Necromancer Pro's & Con's

YandereGirlfriend

MagCro definitely feels like Harry Potter living under the stairs in his spoiled cousin's (StamCro's) house.

albertberku

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

Also armor buff is the far worst one in the game. It gives almost just plain buff. No extra effects. Lets get our facts straight.

Yes, let's get our facts straight. One morph gives you 15% reduction to your summon abilities, which is very helpful for sustain (makes NMA a little more palatable).

The other morph pulls in ranged attackers, which can be nice in PvP (most ranged builds panic and die quickly when pulled into melee range) and good for PvE as well to help cluster trash mobs.

Not to mention the passive that give you 15% DoT reduction while active and the other passives just for having a Bone Tyrant skill slotted.

15% reduction for an ability that costs 1k magicka, that you cast every 16 seconds. That makes whooping 20 magicka recovery.

And no, generally you dont want to pull anyone to yourself in pvp, when 10 people chase you.

Both morphs are absolutely useless.

For magicka, Bone Totem is used in pvp with near 100% uptime, so you dont need armor buff for the dot reduction. If you are stamina necromancer, then yeah, armor would be useful for the dot dmg reduction.

Aznarb

Healcro ;

Pro :
- Nice Mag. Regen
- 2 unique Synergy
- Many debuff
- Ulti gen
- Tanky (resolve, minor prot, 10% from heal pet, 3% from necro potency)

Con :
- Rez ult way to costly to be used
- Burst heal is clunky and apply minor defile (why ?)
- Outside burst heal I find other heal gimmick and not really useful (i use mender only for dmg reduction and regen passive)

Not as strong as easy-templar or warden, but very close.
I really enjoy it

oXI_Viper_IXo

albertberku wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

Also armor buff is the far worst one in the game. It gives almost just plain buff. No extra effects. Lets get our facts straight.

Yes, let's get our facts straight. One morph gives you 15% reduction to your summon abilities, which is very helpful for sustain (makes NMA a little more palatable).

The other morph pulls in ranged attackers, which can be nice in PvP (most ranged builds panic and die quickly when pulled into melee range) and good for PvE as well to help cluster trash mobs.

Not to mention the passive that give you 15% DoT reduction while active and the other passives just for having a Bone Tyrant skill slotted.

15% reduction for an ability that costs 1k magicka, that you cast every 16 seconds. That makes whooping 20 magicka recovery.

And no, generally you dont want to pull anyone to yourself in pvp, when 10 people chase you.

Both morphs are absolutely useless.

For magicka, Bone Totem is used in pvp with near 100% uptime, so you dont need armor buff for the dot reduction. If you are stamina necromancer, then yeah, armor would be useful for the dot dmg reduction.

It reduces the cost of blastbones and the mender, both of which cost more than 1k. It's not useless.

Spirit Guardian costs 4320 magicka. 15% = 648 reduced cost.
Stalking Blastbones costs 2700. 15% = 405 reduced cost.

That's definitely not nothing.

mague

regime211 wrote: »

What do you see are the pros and cons of necromancer BOTH stamina and magicka?

What are somethings you think should be changed if you had the chance to fix it?

Visuals of Boneyard and Bone Armor. Especially the gravestones are overdone and hover angular in the air on some ground.

Add some sustain to Boneyard and Bitter Harvest

There should be a corpse drop passive like: On casting an ability you have n% chance to get a corpse (or fetish). That would make it a bit easier to do custom builds like Annulment instead of Bone Armor.

One more legal ulti. Maybe make Ravenous Goliath morph a legal one. Could be a different animation to save the lore.

Noxavian

mague wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

What do you see are the pros and cons of necromancer BOTH stamina and magicka?

What are somethings you think should be changed if you had the chance to fix it?

Visuals of Boneyard and Bone Armor. Especially the gravestones are overdone and hover angular in the air on some ground.

Add some sustain to Boneyard and Bitter Harvest

There should be a corpse drop passive like: On casting an ability you have n% chance to get a corpse (or fetish). That would make it a bit easier to do custom builds like Annulment instead of Bone Armor.

One more legal ulti. Maybe make Ravenous Goliath morph a legal one. Could be a different animation to save the lore.

Why do we need another legal ulti?

Out of literally everything you could change with the necromancer, you're worried about which abilities are illegal....? What.

Im sorry, that just seems like such a weird request when there's so much wrong with the class.

Thedragonlolitucker

best stamclass

Holycannoli

They dropped the ball with necro.

- Necros shouldn't heal like they do. They deal with death and the undead, not life. This makes no sense

- They have terrible summons. Necros are summoners primarily.

- Where are their DoTs? Poisons, disease, life leeching. Even though they gutted DoTs back in September (which is why I rarely play now) necros should be packing the strongest in the game

- The corpse mechanic is interesting but clunky. Where is the ability to raise those corpse as zombies or skeletons? Necros study death and the undead and instead they're out there using fields of corpses to heal people instead of raising hordes of zombies.

Noxavian

Holycannoli wrote: »

They dropped the ball with necro.

- Necros shouldn't heal like they do. They deal with death and the undead, not life. This makes no sense

- They have terrible summons. Necros are summoners primarily.

- Where are their DoTs? Poisons, disease, life leeching. Even though they gutted DoTs back in September (which is why I rarely play now) necros should be packing the strongest in the game

- The corpse mechanic is interesting but clunky. Where is the ability to raise those corpse as zombies or skeletons? Necros study death and the undead and instead they're out there using fields of corpses to heal people instead of raising hordes of zombies.

Your statement is 100% true.

Anyone that disagrees with this assessment of what the necromancer should of been clearly didn't want a necromancer.

Imagine a necromancer being bad at summoning.... Out of 3 ults and 15 abilities idk how they managed to do that. I personally think Grave grasp and the literal entire living death line needs reworked.

THE FACT NECROMANCERS make some of the best healers in game is the most backwards design I have ever seen. Where's the summoner build? Debuffs? Soul leeching? Why is there an entire corpse mechanic yet not a single summon is raised from corpses?

Brandathorbel

I think it would be fun if you got raised by a necromancer it changed your stats somehow for a period of time. Just to make it different. Necromancers raise the dead to become people not actually alive.

Would be interesting if you ended up with like a zombie status for 2 mins where you took extra damage from something and gained extra resistance to something else.

Brandathorbel

Czekoludek wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

biggest con is complete lack of buffs in class skills. Missing pretty much every one.

-Major Vulnerability
-Minor Vulnerability
-Major Defile
-Major Breach
-Major Resolve
-Major Ward
-Major Protection
-Minor Protection
-Minor Maim

You cannot be serious.

i said buff most of those are debuffs. They are the only class without either a crit or spell/weapon damage buff. They have neither.

other than Vulnerability nothing increases your damage.

now take the list of actual buffs to your character and compare it to all other classes. I bet its not even close to being equal.

They have access to buffs/debuffs that are really rare and you say that their con is lacking most Basic buffs that you can get from potions used by almost everyone? I will trade NB source of major sorcery i brutality for major vuln and major defile, without a hesitation

the vast majority of casual players are not going to use potions because they cant afford them. Warden is a great casual class because you can get almost all your major buffs from skills you would normally equip.

Czekoludek

xbobx15 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

biggest con is complete lack of buffs in class skills. Missing pretty much every one.

-Major Vulnerability
-Minor Vulnerability
-Major Defile
-Major Breach
-Major Resolve
-Major Ward
-Major Protection
-Minor Protection
-Minor Maim

You cannot be serious.

i said buff most of those are debuffs. They are the only class without either a crit or spell/weapon damage buff. They have neither.

other than Vulnerability nothing increases your damage.

now take the list of actual buffs to your character and compare it to all other classes. I bet its not even close to being equal.

They have access to buffs/debuffs that are really rare and you say that their con is lacking most Basic buffs that you can get from potions used by almost everyone? I will trade NB source of major sorcery i brutality for major vuln and major defile, without a hesitation

the vast majority of casual players are not going to use potions because they cant afford them. Warden is a great casual class because you can get almost all your major buffs from skills you would normally equip.

For magcro they can use degenreation skill from mages guild, for stamcro hidden blade or momentum skill, depend if you are using dw or 2h as necro. Overall even without using potions these buffs are, like i said before, pretty common, and can be gained from skill lines available to everyone. What's the difference between geting this buff from class skill or generic skilline like weapon/guild?

barney2525

Pros - Necromancers that get paid for their services

Cons - Necromancers that get thrown in jail for their services

thadjarvis

xbobx15 wrote: »

the vast majority of casual players are not going to use potions because they cant afford them. Warden is a great casual class because you can get almost all your major buffs from skills you would normally equip.

Sure, but a casual isn't always trying to mix/max execute crit damage and running Orbs as it can be too costly without supports providing nice sustain for some. There's room for Inner Light and/or Camo Hunter (mag's do use this) front bar, slimecraw, and Degen as a DoT back-bar?

Secondly, these buffs aren't really all that important if playing casually; you can just slot whatever and have fun. If it's not critical enough for a player to use a potion for a particular fight then there's probably little benefit to worrying about these details. Eg most casual dungeons you can pop a couple potions for the HM if desired.

Finally, if really having those buffs is really important, a similar feel to casting BB's every couple skills, and having a permanent pet there's a class ready for the taking: Warden (mag or stam).

Anhedonie

Pros - a lot of stamina morphs

Cons - clunky, slow, buggy. Class design is boring. Stamina rotation is braindead easy. Hinges on Colossus Ult. If Major Vulnerability goes away, people will drop this class instantly. Very inconsistent class. Graveyard has hilariously dumb animation. Imagine summoning concrete tombstones. Why can't we drop road roller on people's head?

Brandathorbel

Czekoludek wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

biggest con is complete lack of buffs in class skills. Missing pretty much every one.

-Major Vulnerability
-Minor Vulnerability
-Major Defile
-Major Breach
-Major Resolve
-Major Ward
-Major Protection
-Minor Protection
-Minor Maim

You cannot be serious.

i said buff most of those are debuffs. They are the only class without either a crit or spell/weapon damage buff. They have neither.

other than Vulnerability nothing increases your damage.

now take the list of actual buffs to your character and compare it to all other classes. I bet its not even close to being equal.

They have access to buffs/debuffs that are really rare and you say that their con is lacking most Basic buffs that you can get from potions used by almost everyone? I will trade NB source of major sorcery i brutality for major vuln and major defile, without a hesitation

the vast majority of casual players are not going to use potions because they cant afford them. Warden is a great casual class because you can get almost all your major buffs from skills you would normally equip.

For magcro they can use degenreation skill from mages guild, for stamcro hidden blade or momentum skill, depend if you are using dw or 2h as necro. Overall even without using potions these buffs are, like i said before, pretty common, and can be gained from skill lines available to everyone. What's the difference between geting this buff from class skill or generic skilline like weapon/guild?

I know, thats my issue is you have to take up to spots on your skill bar with non class abilites for those buffs. To my knowledge, no other class has to do that. Every class has access to at least one of those buffs in their class skills.

when i play a class i would like as many class skills on the bars as possible otherwise it doesnt feel unique.

SidraWillowsky

I have a rather sardonic attitude towards stamcros; I hit my highest trial dummy DPS ever after three parses in the PTS. That parse was likely woefully sloppy and it STILL pulled insane DPS. I guess that's both a pro and a con?

Like stamcro, I've only played around on a magcro in the PTS. I'm a magwarden main and the flow of the rotation is similar, so I picked it up fairly quickly. However, I can't bring myself to play it because I find the class so damn hokey. Raising a bunch of gravestones? Throwing skulls at enemies? It's like one of those pop-up Halloween stores.

I have major similar issues with some Warden skills (I seriously hate needing the damn bear if I want max DPS, the netch is heinously ugly, and I don't actually WANT to be throwing birds at people), but the pros outweigh the cons there.

Brandathorbel

I full expect at some point they will nerf the crit bonus trait to 5% or lower per skill.

regime211

dazee wrote: »

Pros:
If someone dies to mechanics when you're healing you can always rez them as your zombie slave
Death is only the beginning
More dead bodies = better not worse
Dinnertime = Meatloaf Atronarch time

Cons:
People will claim the class is "Dead on arrival"
You play with your meatloaf at mealtimes, angering your mom or grandma.

Huh?

regime211

Noxavian wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Pros:

Versatile
Access to Major Vulnerability through Ultimate
Access to Major Defile through blastbones
High survivability


Cons:

No execute
No access to Major Brutality / Sorcery
Defensive CC only
Lackluster / restrictive passives
Poor 'spammable' ranged attack
A couple poor abilities that may as well not exist (grave grasp, shocking siphon)

Grave Grasp is the most laughable ability in any video game I've ever seen. So much mana for something that doesn't hard cc and nor deals dmg....

Grave Grasp should of ultimately been what that new monster set with the skeleton hand comes out is. I mean we have NPC's who can summon a hand from the ground to snare or CC you. And yet we get grave Grasp which does nothing. They literally could of made it like Choking Talons and morphs but changed the animation to just skeleton hands coming up from the ground. Instead of giving us that stupid bone totem lol

Vercingetorix

- Necromancers should be able to cast an empowered version of their Blastbones for free by consuming a nearby corpse.
- The Bone Armor ability should provide additional magicka and stamina whenever a corpse is consumed while active.
- Grave Grasp should be reworked as a "Chains" ability: debuffs the pulled enemy OR buffs an ally/summon if used on them
- Death Knell passive should grant bonus critical chance for each Necro ability slotted, instead of only Grave Lord abilities

Noxavian

regime211 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Pros:

Versatile
Access to Major Vulnerability through Ultimate
Access to Major Defile through blastbones
High survivability


Cons:

No execute
No access to Major Brutality / Sorcery
Defensive CC only
Lackluster / restrictive passives
Poor 'spammable' ranged attack
A couple poor abilities that may as well not exist (grave grasp, shocking siphon)

Grave Grasp is the most laughable ability in any video game I've ever seen. So much mana for something that doesn't hard cc and nor deals dmg....

Grave Grasp should of ultimately been what that new monster set with the skeleton hand comes out is. I mean we have NPC who summon a hand from the ground to snare or CC you. And yet we get grave Grasp which does nothing. They literally could of made it like Choking Talons and morphs but changed the animation to just skeleton hands coming up from the ground. Instead of giving us that stupid bone totem lol

Ye not a fan of the bone totem either, but at least the totem is useful. Grave Grasp literally is a useless ability.

I can very much agree though! The skeletal hand monster set effect is so cool. Also did you know the ability was originally going to be a line of bone spikes that hard cc'd? On the Necro concept art, the ability looked so cool.

regime211

Noxavian wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Pros:

Versatile
Access to Major Vulnerability through Ultimate
Access to Major Defile through blastbones
High survivability


Cons:

No execute
No access to Major Brutality / Sorcery
Defensive CC only
Lackluster / restrictive passives
Poor 'spammable' ranged attack
A couple poor abilities that may as well not exist (grave grasp, shocking siphon)

Grave Grasp is the most laughable ability in any video game I've ever seen. So much mana for something that doesn't hard cc and nor deals dmg....

Grave Grasp should of ultimately been what that new monster set with the skeleton hand comes out is. I mean we have NPC who summon a hand from the ground to snare or CC you. And yet we get grave Grasp which does nothing. They literally could of made it like Choking Talons and morphs but changed the animation to just skeleton hands coming up from the ground. Instead of giving us that stupid bone totem lol

Ye not a fan of the bone totem either, but at least the totem is useful. Grave Grasp literally is a useless ability.

I can very much agree though! The skeletal hand monster set effect is so cool. Also did you know the ability was originally going to be a line of bone spikes that hard cc'd? On the Necro concept art, the ability looked so cool.

Smfh then why did they not go with that concept it baffles my mind how they think the final product is better then what was first originated. With how they redid stonefist they can do it to grave crasp

regime211

Please if you can keep this post going! We need zos to really understand necromancers need some fixing, I know other classes do as well but necromancer needs help!

regime211

Anhedonie wrote: »

Pros - a lot of stamina morphs

Cons - clunky, slow, buggy. Class design is boring. Stamina rotation is braindead easy. Hinges on Colossus Ult. If Major Vulnerability goes away, people will drop this class instantly. Very inconsistent class. Graveyard has hilariously dumb animation. Imagine summoning concrete tombstones. Why can't we drop road roller on people's head?

Yeah the gravestones to me was just stupid and didn't understand why it had nothing to do with bones or something.

regime211

xbobx15 wrote: »

I think it would be fun if you got raised by a necromancer it changed your stats somehow for a period of time. Just to make it different. Necromancers raise the dead to become people not actually alive.

Would be interesting if you ended up with like a zombie status for 2 mins where you took extra damage from something and gained extra resistance to something else.

I much rather not have that happen no thanks lol

regime211

Noxavian wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

They dropped the ball with necro.

- Necros shouldn't heal like they do. They deal with death and the undead, not life. This makes no sense

- They have terrible summons. Necros are summoners primarily.

- Where are their DoTs? Poisons, disease, life leeching. Even though they gutted DoTs back in September (which is why I rarely play now) necros should be packing the strongest in the game

- The corpse mechanic is interesting but clunky. Where is the ability to raise those corpse as zombies or skeletons? Necros study death and the undead and instead they're out there using fields of corpses to heal people instead of raising hordes of zombies.

Your statement is 100% true.

Anyone that disagrees with this assessment of what the necromancer should of been clearly didn't want a necromancer.

Imagine a necromancer being bad at summoning.... Out of 3 ults and 15 abilities idk how they managed to do that. I personally think Grave grasp and the literal entire living death line needs reworked.

THE FACT NECROMANCERS make some of the best healers in game is the most backwards design I have ever seen. Where's the summoner build? Debuffs? Soul leeching? Why is there an entire corpse mechanic yet not a single summon is raised from corpses?

The issue with the summoning part is giving us one summon ability which I thought was stupid, then they went and tide Re-Animate Blastbones to a 325-350 ultimate to revive your allies but also summon 3 blast bones per corpse, which in my opinion should of been separated abs have 1 morph summon blastbones or the undead, while the other morph revived allies restoring their resources. I find it a bit funny that templars get a special passive to revive someone with full resources, and then go ahead and give the necromancer a high costing ultimate which is similar to templars minus reviving 3 people.

regime211

Noxavian wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

They dropped the ball with necro.

- Necros shouldn't heal like they do. They deal with death and the undead, not life. This makes no sense

- They have terrible summons. Necros are summoners primarily.

- Where are their DoTs? Poisons, disease, life leeching. Even though they gutted DoTs back in September (which is why I rarely play now) necros should be packing the strongest in the game

- The corpse mechanic is interesting but clunky. Where is the ability to raise those corpse as zombies or skeletons? Necros study death and the undead and instead they're out there using fields of corpses to heal people instead of raising hordes of zombies.

Your statement is 100% true.

Anyone that disagrees with this assessment of what the necromancer should of been clearly didn't want a necromancer.

Imagine a necromancer being bad at summoning.... Out of 3 ults and 15 abilities idk how they managed to do that. I personally think Grave grasp and the literal entire living death line needs reworked.

THE FACT NECROMANCERS make some of the best healers in game is the most backwards design I have ever seen. Where's the summoner build? Debuffs? Soul leeching? Why is there an entire corpse mechanic yet not a single summon is raised from corpses?

The fact they made the Goliath Ultimate absolutely Useless, it should either be reworked or just honestly changed to something else. Necromancer in my opinion needs to be completely reworked!

robpr

Pros:
-damage
-visuals
-ulti gen, even outside of combat
-general tankiness
-versatility in building, regardless if ranged or melee
-2 unique synergies, that one of them can be self-synergized

Cons
-no major sorcery/brutality if you want to play on budget
-blastbones potato AI that highly impacts the rotation
-because bbones potato AI, wonky corpse placement, that affects tether ability
-still wonky tether placement
-self-heal tied either to easy to kill pet, hard to control tether or expensive scythe that requires melee range
-unreliable class root

Holycannoli

regime211 wrote: »

The fact they made the Goliath Ultimate absolutely Useless, it should either be reworked or just honestly changed to something else. Necromancer in my opinion needs to be completely reworked!

That's another one. Where's lich? Why is the ultimate a goliath instead of a lich?

Whoever designed the class obviously tried to make sure it was the least necromancy necromancer ever seen.

(yes necromancy is now an adjective)