ZOS, fix your RNG 90 keys gone, no Ilambris medium

Infixo

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

Browiseth

it aint broke if it's doing its job innit

(that job being psuedo random and unpredictable)

SpacemanSpiff1

It's working as intended. They want you to grind that content.

nafensoriel

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

tmbrinks

18 tries. 1/6th of a chance of a given type/weight means a 3.8% of getting none of one specific weight/type. Sorry for your bad luck, but nowhere near a statistically relevant sample size.

r3turn2s3nd3r

At 18 coffers, your subset of 'draws' from the total population of 'draws' is simply statistically insignificant. It's nothing more than sampling error.

While you may not like it, if you were to add up results of ALL the coffers of EVERY SINGLE player ever then you could actually draw a conclusion as to whether it's 'rigged' or not.

Ackwalan

ZOS seems to have a time stamp included in the RNG. When the RNG is used within a small window of time, the result is an un-random pattern.

daemonios

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

Do you know that it's random to begin with? No skewed loot tables with duplicates of low-value weight/trait combinations to foster more grinding and function as an undaunted key sink? No wonky algorithms producing less than random outcomes? I am always suspicious of RNG in these games, as the developer/publisher has a horse in the race. If you ask me, the best system would be one where gear is mostly crafted, and the best gear would require rare materials from the hardest encounters. Still hard to get, but not left to chance or susceptible to interference from the developer.

WrathOfInnos

I’ve been doing pledges for the last 4 years. Still no Ilambris medium shoulder for me either, in any trait.

Doesn’t really matter though, I have a few heavy shoulders and medium helms that provide exactly the same stats.

kargen27

Seems I may have taken your share of good luck. Since this new system has been put in place I have wanted three different pieces. The first two I got exactly what I wanted on my 2nd try. My third one took five tries.

I've killed thousands upon thousands of ogres trying to get the toe ring though for an achievement and that still alludes me.

nafensoriel

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

Do you know that it's random to begin with? No skewed loot tables with duplicates of low-value weight/trait combinations to foster more grinding and function as an undaunted key sink? No wonky algorithms producing less than random outcomes? I am always suspicious of RNG in these games, as the developer/publisher has a horse in the race. If you ask me, the best system would be one where gear is mostly crafted, and the best gear would require rare materials from the hardest encounters. Still hard to get, but not left to chance or susceptible to interference from the developer.

/puts on tinfoil hat
Yes and that makes so much more sense than doing a simple % based RNG system that costs the least amount of resources to produce and operate.
/takes off tinfoil hat

Programmers are, by nature, lazy with the path to the end goal. It isn't because we are actually lazy... but because the lazy path is often the most efficient and least likely to cause catastrophic bugs we can't solve.

tmbrinks

nafensoriel wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

Do you know that it's random to begin with? No skewed loot tables with duplicates of low-value weight/trait combinations to foster more grinding and function as an undaunted key sink? No wonky algorithms producing less than random outcomes? I am always suspicious of RNG in these games, as the developer/publisher has a horse in the race. If you ask me, the best system would be one where gear is mostly crafted, and the best gear would require rare materials from the hardest encounters. Still hard to get, but not left to chance or susceptible to interference from the developer.

/puts on tinfoil hat
Yes and that makes so much more sense than doing a simple % based RNG system that costs the least amount of resources to produce and operate.
/takes off tinfoil hat

Programmers are, by nature, lazy with the path to the end goal. It isn't because we are actually lazy... but because the lazy path is often the most efficient and least likely to cause catastrophic bugs we can't solve.

Costco and/or Sam's Club (or whatever the equivalent is in other countries) must have tin-foil hats on special this month as there's been a plethora of conspiracy theories popping up lately

daemonios

nafensoriel wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

Do you know that it's random to begin with? No skewed loot tables with duplicates of low-value weight/trait combinations to foster more grinding and function as an undaunted key sink? No wonky algorithms producing less than random outcomes? I am always suspicious of RNG in these games, as the developer/publisher has a horse in the race. If you ask me, the best system would be one where gear is mostly crafted, and the best gear would require rare materials from the hardest encounters. Still hard to get, but not left to chance or susceptible to interference from the developer.

/puts on tinfoil hat
Yes and that makes so much more sense than doing a simple % based RNG system that costs the least amount of resources to produce and operate.
/takes off tinfoil hat

Programmers are, by nature, lazy with the path to the end goal. It isn't because we are actually lazy... but because the lazy path is often the most efficient and least likely to cause catastrophic bugs we can't solve.

As I said, there are several reasons why a developer would skew the RNG/loot tables. I agree with other posters that 18 is far too low a sample to draw conclusions. I just object to blindly assuming the RNG/loot tables are implemented in a way that all possible outcomes have an equal chance to drop.

On top of that, there's another issue. On a truly random basis, every time you flip a coin, you can get head or tails. There is a very low but non-zero chance that you will get all heads regardless of how many times you flip the coin. As a player, you want to eventually get the reward, so in fact you don't want a purely random outcome.

RNG is an imperfect solution and is opaque to the player, so can be tampered with by the developer. I don't like it as a game mechanic. No tin foil required.

FrancisCrawford

nafensoriel wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

Do you know that it's random to begin with? No skewed loot tables with duplicates of low-value weight/trait combinations to foster more grinding and function as an undaunted key sink? No wonky algorithms producing less than random outcomes? I am always suspicious of RNG in these games, as the developer/publisher has a horse in the race. If you ask me, the best system would be one where gear is mostly crafted, and the best gear would require rare materials from the hardest encounters. Still hard to get, but not left to chance or susceptible to interference from the developer.

/puts on tinfoil hat
Yes and that makes so much more sense than doing a simple % based RNG system that costs the least amount of resources to produce and operate.
/takes off tinfoil hat

Programmers are, by nature, lazy with the path to the end goal. It isn't because we are actually lazy... but because the lazy path is often the most efficient and least likely to cause catastrophic bugs we can't solve.

What costs least of all is a pseudo-random system not carefully checked for accidental bias.

But you're right that coding for deliberate bias would take work that has rather dubious payoff for ZoS.

Infixo

tmbrinks wrote: »

18 tries. 1/6th of a chance of a given type/weight means a 3.8% of getting none of one specific weight/type. Sorry for your bad luck, but nowhere near a statistically relevant sample size.

I like math too. So how about this: out of the 8 light Nerien items, 4 of them I got in a row. 4 fricking epaulets in a row. That's 0.07% chance. And out of those 4 heavy Ilambris - 3 are Infused - 0.17%. I played XCOM a lot, I know how true random looks like.

D0PAMINE

"Everything drops eventually" -RNGesus

ccfeeling

We could not buy the shoulder by different categories before

I spent 220 keys for a Medium Zaan

dazee

I thought the system got changed awhile back that saving enough keys could outright buy the piece you want?

Mr_Walker

nafensoriel wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

There's a number of instances where random is weighted, and therefore no longer random.

Uncracked Transmutation Geode, I'm looking squarely at you.

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

At 18 coffers, your subset of 'draws' from the total population of 'draws' is simply statistically insignificant. It's nothing more than sampling error.

While you may not like it, if you were to add up results of ALL the coffers of EVERY SINGLE player ever then you could actually draw a conclusion as to whether it's 'rigged' or not.

You sounded like you knew what you were talking about until the bolded.

LordGavus

The rng could be weighted or broken, or it could just be random.

The other day i was looking for a medium divines grundwolf shoulder and got it first go. Thats a 1 in 54 shot.

You think the chances of your drops are super unlikely but remember, if there are a million people playing the game then 1 in a million chance things will happen all the time.

Dusk_Coven

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

Before the change that's how many keys people sometimes spent, except they got a wider range of drops in the process.
Either way it makes more sense to just wait for it to show up at the Golden and save your keys since ZOS has set the precedent that they can be event currency.

GalexPK

Looks like someone has not prayed to the Divines recently!

tmbrinks

Infixo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

18 tries. 1/6th of a chance of a given type/weight means a 3.8% of getting none of one specific weight/type. Sorry for your bad luck, but nowhere near a statistically relevant sample size.

I like math too. So how about this: out of the 8 light Nerien items, 4 of them I got in a row. 4 fricking epaulets in a row. That's 0.07% chance. And out of those 4 heavy Ilambris - 3 are Infused - 0.17%. I played XCOM a lot, I know how true random looks like.

Yes the chance of getting specifically 4 Nerieneth Epaulets in a row is 0.07%. However the chance of getting 4 of the same item in a row is 0.4%... so... 1 in 250. Considering how many people have opened coffers in this game, do you think it's odd that it's happened? I'm guessing a lot more than 250 people have opened more than 4 coffers in a row

My point from above still stands. 18 is a tiny sample size. Not enough to draw the sweeping conclusions that you're making.

Humans, in general, are absolutely TERRIBLE at knowing "true random". If you ask a person to write out a 100 coin flip sequence, almost nobody will write 4 heads or 4 tails in a row, because it doesn't "look random" to them.. but the odds of that happening are something like 95% in 100 tosses of a coin.

(I also have no clue what the XCOM reference is about... I only played the "Enemy Unknown" and "Terror From the Deep" versions... the randomness in both of those seemed iffy, to say the least, granted they are almost 25 years old now)

tmbrinks

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Infixo wrote: »

18 coffers. Nerien: 8 light, 2 heavy, 2 medium, Ilambris: 4 heavy, 2 light. No medium.
This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.
And this is not the first time that sets that are more popular are harder to get. I have tens of useless shoulders. Rigged RNG, shame on you ZOS.

Before the change that's how many keys people sometimes spent, except they got a wider range of drops in the process.
Either way it makes more sense to just wait for it to show up at the Golden and save your keys since ZOS has set the precedent that they can be event currency.

Yup... I was pushing over 400 keys before I finally got my medium divines grothdarr (this was even before transmutation existed)

gatekeeper13

I ve spent more than 200 keys in total to get Valkyn Skoria Arm Cops and still hasnt drop. I only get Heavy or Light, no matter if I spend my keys on random coffers or dungeon specific coffers.

I ve done Suspire more than 60 times and the False God Inferno staff never dropped for me. (drop rate was like 1/5 runs and always for someone else). The 1 I got was from someone else who was kind enough to give it to me. Never managed to get a second one.

On the other hand, I got 4 Burning Spellweave Inferno staves, although I know people who have done the dungeon 200+ times and never got one.

And it has been times where I got the same set from coffers 5-6 times in a row.

Yeah, I agree that this RNG is disgusting and designed to have people playing ESO 24/7.

e.g CoA. 14 drops, 8 Sunderflame, 6 Embershield, 0 BSW armor. How is this "random"?

Carespanker

zos is saving you from yourself, Ilambris is bad. Just be glad we aren't living in 2015 pre-transmutation too lol.

LordGavus

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

e.g CoA. 14 drops, 8 Sunderflame, 6 Embershield, 0 BSW armor. How is this "random"?

But that is random. A low chance of happening, sure. But its random.

Random doesnt mean evenly spread out or fair. And the previous drop has no bearing on the next. Randomness is clumpy.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I used up all my rng for a million years, random group finder, vet. I never go vet, Scalecaller pops “crap, ah well, I never done a vet DLC and I want the hat”. Accept. Port to second last boss, beat him and Zaan. Get heavy divines Zaan head, no need to ask other team members.

Keep it up zos!

Edit: this occurred last night

Eliahnus

nafensoriel wrote: »

You want them to fix RANDOM by making it less random?

It's not random by any means, it's pseudo-random, meaning the implementation tries to simulate randomness, but obviously it has it's flaws, as in most other games.

It baffles me when people actually do think that luck/unluck in a software program is really random.

TheShadowScout

Infixo wrote: »

This is NOT funny. This is NOT motivating to play this game.

...so they really should stop leaving it to the gods of the die roll for BoP sets, and switch the whole thing over to a full "get exactly what you need" token system!!!

I mean, the "random stuff" is neat for BoE gear, since that only feeds the player economy, but for BoP, no matter if undaunted or the exact dungeon-drop weapon type you need to complete your set... eeeehhh.

Olauron

tmbrinks wrote: »

18 tries. <snip> Sorry for your bad luck, but nowhere near a statistically relevant sample size.

The thing is player is not expected to make a statistically relevant number of draws in this case. That is not a case when one player will make thousands or tens of thousands draws. Using RNG outside of cases with statistically relevant number of draws for one player is bad game design.