No-CP Magbade versing Stam classes ( need your help)

ImGru

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build... Every time I'm trying to combo = Fear> Grim Focus/Soul Harvest people just break free and roll dodge/heal, rotate into front bar and lock me down. If I block two hits and break free I have no stamina left for roll dodge and they just run me over like it's no tomorrow. How do i deal with stamina classes?

I'm running: 2 Blood spawn,
5 new moon
5 Bright-Throat.

Skills:

Fron>Destro: 1.Swallow Soul, 2.Lotus Fan, 3.Fear, 4.Merciless Resolve, 5.Elemental Drain.

Back>Resto: 1.Degeneration, 2.Rapid Regeneration, 3.Cloak, 4.Siphoning, 5.Channeled Accelaration.


Stats in the pic :
https://imgur.com/0vLnuyR

Hoping you can help me,

Thanks.

Iskiab

Switch your food to Mara if you’re using bright throat. Your health pool is too low to pvp with.

Switch channeled acceleration for race against time and fear for the fear trap. Swop out degeneration for shade.

Besides that it’s mostly a playstyle thing, you have to acknowledge that most specs will brawl better then you. Keep pressure up and evade, then kite over your trap and when the fear hits then Ult so it will land.

You’re weaker then other classes, you have to outplay people.

Thedragonlolitucker

try to hit the soul with a heavy out of stealth then fear then spec bow, so ull actually be able to hit it

Thedragonlolitucker

Thedragonlolitucker wrote: »

try to hit the soul with a heavy out of stealth then fear then spec bow, so ull actually be able to hit it

soul harvest*

fred4

OK, I can see a bunch of mistakes in your build:

You don't have decent healing. Healing over time with Siphoning Attacks, Rapid Regen and Swallow Soul is all well and good, but it's not enough. Magblade healing is poor these days. I personally still prefer Healing Ward over Rapid Regen. It's better in emergency, though I do use a Blackrose resto staff, which is easy to farm. Secondly, Bloodspawn is IMO wasted on any class that uses an ult as cheap as Soul Harvest. I would swap that out for Troll King.

New Moon is IMO the wrong set for magblade. The class gets a +8% magicka bonus from slotting a Siphoning skill. Use Necropotence instead, or Alfiq if you really don't want to use the shade. This will give you the option of running Dampen Magic. I know shields aren't great in no CP, but it will still make you a hell of a lot tankier. If you don't want to run the shield, then stacking magicka is debatable, but New Moon is also a cost increase and cloaking around the place is expensive. At the very least I would only single bar New Moon.

Next thing is your mobility. Channeled Acceleration is a complete no no, unless you are a bomber. The initial slowdown is unacceptable. You need Race Against Time instead. In addition, for Cloak to work - and I assume you're talking about Shadowy Disguise - you need one of the following approaches:

(A) Shadow Image
(B) Mist Form
(C) Stacking into speed with all Swift jewelry and stamina sustain for roll dodges. Running Cripple is not a bad idea either.

What Iskiab said, playing around your Fear traps, may also be viable. I haven't tried, but I'd be weary about people getting their 7 second CC immunity when using that as a defensive measure. I actually use Eternal Hunt and Caluurion, which does work in no CP as well as in CP, but my build is obviously quite different. I think the Eternal Hunt rune is more reliable, because it does not have such a long immunity. Fear trap sounds more interesting for burst opportunities, though.

Of course, if you are running Dark Cloak, things change considerably. In that case I would definitely recommend magicka stacking and running Dampen.

As for your stamina sustain, I don't know how far the High Elf passive carries you. I play with considerable stam regen on a Breton, because it's nice to play. If you don't have that, then you must watch your stamina like a hawk and cloak away in advance of it running out, possibly missing opportunities. If you're running a drink, you'll want all prismatic enchants on gear. If you're running Sugar Skulls, you don't, but you can't use Bright Throat's and your stamina will still run out. I prefer having some outright stamina sustain or I run Deep Thoughts. Bloodspawn alone is not enough, at least not on a Breton. In the past I've had 1.3K stam regen from Hissmir Fisheye Rye. Currently I have less than 1K from Eternal Hunt, but that rune when you dodge roll goes a long way. Mist Form may also be viable in that you recover stamina while near-invulnerable. It just doesn't strike me as a very magbladey skill.

Running Bright-Throat's has an advantage in terms of out of combat cloak sustain, but it is not really a good set anymore. Forgoing it allows you to switch to gold foods, such as Sugar Skulls or Citrus Fillet, which include some health regen and are more stat-dense than drinks that work with Bright-Throat's. The exception is Disastrously Bloody Mara, I suppose, but that does nothing to help with stamina issues. You'll still end up with prismatics, at which point you have to ask yourself how much health you really need and whether that part of Disastrously isn't wasted. I tend to run straight-up Necropotence + Alfiq, when I'm magicka stacking, or Necro + Ancient Grace + Master staff.

UrbanMonk

4 years Magblade main...
Then 2 years in Exile...
This is what he has become now...

https://youtu.be/3AT7HhKLn9c

Langeston

I disagree with @fred4 re: NMA. I actually use BTB/NMA on my magblade too, and I'm liking it quite a bit. (Although a week or so ago I would have told you the exact same thing he did.) Unless you're using shields, it's one of the best damage sets to pair with BTB. Spinner's is great too & I sometimes swap that out, but the combination of penetration, crit, and spell damage you get from NMA is tough to beat.

For a defensive monster set I'd use Chudan instead of Bloodspawn. Up-front resists & the extra health are more useful for a class whose primary defense is damage avoidance. If you're playing a cloak magblade right, Bloodspawn is actually probably one of the worst monster sets for you. I usually use either Slimecraw or Zaan though, depending on if I'm going to stay ranged or go in closer for my kills. I feel like the best defense is a good offense — especially on a magblade.

Your stats look kind of off for that build, is that screenshot taken in no CP? Magicka & spell damage look low & the regen a bit high. What food, mundus, and potions are you running? What glyphs on armor/jewels? Are you only front-barring NMA? (Highly recommended, with either a Willpower or BRP resto. Seducer works too.)

It's already been said, but it bears repeating: you want Race Against Time — that alone will make a huge difference in survivability, and it'll save you quite a bit of stamina when you're playing against DKs & Bombard spamming bowtards.

Personally I'd ditch Lotus Fan for inner light, the 7% larger magicka pool is useful with NMA, plus it boosts your damage & the Major Prophecy is vital. You don't really want to be doing much gap-closing in light armor anyway, you want to kite & stay ranged.

Consider trying Dawnbreaker of Smiting. I find it to be more useful & consistent than Soul Harvest in most situations — you'll land it more often and it stuns. The nice thing about DB is that I can swap out fear for a shield & I'll still have a stun for my bow combo.

One thing you'll notice is that you've gotten 3 very different answers to what you probably thought was a simple question. I think that magblades are one of the most personal classes, and in the end the answer will come down to your personal preference & playstyle.

If you answer my questions about food/mundus/glyphs/etc. though, that would be a good place to start — because if the stats in that screenshot are in CP, we can get them to look a good bit better than that with a few tweaks.

fred4

Langeston wrote: »

I disagree with @fred4 re: NMA. I actually use BTB/NMA on my magblade too, and I'm liking it quite a bit. (Although a week or so ago I would have told you the exact same thing he did.) Unless you're using shields, it's one of the best damage sets to pair with BTB. Spinner's is great too & I sometimes swap that out, but the combination of penetration, crit, and spell damage you get from NMA is tough to beat.

Fair enough .

For a defensive monster set I'd use Chudan

Really? One piece? Two pieces? Not using shadow skills much?

instead of Bloodspawn. Up-front resists & the extra health are more useful for a class whose primary defense is damage avoidance. If you're playing a cloak magblade right, Bloodspawn is actually probably one of the worst monster sets for you.

I totally agree! Extra health from Chudan, though?

I usually use either Slimecraw or Zaan though, depending on if I'm going to stay ranged or go in closer for my kills. I feel like the best defense is a good offense — especially on a magblade.

Or any nightblade . Sadly what I see in the last couple of patches is stamblades, who used to be really dangerous, failing to make an impact on me in Imperial City. Those players who totally stacked into damage. The class has been blunted and ZOS want you to brawl. Quite possibly this is Gilliam the Rogue's influence. I am personally very ambivalent about this. I like playing a rounded build and I like that wearing medium on another class isn't the death sentence it used to be, when ganked by certain stamblades. On the other hand turning NBs into brawlers dilutes what the class is and it doesn't really suit it. One of the biggest problems, pointed out by a YouTuber, is that nightblades tend to be single target. Other classes have a ton of AOE damage from Shalks, Jabs, Leap, are tanky af and still hit super hard. I have insane sustain and a 4Kx4 = 16K buffed tooltip on my stamplar (in CP) with very little effort (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=204766). Nightblades, with their single target focus, should arguably outperform that, but they don't. I get the channel vs. non-channel and melee vs. ranged arguments. Jabs is clunky and, thus, stamplars don't make for the best numerical comparison. Jabs needs to perform, because it is such a clunky skill, but it does perform. I don't think nightblade spammables currently do.

Your stats look kind of off for that build, is that screenshot taken in no CP?

Hey, look at the thread title .

Langeston

fred4 wrote: »

Really? One piece? Two pieces? Not using shadow skills much?

Yes, two pieces. Oh, I use Cloak religiously (likely too much, tbh) and I have Mass Hysteria on my front bar, but I've found that if/when I die, it's because I've been CC'd and I've been out of cloak for longer than 7 seconds, so my shadow barrier is likely down. (On a side note, I think Shadow Barrier needs to be increased by 2 - 3 seconds or so.)

I totally agree! Extra health from Chudan, though?

Yup, and it puts me right above 20k in no-CP, even while running Ghastly Eye Bowl.

Or any nightblade . Sadly what I see in the last couple of patches is stamblades, who used to be really dangerous, failing to make an impact on me in Imperial City. Those players who totally stacked into damage. The class has been blunted and ZOS want you to brawl. Quite possibly this is Gilliam the Rogue's influence. I am personally very ambivalent about this. I like playing a rounded build and I like that wearing medium on another class isn't the death sentence it used to be, when ganked by certain stamblades. On the other hand turning NBs into brawlers dilutes what the class is and it doesn't really suit it. One of the biggest problems, pointed out by a YouTuber, is that nightblades tend to be single target. Other classes have a ton of AOE damage from Shalks, Jabs, Leap, are tanky af and still hit super hard. I have insane sustain and a 4Kx4 = 16K buffed tooltip on my stamplar (in CP) with very little effort (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=204766). Nightblades, with their single target focus, should arguably outperform that, but they don't. I get the channel vs. non-channel and melee vs. ranged arguments. Jabs is clunky and, thus, stamplars don't make for the best numerical comparison. Jabs needs to perform, because it is such a clunky skill, but it does perform. I don't think nightblade spammables currently do.

Yes, this "single target assassin with the weakest single target burst in the game" is a huge pain point for me as well. I've made it work relatively well for me, but magblades are weak AF even compared to stamblades. I have a solid opening combo, and earlier today I just had a bit of a brainstorm for another combo I'm going to try that might do pretty well, but I still have to test it.

Hey, look at the thread title .

Yeah, I suppose I should have read that a bit more carefully, lol. In any case, something still isn't right. For a frame of reference, below are my stats in no-CP Cyrodiil on the same build except for with 2 Chudan & a Breton — they're better in almost every conceivable way (even spell damage on a Breton — and health recovery, wtf? I'm a vamp too, but 130?? lol) I'm also using a cost reduction glyph that I'm assuming the OP isn't, so either the spell damage or mag regen could get even higher. (I need to transmute 1 piece of the Chudan to impen so that accounts for the lower crit resist.) That's why I wanted a rundown of food/mundus/glyphs. We can get OP's stats boosted considerably — even on my speedy build with 3 gold swift my stats are a lot better.

The only buff is an Alliance War Draught.

Iskiab

Yea, Chudan’s not a bad set on a lot of classes. People dismiss it because they think ‘I can use x ability to get that’ but it also has a good 1 and 2 piece stat bonus’ on it. If you have bar crunch it’s a good choice. I can’t imagine not wearing it as a magsorc.

ImGru

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I can see a bunch of mistakes in your build:

You don't have decent healing. Healing over time with Siphoning Attacks, Rapid Regen and Swallow Soul is all well and good, but it's not enough. Magblade healing is poor these days. I personally still prefer Healing Ward over Rapid Regen. It's better in emergency, though I do use a Blackrose resto staff, which is easy to farm. Secondly, Bloodspawn is IMO wasted on any class that uses an ult as cheap as Soul Harvest. I would swap that out for Troll King.

Good morning,

I forgot to mention that i was running stage 4 vampire, will I still benefit enough from 4% healing and regeneration of Troll King to use it?

fred4 wrote: »

New Moon is IMO the wrong set for magblade. The class gets a +8% magicka bonus from slotting a Siphoning skill. Use Necropotence instead, or Alfiq if you really don't want to use the shade. This will give you the option of running Dampen Magic. I know shields aren't great in no CP, but it will still make you a hell of a lot tankier. If you don't want to run the shield, then stacking magicka is debatable, but New Moon is also a cost increase and cloaking around the place is expensive. At the very least I would only single bar New Moon.

I love shade and mobility it gives, but I felt that i needed to trade it for degeneration to access Major sorcery.

fred4 wrote: »

Next thing is your mobility. Channeled Acceleration is a complete no no, unless you are a bomber. The initial slowdown is unacceptable. You need Race Against Time instead. In addition, for Cloak to work - and I assume you're talking about Shadowy Disguise - you need one of the following approaches:

(A) Shadow Image
(B) Mist Form
(C) Stacking into speed with all Swift jewelry and stamina sustain for roll dodges. Running Cripple is not a bad idea either.

Changed for Race against time and it already feels so much better, will start using Shadow Image as well.

fred4 wrote: »

As for your stamina sustain, I don't know how far the High Elf passive carries you. I play with considerable stam regen on a Breton, because it's nice to play. If you don't have that, then you must watch your stamina like a hawk and cloak away in advance of it running out, possibly missing opportunities. If you're running a drink, you'll want all prismatic enchants on gear. If you're running Sugar Skulls, you don't, but you can't use Bright Throat's and your stamina will still run out. I prefer having some outright stamina sustain or I run Deep Thoughts. Bloodspawn alone is not enough, at least not on a Breton. In the past I've had 1.3K stam regen from Hissmir Fisheye Rye. Currently I have less than 1K from Eternal Hunt, but that rune when you dodge roll goes a long way. Mist Form may also be viable in that you recover stamina while near-invulnerable. It just doesn't strike me as a very magbladey skill.

I have shackle Breaker in my bank, but how much damage would i lose if I traded that for New moon? Is it worth it?

fred4 wrote: »

Running Bright-Throat's has an advantage in terms of out of combat cloak sustain, but it is not really a good set anymore. Forgoing it allows you to switch to gold foods, such as Sugar Skulls or Citrus Fillet, which include some health regen and are more stat-dense than drinks that work with Bright-Throat's. The exception is Disastrously Bloody Mara, I suppose, but that does nothing to help with stamina issues. You'll still end up with prismatics, at which point you have to ask yourself how much health you really need and whether that part of Disastrously isn't wasted. I tend to run straight-up Necropotence + Alfiq, when I'm magicka stacking, or Necro + Ancient Grace + Master staff.

Is magicka stacking still beneficial if I'm not using shields? I love regen, that's the only reason i picked Bright-Throat's.

ImGru

Iskiab wrote: »

Switch your food to Mara if you’re using bright throat. Your health pool is too low to pvp with.

Switch channeled acceleration for race against time and fear for the fear trap. Swop out degeneration for shade.

Besides that it’s mostly a playstyle thing, you have to acknowledge that most specs will brawl better then you. Keep pressure up and evade, then kite over your trap and when the fear hits then Ult so it will land.

You’re weaker then other classes, you have to outplay people.

Traps sounds so fun, even forgot about that morph, definitely going to try.

ImGru

Langeston wrote: »

For a defensive monster set I'd use Chudan instead of Bloodspawn. Up-front resists & the extra health are more useful for a class whose primary defense is damage avoidance. If you're playing a cloak magblade right, Bloodspawn is actually probably one of the worst monster sets for you. I usually use either Slimecraw or Zaan though, depending on if I'm going to stay ranged or go in closer for my kills. I feel like the best defense is a good offense — especially on a magblade.

Good morning,

For the most I was using Bloodspawn because of Templar Jabs, I meet that class in every BG I queue in and it's super hard to get them lose so I though I'l just stack resists to survive Charge>Sweep>Jabs combo. Chudan sounds really nice, I'l start farming undaunted.

Langeston wrote: »

Your stats look kind of off for that build, is that screenshot taken in no CP? Magicka & spell damage look low & the regen a bit high. What food, mundus, and potions are you running? What glyphs on armor/jewels? Are you only front-barring NMA? (Highly recommended, with either a Willpower or BRP resto. Seducer works too.)

I'm playing in No-CP since I'm on 490 Champion points. BTW do you think I would have any chance In CP campaign?

Langeston wrote: »

Personally I'd ditch Lotus Fan for inner light, the 7% larger magicka pool is useful with NMA, plus it boosts your damage & the Major Prophecy is vital. You don't really want to be doing much gap-closing in light armor anyway, you want to kite & stay ranged.

I used to weave my light's with Swallow soul or heave attack+ light attack from Shadowy Disguise into Lotus>light>Fear>light>Merciless Resolve/Soul Harvest. Needed that lotus to gap close for fear + 8% Minor vulnerability sounds sweet. But like Iskiab said I been playing more like a brawler than a mage, I will try fear traps instead and probably wont need Lotus anymore, I will swap that for Inner Light as you advise.

Langeston wrote: »

Consider trying Dawnbreaker of Smiting. I find it to be more useful & consistent than Soul Harvest in most situations — you'll land it more often and it stuns. The nice thing about DB is that I can swap out fear for a shield & I'll still have a stun for my bow combo.

Is the damage/stun worth it? Since Stamina classes get Weapon damage from medium armor passive while light armor users get Magic Penetration passive that does not transfer into physical abilities.

In this case do I swap Elemental Drain for Piercing mark? Since Elemental.D gives only Major Breach and that goes to waste as well...

Langeston wrote: »

If you answer my questions about food/mundus/glyphs/etc. though, that would be a good place to start — because if the stats in that screenshot are in CP, we can get them to look a good bit better than that with a few tweaks.

No-CP campaign, The Apprentice, full magicka glyphs, vampire. In that screen shot I been using Witchmother's Potent Brew, but swaped for Bloody mara, still thinking of using tri-stat food to get some mobility from stam.

ImGru

Please feel free to discuss any topic talked about, replies and questions are not directed towards single person.

Langeston

What glyphs on your jewelry?

ImGru

Langeston wrote: »

What glyphs on your jewelry?

Magicka recovery with arcane

Iskiab

At CP490 you’ll get crushed in the CP campaign. Stick to non-CP.

Langeston

Ok, so I'll tell you what I've found that works for me.

What I run in PVP most of the time is all tri-stat enchantments on my armor and triune jewelry. This gives me just enough health and stamina that it allows me to run Ghastly Eye Bowl. Ghastly gives you a lot of Magicka and sustain, enough that with your NB & vampire passives (and maybe 1 regen glyph on an Altmer) it should be all the regen you need, so you can change one or more of your jewelry enchantments to spell damage. (I use 1 spell cost reduction glyph & 2 spell damage on a Breton and Khajiit — but on an Altmer you may want an additional mag regen.) You may be able to do without the spell cost reduction glyph, but I find it a necessity.

For mundus, I use Mage. With a Siphoning ability and Inner Light on your front bar, you actually wind up getting quite a bit of Magicka from it, which is super helpful when you're using NMA, and it gives you a good bit of damage (pretty much the exact same amount as the Apprentice, but with more resources to work with.) Lover might give a bit more damage, but I much prefer the extra magicka. To even out the amount of magicka on my front & back bars, I use a willpower resto staff.

If you use pots that give you major sorcery you can ditch Degeneration on your back bar and slot concealed weapon instead. This will make you much more nimble while cloaked, which makes you more unpredictable and difficult to catch. Personally, I couldn't live without it. You can buy spellpower pots for AP from the vendor near Battlemaster Rivyn for cheap.

I also slot Barrier as my back bar defensive ult, but it's mostly for the extra 10% magicka regen you get from it. Since I'm constantly using Cloak/RAT, every bit of regen comes in handy.

Remember what I said though: NB builds are extremely personal & what works for me may not work for you. Most people seem to like to run with a bit more health than I do, but I find that regen & speed is more important to my defense than health. In any case, I definitely would recommend considering the switch to Tri-stat enchants if you have the gold for them, they're basically free stamina and a necessity on any well-rounded PVP NB build, IMO.

Langeston

As far as Shacklebreaker, I think Magblades are just too weak of a class for that set to be effective. I use it on one of my Alts with BTB, but that toon just doesn't hit anywhere near as hard as my main.

If you're stage 4 vampire, the 2 pc bonus on Troll King is decreased to the point that I don't consider it useful.

Noctus

ImGru wrote: »

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build

the mistake is lvling a magblade for pvp. magblade is good in solo pve content only 2nd to sorc i think. but pvp wise ur screwed. magblade is bottom tier pvp. i suggest stamblade for now.

i see ur also EU PC whats ur ingame ID ?

ImGru

Noctus wrote: »

ImGru wrote: »

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build

the mistake is lvling a magblade for pvp. magblade is good in solo pve content only 2nd to sorc i think. but pvp wise ur screwed. magblade is bottom tier pvp. i suggest stamblade for now.

i see ur also EU PC whats ur ingame ID ?

Hey, my ign: @RokasGru

I'm laughing and crying at the same time, I have stamsorc and working on to get the gear. If nothing works, probably gonna try that one.

Noctus

ImGru wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

ImGru wrote: »

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build

the mistake is lvling a magblade for pvp. magblade is good in solo pve content only 2nd to sorc i think. but pvp wise ur screwed. magblade is bottom tier pvp. i suggest stamblade for now.

i see ur also EU PC whats ur ingame ID ?

Hey, my ign: @RokasGru

I'm laughing and crying at the same time, I have stamsorc and working on to get the gear. If nothing works, probably gonna try that one.

if u go for sorc go for magsorc they are nasty in pvp

Langeston

ImGru wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Consider trying Dawnbreaker of Smiting. I find it to be more useful & consistent than Soul Harvest in most situations — you'll land it more often and it stuns. The nice thing about DB is that I can swap out fear for a shield & I'll still have a stun for my bow combo.

Is the damage/stun worth it? Since Stamina classes get Weapon damage from medium armor passive while light armor users get Magic Penetration passive that does not transfer into physical abilities.

In this case do I swap Elemental Drain for Piercing mark? Since Elemental.D gives only Major Breach and that goes to waste as well...

This is a good point that I hadn't considered. The 2 abilities do wind up doing about the same amount of damage in no CP regardless, but you're right that your spell pen will have no effect on Dawnbreaker. I will say this: I get multiple kills with DB that would never I get with Soul Harvest. Maybe I should give Soul Tether another look.

Iskiab

ImGru wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

ImGru wrote: »

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build

the mistake is lvling a magblade for pvp. magblade is good in solo pve content only 2nd to sorc i think. but pvp wise ur screwed. magblade is bottom tier pvp. i suggest stamblade for now.

i see ur also EU PC whats ur ingame ID ?

Hey, my ign: @RokasGru

I'm laughing and crying at the same time, I have stamsorc and working on to get the gear. If nothing works, probably gonna try that one.

Stamsorcs are good, they might not be the best dueling class but in BGs I see lots of stamsorcs clean up. No idea how they do it.

Magblade is bottom tier yea, but it does have a fun factor. You just have to accept there are a lot of situations where you’ll die and there’s nothing you can do about it.

It’s almost like your performance depends more on your opponents then yourself. If I can heal and go in for bursts in a BG without being hunted I’ll clean up. If you tick someone off on another team and they go after you, you’re going to die a lot.

I had one game where I went 400k damage and 950k healing in one BG and I was proud of myself because I had 5 kills and 2 deaths, then I looked at the winning team and they had a MagWarden who broke 2 million healing. It’s just how magblade goes.

Other games there’ll be someone who decides they’ll come after you with detect pots, and you’ll die maybe 8 times, you just have to let it roll off and focus on your own fun. That’s why I like Caluurion and fear traps, sometimes when they come after you they die instead.

fred4

ImGru wrote: »

I forgot to mention that i was running stage 4 vampire, will I still benefit enough from 4% healing and regeneration of Troll King to use it?

No. Try Chudan or something else.

I love shade and mobility it gives, but I felt that i needed to trade it for degeneration to access Major sorcery.

Major Sorcery is a perennial problem ... or is it ? I gave up on using it a loooong time ago, because the only way to get it in advance of a gank is a potion and I have always found Immovability potions more valuable. My strategy is about making my attacks stick. If you run a proc (Caluurion), like I do, Major Sorcery isn't that big of a deal. If you run a magicka stacking build, it isn't either. If you run a Spell Damage stacking build, well then it is. I must try New Moon + Rattlecage some day...

I have shackle Breaker in my bank, but how much damage would i lose if I traded that for New moon? Is it worth it?

Shacklebreaker and Amber Plasm are solid choices for PvP mag builds in general. I think Amber plays marginally better on classes that prefer spell damage, e.g. templar. For other classes, like NB, I prefer Shackle, for example when magicka stacking for shields. The additional stamina also feels better to me in no CP, because break free is so expensive there.

That said, Shackle is a set you run with drinks. There are good reasons to run a drink on a cloaking magblade, because you will have better out-of-combat magicka regen. On the other hand, if you use Sugar Skulls, then the extra stam from Shackle is typically wasted, at least in CP. I don't feel it's a competitive set in that case. In other words, Shackle combines well with a drink and prismatic enchants, which brings your stamina to around 15K in CP. Sugar Skulls combines well with mostly pure magicka enchants and Shackle becomes redundant. Sugar Skulls gives you so much stat, it compensates for not using prismatics with it.

Yes, you will lose some damage by wearing Shacklebreaker. I don't know what to tell you. Magblade is underperforming. I gave up on stat-based builds altogether. I play Caluurion + Eternal Hunt in 7 light. Not super powerful, but a fun build.

Stamina sustain is ultimately a playstyle thing. I like highly reactive builds, builds that don't have a buff rotation, but where (almost) every skill is situational. I like speed and I like stamina sustain, because it keeps you "in the game" and not focused on your own housekeeping. That's why I don't even run the shade. Once you forgo the shade and you're not a vamp running, say, Mist Form, your stamina requirements on magblade shoot up. Classes and builds differ in this regard. For example on magsorc I find it possible to neglect stamina sustain, because Streak can substitute for dodge rolls. The problem with magblade is that you typically have to go into melee range for Soul Harvest and you have severe problems getting far enough away again to successfully Cloak afterwards. This is where the stamina sustain comes in, at least if damage avoidance via Cloak is your main defense. It's one option option to make magblade work, though not the only one. A mag-stacking build with large shields can often shield instead of dodge rolling, reserving stamina for break free. A build that uses Shadow Image can port out before stamina becomes an issue and can run Deep Thoughts after the port. In that case merely having a decent stamina pool is helpful, but you arguably don't need regen.

Is magicka stacking still beneficial if I'm not using shields?

Not so much. Depends on the build. 1 spell damage = roughly 10.5 magicka. Siphoning passive (+8%) + Inner Light (+7%) = +15% magicka. Major Sorcery = +20% spell damage. You do the math. Problem with Major Sorcery is the need for a potion that includes it. As a ganker neither Degeneration nor Sap Essence is viable. In terms of a potion, Immovability + Detection + Magicka plays much better than anything else for my playstyle.

I love regen, that's the only reason i picked Bright-Throat's.

The biggest factors for balancing damage vs. regen are your jewelry enchants, your mundus and your food. Never forget that. It doesn't matter whether you use damage sets or regen sets. You can always rebalance your build using the above, even down to fine tuning with an Infused piece of jewelry.

What matters is that your armor sets give you good bang for the buck. What exact combination of things they give you doesn't matter, as long as it's something you care about and the set conditions - such as "must use a drink" - aren't too restrictive. Both NMA and Bright Throat's score well in this regard, which is why they are popular. I find the strength of NMA hard to judge when you consider that it can be single-barred and people will eat the cost increase that way. In regard to many other sets, such as Bright Throat's, it's much more straightforward and their strength is pretty marginal compared to "standard" sets. It's just when something is marginally BIS, then people talk about it and guild store prices go through the roof. The following post is old, but it gives you an idea as to what I'm talking about:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Iskiab

I think you guys are overlooking some things:

1. I use the cheap AP spell power pots. They pay for themselves from doing BGs
2. If you aren’t solo, like a BG, than sp > mag because you might have a templar in your group
3. If you’re finding that you need to invest more in stam and use immobility pots because of soul harvest, easy solution is to drop soul harvest

fred4

ImGru wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

ImGru wrote: »

Hey guys hope can help me,

Few weeks ago I leveled up High Elf Magblade, got most of the gear and stuff, but feels that I can't kill anyone that's running stamina build

the mistake is lvling a magblade for pvp. magblade is good in solo pve content only 2nd to sorc i think. but pvp wise ur screwed. magblade is bottom tier pvp. i suggest stamblade for now.

i see ur also EU PC whats ur ingame ID ?

Hey, my ign: @RokasGru

I'm laughing and crying at the same time, I have stamsorc and working on to get the gear. If nothing works, probably gonna try that one.

So you're moving from the weakest class to the second weakest...

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

3. If you’re finding that you need to invest more in stam and use immobility pots because of soul harvest, easy solution is to drop soul harvest

And go Meteor? Complete change of playstyle. Wouldn't want it. Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Fear (Caluurion at point blank range) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul / Impale. If you're wearing Caluurion and you don't aim to use it at point blank range, you're doing something wrong. Soul Harvest isn't the only reason to go in close. What you're saying is a solution, true, but it's not an easy solution, it's a complete change of playstyle that brings it's own problems with it.

fred4

ImGru wrote: »

For the most I was using Bloodspawn because of Templar Jabs, I meet that class in every BG I queue in and it's super hard to get them lose so I though I'l just stack resists to survive Charge>Sweep>Jabs combo. Chudan sounds really nice, I'l start farming undaunted.

Bloodspawn is unreliable damage reduction. It does not feel great as a mitigation set. It's main claim to fame is the ulti gen and the stam recovery.

Phantasmal Escape / Mirage is one way to reduce that damage: -25%. Wearing Potentates (if you have room): -5%. Slotting Psijic ult on back bar = Minor Protection: -8%. Putting the shade up (in a duel) = Minor Maim: -15%. Ramping up Merciless Resolve: -10%. Problem with all of these forms of mitigation: They are multiplicative with the possible exception of the Merciless buff. Stacking them has diminishing returns. Stacking resistances doesn't suffer from this problem, but you are more vulnerable to Onslaught, if that's the only thing you do.

I find that I am too squishy in my builds, regardless of what I do. Mitigation works, if you stack it, especially resistances. The alternative is damage avoidance. Speccing for both tends to make you a wet noodle tank. You can't have it all. I prefer damage avoidance.

Phantasmal Escape overlaps with RAT. I find the combination of speed and snare removal from RAT unbeatable and couldn't justify slotting both skills. I think I tried once, but it just doesn't work for me, possibly because I don't use Merciless, nor the shade, and I therefore don't stack mitigations.

My approach to templars is to try and control them. It's one of the main reasons I wear Eternal Hunt. You dodge roll, they get stuck on the rune. Dodge rolls without any additional mechanic do not work against templars. Dodge rolls + speed works quite well, but you need to be fully invested in it, e.g. Steed mundus + Concealed Weapon + Cloak + RAT + 3x gold Swift jewelry + Windrunning from CP. I swear I can feel the difference of every 5% extra speed against templars. However dropping 10% speed and wearing Eternal Hunt beats everything.

Some other ways of dealing with templars:

(1) Moving through them. Running away from a player, especially a jabbing templar, dooms you to be forever in their target area. It only works with very high speed, dodge rolls and optionally Eternal Hunt, like I'm doing. Moving through a player, on the other hand, snookers them. Players are not solid, unlike NPCs, and you are now behind their target area. That said, among good players this is a constant dance as they will try to get the best position on you too. It is a mechanic where stamina players IMO have the advantage, but also fast players. It is one of the main reasons why I like speed and some stam sustain.

(2) Good old fashioned line of sight / situational awareness. Always position yourself so an obstacle is never too far away. If you need to buff, retreat and move around some physical barrier.

(3) Cripple them. I use Debilitate for the sustain and 50% snare. This skill IMO competes with Elemental Drain for bar space, but is much more valuable and fun to play, because it does something more than just give you damage (which it does too).

(4) Shade them. If you're dealing with a single templar that isn't quite top tier in terms of damage and situational awareness, it's almost comical how you can stalemate the fight. You don't need to have the shade up. Plop it down. RAT. Move a few meters while shielding or healing. Then port back. You are now behind the templar.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, Chudan’s not a bad set on a lot of classes. People dismiss it because they think ‘I can use x ability to get that’ but it also has a good 1 and 2 piece stat bonus’ on it. If you have bar crunch it’s a good choice. I can’t imagine not wearing it as a magsorc.

I don't play it much, but what clinches Lightning Form for me is the semi-passive Crit Surge healing. As a nightblade I also hate everyone who bristles with lightning, be it a sorc or someone wearing Overwhelming Surge.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

3. If you’re finding that you need to invest more in stam and use immobility pots because of soul harvest, easy solution is to drop soul harvest

And go Meteor? Complete change of playstyle. Wouldn't want it. Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Fear (Caluurion at point blank range) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul / Impale. If you're wearing Caluurion and you don't aim to use it at point blank range, you're doing something wrong. Soul Harvest isn't the only reason to go in close. What you're saying is a solution, true, but it's not an easy solution, it's a complete change of playstyle that brings it's own problems with it.

Yea true, but it does limit your exposure. Meteor from range (they will block if they can) right before they run over your trap - go in for the cal proc so they’re defensive and see if you can get a kill. I just find meteor more reliable, and with a distinctive sound it throws people off when you fire it. I’m squishy so like being exposed the least amount possible.

Against a good stam they can burst you from 100 to dead in one combo. I see being sneakier and more ranged as a necessity now, especially with a buggy break free and aoe spam everywhere in BGs.