OK, ZOS, you win...

JanTanhide

It's a good business model. You get the Craft bag plus Crowns plus 10% XP Bonus and more. Heck, it' about the cost of a pack of smokes and a couple of cans of soda.

The employees don't work for free. For a business to succeed it has to have an income each month and ESO Plus is a great way to do this.

Aendruu

Darkenarlol wrote: »

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...
maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems
than to play games and complain on forums?

no offence, just some logic

No offence taken, as this is true enough. I'm unemployed in a country that has one of the highest unemployment rates on the globe, and has a tanking economy which makes the currency exchange rate really rough, and so RL is pretty unpleasant. In which case, perhaps I shouldn't be spending money on a game, but playing does keep me relatively sane.

Regardless, I really do appreciate that ZOS is a business and my post here wasn't intended to be a whine about being exploited.

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think your problem is that you think F2P mode is anything other than a trial mode.
I’m actual more annoyed that ZoS offers a subscription service in a B2P game [...]

This is precisely my point: I'd be happy to subscribe to ESO as I think it's a fantastic game; I just would have preferred an FTP trial run initially, rather than BTP model with added subscription incentive. I mean, just having access to the chapters and DLC instead of buying them piecemeal would make subscribing extremely worthwhile, and if I'm fortunate enough to find employment, I certainly shall. Hence my statement that ZOS has won!

Thanks to all for your insightful replies (although I'm now very curious about the posts ZOS_TrishM removed for bashing!)

Banana

Time to get a job. Students

Aendruu

Banana wrote: »

Time to get a job. Students

On the contrary, I'm middle-aged, Caucasian and male... not a particularly popular demographic in the job market in South Africa, I'm afraid, and hardly a student.

Nordic__Knights

I hold 8 eso+ subs every month 6 for myself and 2 for my kids have so for last 3 years and 1 since release( main account) and at one time i refused to get it lasted 38 days before i got sick of not having time to do anything other then move things around in banks and home storage so yes ESO+ is an MUST HAVE to play anything within the game if you want to stay self-sufficient while playing it

Mayrael

As long as such utility things are connected to subscription I don't care. I paid subscription when game was P2P, nothing has changed for me... Maybe except I like P2P model more because usually it filters a lot of toxic players (aka below certain age line) but fortunately we have ignore list

FierceSam

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

If only the game wouldn't be that broken, so the sub would be worth it not only for the crafting bag.

+ for this.

I am happy to pay for a sub for a game I really enjoy, which is way, way less than having a drink every day I play. I think it’s great value for my money.

I do, however, expect that a chunk of that money goes to maintain and improve the service of the game. Right now and over the last year it feels like more time and effort has gone into pointless promo videos than into stabilising and improving performance.

I hope the next update provides a genuine improvement in game performance.

FierceSam

Rhypon wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...
maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems
than to play games and complain on forums?

no offence, just some logic

No offence taken, as this is true enough. I'm unemployed in a country that has one of the highest unemployment rates on the globe, and has a tanking economy which makes the currency exchange rate really rough, and so RL is pretty unpleasant. In which case, perhaps I shouldn't be spending money on a game, but playing does keep me relatively sane.

Regardless, I really do appreciate that ZOS is a business and my post here wasn't intended to be a whine about being exploited.

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think your problem is that you think F2P mode is anything other than a trial mode.
I’m actual more annoyed that ZoS offers a subscription service in a B2P game [...]

This is precisely my point: I'd be happy to subscribe to ESO as I think it's a fantastic game; I just would have preferred an FTP trial run initially, rather than BTP model with added subscription incentive. I mean, just having access to the chapters and DLC instead of buying them piecemeal would make subscribing extremely worthwhile, and if I'm fortunate enough to find employment, I certainly shall. Hence my statement that ZOS has won!

Thanks to all for your insightful replies (although I'm now very curious about the posts ZOS_TrishM removed for bashing!)

Welcome to Britain. LOL

ZOS does occasionally run FTP periods where people can try out the game, but it is a BTP game (although not a PTW one). I’m happy to pay because I think it’s an excellent game.

Good luck getting that job and have fun.

WhisperLFE

I personally find ESO and LOTRO to be two of the more playable "free" games out there. And, also for me, ESO+ is worth the cost. I have no qualms with a company making some quality-of-life improvements paywall-locked, and I feel ESO has done a good job of that while avoiding being P2W.

SWTOR is definitely a much different game without a subscription. I still enjoy it, and I'll spring for a sub when I feel like playing, but I'm not nearly as likely to play it without one.

Na0cho

Rhypon wrote: »

As a relatively new player of MMOs, I found it strange that even after paying for this game I always felt I was playing the same FTP experience that I encountered in LOTRO and SWTOR. So out of curiosity I took a month's subscription, and discovered the delights of the craft bag and inventory/bank extensions etc... and now I'm playing a completely different (and altogether more enjoyable) game! So after months of juggling crafting characters, bank mules and spending every last gold piece I earned on bank and inventory size upgrades, I have to concede that ZOS has won.

It's an very extremely dirty trick, ZOS, but I'm sure you're happy that it succeeds... presumably very often. However, please bear in mind that we, the players, are not an inexhaustible resource, and no matter how much I'm enjoying the ESO+ experience, it's not one that I can afford on a monthly basis and will therefore not be repeated. I can only assume that I'm not alone in this sentiment.

Hey there! So if you didn’t know, even if you unsub, the items stay in your bag until you use them. So even if you could only sub say every other month you wouldn’t lose any of your materials and you could just stockpile new materials until you could sub again and it will just suck all your new mats in next time you do.

You do also get free crowns for subbing which you can use to buy storage for your house (you can get a free room in the inn of your factions starting zone or buy a relatively cheap one for in game gold or crowns) or content that you would like to keep when unsubbed.

So I’m many ways you can kind of “play the system”

I’ve used my sub crowns over time to pretty much buy all the content In game and if I decide to unsub for a bit I just lay off the harvesting for the duration.

rpa

I have no problem paying for a sub in a sub game. Problem is ESO does not perform like a sub game, even with ESO+. Yes, you get a morsel of crowns to use for gamble grates and pay2not_play/wait, craft bag and some more bank/chest/housing space and access to some DLC. But a sub game is expected to be playable.

I'll wait until ZoS successfully finishes the performance fixes and then get ESO+ if I still have any interest left to play.

Sephyr

rpa wrote: »

I have no problem paying for a sub in a sub game. Problem is ESO does not perform like a sub game, even with ESO+. Yes, you get a morsel of crowns to use for gamble grates and pay2not_play/wait, craft bag and some more bank/chest/housing space and access to some DLC. But a sub game is expected to be playable.

I'll wait until ZoS successfully finishes the performance fixes and then get ESO+ if I still have any interest left to play.

This ENTIRELY. While I still have interest to play, it's because I have friends here. If the performance fixes work for longer than a week? Awesome. I'll consider subbing after 3-5 months of live server testing because we all know how much gets past QA and PTS. Until then? I'd rather sub to other games more deserving of my wallet.

nejcn001

On craft bag:
Storage chests?
i got 3 of them (1x 30, 2x 60) and im currently not needing more.
I got tank, DD and PVP spec covered.

Aendruu

FierceSam wrote: »

Welcome to Britain. LOL

[...] I’m happy to pay because I think it’s an excellent game.

Good luck getting that job and have fun.

Well, we were your colony once upon a time, so I guess we learned from the professionals! Thanks very much for your encouragement, and yes... I've enjoyed the Elder Scrolls for some time, so naturally I'm having tremendous fun with the online game. I also think that it's excellent!

Na0cho wrote: »

Hey there! So if you didn’t know, even if you unsub, the items stay in your bag until you use them. So even if you could only sub say every other month you wouldn’t lose any of your materials and you could just stockpile new materials until you could sub again and it will just suck all your new mats in next time you do.

Thanks very much! I didn't know this at all. /blowkiss
I feel a new game plan developing...

TheFM

Tandor wrote: »

The game has to paid for beyond the initial purchase price which is commonly discounted heavily these days anyway. As such there's nothing wrong with incentivising players to subscribe on a regular basis as it provides certainty of revenue compared with occasional Crown Store purchases or playing for free.

If you do make Crown Store purchases then it's generally better to subscribe anyway as the cost of the subscription is covered by the free Crowns that come with it, and there's less to buy anyway as DLCs are also included. Of course I do understand that not everyone can afford regular payments for a game and for them the best option may be occasional Crown Store purchases funded by Crowns bought when they're on sale. I don't think casual spenders can expect the same benefits as regular subscribers, but while many F2P/B2P games fall well into the P2W trap this is something that ZOS have been pretty successful in avoiding in my view. I do wish they hadn't put skill points in the Crown Store but that's a different argument altogether.

It would be fine if they would actually use the millions the earn to fix the performance instead of whatever they use it for.

mikemacon

Nah. ESO+ is very much worth it for me.

It's a B2P game where the sub is entirely optional, and many people just go that route and buy the DLC individually when it is added to the Crown Store.

For me, the craft bag, extra housing slots, etc., are worth the price of the entirely optional sub - so much so that i pay for it three times over (once for xbox, one for pc, and one for my son, also on xbox).

As for Warframe - also a great game. But also an entirely different game. And to be fair, though I also play Warframe, I play ESO a lot more.

YMMV.

Anotherone773

Rhypon wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Time to get a job. Students

On the contrary, I'm middle-aged, Caucasian and male... not a particularly popular demographic in the job market in South Africa, I'm afraid, and hardly a student.

These days that is not a popular demographic anywhere.

Rhypon wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...
maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems
than to play games and complain on forums?

no offence, just some logic

No offence taken, as this is true enough. I'm unemployed in a country that has one of the highest unemployment rates on the globe, and has a tanking economy which makes the currency exchange rate really rough, and so RL is pretty unpleasant. In which case, perhaps I shouldn't be spending money on a game, but playing does keep me relatively sane.

Regardless, I really do appreciate that ZOS is a business and my post here wasn't intended to be a whine about being exploited.

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think your problem is that you think F2P mode is anything other than a trial mode.
I’m actual more annoyed that ZoS offers a subscription service in a B2P game [...]

This is precisely my point: I'd be happy to subscribe to ESO as I think it's a fantastic game; I just would have preferred an FTP trial run initially, rather than BTP model with added subscription incentive. I mean, just having access to the chapters and DLC instead of buying them piecemeal would make subscribing extremely worthwhile, and if I'm fortunate enough to find employment, I certainly shall. Hence my statement that ZOS has won!

Thanks to all for your insightful replies (although I'm now very curious about the posts ZOS_TrishM removed for bashing!)

I really think ESO should follow Eve Online lead with the sub/ MT model. Basically, in Eve you can buy premium currency which can be directly sold on the market to players in exchange for in game currency. Then the "free" player can use the premium currency they just bought to pay for a sub.

People like me who can afford to spend $100 plus a month on gaming but doesnt have the hours to grind in game currency can instead buy it. While people, like you( assuming), who have time time to grind in game currency but cant afford a sub can "earn" it. I win because you farm my gold for me. You win because i buy your sub.The company wins because they are still getting money from your sub, its just coming from me and not you. Plus you are more likely to stay when you are a "have" instead of a " have not" so players are retained longer.

While they have sort of a system like this now, it is very poorly done and doesnt cover sub perks. Since we get 1650 crowns and perks for the system would have to be reworked. And they would have make a crown voucher that can be sold on traders as that greatly cuts down the ability to scam people and is also far more convenient.

Then your ability to get perks like the craft bag would be completely dependent on your ability to make gold in game.