Buff Warden DDs ZOS; they arent just healers :'(

Quantorn

If you want to discuss Nightblade and healing maybe do that somewhere else pls, i want ideas for warden changes. PvP balancing issues concerning heals and damage output are another issues of the game, caused by PvP design of the game...

ccfeeling wrote: »

Buff warden DPS , also buff NB healer , DK healer , Sorc healer , Nec healer and Templar tank .

Fair trade .

This is the way it should be yes, but right now, the balancing is always centred around changes for some of the classes. But to be honest, necro heal for example is better for some raids than other healing classes, ist more support playstyle but its viable, the
others still need a buff thats right.
But in the past ZOS said that they will rework the classes to give them better heal/tank spots, but, correct me if im wrong, in a past patch they said they balnced warden so ist now a viable dps class... . ZOS never said this about any other class, and thats why im insecure if they ever will buff warden DPS. (Is there even a class rep for magicka and stamina warden DPS at the moment @ZOS_GinaBruno ? (both Masel ?))
I would like to know if its even planned to buff warden dps, small adjustments would be enough.
For other tank and heal subclasses the problem is for most the lack of buff, debuffs and QoL things like chains, lets wait the next update for those subclasses ^^.

Brandathorbel

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Wardens are hardly "in a good spot". They're viable if your group doesn't care about maximizing numbers, sure. If they do, Wardens are literally a joke. Legitimately, the most commonly joked about class.

Its just hard to Buff Warden DPS in PvE, without making them OP in PvP.

It's not like it's difficult. People complain about Warden burst from shalks, simple solution. Bump the overall damage by 10%, but have 20-40% of it apply as a DoT over 3 seconds. Less burst, more consistent damage. It creates a dynamic where properly weaving it every 3 seconds makes it even more valuable and powerful.

Game design and game balance simply isn't this damn difficult.

please don't do that, that would hurt them even more and i would be really peeved.

Problem is, people think the only thing that exists in this game is single target damage. One thing that warden does well is cleave with shalks and can take out a lot of adds quickly.

if they added multiple dummies to look at total dmg, single target and cleave it make upend the top classes currently.

Quantorn

xbobx15 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Wardens are hardly "in a good spot". They're viable if your group doesn't care about maximizing numbers, sure. If they do, Wardens are literally a joke. Legitimately, the most commonly joked about class.

Its just hard to Buff Warden DPS in PvE, without making them OP in PvP.

It's not like it's difficult. People complain about Warden burst from shalks, simple solution. Bump the overall damage by 10%, but have 20-40% of it apply as a DoT over 3 seconds. Less burst, more consistent damage. It creates a dynamic where properly weaving it every 3 seconds makes it even more valuable and powerful.

Game design and game balance simply isn't this damn difficult.

please don't do that, that would hurt them even more and i would be really peeved.

Problem is, people think the only thing that exists in this game is single target damage. One thing that warden does well is cleave with shalks and can take out a lot of adds quickly.

if they added multiple dummies to look at total dmg, single target and cleave it make upend the top classes currently.

There is a major issue in this way of thinking, raiding and endgame content is ESO is designed around good single target and cleave damage, every other class can do both well, MagDK and STamdplar are even better in cleave damage, yet they also outperfom singeltarget... . Even in bossfights with addphases, other magicka classes are way better because they have at the moment blockade, orb, destro ult and some of the have other class abilities too ^^. They also have good singeltarget and in a real Raid you dont need aoe all the time, there is no raid where you need to kill many adds at one time, HoF & SS addphases are only short phases, throw destro stack, use the normal skills, still most of the timme better in overalle dps than a warden. Every other raid is the same, for trashfights you take a AoE setup... .

WrathOfInnos

I’ve come to the conclusion that the bear’s active ability, Guardian’s Wrath, is too weak. It is a single target hit every ~21s that does nothing to buff the user, and results in less than 4% of single target DPS in trials. The passive damage from Swipe and Crushing Swipe is fine (except that Crushing Swipe still misses large enemies like dragons And both Swipe and Crushing Swipe do not get affected by Bloodthirsty jewelry).

One interesting consequence of the active vs passive bear damage is the effect of Minor Heroism. These expensive potions have become popular in end game PVE, especially for score pushing. They increase ultimate generation by about 20%, and on other classes this directly translates to 20% more DPS from ultimates (more on classes with ults that buff their other skills: DK standard, NB soul harvest, and Necro colossus). On Warden, the 20% increase in ult gen only affects the active 1/3 of bear damage, resulting in about a 6% increase in their ultimate DPS.

I would recommend increasing the DPS of Guardian’s Wrath, but I don’t think making it hit harder is the right answer, the burst is fine. Instead it could get a cost decrease from 75 ult to 50 ult. This would make the active ability responsible for a higher ratio of the total bear DPS. It would also allow Wardens to be the best class for using War Machine or Master Architect as a group buff set in trials (and Major Slayer has no effect in PVP). Currently Magden cannot compete with Magblade for Slayer uptimes, given the NB’s cheaper ult cost, 20 ult when drinking a potion, and 10 ult on kills from Soul Harvest. If the bear cost 50 ult, it could be used every 14-15s, allowing 66-70% Slayer uptime from WM or MA. Add in Minor Heroism potions and 12s might be possible for about 80% Slayer uptime.

This would be great for securing Warden DPS a spot in trials, while ensuring that Warden healers and tanks do not supply this particular buff. It also has a cap, since more than 2-3 Major Slayer users gives diminishing returns from overlapping buffs, so you would never see Warden stacking like the Necro stacking in Elsweyr and Scalebreaker. In stamina groups, 2-3 stamdens in War Machine would be enough Slayer for the other classes to drop Lokkestiiz for other sets. We might see some build diversity in stamina sets again, bringing back things like Advancing Yokeda or the new Aegis Caller, instead of just Lokke + Relequen for most bosses.

Iskiab

Arguing between MagWarden and Magblade is like arguing about who’s the class checkers champion: one might be better but no one else cares, and it’s a sad thing to argue about.

I think magblade and magwarden are both too specialized imo. Magblades too single target focused and magwarden too aoe focused, both would benefit from being less specialized. For magwardens buffing the class spammable for better single target would be a good idea.

Kittytravel

All of these statistics are for Veteran because Normal isn't worth using and VHM is a much smaller sample size.

Going off ESOLogs over the last two weeks for DPS logs Magdens average second place out of twelve for highest DPS and Stamdens average 9th out of 12 for dungeons.

The same site also has Iron Atronach tests showing Magden at 6/12 on Iron Atronach Dummy and Stamden at 9/12.

Sunspire shows Magden at 7/12 and Stamden at 11/12.

Cloudrest has Magden at 2/12 and Stamden at 9/12.

Asylum Sanctorium has Magden at 3/12 and Stamden 11/12.

Halls of Fabrication has Magden at 6/12 and Stamden at 8/12.

Maw of Lorkhaj has Magden at 9/12 and Stamden at 12/12.

Sanctum Ophidia has Magden at 8/12 and Stamden at 12/12.

Hel Ra Citadel Magden sits at 5/12. and Stamden at 11/12.

and Aetherian Archive has Magden at 6/12 and Stamden at 12/12.

So I can only assume your entire thread is a buff only for Stamden and not Magden which parses pretty decent to high because on average other people seem to do just fine on Magden sitting in the 50% mark or higher for 7/10 of the general tests that we can see. So yes I agree with a buff to Stamden but not to Magden which seems to be sitting pretty since the class currently tops in a lot of other categories such as being a Tank, Healer, or solo PvP.

WrathOfInnos

Iskiab wrote: »

Arguing between MagWarden and Magblade is like arguing about who’s the class checkers champion: one might be better but no one else cares, and it’s a sad thing to argue about.

I think magblade and magwarden are both too specialized imo. Magblades too single target focused and magwarden too aoe focused, both would benefit from being less specialized. For magwardens buffing the class spammable for better single target would be a good idea.

Iskiab wrote: »

Arguing between MagWarden and Magblade is like arguing about who’s the class checkers champion: one might be better but no one else cares, and it’s a sad thing to argue about.

I think magblade and magwarden are both too specialized imo. Magblades too single target focused and magwarden too aoe focused, both would benefit from being less specialized. For magwardens buffing the class spammable for better single target would be a good idea.

I disagree with that summary. Warden with a Bear has to give up any AoE ultimate, they cannot put Shooting Star or Fiery Rage on their back bar. Winter’s Revenge and Twisting Path are pretty similar in damage. Beyond that it comes down to Deep Fissure and Sap Essence. Fissure hits harder, but Sap doesn’t have a 3s cooldown so I’d say these are roughly equivalent as well.

Add in single target Fetcher Infection and the fact that they’re the only class that still uses single target DoTs like Entropy, and Warden becomes one of the lowest cleave classes (maybe tied with Sorc, given the current state of Lightning Flood).

A stronger Cliff Racer would help their single target, but Warden AoE is not in a good place either. The most recent change to Northern Storm made this even worse, since there was previously passive Max Magicka for slotting the ultimate, and Wardens could put a good AoE ultimate back bar. Now to get any Max Magicka our of Northern Storm it must be cast, and it is deals less than half the damage of Elemental Rage.

Skjaldbjorn

Brandathorbel wrote: »

please don't do that, that would hurt them even more and i would be really peeved.

Problem is, people think the only thing that exists in this game is single target damage. One thing that warden does well is cleave with shalks and can take out a lot of adds quickly.

if they added multiple dummies to look at total dmg, single target and cleave it make upend the top classes currently.

Uh...no. Stamplars and Stamcros can easily dumpster our AoE DPS. Yes, our burst is solid, but also heavily delayed. If anything, converting some of the damage to a DoT while bringing up the overall total funnels more power into sustained, consistent DPS which is what thrives in ESO. Burst pattern-based rotations are actually pretty poor ever since Mechanical Acuity fell out of the meta. Normalizing Warden to be less burst-centric and more sustain would actually benefit us in every phase of damage in trial scenarios.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Arguing between MagWarden and Magblade is like arguing about who’s the class checkers champion: one might be better but no one else cares, and it’s a sad thing to argue about.

I think magblade and magwarden are both too specialized imo. Magblades too single target focused and magwarden too aoe focused, both would benefit from being less specialized. For magwardens buffing the class spammable for better single target would be a good idea.

Iskiab wrote: »

Arguing between MagWarden and Magblade is like arguing about who’s the class checkers champion: one might be better but no one else cares, and it’s a sad thing to argue about.

I think magblade and magwarden are both too specialized imo. Magblades too single target focused and magwarden too aoe focused, both would benefit from being less specialized. For magwardens buffing the class spammable for better single target would be a good idea.

I disagree with that summary. Warden with a Bear has to give up any AoE ultimate, they cannot put Shooting Star or Fiery Rage on their back bar. Winter’s Revenge and Twisting Path are pretty similar in damage. Beyond that it comes down to Deep Fissure and Sap Essence. Fissure hits harder, but Sap doesn’t have a 3s cooldown so I’d say these are roughly equivalent as well.

Add in single target Fetcher Infection and the fact that they’re the only class that still uses single target DoTs like Entropy, and Warden becomes one of the lowest cleave classes (maybe tied with Sorc, given the current state of Lightning Flood).

A stronger Cliff Racer would help their single target, but Warden AoE is not in a good place either. The most recent change to Northern Storm made this even worse, since there was previously passive Max Magicka for slotting the ultimate, and Wardens could put a good AoE ultimate back bar. Now to get any Max Magicka our of Northern Storm it must be cast, and it is deals less than half the damage of Elemental Rage.

AB4.0 would help with the aoe. just saying

miguelcura

Is a warden dps worth playing as the main character now?