will understand.

This is a large part of the reason Skyrim itself did so well, it does an amazing job of tutorialising through gameplay, such that people with minimal to no RPG experience can understand much of the game.

I recently leveled a new toon and at lvl 41 it just mentions light attack weaving to increase dps.
It really should be at the start of a new toon and actually run through some tutorials.

Aznarb

Sound good in theory and for few newbie.
But, let be honest here.

In tutorial you learn how heavy atk look and how to block them.
Same for casting and interrupt.

Now, can you remember the number of 810+ people who still have no clue about these 2 simple, basic, mechanic of the game ?
I don't think anything will change with this.
Player who are here to learn and have fun challenging them-self, will test and read all they can across game, website, video and simulator.
The majority just gonna ignore all of that and go rush some quest/dolmen and never give a damn about it (np, their choice, only fun matter in the end).

TL;DR, good idea, definitely should be in game, but I don't think it's gonna change something about majority.

Banana

How do I remove that thing

mpicklesster

Aznarb wrote: »

Sound good in theory and for few newbie.
But, let be honest here.

In tutorial you learn how heavy atk look and how to block them.
Same for casting and interrupt.

Now, can you remember the number of 810+ people who still have no clue about these 2 simple, basic, mechanic of the game ?
I don't think anything will change with this.
Player who are here to learn and have fun challenging them-self, will test and read all they can across game, website, video and simulator.
The majority just gonna ignore all of that and go rush some quest/dolmen and never give a damn about it (np, their choice, only fun matter in the end).

TL;DR, good idea, definitely should be in game, but I don't think it's gonna change something about majority.

I share your skepticism, but I think there's a few things ZOS could do to help novices remember the above lessons they all too quickly forget.

Step one would be having spaced or repeated tutorials. If they integrated combat tutorials with each step of the Fighter's and Mage's guild quest lines, then players would get spaced practice with combat techniques every few levels (as they unlock the steps for each guild's main quest).

Step two would be to have a few mandatory tutorials that have to be completed before they can queue for veteran dungeons. One shortcoming of their starter tutorials is that they take place when a player starts a new toon--long before they're eligible for veteran dungeons. Droves of memory research suggests that if you give a tutorial long before it's relevant, people will forget it. (Check out research on the spacing effect.)

TL; DR summary: I share your concerns, but there are a couple of ways to fix those problems. ZOS need only consult a little research on memory and learning.