Whats looking "strong" this time around? (pve)

Joxer61

Ok, other than MagDks, who are getting some nice goodies, what class is looking to benefit this time around? From those that have tested is it what many of us hope and is it pretty even all across the board or are some classes getting a gold star while others a chunk of coal (no Dk joke meant,lol)??
We are all waiting until tomorrow, or Tues for some of us, damn future anyways, but yea, just curious if ZOS has done a good job and kept things relatively even...oh sorry... Balanced.??

Finedaible

Definitely not Nightblades... Any class using a two-hander and Fighter's Guild skills can do everything a stamina NB can, but better. The only thing they got going for them atm is cloak, but it's marginally useful with all the hard counters. Assassin class, but sucks at assasination, lol.

Inb4 new vampire skill line gives cloak to all classes

John_Falstaff

Finedaible wrote: »

Definitely not Nightblades... Any class using a two-hander and Fighter's Guild skills can do everything a stamina NB can, but better. The only thing they got going for them atm is cloak, but it's marginally useful with all the hard counters. Assassin class, but sucks at assasination, lol.

Inb4 new vampire skill line gives cloak to all classes

NBs are definitely weak in PvP, but I think the question is specifically about PvE (as title states).

Schattenfluegel

They are all close to each other....Necro is First Choise in Raidgroups, because of the Ult.

Its not about how good Stamclasses are. Its more about practising Rota and working/playing long with your class. They can ALL be strong But it depends on you, on practising your rota - not on itemsets (they are effecting your dmg maybe for 20-25%).

Aznarb

My healcro is happy with boneyard + woe cost reduced

SidraWillowsky

I just hit my highest DPS ever in a boss fight on my magden, so I'm beyond delighted with that... she feels crazy strong

Septimus_Magna

Very little has changed in terms of class/build strength, besides maybe Elf Bane for mag DKs.

Stamcro probably stays the strongest dps spec but they probably wont use any different sets, skills or rotations.
Aegis Caller could be nice for stam builds in fights where AOE dmg output is important, I picked up a couple pieces on my tank yesterday and the dmg seemed decent compared to the base tooltip.

Joxer61

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

I just hit my highest DPS ever in a boss fight on my magden, so I'm beyond delighted with that... she feels crazy strong

do share!!! I have a stamden cuz im a rebel like that...lol

thadjarvis

PvE

Nothing meta altering really as the top Mag and top Stam in terms of damage received the relatively largest buffs:

MagDK got buffs to DPS, sustain, and utility (synergy+Asylum); only build with rotation change beyond a small tweak
StamCro benefits the most from the new Aegis set due to DoT passive

Magden got a DPS bump. Magden is not often used but seem to be climbing over the past 6-9 months.

All other DD's got a meaningful sustain buff, but no build changing elements.

Note Necro's had the functionality of skills change. Some are taking a little time re-learning the timing a bit.

I don't know the answer but it's a potentially meta affecting: is it effectively harder or easier for DK tanks to keep up stagger? IE, is the group utility value of StamDK higher or lower?

Joxer61

thadjarvis wrote: »

PvE

Nothing meta altering really as the top Mag and top Stam in terms of damage received the relatively largest buffs:

MagDK got buffs to DPS, sustain, and utility (synergy+Asylum); only build with rotation change beyond a small tweak
StamCro benefits the most from the new Aegis set due to DoT passive

Magden got a DPS bump. Magden is not often used but seem to be climbing over the past 6-9 months.

All other DD's got a meaningful sustain buff, but no build changing elements.

Note Necro's had the functionality of skills change. Some are taking a little time re-learning the timing a bit.

I don't know the answer but it's a potentially meta affecting: is it effectively harder or easier for DK tanks to keep up stagger? IE, is the group utility value of StamDK higher or lower?

meta smeta...could care less about that stupid word....ruins most games as people try and chase it. Means diddly really, just glad Warden got some love, as well as others.

thadjarvis

I mained magden for DD prior to Elswyr so I'm certainly not a meta player, but I do enjoy understanding the insights meta theory-crafting provides...

Caring about which classes got more benefits is to some degree a meta-ish mindset

kijima

thadjarvis wrote: »

PvE

Nothing meta altering really as the top Mag and top Stam in terms of damage received the relatively largest buffs:

MagDK got buffs to DPS, sustain, and utility (synergy+Asylum); only build with rotation change beyond a small tweak
StamCro benefits the most from the new Aegis set due to DoT passive

Magden got a DPS bump. Magden is not often used but seem to be climbing over the past 6-9 months.

All other DD's got a meaningful sustain buff, but no build changing elements.

Note Necro's had the functionality of skills change. Some are taking a little time re-learning the timing a bit.

I don't know the answer but it's a potentially meta affecting: is it effectively harder or easier for DK tanks to keep up stagger? IE, is the group utility value of StamDK higher or lower?

I'd be interested in your thoughts re: PvP

Joxer61

thadjarvis wrote: »

I mained magden for DD prior to Elswyr so I'm certainly not a meta player, but I do enjoy understanding the insights meta theory-crafting provides...

Caring about which classes got more benefits is to some degree a meta-ish mindset

lol, maybe a tad meta minded...…

thadjarvis

kijima wrote: »

I'd be interested in your thoughts re: PvP

I don't play enough classes on PvP to review each but can include some factual points FYI.

2h stam changes due related to OB change:

• Dizzy into Medium attack style will not rely on that stun anymore: potentially loose a skill slot, sustain, and combo speed.
• Truth set changed
• Reduced damage in CP from OB
• Reduced Onslaught damage
• New snare added

Eg: my stamplar will be least effected, my Stamsorc damage goes down the most and using streak stun for combo more will often will take me more practice, my Stamden may consider slotting FG stun, my StamDK friend will be adding fossilize to build

Subset of other changes

• Blastbone's will leap to target more reliably but there have also been several reports that it can be purged
• Flame Lashers effected by OB change too
• Leap telegraph easier to react to
• Nova got a telegraph
• Various old set changes and new sets to be fleshed out on usefulness on Live
• Vamp drain no longer is an instant stun effecting common Magden and Magcro builds in particular
• Block mechanic change effects animation canceling options and timing

Arjuna1696

With the Glacial Presence passive buff, my Mag Warden is feeling much stronger, and thematically more interesting!

fiender66

For PVE mag-plar is the strongest, at least in my hands. Dunno for PVP

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

@thadjarvis
Hi, if you don't mind answering this for me.

I read the PNs, but I don't really understand how dizzying swing will work.
It says it stuns on off balance but with changes to off balance, it doesn't stun (when you weave heavy attack)?

But you mention it's not going to stun at all, is why your friends are using alternative methods.

Thanks

thadjarvis

@Wrecking_Blow_Spam

New Dizzy
"Slam an enemy with an upward swing, dealing 1848 Physical Damage and setting them Off Balance for 7 seconds. Hitting an enemy that is already Off Balance stuns them for 2 seconds. Targets that are immune to Off Balance are snared by 40% for 2 seconds."

New Off balance
"Updated Off Balance to behave more consistently across content in the game.
Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.
Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.
Off Balance is no longer consumed on targets from Heavy Attacks or abilities."

Previously if you hit dizzies the target would be permanently off balance meaning that you'd have the exploiter CP passive up and able to medium attack for a stun whenever target would run off hard CC immunity. Thus, a player could use this as their only stun with the ability to apply stuns as frequently as permitted.

Now with the OB cooldown, a player can no longer use just Dizzy/Medium to stun targets as frequently as the CC immunity timer. Thus, many players with builds like that are adding a hard CC skill. Secondly, it's a pretty significant drop in damage in CP content as OB can only be up about 30% of the time vs 100% previously.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

thadjarvis wrote: »

@Wrecking_Blow_Spam

New Dizzy
"Slam an enemy with an upward swing, dealing 1848 Physical Damage and setting them Off Balance for 7 seconds. Hitting an enemy that is already Off Balance stuns them for 2 seconds. Targets that are immune to Off Balance are snared by 40% for 2 seconds."

New Off balance
"Updated Off Balance to behave more consistently across content in the game.
Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.
Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.
Off Balance is no longer consumed on targets from Heavy Attacks or abilities."

Previously if you hit dizzies the target would be permanently off balance meaning that you'd have the exploiter CP passive up and able to medium attack for a stun whenever target would run off hard CC immunity. Thus, a player could use this as their only stun with the ability to apply stuns as frequently as permitted.

Now with the OB cooldown, a player can no longer use just Dizzy/Medium to stun targets as frequently as the CC immunity timer. Thus, many players with builds like that are adding a hard CC skill. Secondly, it's a pretty significant drop in damage in CP content as OB can only be up about 30% of the time vs 100% previously.

@thadjarvis
Thanks for all this information, really appreciate it 👍

I get you, so in battlegrounds there isn't a damage drop off compared to cyrodill, shame they gutted my all time favourite skill (hence my name) many times 😆
It should be still fine for me as I mostly play battlegrounds.
Thanks again