An idea to give bretons -something- for stam builds.

Karmen

RavenSworn wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

We all know the Breton hero in the cinematics is using a stam build, so lets not pretend bretons can't do stam well. they should have SOMETHING for stam, maybe shouldn't be the best stam dps race but racial traits are at most a 10% difference so no reason not to give them SOMETHING.

Change the magicka cost reduction passive to grant stam cost reduction as well, and maybe a bit of weapon (but not spell) damage. then you could choose to get the bonus weapon damage and stam recovery, or go magicka for full bonuses but not get bonus spell damage.

U sure? I think he rerolled to a necromancer.

Next patch he will reroll to a stamplar because actually it's op.

Kadoin

I swear the forums are filled with people that ask for nonsensical buffs just to buff their subpar PvP performance and claim its for PvE.

No.

VaranisArano

Deathlord92 wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Only if they give Imperial and Wood Elf Magic builds.

I don’t see what wrong with giving them both some magic imperial like abnur Tharn are great mages then there’s the bosmer spinners 🙂

Archmage Shalidor is a great mage and a Nord! Heck, they've got the magical College of Winterhold with other Nord mages. Therefore Nords should get magicka bonuses, right?

Really?
There are always going to be exceptional individuals and examples of individuals who don't fit the stereotypes of their TES race.
That doesn't mean you can point to those exceptions to the rule to justify changing the lore of racial abilities/strengths to suit your preferred build in ESO.

Frankly, the whole "Oh, but the Bretons have a bunch of knights so stamina" or "Imperials have some prominent mages so magicka" argument really doesn't hold water when we're talking about a TES race. Every single race has a variety of warriors, thieves, and mages. Its almost like those are character archetypes of fantasy RPGs or something. The existence of Orc Wisewomen and Urag gro-Shub does not make the Orcs a magically inclined race on the whole.

I say this having played a Breton Stam Sorc DD since before One Tamriel. It's viable. Not optimal, but certainly viable.
Thus I'm not a fan of throwing out the lore and past TES gameplay on Bretons (or any other races, for that matter) in favor of begging for gameplay benefits for my builds.

Maxx7410

No bretons are a magic race go away with your stmina nonsense!

Ri_Khan

I would be careful what you ask for. Khajiit got worked over with some bs hybrid magicka passives and lost what made them great at certain roles. Now they're just mediocre at everything.

Anhedonie

Give Nords 900 spell damage. Arch mage of mages guild is a nord.

Xarc

VaranisArano wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Only if they give Imperial and Wood Elf Magic builds.

I don’t see what wrong with giving them both some magic imperial like abnur Tharn are great mages then there’s the bosmer spinners 🙂

Archmage Shalidor is a great mage and a Nord! Heck, they've got the magical College of Winterhold with other Nord mages. Therefore Nords should get magicka bonuses, right?

Really?
There are always going to be exceptional individuals and examples of individuals who don't fit the stereotypes of their TES race.
That doesn't mean you can point to those exceptions to the rule to justify changing the lore of racial abilities/strengths to suit your preferred build in ESO.

Frankly, the whole "Oh, but the Bretons have a bunch of knights so stamina" or "Imperials have some prominent mages so magicka" argument really doesn't hold water when we're talking about a TES race. Every single race has a variety of warriors, thieves, and mages. Its almost like those are character archetypes of fantasy RPGs or something. The existence of Orc Wisewomen and Urag gro-Shub does not make the Orcs a magically inclined race on the whole.

I say this having played a Breton Stam Sorc DD since before One Tamriel. It's viable. Not optimal, but certainly viable.
Thus I'm not a fan of throwing out the lore and past TES gameplay on Bretons (or any other races, for that matter) in favor of begging for gameplay benefits for my builds.

I heard shalidor is a npc, he doesnt need racial bonuses to be excellent. But maybe im wrong

VaranisArano

Xarcus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Only if they give Imperial and Wood Elf Magic builds.

I don’t see what wrong with giving them both some magic imperial like abnur Tharn are great mages then there’s the bosmer spinners 🙂

Archmage Shalidor is a great mage and a Nord! Heck, they've got the magical College of Winterhold with other Nord mages. Therefore Nords should get magicka bonuses, right?

Really?
There are always going to be exceptional individuals and examples of individuals who don't fit the stereotypes of their TES race.
That doesn't mean you can point to those exceptions to the rule to justify changing the lore of racial abilities/strengths to suit your preferred build in ESO.

Frankly, the whole "Oh, but the Bretons have a bunch of knights so stamina" or "Imperials have some prominent mages so magicka" argument really doesn't hold water when we're talking about a TES race. Every single race has a variety of warriors, thieves, and mages. Its almost like those are character archetypes of fantasy RPGs or something. The existence of Orc Wisewomen and Urag gro-Shub does not make the Orcs a magically inclined race on the whole.

I say this having played a Breton Stam Sorc DD since before One Tamriel. It's viable. Not optimal, but certainly viable.
Thus I'm not a fan of throwing out the lore and past TES gameplay on Bretons (or any other races, for that matter) in favor of begging for gameplay benefits for my builds.

I heard shalidor is a npc, he doesnt need racial bonuses to be excellent. But maybe im wrong

So are Abnur Tharn and the Bosmer Spinners, who were being used as the example for why Imperials and Bosmer races should get magicka passives. Which was the exact example I was responding to.
But nice job pulling that one out of context.

Exceptional individuals within a TES race or even groups that don't match the stereotypes such as Redguard priests, Orc Wisewomen, and Nord mages at the College of Winterhold aren't actually a good argument in favor of overhauling TES lore and gameplay on inborn racial strengths.

ZOS_Mika

We have removed some unnecessary name calling and rude comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil, constructive and on topic. Thank you for your understanding.

zvavi

VaranisArano wrote: »

So are Abnur Tharn and the Bosmer Spinners, who were being used as the example for why Imperials and Bosmer races should get magicka passives. Which was the exact example I was responding to.
But nice job pulling that one out of context.

Exceptional individuals within a TES race or even groups that don't match the stereotypes such as Redguard priests, Orc Wisewomen, and Nord mages at the College of Winterhold aren't actually a good argument in favor of overhauling TES lore and gameplay on inborn racial strengths.

Well said, tbh if we go by the logic of everyone has everything, then everyone should get sneak passives, mage passives, fighty passives, regen passives, defense passives, and all races can be exactly the same because of that one npc that "could do it". Races in tes lore are unique, and i dont want to see that gone. I mean look at the bosmer passives uproar they got because they removed one passive that is lore related. I dont mind it, but i totally get those who care.

hakan

this thread again..

Just because you use stamina doesnt mean your genetics have to be stamina related.

im studying engineering, i dont have to have innate talent for it for example.

AcadianPaladin

If my Bosmer mage is 'exceptional' enough to run around without a soul and save the world (several times), it does not seem unreasonable that she could have been born with racial traits not generally associated with her race.

Banana

My Bretons don't want to be rolling around in the mud with the stamina folk

Skullderic

Isn't anything stopping you for making a Stam Breton ~ Just DO IT! (Some sets & CP placement maybe requird)

BlueRaven

If this was a normal TES game there would not be bonuses for stam or mag in any race. If they just stayed closer to the single player games in ESO’s basic game systems, we would not be having these discussions.

MEBengalsFan2001

dazee wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Bretons can be good at stamina builds already. They don't need to worry about running magicka glyphs and stuff.

Since when do PVE stam builds run magicka glyphs in the first place? if theyre not going to get rid of racial passives very least they can do is give every race some minor bonus to the one theyre not "supposed" to excel at. this is called balance.

People want to play the race that fits the character they have in mind. Intelligent, creative people arent thinking of what will be most OP when they pick a race, they are thinking what race fits this characters concept best? and they should not be punished for it.

Here is a very stupid idea....

The first racial passive that requires skill points should always be 1250 health, 1096 Magika and 1096 Stamina.

Like I said, stupid idea.

TigressCreed

Please NO MORE hybrid builds, classes and nerfing. This game will be dead if it keeps catering to this. Yes would be nice to play like Skyrim and have any race be anything. But this isn’t Skyrim. And you CAN be anything just won’t be a meta build for vet content. Whole point of each race is that it’s unique and each should do certain things.

Coppes

TigressCreed wrote: »

Please NO MORE hybrid builds, classes and nerfing. This game will be dead if it keeps catering to this. Yes would be nice to play like Skyrim and have any race be anything. But this isn’t Skyrim. And you CAN be anything just won’t be a meta build for vet content. Whole point of each race is that it’s unique and each should do certain things.

Unique-ness comes from each races background and the way they look.

It’s not generic male and generic Elf. It’s a High Elf from Summerset, obviously from the fair skin and extreme height.

It’s not a basic black person, it’s a Redguard, from their dark skin and curled hair. They’re from Hammerfell.

You don’t need racial passives to make a race interesting.

VaranisArano

BlueRaven wrote: »

If this was a normal TES game there would not be bonuses for stam or mag in any race. If they just stayed closer to the single player games in ESO’s basic game systems, we would not be having these discussions.

Really?
I guess I was imagining the racial bonus to max magicka that Altmer get in Skyrim. And in Oblivion. And in Morrowind.
Or maybe not.

Oh and for Bretons...
Morrowind: racial ability that increases max magicka and magicka resistance, plus racial bonuses to Intelligence and Willpower (increasing your magicka), negatives to Agililty and Endurance (affects health and max fatigue - Morrowind's version of stamina)

Oblivion: hmm, same as Morrowind. Again, racial bonuses to max magicka and magicka resistance, Intelligence and Willpower. Negatives to Agility (archery) and Endurance, resulting in two negatives to Fatigue (melee damage). Breton women really get the shaft here with 3 minuses to Fatigue and only one positive in Willpower.

Skyrim: Bethesda really simplified the racial system from other games and removed a lot of the negatives associated with racial choices, but we've still got the Breton magicka resistance and a racial power to absorb magicka.

Look, if what you really meant was "In past TES games, by the time you hit end game, your starting racial bonuses didn't make a difference" then you should have said that. That much is true - if only because previous TES games didn't really have an end game beyond "Whelp, you finished all the quests...uh, time to muck around, I guess?" Unlike ESO, there's no problem that can't be solved by overleveling until you've fixed all your initial weaknesses.
On the other hand, claiming that previous games didn't hand out magicka or their equivalent of stamina bonuses to any race is just plain wrong.

BlueRaven

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

If this was a normal TES game there would not be bonuses for stam or mag in any race. If they just stayed closer to the single player games in ESO’s basic game systems, we would not be having these discussions.

Really?
I guess I was imagining the racial bonus to max magicka that Altmer get in Skyrim. And in Oblivion. And in Morrowind.
Or maybe not.

Oh and for Bretons...
Morrowind: racial ability that increases max magicka and magicka resistance, plus racial bonuses to Intelligence and Willpower (increasing your magicka), negatives to Agililty and Endurance (affects health and max fatigue - Morrowind's version of stamina)

Oblivion: hmm, same as Morrowind. Again, racial bonuses to max magicka and magicka resistance, Intelligence and Willpower. Negatives to Agility (archery) and Endurance, resulting in two negatives to Fatigue (melee damage). Breton women really get the shaft here with 3 minuses to Fatigue and only one positive in Willpower.

Skyrim: Bethesda really simplified the racial system from other games and removed a lot of the negatives associated with racial choices, but we've still got the Breton magicka resistance and a racial power to absorb magicka.

Look, if what you really meant was "In past TES games, by the time you hit end game, your starting racial bonuses didn't make a difference" then you should have said that. That much is true - if only because previous TES games didn't really have an end game beyond "Whelp, you finished all the quests...uh, time to muck around, I guess?" Unlike ESO, there's no problem that can't be solved by overleveling until you've fixed all your initial weaknesses.
On the other hand, claiming that previous games didn't hand out magicka or their equivalent of stamina bonuses to any race is just plain wrong.

Yes, I am sorry I misspoke I forgot about "Fortify Magicka". High Elves were the only race that had a bonus to one of their stats as a passive. No race for example had a bonus to stamina. And only two had a regen bonus (Breton and Redguard). So seven out of ten had no form of regen in stam or Mag (I believe). So my point still stands, they should have modeled ESO closer to Skyrim passives that were HEAVILY dependent on other game functions.

Here is the complete list of High Elf passive;

+10 Illusion (level 25)
+5 Alteration (level 20)
+5 Conjuration (level 20)
+5 Destruction (level 20)
+5 Enchanting (level 20)
+5 Restoration (level 20)

Starting spells
Flames (Destruction). All races start with this particular spell.
Healing (Restoration). All races start with this particular spell.
Fury (Illusion)

Special abilities
Highborn: Regenerate magicka faster for 60 seconds, once a day.
Fortify Magicka: Passive increase in magicka by 50 points. If the player is a vampire and the Necromage perk is taken from the Restoration perk tree, this will increase by 25% to 62 points.

And from all of that they focused on "Fortify Magicka" and decided to give many of the races a version of it. None of the races should be defined as a Stamina or Magika race, but that is what we have now and that is why we have all these complaints. It's just bad design.

VaranisArano

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

If this was a normal TES game there would not be bonuses for stam or mag in any race. If they just stayed closer to the single player games in ESO’s basic game systems, we would not be having these discussions.

Really?
I guess I was imagining the racial bonus to max magicka that Altmer get in Skyrim. And in Oblivion. And in Morrowind.
Or maybe not.

Oh and for Bretons...
Morrowind: racial ability that increases max magicka and magicka resistance, plus racial bonuses to Intelligence and Willpower (increasing your magicka), negatives to Agililty and Endurance (affects health and max fatigue - Morrowind's version of stamina)

Oblivion: hmm, same as Morrowind. Again, racial bonuses to max magicka and magicka resistance, Intelligence and Willpower. Negatives to Agility (archery) and Endurance, resulting in two negatives to Fatigue (melee damage). Breton women really get the shaft here with 3 minuses to Fatigue and only one positive in Willpower.

Skyrim: Bethesda really simplified the racial system from other games and removed a lot of the negatives associated with racial choices, but we've still got the Breton magicka resistance and a racial power to absorb magicka.

Look, if what you really meant was "In past TES games, by the time you hit end game, your starting racial bonuses didn't make a difference" then you should have said that. That much is true - if only because previous TES games didn't really have an end game beyond "Whelp, you finished all the quests...uh, time to muck around, I guess?" Unlike ESO, there's no problem that can't be solved by overleveling until you've fixed all your initial weaknesses.
On the other hand, claiming that previous games didn't hand out magicka or their equivalent of stamina bonuses to any race is just plain wrong.

Yes, I am sorry I misspoke I forgot about "Fortify Magicka". High Elves were the only race that had a bonus to one of their stats as a passive. No race for example had a bonus to stamina. And only two had a regen bonus (Breton and Redguard). So seven out of ten had no form of regen in stam or Mag (I believe). So my point still stands, they should have modeled ESO closer to Skyrim passives that were HEAVILY dependent on other game functions.

Here is the complete list of High Elf passive;

+10 Illusion (level 25)
+5 Alteration (level 20)
+5 Conjuration (level 20)
+5 Destruction (level 20)
+5 Enchanting (level 20)
+5 Restoration (level 20)

Starting spells
Flames (Destruction). All races start with this particular spell.
Healing (Restoration). All races start with this particular spell.
Fury (Illusion)

Special abilities
Highborn: Regenerate magicka faster for 60 seconds, once a day.
Fortify Magicka: Passive increase in magicka by 50 points. If the player is a vampire and the Necromage perk is taken from the Restoration perk tree, this will increase by 25% to 62 points.

And from all of that they focused on "Fortify Magicka" and decided to give many of the races a version of it. None of the races should be defined as a Stamina or Magika race, but that is what we have now and that is why we have all these complaints. It's just bad design.

If you were trying to say that ESO should have gone in a more "Skyrim-esque" direction, then sure, I can see the point you were aiming to make.

I think ESO leaned harder on games like Morrowind and Oblivion where the races did have very distinct advantages and disadvantages for spellcasting or weapon-based playstyles, as befits ESO's own gameplay. Given the way ESO evolved leading up to the latest racial overhaul to have a very distinct split between magicka and stamina gameplay, I'm not surprised to see them go with the older style TES games as an inspiration when it came to looking for extra racial passives. Skyrim was pretty bland in comparison.

Stx

If all you care about is min/maxing for raids, then you will probably just roll whatever race is best for your preferred build.

But if you are more casual or like RP or just like to solo vet dungeons or pvp, then you can make builds that work for any race/role combo.

For instance, 7% cost reduction on shade/cloak and extra magicka to cast those abilities sounds pretty nice for a stamblade to me. And extra spell resistance is always useful.