UI with MS or Juli?

Stevie6

I’m currently using MS, Juli, and IH (grothdar sometimes) and I can basically solo a lot of world bosses and some vet dungeons. I watched Xynode’s YouTube easy sorc video and it would seem a lot easier to use. It’s getting to the point of not being able to do rotations anymore. So, I need a basic heavy attack build. I started farming solo for UI and obtain the following items in a couple of days:

Two lightning staves (infused,precise)
Neckless
No rings
Jack, boots, belt (divines)

Will UI work with either MS or Juli? I have ilambris, valkin skoria, grothdar, IH, and others. Probably use grothdar. I’m also considering New Moon. The set works well on my stamden. If anyone has any other combo with UI your thoughts would be appreciated. Thx.

WrathOfInnos

Why not just combine Juli and MS? Or if you are planning to do a lot of heavy attacks then NMA can be a good option, I just don’t like the effect it has on sustain with any high drain rotations.

zvavi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Why not just combine Juli and MS? Or if you are planning to do a lot of heavy attacks then NMA can be a good option, I just don’t like the effect it has on sustain with any high drain rotations.

If he plans on like 3 heavies every 12 seconds~ i think UI comes on top (with lightning/resto staves).
But i think that 3 heavies in 12 seconds rotation is a bad idea by itself... Waaaayyyy too much sustain gain, when i was running around with my 8 seconds rotation i refused to put more than 1 heavy in because of that, still had enough resources to off heal too.

Mindcr0w

If you already have UI pieces (rng on getting the lightning staff is usually the hardest part of putting the easy sorc build together) why not just also go get IA?

That said if I had to pair UI with one of those
Sets I'd probably go MS.

Stevie6

Ok thx for the responses. I’m still grinding for the rings. I’m sure it’s going to take a while.

Juhasow

Try Infallible aether/mage set. It seems to fit the best to the heavy attack setup You're looking for.

Septimus_Magna

Next patch I will try Molag Kena, NMA and Mother Sorrow on a heavy attack magosrc build. Just curious to see if sustain is possible on a heavy attack build with 2x 5% cost increase.

My idea is to proc Molag Kena after casting the most expensive skills so you dont really feel the cost increase while heavy attacking. It would be cool to make it work with blue buff food but potent witchmothers is probably not a massive difference dmg wise.

Grianasteri

Stevie6 wrote: »

I’m currently using MS, Juli, and IH (grothdar sometimes) and I can basically solo a lot of world bosses and some vet dungeons. I watched Xynode’s YouTube easy sorc video and it would seem a lot easier to use. It’s getting to the point of not being able to do rotations anymore. So, I need a basic heavy attack build. I started farming solo for UI and obtain the following items in a couple of days:

Two lightning staves (infused,precise)
Neckless
No rings
Jack, boots, belt (divines)

Will UI work with either MS or Juli? I have ilambris, valkin skoria, grothdar, IH, and others. Probably use grothdar. I’m also considering New Moon. The set works well on my stamden. If anyone has any other combo with UI your thoughts would be appreciated. Thx.

OK, here are the thoughts of someone who has been farming for Undaunted Infiltrator for over 300 runs of Arx Corinium... DONT BOTHER. By all means, have a go, you could get lucky, I dropped 2 Burning Spell Weave fire staffs in a dozen runs of City of Ash... but I have run Arx Corinium over 300 times and NEVER dropped a UI Shock staff, the drop rate is ridiculously low.

I do not actually run the Xynode build, I run something similar, harder to sustain but a bit more damage (although I am using Infalible Aether). If you need a heavy attack build then I think the Xynode build is one of the best out there and it does still work without UI, go for it.

Anyway in short, yes just run Mothers Sorrow, or Julianos. The DPS difference for the average player is unlikely to be game breaking.

Me, I will continue grinding Arx Corinium till my dying days or until I do drop that Shock staff, its a matter of principle now. That bloody dungeon will not beat me!

Stevie6

Yeah the shock staves and necklace dropped on the first couple of days. Then Medusa...all Medusa lol. Must be the RNG gods hard at work. I’ve been trying vet mode with MS, Juli, and IH. It works until the final boss. Then I switch juli for plague doctor for extra tanking. Monster sets should be health/resource return. IH does work but kind of hit/miss.

I do heavy attacks with the above setup and it’s been working so far but I wanted something a little easier. I don’t do trials or really hard vet dungeons like SCP do to spinal/nerve damage. My fingers and hands just don’t respond (lost dexterity). I’m doing good just to hit around 12k dps. In game lag is a real killer. Skills just don’t fire off. I loved my old pet sorc..life was a lot better. So, I have to adjust to the ever changing Nerf Online.

Bottom line..looking to bring up my overall base damage w/o crit damage...crit damage is just rng..can’t rely on it...not in my case. 😟. My base spell damage is at 2400 buffed up to 2800 to 2900 and before someone says git good or l2p, rotations are out.

kylewwefan

Uhm. It sounds like your trying to find or create a build more tailored to what you can do now.

And it seems like one bar, heavy attack and maybe a skill or two here and there?

I’m just guessing, I don’t need to know the entire situation.

So, tweeking your cp could majorly help. Put a bunch of points into staff expert and pull all out from direct damage. Buff thermotaurge up way up and spell erosion maybe.

Grothdar melts stuff and is probably one of the strongest sets in the game imo.

Julianos and New Moon Accolyte is gonna give you some nasty stats, probably close to 4K spell damage. I did a little try with it at one time.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502180/crafted-armor-the-maelstrom-sorc#latest

Grianasteri

Stevie6 wrote: »

Yeah the shock staves and necklace dropped on the first couple of days.

I feel like crying.

Moving on... I have carpel tunnel and RSI in my right wrist and elbow and Bursitis in my right shoulder... rotations are... sore, certainly after a while, hence my appreciation of a heavy attack build.

If you really are mainly heavy attacking, have you considered sets like Queens Elegance (easy to get) and Knight Slayer (difficult to get) and Infallible Aether (surprisingly easy to get, but is trial gear).

Any combination of these strike me as viable options in the absence of a full Undaunted Infiltrator (UI) set, or to pair with UI if/when you have it...

I have tried literally only heavy attacking on a dummy parse, and it is possible to do way more than 12k, provided you can lay down wall of elements, self buff and keep your pets up. I use Infallible aether and any number of other sets work to partner with it, Julianos, Mothers Sorrow, Queens Elegance etc, and I use Grothdarr as the monster set, or Zaan for single target.

thadjarvis

@Grianasteri

If using a Heavy Attack Sorc in order to avoid physical pain, it's possible a channel skill could work too:

HA Sorc: hold down button for 2seconds, tap another button, repeat
Stamplar: tap one button, wait 1.5-2s?, tap another button, repeat (it's the longest cast time / channel spam skill in ESO)

Why? Depending on the health causes/symptons the tap-tap-REST-tap-tap-REST may work better for some than HOLD-tap-HOLD-tap. On the HA Sorc the percent of time under tension is much higher than jabs, which could aggravate some issues. Who knows, but thought it might be worth a shot for some folks.

Another thing I would try if say I had a relative with a similar issue would be to use some sort of foot based input mapping what Left Click by default does to it. That would probably work best for HA rotation unless a high sensitivity one could be found.

zvavi

Stamplar is recast lower than 1.5 heavy while ha sorc is above 2.

thadjarvis

zvavi wrote: »

Stamplar is recast lower than 1.5 heavy while ha sorc is above 2.

Understood. HA sorc requires continued casting (constant muscle tension) while channeled skills require a tap followed by a rest interval (mention stamplar as the rest interval is longer than rapid strikes or wrecking blow I believe). Different physical conditions potentially would respond differently to the kinds of engagement. It's a 3rd option to try outside of HA and LA-instant cast rotations.

Stevie6

Wow..thank you all for your responses. I'm going to give everything a try.

zvavi

thadjarvis wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Stamplar is recast lower than 1.5 heavy while ha sorc is above 2.

Understood. HA sorc requires continued casting (constant muscle tension) while channeled skills require a tap followed by a rest interval (mention stamplar as the rest interval is longer than rapid strikes or wrecking blow I believe). Different physical conditions potentially would respond differently to the kinds of engagement. It's a 3rd option to try outside of HA and LA-instant cast rotations.

Fair. My only problem is that i am just slow not medical

Dagoth_Rac

kylewwefan wrote: »

Julianos and New Moon Accolyte is gonna give you some nasty stats, probably close to 4K spell damage.

If the goal is a build that does not require too much hand movement due to pain or other physical conditions, I think double pet sorc with lightning heavy attacks is best. Lightning heavy attacks require you to hold mouse button but no constant button pressing. And pets can do damage with no button presses (although activating the scamp pulse every 10 seconds is good damage if it is not a problem for you). But ... pets do not gain any damage from spell damage stat. A sorc pet does the same damage with 0 spell damage as 4000 spell damage. So Julianos and New Moon Acolyte seem like a sub-optimal choice. Your heavy attacks will hit hard but your pets will hit like wet noodles. Something like Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow and Grothdarr might do a better job of having heavy attacks hit not quite as hard but pets will hit much harder.

I also think infused staves with flame and shock glyphs are a good choice. The spell damage weapon glyph does nothing for your pets. And the precise trait is great if running a meta build doing a billion DPS, because the percentage increase will be a big deal. But if non-meta, the constant passive damage and status effects of infused elemental glyphs are a really solid choice.

Also avoid bloodthirsty. I don't think it applies to pets and I wouldn't like using a trait that does not apply to 4 of my 10 skill slots.

Plus, max magicka and arcane give you bigger Hardened Ward/Empowered Ward. And that might be best survival tool. You can use that proactively in a more relaxed way compared to frantic, reactive button mashing if you were to go with heals or dodge rolling or blocking or being in a constant motion.

T3hasiangod

It's been tested by a few people at this point. UI ends up losing out to a few other more readily available sets.

MS + NMA
MS + Juli
NMA + IA
Juli + IA

All of those combinations are easier to obtain and does not require the waste of 150 transmutes on a dead-end set.

Please do not waste time farming for the set. Do yourself a favor and spend the time farming the gold needed to buy MS pieces or farm IA instead.

Kahnak

T3hasiangod wrote: »

It's been tested by a few people at this point. UI ends up losing out to a few other more readily available sets.

MS + NMA
MS + Juli
NMA + IA
Juli + IA

All of those combinations are easier to obtain and does not require the waste of 150 transmutes on a dead-end set.

Please do not waste time farming for the set. Do yourself a favor and spend the time farming the gold needed to buy MS pieces or farm IA instead.

The Asian will show us the way.

zvavi

T3hasiangod wrote: »

MS + NMA
NMA + IA

I second those combinations, probably the ones you will get most of, while doing a heavy attack build, and one that is more beneficial to try and do less heavy attacks, unlike UI, that becomes "good" only if the main thing you do is heavy attacking, which is dps loss by itself.

Stevie6

i did some basic testing and the heavy attack build works to a point for those of us that have nerve / physical problems.

MS + NMA + IH (fav monster set) will keep you alive with about 20k - 30k dps (milage May very)

UI (with spell dmg on jewelry) + NMA will do about the same. DPS crit dmg is rng and not figured in. I’m looking at basic damage for general gameplay.

Grianasteri

T3hasiangod wrote: »

It's been tested by a few people at this point. UI ends up losing out to a few other more readily available sets.

MS + NMA
MS + Juli
NMA + IA
Juli + IA

All of those combinations are easier to obtain and does not require the waste of 150 transmutes on a dead-end set.

Please do not waste time farming for the set. Do yourself a favor and spend the time farming the gold needed to buy MS pieces or farm IA instead.

@T3hasiangod This is interesting, because Xynode Easy Sorc build works on the premise that these combinations have been tested, and UI remains the best option over and above them...

Personally I get similar results using IA+Juli or IA+MS. I use my own variation of the build anyway, and my UI set is far from optimised so more dps can squeezed out of it.

How can two content providers test the same sets and get different results... who to trust...

zvavi

U guys... You will make me regress to a heavy attack build cause sustain is that bad.

Stevie6

Tried the same setups again after patch and it works to a point. Iceheart is no longer reliable. Basically, you get a 4800 shield and that’s a big nothing burger. Might have to make NMA in heavy armor for more resists and health for vet bosses. Use grothdar or anything but IH.

The LAG is really bad now after patch. FPS is down to around 60 on average. The lag factor in n/vet dungeons was bad before and now after the patch. The connection to Dallas,TX is still around 29ms but connect to the server and wow..laggggggggggggg. 140ms to 999+ms in all content. The addon were turned off and lag happened. Turned on..samething...lag. It’s a software problem on the developer’s end.

Grianasteri

zvavi wrote: »

U guys... You will make me regress to a heavy attack build cause sustain is that bad.

Am I the only one that sees the sustain nerfs as a very intentional and effective way to slow down dps? Folk are trying to kick out the same rotations at the same pace and obviously that is just not possible, particularly for the average player.

It seems to me an artificial way to slow dps down. Now the effect in pvp compared to pve are another matter. Try having the sustain to burn through a tank in pvp... not so much fun.

T3hasiangod

Grianasteri wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

It's been tested by a few people at this point. UI ends up losing out to a few other more readily available sets.

MS + NMA
MS + Juli
NMA + IA
Juli + IA

All of those combinations are easier to obtain and does not require the waste of 150 transmutes on a dead-end set.

Please do not waste time farming for the set. Do yourself a favor and spend the time farming the gold needed to buy MS pieces or farm IA instead.

@T3hasiangod This is interesting, because Xynode Easy Sorc build works on the premise that these combinations have been tested, and UI remains the best option over and above them...

Personally I get similar results using IA+Juli or IA+MS. I use my own variation of the build anyway, and my UI set is far from optimised so more dps can squeezed out of it.

How can two content providers test the same sets and get different results... who to trust...

Has he actually tested the builds though? I have released at least one video showcasing the Combat Metric reports from my parses and describing the methodology behind each parse. I have shown my evidence that his set up is weaker than what I managed to come up with.

Naftal

Grianasteri wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

It's been tested by a few people at this point. UI ends up losing out to a few other more readily available sets.

MS + NMA
MS + Juli
NMA + IA
Juli + IA

All of those combinations are easier to obtain and does not require the waste of 150 transmutes on a dead-end set.

Please do not waste time farming for the set. Do yourself a favor and spend the time farming the gold needed to buy MS pieces or farm IA instead.

This is interesting, because Xynode Easy Sorc build works on the premise that these combinations have been tested, and UI remains the best option over and above them...

Doesn't it work on the premise that it's easy to use?

EDIT: If you mean best for heavy attacks. I don't think Xynode ever makes builds that use meta gear.

Grianasteri

Naftal wrote: »

Doesn't it work on the premise that it's easy to use?

EDIT: If you mean best for heavy attacks. I don't think Xynode ever makes builds that use meta gear.

Indeed that is one of the principles behind the build. And it IS easy to use, very easy. Acquiring the sets is not so easy!

My point is Xynode states he has tested different combinations and each release of the build (as with all content providers) he says what sets (and skills) are now optimal. His latest still goes with UI.

As I say, personally I get similar results using MS or Juli, although with that said my UI set is NOT optimised.

Not sure what you mean viz heavy attacks and meta gear. The entire build is centred around heavy attacks, its a heavy attack build. And while I am aware I am starting to sound like a Xynode fan boy when I absolutely am not, I just happen to like using a variation of the Easy Sorc build... I do think plenty of Xynode builds use meta sets.

Grianasteri

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Has he actually tested the builds though? I have released at least one video showcasing the Combat Metric reports from my parses and describing the methodology behind each parse. I have shown my evidence that his set up is weaker than what I managed to come up with.

@T3hasiangod Well yes this is a fair point, who can say what testing has been done. I do recall seeing folk apparently in the know argue that extensive testing is carried out by Xynode.

Hey, I brows various content providers for inspiration, yours, Xynodes, Alcasts, Decimus, Hacktheminataur. Props to all you guys who spend time and effort producing good content.

I wonder, have you (or anyone else) tested Knight Slayer in the context of a heavy attack build like Easy Sorc? On paper it looks lovely, perhaps in combination with IA...
.

T3hasiangod

Grianasteri wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Has he actually tested the builds though? I have released at least one video showcasing the Combat Metric reports from my parses and describing the methodology behind each parse. I have shown my evidence that his set up is weaker than what I managed to come up with.

@T3hasiangod Well yes this is a fair point, who can say what testing has been done. I do recall seeing folk apparently in the know argue that extensive testing is carried out by Xynode.

Hey, I brows various content providers for inspiration, yours, Xynodes, Alcasts, Decimus, Hacktheminataur. Props to all you guys who spend time and effort producing good content.

I wonder, have you (or anyone else) tested Knight Slayer in the context of a heavy attack build like Easy Sorc? On paper it looks lovely, perhaps in combination with IA...
.

Knight Slayer is going to be weaker than a set like NMA. You're losing an armor bonus with the Max Health bonus, which ends up losing its overall effectiveness. Oblivion Damage also isn't boosted by CPs.

kylewwefan

I used the easy sorc build when the healing matriarch did about the same damage as the damaging one; and at that time the easy sorc was a pet less build.

The op is looking for a build that does good damage and survivable with minimal input. He/She stated rotations are out, and doesn’t want to rely on Crit.

It’s unclear as to what extent the OP can do with controller or kbm. I’ll assume pulling a trigger and mashing a button or two every now and then. Is bar swapping a thing? It’s often a big issue for game pad controller users.

Easy Sorc works on the premise of Buffing the daylights out of heavy attacks. Every tick of lightning stave damage got extra damage added to it by up and is. The newest iteration added a pet and possibly an inferno staff and Zaans even as an option.

I think Alcast had a one bar sorc with necropotence/plague doctor/ your choice of monster set. I had shareplayed of someone using that build and I can tell you nothing is gonna die quick, but you may be able to survive it. Because it gives you around 30k health, 40k+ max magic. Your shield size being limited by max health is why plague doctor is used.

Ive no idea what is best of the options at your disposal. Said you didn’t want to rely on Crit. Mother Sorrow would be on the chopping block. Maybe you could look into Rattlecage and Juliano’s? Spider Cultist and Netch? NMA/Mechanical Acuity could maybe work. I saw Ashen Grip finally got a monster buff

Once you get outside of Meta, there’s a whole world of options that may suit your needs better. Heavy armor is still an option. One pet or two or even none if you want.

A lot of these things are going to depend on how you can play them.