Revert block changes, they have added nothing to ESO

dazee

I haven't noticed the block issues myself but I have to agree, even though I am against animation cancelling as it is right now, if a fix for it would break the flow of gameplay its better off not being changed.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Asardes

dazee wrote: »

I haven't noticed the block issues myself but I have to agree, even though I am against animation cancelling as it is right now, if a fix for it would break the flow of gameplay its better off not being changed.

The problem appears one and off, without any apparent reason. Ran vHRC twice on Sunday. First run was with Necromancer tank, on Ra Kotu I died 3 times in a row while holding block, as if I wasn't. I had changed bars 2-3 seconds before to re-apply some debuffs, but I was well outside the drop block window of 1s mentioned by the developers. I know the fight very well so I know when to bar swap. Didn't have any problems on the final boss though. Did a run with my DK tank later, again, no problem on either boss. My ping was fine during both runs, between 65-100 ms, which is typical for me. Also I had no stutter or other apparent problems.

Faulgor

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I can't see what these changes has added to the game?

A lot. Mostly a lot of bugs and lag, and some crashes too

relentless_turnip wrote: »

We should have more load on the client not on the server

Never trust the client. Any developer who does, is a complete fool.

Agreed. This is the worst suggestion I’ve read in a long time.

This guy wants MORE on the client? There’s people playing this game with 500 ms or more ping.

No thanks.

Which would alleviate this?! i.e. more calculations on your computer rather than the server....
i.e less information to send/receive...

You need to check with the server all the time anyway, or every player is going to play in their own desynced bubble. That's what Gilliam tried to explain in his presentation, the previous client-authoritative block canceling caused all sorts of desyncing issues.

"Players think this is called animation canceling - and, it is. On your client. However, the server knows when this damage is occurring regardless of your inputs, and all you're doing is creating a desync between your client and another player's."

Asking for things to be moved back to client side misses the whole point of these changes.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

m8 you truly have no idea what tanking is...to be fair adjusting to the new blocking was a bit tricky...but now I like it more than the old one...not to mention what truly is bad and affects the game is the damn lags that happen after prime times...why...how...like srls I wanna do my progress runs with 60 ping again not dealing with crap from 150-300 ping just cause

relentless_turnip

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I can't see what these changes has added to the game?

A lot. Mostly a lot of bugs and lag, and some crashes too

relentless_turnip wrote: »

We should have more load on the client not on the server

Never trust the client. Any developer who does, is a complete fool.

Agreed. This is the worst suggestion I’ve read in a long time.

This guy wants MORE on the client? There’s people playing this game with 500 ms or more ping.

No thanks.

Which would alleviate this?! i.e. more calculations on your computer rather than the server....
i.e less information to send/receive...

You need to check with the server all the time anyway, or every player is going to play in their own desynced bubble. That's what Gilliam tried to explain in his presentation, the previous client-authoritative block canceling caused all sorts of desyncing issues.

"Players think this is called animation canceling - and, it is. On your client. However, the server knows when this damage is occurring regardless of your inputs, and all you're doing is creating a desync between your client and another player's."

Asking for things to be moved back to client side misses the whole point of these changes.

Regardless of the goal or the point of these changes is irrelevant if it just breaks the game to do it.
I understand what they wanted to do, but if it makes everything worse it needs reverting until a time they are sure they can make it work.
They shouldn't be allowing the game to run like this while they figure it out...

relentless_turnip

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

m8 you truly have no idea what tanking is...to be fair adjusting to the new blocking was a bit tricky...but now I like it more than the old one...not to mention what truly is bad and affects the game is the damn lags that happen after prime times...why...how...like srls I wanna do my progress runs with 60 ping again not dealing with crap from 150-300 ping just cause

I am talking about the skill delays, these changes have caused. Something happened server side to make skills desync.
Tanking is only one role in the game, I'm wondering if the DPS in your group share your point of view regarding changes to animation cancelling?

mav1234

Just last patch, combat was far smoother and abilities were more quick reacting.

We were told we wouldnt really see a functional difference. We do. But we aren't getting communication on if block is working as intended in its clunky state, or if the differences and delay we see are unintended.

And yes, it is true fighting an unmoving, stationary enemy, combat feels not so bad. But boy, in pvp, it is extremely noticable and feels clunky. It isnt just clunky for old players either- whether old or new, having abilities that fail to fire constantly due to server checks (see thogards YouTube video) feels clunky even when you don't know the difference.

Moonsorrow

Asardes wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

I haven't noticed the block issues myself but I have to agree, even though I am against animation cancelling as it is right now, if a fix for it would break the flow of gameplay its better off not being changed.

The problem appears one and off, without any apparent reason. Ran vHRC twice on Sunday. First run was with Necromancer tank, on Ra Kotu I died 3 times in a row while holding block, as if I wasn't. I had changed bars 2-3 seconds before to re-apply some debuffs, but I was well outside the drop block window of 1s mentioned by the developers. I know the fight very well so I know when to bar swap. Didn't have any problems on the final boss though. Did a run with my DK tank later, again, no problem on either boss. My ping was fine during both runs, between 65-100 ms, which is typical for me. Also I had no stutter or other apparent problems.

As said, the block issue does not happen 100% of the time, but randomly - enough to feel it is not reliable as it was before the change to the Block mechanism. So it has been sadly a clear downgrade and i have not seen any benefits to the server performance due to it OR the other changes. Perhaps slightly shorter loadscreens, when not primetime (PC EU), but at primetime.. at Cyro and at overland zone switching the loadscreens are as long as before most often.

So.. what to do? Reverting Block changes to before this Update 25 would make Block reliable again atleast before the changes has been tested, tested and tested until "it just works" reliably like before. Testing should be done on PTS and not on Live server IMO.

I know ZOS might be reluctant to do such, but it is like in current real life realities.. better work faster than too late to prevent more damage to health of the game engine and to the health of both PVE and PVP communities.

ZOS, things not always go as thinks, i know.. but hard actions are needed to fix the situation to keep the game playable & fun, like it used to be. I know you are working hard for fixes and debugging the issues. But as you know, doing so can also just cause new issues and returns of old bugs too. Sometimes while it is hard and feels like swallowing pride - the right thing to do is to go back to a reliable and stable version of the game. Obviously keeping all the simple QoL improvements that you done that do not cause issues. I wish you strenght and will for the decisive action that is needed right now.

"I HAVE SPOKEN" vol. 2

relentless_turnip

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

I haven't noticed the block issues myself but I have to agree, even though I am against animation cancelling as it is right now, if a fix for it would break the flow of gameplay its better off not being changed.

The problem appears one and off, without any apparent reason. Ran vHRC twice on Sunday. First run was with Necromancer tank, on Ra Kotu I died 3 times in a row while holding block, as if I wasn't. I had changed bars 2-3 seconds before to re-apply some debuffs, but I was well outside the drop block window of 1s mentioned by the developers. I know the fight very well so I know when to bar swap. Didn't have any problems on the final boss though. Did a run with my DK tank later, again, no problem on either boss. My ping was fine during both runs, between 65-100 ms, which is typical for me. Also I had no stutter or other apparent problems.

As said, the block issue does not happen 100% of the time, but randomly - enough to feel it is not reliable as it was before the change to the Block mechanism. So it has been sadly a clear downgrade and i have not seen any benefits to the server performance due to it OR the other changes. Perhaps slightly shorter loadscreens, when not primetime (PC EU), but at primetime.. at Cyro and at overland zone switching the loadscreens are as long as before most often.

So.. what to do? Reverting Block changes to before this Update 25 would make Block reliable again atleast before the changes has been tested, tested and tested until "it just works" reliably like before. Testing should be done on PTS and not on Live server IMO.

I know ZOS might be reluctant to do such, but it is like in current real life realities.. better work faster than too late to prevent more damage to health of the game engine and to the health of both PVE and PVP communities.

ZOS, things not always go as thinks, i know.. but hard actions are needed to fix the situation to keep the game playable & fun, like it used to be. I know you are working hard for fixes and debugging the issues. But as you know, doing so can also just cause new issues and returns of old bugs too. Sometimes while it is hard and feels like swallowing pride - the right thing to do is to go back to a reliable and stable version of the game. Obviously keeping all the simple QoL improvements that you done that do not cause issues. I wish you strenght and will for the decisive action that is needed right now.

"I HAVE SPOKEN" vol. 2

^^This^^
Well said mate!

Jaraal

Interesting how once again Steam players are abandoning ship with the new backfiring performance "improvements."


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Asardes

vBF was really funny today, to say the least.

barney2525

Interesting video

I did not know that they had actually removed animation canceling. No wonder so many players are complaining. Thats a major change in the way players actually use the system in combat.

IMHO

Faulgor

barney2525 wrote: »

Interesting video

I did not know that they had actually removed animation canceling. No wonder so many players are complaining. Thats a major change in the way players actually use the system in combat.

IMHO

Of course not, because they didn't.

Kadoin

Honestly, what I started doing is blocking and taking a few steps. I don't know if it really does anything, but it seems to help. Maybe when moving and holding block the server always rechecks the condition of block and updates it when updating your position, where standing in one place is "spotty."

Anyone else can move and block and see if they still have block unresponsive? So far I haven't been one-shot through a blockable mechanic yet (18 runs).

DreadDaedroth

Revert this change. Thanks.